The NES Classic is a $60 Single Board Computer Running Linux

"Nintendo's accurate NES emulator apparently needs no less than a quad-core CPU," joked Ars Technica. "The next step, of course, is unscrewing of the nostalgic little box to see how it ticks -- and whether its limited functionality might ever be expanded, either officially or by hackers." Slashdot reader romiz summarizes what's inside Nintendo's new miniature emulator for classic games: With a quad-core ARM Cortex-A7, 256 MB of RAM, and 512 MB of NAND Flash, it is typical of the hardware found in Linux single board computers, like the Raspberry Pi 2. Surprisingly for Nintendo, there does not seem to be any custom components in it, and it looks like it even does run Linux. [YouTube video] The GPL license for the kernel and many other open source components is visible in the legal information screen. The source, however, is not yet available on Nintendo's open source page.

But it is the re-edition a 1980s video console: there is no network access, no hardware expansion port, and the 30 games cannot be changed. Changing the system running on it will probably be difficult.

Comments

Emulator

[Dwedit]

Apparently, it's not even a good emulator.

Re:Emulator

[cfalcon]

. No Guardian Legend. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

Re:Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

The 5-pixel glitch in SMB3's status bar is off? My GOD!

Re:Emulator

[negRo_slim]

I'd say the failed sound reproduction is the bigger issue.

Re:Emulator

[SaDJ0KeR]

. No Guardian Legend. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

Thank you for that. Guardian Legend is a Legend and one of the best NES games imo.

Re:Emulator

[Calydor]

We didn't get that back in the day, why should people get it now?!

Re:Emulator

[Dwedit]

The emulators on the Wii come close. Turn on Wii, bootMii goes to Homebrew Channel automatically, pick NES emulator, pick game, run.
You could even use SNES controllers if you have a SNES Gamecube adapter.

Re:Emulator

[tepples]

Nintendo's in-house emulator may not be up to bsnes accuracy

"If it's not bsnes, it's just bs" aside, rumors on the Internets say it isn't even up to FCEUX accuracy. I'd hope it's at least more accurate than NESticle X, the last NESticle release before people started switching to LoopyNES.

Re:Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

No TGL ever, since IREM was the North American release publisher.

IREM got all pissy about the Virtual Console back in 2011 and pulled all of their games like a bunch of money-hating idiots.

That's not to say Nintendo couldn't have their lawyers lean on the publishing contract for the original until it begged for mercy and allowed Sega (owner of Compile's assets) to sign up a new publisher for new platforms. It's just unlikely.

Re:Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

You've never seen RetroPi, then.

Seriously, try it sometime. It runs 8- and 16-bit era emulators with a game-picker front-end, from any RPi. RPi 3's can run 32/64-bit era games now, too.

I'm currently in the process of hollowing out an old, broken NES and mounting an RPi B+ (spare from a while back) in it, and using a couple of other (also spare) dev boards for power control and controller-to-USB emulation to make a NES that plays everything, but with real NES controllers that still work as they always did. (Also, I always liked the NES Max controller, which is never duplicated as a modern-input controller. Ditto for the AsciiPad for my SNES.)

Re:Emulator

[cfalcon]

I honestly have no idea who even has the rights to TGL these days- is it really IREM? I know that they don't shit on fans much though, because people keep trying to remake it. I know it wasn't the most popular game in the sense that it doesn't have a huge pop culture following, but seriously, we could definitely use more Miria. What a badass game that was, and holy moly the music was amazing.

Re:Emulator

[cfalcon]

> We didn't get that back in the day,
What? That was how it worked, you turned on the NES, pressed start, and started playing. No logging in, no update begging, no whining about a hard drive install, none of that shit. If it didn't work, you blew in the cartridge and tried again (and YES, you blew in the cartridge, whether or not it did shit). Then you were playing. It was a vastly superior user experience versus today.

Re:Emulator

[Calydor]

It was the cartridge blowing I was referring to as tongue-in-cheek humor.

Re:Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

Your mistake seems to be trying to play these games the "legal" way. As always, that is a recipe for constant annoyance and pain.

These days it's "double click .nes file, press start, and start playing".

Re:Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

Compile was the original developer, and Sega bought most of their assets (Puyo Puyo in particular). The publisher was different for each release. Japan's was IREM, North America's was Broderbund, and Europe's was Nintendo.

That means it's the Broderbund rights that need to be broken loose, rather than the IREM rights. Broderbund was purchased by The Learning Company, which is part of Houghton Mifflin Harcourt publishing, which has been an orgy of private equity for two decades now. Nintendo's just not going to bother trying to wrest control of TGL's publishing rights away from that mess, and HMH/TLC/Broderbund probably doesn't even know that they ever had the rights to publish it.

Re:Emulator

[Falos]

No load screens, no ads, no load screens, no dashboard, no load screens, no phoning home, no load screens, no "recommendations and promoted offers"

You get the urge to stomp a goomba, and you could have one under your shoes in twenty seconds. Now you have to make an appointment and sit in a waiting room.

It's a metaphorical waiting room, not a literal one, for those of you who can't keep up.

Re:Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

It might not matter for everyone but it shows that they haven't bothered with getting the emulator accurate witch is a bit disappointing considering that they should know better than anyone how the hardware works.
What people were expecting from Nintendo was an ASIC implementation of the NES that would be 100% accurate and be preferable to emulators.
Instead they release an emulator that is worse than other emulators out there.
You get a better NES if you buy a Raspberry Pi and install another emulator on it.

If you care about the legal part and think that it is reasonable to enforce copyright on 35 year old games and want to support a company that pushes out a product that is worse than what is available from hobbyists for free then you can always get the official mini NES from Nintendo and dump the games if you don't already have the cartridges.

Re: Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

Who did expect that?
This is pretty much what i expected from the begining

Re: Emulator

[KozmoStevnNaut]

Yeah, a single-board ARM computer running Linux is pretty much the go-to solution these days for low cost and versatility. With software written specifically for it, rather than an emulator, it could easily play Gamecube or Wii games in HD. Going a little bit higher up the scale, an Nvidia Tegra K1 system will just about match an Xbox 360 or a PS4 in graphics capability, and costs very little.

Literally the only people who expected an actual new NES based on dedicated hardware are delusional neckbearded shut-ins.

Re:Emulator

[KozmoStevnNaut]

Don't listen to Internet rumors. It's fine, only the shut-in grognards are complaining.

Nintendo didn't set out to build the most accurate modern NES they could. They set out to build a reasonably-priced device that is easy and straightforward to use, hits the nostalgia buttons with its overall design, and can be plugged in to a modern TV and Just Work®.

Re:Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

What exactly is broken about it? Maybe it could be fixed instead of being used as an oversize container for RPi.

Re: Emulator

[KozmoStevnNaut]

*PS3, not PS4.

Re:Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering that the sound emulation in an official Nintendo product is easily bested by 10 to 15-year-old emulators written by high schoolers and college students, it's pretty shameful, especially considering that the NES Classic Edition isn't even free. ;)

Re:Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

That's funny, because whenever a cartridge failed to play, it was usually because it was failing to connect properly to the lock-out chip. It would be most peoples' first run-in with DRM annoying legitimate customers, while doing little to stop 'pirates.'

Re: Emulator

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, do you work for Nintendo or something? You are all up and down this thread complaining about "neckbeards" expecting Nintendo to release a quality product. The emulators written for free have better fucking quality. And why do you keep calling people neckbeards? Are you jealous of their knowledge on the subject? The fact that you will scoop up and buy whatever crap comes out, your mad at them for expecting quality? You sound like the fucking Nintendo PR machine. If you don't like neckbeards or geeks who over analyze tech, then GTFO, this isn't the place for you. Besides your username doesn't look familiar at all. Fucking noob.

Re: Emulator

[KozmoStevnNaut]

Haha wow, I really hit you like a perfectly weighted and broken-in genuine Sanwa button ;-)

My point is that this is not a product aimed at the neckbeard grognards who overanalyze every little detail of everything. It's aimed at people who want to relive the NES days easily and with a nice GUI, easy to use savestates, all of that stuff. They don't want to mess around with a Raspberry Pi like the rest of us, they just want to plug and play. Apparently a lot of sadsacks can't accept that normal people don't care about 100% accurate emulation.

And my username "doesn't look familiar"? Fuck right off, who made you the arbiter of who gets to post here and who doesn't? I've been on here longer than you have, kid. Guaranteed.

FPGA

[0100010001010011]

If ever there was a product that should have been an FPGA this was it. People have already reverse engineered a large part of the NES and implemented it: https://danstrother.com/fpga-n...

Nintendo also has the advantage of knowing what they put in the original NES.

Re:FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

FPGAs are generally much more expensive verses the $10 in parts Nintendo spent to produce NES Classic.

Re:FPGA

[Lisandro]

Um, why? Not only this was quite possibly much easier to implement on a Linux mini PC, it was also way cheaper.

Re:FPGA

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

That would have been a more elegant solution; but why would Nintendo use a ~$70 FPGA to do something they can get a bottom-feeder ARM SoC to do; with the added advantage of being able to share the emulator software with any of their other products that are adequately powerful?

If cost-per-unit were the binding constraint, Nintendo would presumably be best served by building their own, hopefully less eccentric, version of the NES-on-a-chip hardware that you find under a glob top in the assorted 'famiclone' consoles of the world; but doing that would both make doing the design relatively expensive; and be useless for any of their products that don't have the resulting hardware embedded.

Emulation is kind of an ugly, brute force, approach; but it gives Nintendo the flexibility to add 'NES' to just about anything powerful enough just by providing a copy of the software.

Re:FPGA

[0100010001010011]

1) It brings nothing new to the table that RetroPi doesn't already have.
2) Software emulation isn't perfect.

Re:FPGA

[Fwipp]

Except, you know, not having to read a bunch of manuals learning how to install Linux on it, the custom hardware and aesthetic, and also it's y'know, legal.

Both my grandmothers used to play a lot of NES. I could see either of them buying this to replay some of their favorite games - I can't fathom them trying to set up a Pi.

Re:FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

"versus", not "verses". Verses are in poetry. PROTIP: Use "vs" from now on.

Re: FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

Legal, haha. Go fuck yourself.

Re:FPGA

[tk77]

So, one of these:

http://www.retrousb.com/produc...

3x the price of the Classic and you have to supply the controllers and games.

I'm considering buying both..

Re: FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't spend 200 bucks on something that's on a website that badly designed.

Re: FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

I love the vs in this poem.

Re: FPGA

[tepples]

What's so "badly designed" about retrousb.com, other than merely being out of fashion?

Re:FPGA

[cfalcon]

Emulators are fully legal.

Re: FPGA

[cfalcon]

That's a pretty perfect website, what's the issue? Does it not have enough tracking and javascript? You can always just handwrite your browsing habits on a postcard and mail it to google if you feel insecure.

Re:FPGA

[Lisandro]

Neither is FPGA simulation. There is nothing a FPGA brings to the table, simulation-wise, that cannot be implemented with plain old software.

Re:FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

Fixed timing is usually way beyond what a software emulator can manage. Generally you run on a greatly overpowerd processor and wait the best you can.

Re:FPGA

[tepples]

Downloading ROM images from the Internet is copyright infringement in most notable* cases. Even if you own the cartridge, cartridge readers are illegal under anti-circumvention statutes in some countries.

* Freeware NES games made by hobbyists exist, but few if any been reviewed by multiple reliable sources.

Re:FPGA

[Lisandro]

Hardly a concern with the NES and its 2 Mhz system clock though.

Re:FPGA

[PRMan]

Costs too much. I just got a Raspberry Pi Zero (the equivalent hardware) for 99 cents.

Re: FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be "vss", not "vs".

"vs" = versus, like in a fight
"vss" = verses, like in a poem or scripture

English is weird, but this particular bit of syntax is very well established and has been for centuries. Lrn2Englsh, noob.

Re:FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

Cartridge readers are not illegal under anti-circumvention statutes because cartridge readers aren't circumventing anything.

10NES is a hardware lockout, not a software one. No copy control systems are being circumvented by a cart reader. The 10NES handshake doesn't even have to occur in order for the cart to be readable. 10NES is used by the NES unit to prevent unauthorized software from executing, not by the cartridge to prevent unauthorized hardware from reading it.

Unauthorized hardware reading the software was a problem nobody cared about back then because 1) the hardware was patented so clone makers could be sued into oblivion, 2) manufacturing costs made copying cartridges difficult, and 3) Nintendo was already getting their cut from licensing and they were enforcing scarcity of copies anyway, so piracy wasn't costing anyone anything even if it did exist, while fighting piracy was all cost and no reward.

And Tengen won their 10NES bypass case, too. So there's precedent.

Re: FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

You probably won't even spend 3Â for the toilet paper to wipe your own ass, so why do you matter?

Just FOAD already.

Thanks for playing.

Re:FPGA

[tepples]

Tengen lost in the Federal Circuit (Atari Games v. Nintendo) because it defrauded the Copyright Office to get the 10NES source code. But Nintendo lost the other lockout-related lawsuits. And had Tengen not defrauded the Copyright Office, it probably would have won, per the reasoning of the subsequent (and post-DMCA) Lexmark v. Static Control Components.

Laws in other countries may vary.

Re:FPGA

[squiggleslash]

I thought the 10NES issue was Nintendo trying to (ab)use copyright to prevent unauthorized third parties from releasing their own games for the NES, not copyright being used to prevent people from copying games?

Re:FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

Not even nintendo gives a flying fuck about people downloading ROMs of 20+ year old games. Their legal dept would pretend otherwise of course.

Re:FPGA

[tomxor]

I was speculative that FPGA implementation could not be done cheaply, as they come in a range or capabilities and costs... So I thought I'd have a look at what HDL source is available and what would be required to run them... without much googling you will find many people have already done this, this was the simplest i could find in terms of hardware (although not accurate or complete) https://danstrother.com/fpga-n...

It is difficult to gauge from these projects what a production cost would be, as they are all using development boards obviously and not necessarily choosing the smallest chip for the job, even so if you take the board from that project and search for the FPGA chip unit price it's less than half that of their board, ~£28, it would be interesting to know from someone experienced in this level of hardware how low the cost could be driven down by selecting an appropriate size FPGA based on the HDL and low frequencies those chips ran on the NES.

Re:FPGA

[newsdee]

~£28, it would be interesting to know from someone experienced in this level of hardware how low the cost could be driven down by selecting an appropriate size FPGA based on the HDL and low frequencies those chips ran on the NES.

Check out the MIST FPGA https://github.com/mist-devel/... and Zx-Uno http://zxuno.speccy.org/index_... projects.

Both have an open-source NES core supporting many games (forks of the same original project). They are more expensive than the NES mini, the ZxUno at 70 euros (without case nor VGA adapter), and the MiST at 200 euros with a case [but bigger FPGA = supports more systems such as Atari and Amiga]. There are a couple of gotchas though: neither connects to carts (they could in theory, but the focus was to make them generic so they use SD cards), and more importantly neither has HDMI. That isn't a huge problem but you could expect a slightly higher price to add the necessary parts.

TL;DR the solutions exist, price could be made comparable but probably they can't be bothered to find a hardware guru to do it.

Re: FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to miss a play on words. Lrn2Joke, noob.

Re:FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

That would have been a more elegant solution; but why would Nintendo use a ~$70 FPGA to do something they can get a bottom-feeder ARM SoC to do; with the added advantage of being able to share the emulator software with any of their other products that are adequately powerful?

The FPGA used in RetroUSB AVS is a XC6SLX9. It costs around 15€. FPGA's capable of emulating 8bit or 16bit era machines aren't that expensive. Driving HDMI is actually a bit more challenging, but you could drive a 720p hdmi signal out of the serializes on them.

For reference:
Hamsterworks Spartan-6 1080p

Alternatively you can just a HDMI Transmitter.

But it would be more expensive than a low-end Chinese ARM chip.

Re:FPGA

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=36&products_id=78&osCsid=eb73359d3a2ac2c8d24e2ddbfce9892f

GPL Requirement

[Anonymous Coward]

Responding to the summary, the GPL doesn't require that Nintendo distribute any source code on their website. The GPL simply requires that the source code be made available upon request. This can even be done for a fee, provided that the purpose of the fee is used to pay for the cost of the medium and postage. The GPL isn't particularly strict on exactly how the source code has to be available, just that it has to be available upon request without unreasonable fees.

Re:GPL Requirement

[Anonymous Coward]

Except today the fee thing is bollocks since you can just put up a server to distribute it.

So they're currently violating the GPL?

[NotInfinitumLabs]

If they haven't yet posted the source for linux, then they're violating the license.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not until someone requests the source code.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not until someone *who owns one of these* requests the source code.

Fixed that for you.

Re:So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Calydor]

Honest question here, is it really accurate to put the period inside the quotation when what you're quoting isn't supposed to contain a period?

Re:So they're currently violating the GPL?

[mysidia]

Since you dont know how it works, then surely you being a bright intelligent person knew that you didnt.... which begs the question....

No.... That IS exactly how this works. If they are distributing binary copies of open source software then they MUST provide the source code for the components shipping in the product at the same time, by choosing and implementing one of the GPL's provided options for source code distribution.

There are a few different ways that they can accomplish it, But there's no provision in the GPL that authorizes a delay between distributing the binary GPL-covered program and offering its source code.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[mysidia]

Not until someone *who owns one of these* requests the source code.

FALSE IF they don't utilize option (A) by accompanying the program with its source on the same distribution media as with the original program, and they they thus choose (B), then they must:

b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

Note that the GPL requirement is a valid offer made to ANY THIRD PARTY, not just the person you originally distributed the program to.

And Option (C) the GPL says is allowed Only for Non-commercial redistribution of non-modified executable code you received, and says you can redistribute the GPL'd Binaries you receive to someone else sent you and just pass on the the Offer for source code you received from someone else.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[mysidia]

The GPL has no clause that says the requirement to distribute source doesn't kick in until someone asks for the source code.

Re:So they're currently violating the GPL?

[tepples]

In British English, it's common practice to put the full stop outside quotation marks when the full stop isn't quoted. Even in American English, technical writing tends to follow the same practice.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's knew, not new. Surely, you yourself being a brite intelligent person, knew this...

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

"knew this", not "new this". Surely you, being a member of the grammar police, knew this.

Re:So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Falos]

I don't program, but the only sane way to designate a lifted string is to explicitly nest it. All of it. Reproduce verbatim, including the communicated effects of punctuation. Then go back out a level as if you never left. Punctuate the parent thought as appropriate, it has no regard to the nested thought's punctuation, and vice-versa.

For more format whining, tune in to my YYYYMMDD "self-organizing" rant.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The original coders of linux are all dead or retired anyway."

Why is there not a "you're a fscking idiot" mod?

We need a banhammer.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

Knuth once commented in an article somewhere about TeX that it appeared ugly and incorrect to do so, but that it was correct.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

They must distribute, or offer to distribute, the source to anybody they distribute the binaries to. Nobody else is entitled.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[swillden]

The GPL has no clause that says the requirement to distribute source doesn't kick in until someone asks for the source code.

Yes, it does. Specifically, one of the options for source distribution is:

Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code

So if they offer to provide source to anyone who requests it, they're in compliance. They can even charge a fee, and they only have to provide source for three years -- that's probably three years from the last time they sell a device, I think. It's not clear to me that Nintendo has made such an offer, though.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

Note that the GPL requirement is a valid offer made to ANY THIRD PARTY, not just the person you originally distributed the program to.

And Option (C) the GPL says is allowed Only for Non-commercial redistribution of non-modified executable code you received, and says you can redistribute the GPL'd Binaries you receive to someone else sent you and just pass on the the Offer for source code you received from someone else.

The offer is to the owner of the product and must be transferrable to a third party. I'm not sure if this is meant to cover resale or if it is meant to cover the hiring of a third party to make modifications or do maintenance for the owner or give the product owner the option to publish the source themsevlves. Maybe it's all of these. But the way it's worded does not look to me like it means they have to make a general offer to themselves provide the source to (fourth?) parties who are neither owners of the product nor their agents.

Re:So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.en.html

It's right there in section 3. Are you completely blind?

They have made no changes to the source code of the original OS being used.
The following from the GPL comes into play:

3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:

a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)

The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it. For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable. However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable.

If distribution of executable or object code is made by offering access to copy from a designated place, then offering equivalent access to copy the source code from the same place counts as distribution of the source code, even though third parties are not compelled to copy the source along with the object code.

They provide the very link required above on their OSS website.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

"ksuck this", not "suck this". . . I'll be here all night(knight):)}

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[mysidia]

Yes, it does. Specifically, one of the options for source distribution is:

False. This option requires including upfront documentation on how to get the source code, in the form of a written offer (which is open to anyone to exercise).

They can even charge a fee, and they only have to provide source for three years

False and False. They are only allowed to receive compensation for exactly their reasonable costs in physically conveying the source code, or $0 for source code distributed over the network (That's the important part); the GPL does not allow them to make an arbitrary charge for providing the source.

Furthemore, It's the latter of 3 Years from the date that binary/object code was distributed, AND The last date customer support or spare parts were available for the product:

b) Convey the object code in, or embodied in, a physical product (including a physical distribution medium), accompanied by a written offer, valid for at least three years and valid for as long as you offer spare parts or customer support for that product model, to give anyone who possesses the object code either (1) a copy of the Corresponding Source for all the software in the product that is covered by this License, on a durable physical medium customarily used for software interchange, for a price no more than your reasonable cost of physically performing this conveying of source, or (2) access to copy the Corresponding Source from a network server at no charge.

Re:So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Rockoon]

If they are distributing binary copies of open source software then they MUST provide the source code for the components shipping in the product at the same time

The GPL says nothing about "at the same time" you ignorant cultist twat.

Re: So they're currently violating the GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL. The Linux kernel isnt project Manhattan for Christ sakes.

Re:So they're currently violating the GPL?

[mysidia]

The GPL says nothing about "at the same time" you ignorant cultist twat.

Go back to school, you newbie 7-digit Slashdot-UID-holder.

See GPL (6) All allowed options of distribution require the source code or explicit offer for source code be conveyed simultaneously. There is no permissible delay between providing the code and offering the source allowed by the GPL, period.

You may convey a covered work in object code form under the terms of sections 4 and 5, provided that you also convey the machine-readable Corresponding Source under the terms of this License, in one of these ways:

a) Convey the object code in, or embodied in, a physical product (including a physical distribution medium), accompanied by the Corresponding Source fixed on a durable physical medium customarily used for software interchange.

b) Convey the object code in, or embodied in, a physical product (including a physical distribution medium), accompanied by a written offer, valid for at least three years and valid for as long as you offer spare parts or customer support for that product model, ....

c) Convey individual copies of the object code with a copy of the written offer to provide the Corresponding Source. This alternative is allowed only occasionally and noncommercially

d) Convey the object code by offering access from a designated place (gratis or for a charge), and offer equivalent access to the Corresponding Source in the same way through the same place at no further charge. ....

e) Convey the object code using peer-to-peer transmission, provided you inform other peers where the object code and Corresponding Source of the work are being offered to the general public at no charge under subsection 6d.

In Nintendo's Defense

[DatbeDank]

Is it a safe bet to reason that Nintendo picked this hardware because of its mass availability in the supply chain?

I don't doubt that it is possible to make an NES with classic hardware today, but it looks like they went the easiest way to use whatever current teams they have already using off the shelf parts in a quick and dirty manner. Easy cash to be had on nostalgia.

Re:In Nintendo's Defense

[Lehk228]

it would be harder than you think, classic hardware can't drive an HDMI interface or handle modern resolutions, so if you cloned the original hardware to spec, you would then need another layer to upscale it and send it out over HDMI, which would end up costing more than the COTS mobile phone chipset they are using, while having far less options for interchangeable competition if one of the suppliers went tits up. as it is now, if their supplier vanished, there are dozens of options which could be subbed in changing only the system drivers and configs, none of the emulator system would need to be changed.

Re: In Nintendo's Defense

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo already sells Virtual Console versions of some of these games, which are coded, surprise surprise, to run on their 3DS hardware, which uses an ARM processor. So they already own and sell something very close to the binaries for the emulator.

Re:In Nintendo's Defense

[Anonymous Coward]

There are HDMI kits for the NES now.

Re:In Nintendo's Defense

[Lehk228]

yes, and they are $20-120 depending on type

Like the GeNESis Nomad?

[tepples]

Less space than a nomad.

That entirely depends on how big of an SD card you have plugged into the EverDrive in your Sega Nomad.

Re:Like the GeNESis Nomad?

[drinkypoo]

That entirely depends on how big of an SD card you have plugged into the EverDrive in your Sega Nomad.

Alas, the Nomad is also lame. I sold mine when I discovered that it wouldn't play Forgotten Worlds. DEAD TO ME

Offer under GPLv2 is to "any third party"

[tepples]

Not until someone *who owns one of these* requests the source code.

That's true for GPLv3, but GPLv2 is slightly different in that the offer for a copy of the source code must be valid for "any third party". From GPLv2 3b, with my emphasis:

Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange

And from GPLv3 6b, with my emphasis:

Convey the object code in, or embodied in, a physical product (including a physical distribution medium), accompanied by a written offer, valid for at least three years and valid for as long as you offer spare parts or customer support for that product model, to give anyone who possesses the object code either (1) a copy of the Corresponding Source for all the software in the product that is covered by this License, on a durable physical medium customarily used for software interchange, for a price no more than your reasonable cost of physically performing this conveying of source, or (2) access to copy the Corresponding Source from a network server at no charge.

But I imagine that for GPLv2-or-later software, Nintendo is choosing the GPLv2 option because of the effect on Tivoization. The GPLv2 requires distribution of "the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable," but many believe this condition is substantially weaker than the "Installation Information" condition in its successor.

So if Nintendo turns you down for not possessing a copy of the object code, you can assume they're relying on GPLv3, and you can request Installation Information.

Re:Offer under GPLv2 is to "any third party"

[Anonymous Coward]

IIRC installation information has to be provided only if the vendor himself is able to install software on the device.
So if they soldered in pre-programmed flashes, which they most likely did, they don't need to tell you how to exchange the software.

Re:Offer under GPLv2 is to "any third party"

[Ash-Fox]

But I imagine that for GPLv2-or-later software, Nintendo is choosing the GPLv2 option because of the effect on Tivoization

They didn't really have a choice, there is no GPLv3 Linux kernel and most basic userland for stripped down purposes isn't GPLv3 either.

Don't sit so close to the TV!

[mister_playboy]

Ars measured the controller cords on this system as a mere 31 inches long... they were 90 inches long on the original US systems.

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp...

Re: Don't sit so close to the TV!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not sitting close to the tv was more important back when the high voltage CRT in home color televisions was effectively an x-ray tube, albeit one weaker than the one at the dentist or hospital.

Re: Don't sit so close to the TV!

[Anonymous Coward]

Much, Much weaker. There was like an inch of leaded glass between the phosphors and your face, to protect against that very possibility. Apparently this was not great for landfils, but I'm skeptical that the lead in the glass is released at anywhere near the rate that the lead in the solder would. Glasses are usually pretty non-reactive after all.

Put it on the coffee table

[tepples]

If the short controller cords on this are like those on the original Famicom, Famicom AV, and Super Famicom, then perhaps the console is meant to sit on the coffee table or kotatsu with a long HDMI cord to the TV.

Retropi for muggles.

[WolfgangVL]

I've been building and giving away Retro-pi boxes for a few months now. I guess now those normal people not fortunate enough to collect nerd favors only get 30 games and are locked to the NES controller.

Re:Retropi for muggles.

[mukinrestak]

What controllers did you end up going with? I used Buffalo's SNES style USB for mine because they're pretty cheap and feel right, but a Pi3 can handle PS1 and some N64 stuff as well as 16 bit systems.

Re:Retropi for muggles.

[KozmoStevnNaut]

The Buffalo Classic USB Gamepad (the SNES style) is one hell of a bargain. Dare I say it even better than the originals, certainly better than a 20yo SNES pad for sure.

I don't know about the OP, but I use a DIY arcade stick as my main controller. Most people played NES/SNES using gamepads, but the NES Advantage stick was a much better controller. I based the layout of my stick on the SNES Score Master arcade stick, which is much better than trying to translate the SNES layout directly to a stick, as you're obviously using your fingers rather than your thumbs on the buttons. I use the Buffalo pad sometimes, but I prefer the stick.

Re:Retropi for muggles.

[Anonymous Coward]

I've not been happy with RetroPi due to the lag. I primarily play NES games although my wife is only interested in Sega Genesis games. I've tried Retro-pi on both Pi2 and Pi3's and have found the NES lag on both unacceptable. Playing the games on a Linux laptop resolves the lag so the games are enjoyable. I'd honestly love to hear your thoughts as I had been considering getting the NES Classic in hopes of having an enjoyable gaming experience.

Re:Retropi for muggles.

[KozmoStevnNaut]

Are you absolutely sure it's not the TV? Most modern TVs have non-trivial input lag due to image processing, so you have to switch it to game mode or something similar for gaming.

Re:Retropi for muggles.

[WolfgangVL]

What controllers did you end up going with?

I set them all up with the X-Box 360 wireless adapter. It works "out of the box" and with the exception of one person, the people I've given them to all already have wireless X-Box 360 controllers around the house so I didn't have to buy them.

Re:Retropi for muggles.

[WolfgangVL]

I found input lag on the old pi b+ unacceptable. Its much better on the 2, and seems to be completely absent when running the pi 3 and the latest Retro-pi.

Re:Retropi for muggles.

[KozmoStevnNaut]

DIY arcade stick for my primary controller, suplemented with the Buffalo SNES clone pad and two Xbox 360 pads that I had already and use on my PC for GTA IV and such. I haven't had to have more than four controllers in use simultaneously yet, but I'll probably end up grabbing a few more Buffalo pads, since they're so inexpensive.

Re:Retropi for muggles.

[WolfgangVL]

What sort of encoder did you go with on your arcade stick?

I have a leftover ipac from an arcade build and had considered doing an upright with it, but am not sure if it will jive with the pi and I understand hacking a keyboard makes ghosting issues.

Re:Retropi for muggles.

[KozmoStevnNaut]

I'm using an Ipac, it works great with no issues so far. It's simply a USB keyboard to the OS, so there should be no compatibility issues if a normal keyboard works.

If you don't want to go that route, I would recommend getting one of the Buffalo pads and soldering your connections to its PCB. It's as standard a USB gamepad as you can possibly find, I haven't had any issues with that either.

The biggest benefit of the Ipac is that it acts as a keyboard, so it'll work with games that don't have gamepad support built in.

Did you know it hasn't been made since 2012?

[Dogtanian]

"versus", not "verses". Verses are in poetry. PROTIP: Use "vs" from now on.

I guess if you want to say "verses", you should expect it to be followed by a...

(puts on sunglasses)

...chorus of disapproval.

YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Latency

[tepples]

There is nothing a FPGA brings to the table, simulation-wise, that cannot be implemented with plain old software.

I can think of one lack of latency. That's one of the advantages of the Hi-Def NES mod by Kevin Horton. Because its upscaler stores only 2 ms worth of the NES PPU's video output, latency can be one frame less than with the frame buffer used in almost every major video game platform since the Sega 32X. Even one frame can have a huge effect on the perceived responsiveness of twitchy games such as Punch-Out!!.

Modification

[JBMcB]

Changing the system running on it will probably be difficult.

Famous last words.

Or how about an esp32?

[VValdo]

there is no network access, no hardware expansion port, and the 30 games cannot be changed.

If you can find one in stock, the ESP32 costs about $9, is the size of a quarter, and also runs a NES emulator and has wifi and bluetooth and a lot more.

I'm (sorta) joking, especially as you'll need more hardware like a screen, controllers, etc. but the video is still pretty cool.

NES-on-a-chip

[Anonymous Coward]

In South Africa we didn't have the real NES. We had clones that contained the NES-on-a-chip circuitry. See for more information about this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Entertainment_System_hardware_clone

Re:NES-on-a-chip

[KozmoStevnNaut]

They were also quite popular in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Bloc in general. Some of them worked pretty well, but there were of course some compatibility issues.