Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Google Hits Back at EU Claim Over Android Abuses (bbc.com)

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the he-says-she-says dept.

Google has rejected EU allegations that it abused its market dominance of its Android mobile phone operating system. "Android hasn't hurt competition, it's expanded it," said Kent Walker, general counsel of Google. From a report on BBC: The US tech firm sent its reply on Thursday to anti-trust charges issued by the EU earlier this year over the smartphone platform. The European Commission told the BBC it would carefully consider Google's response before making a decision. Mr Walker said in a blog: "The response we filed today shows how the Android ecosystem carefully balances the interests of users, developers, hardware makers and mobile operators." He said that more than 24,000 devices from over 1,300 brands ran on Android, enabling European developers to distribute their apps to over a billion people.

29 of 63 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Fuck you Google by daveime · · Score: 1

    The "law" in this case being too popular?

  2. Re:Fuck you Google by Coisiche · · Score: 1

    They're sniffing around Apple as well, over dubious tax deals with Ireland.

  3. Re:Fuck you Google by Maritz · · Score: 1

    You think google have a monopoly on smartphone OSs? lol.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  4. Re:Sounds familiar... by Maritz · · Score: 1

    It's called a pyramid scheme. You have to pay money into a pyramid scheme.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  5. OK by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Are there similar investigations int Google's competitors? Because they seem to have platforms that are far more closed and far more under the control of those competitors than Android ever has been.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    1. Re:OK by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Yes, all of the competitors of Google that have 80% of the smartphone OS market are being investigated.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:OK by khchung · · Score: 1

      Do you know what "market dominance" means? Don't Android fan like to say Android has the majority of the smartphone market? How could *any* Android competitor, having only minority market share, abuse any market dominance?

      --
      Oliver.
  6. EU Bullshit by CrashNBrn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Android is the most open Operating System, except for maybe Linux - and with the push to force SystemD down everyone's throat,I'd say Android is more open than Linux. It's not that difficult to replace android components - almost all of the major device manufacturers do: Samsung, Xiaomi, etc.

    1. Re:EU Bullshit by Ionized · · Score: 2

      as deployed.

      blame the deployers - the smartphone makers - not Google.

    2. Re:EU Bullshit by CrashNBrn · · Score: 2

      Not really. You can get root on almost all Android devices, and most manufacturers allow for unlocking the bootloader as well. I've got root on a Xiaomi phone, though I've been having some problems with the bootloader due to this model's quirks compared to their others. I know it's possible. It looks like I need to load the Chinese Dev rom first - and I haven't had time to backup, wipe, reload *again*.

    3. Re:EU Bullshit by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Try installing (or even legally acquiring) the top 10 most popular Android apps on an AOSP phone that doesn't have any of the Google services installed.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:EU Bullshit by CrashNBrn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What for? Why would you expect Apps from the "Play Store" to work, if you aren't going to use the support services those apps need. That makes zero sense. In that case use the Xiaomi store, or the Samsung Store. Or just continue to be paranoid and have a crippled device.

    5. Re:EU Bullshit by Solandri · · Score: 2

      Actually Android is Linux - it uses the Linux kernel. But yeah, I really don't understand the EU on this. Google already releases the source code for Android If anyone has a problem with Android being "closed" or restrictive, they just need to grab the source and compile their own version. Or install a version someone else has already compiled. If that's too difficult or not to their liking, then the EU should just hire someone to make an EU version. Google has already done 99% of the work, the EU just has to do the last 1% to create their own Google-free version. Just like Amazon has done with Fire OS.

      Google places no restrictions on Android - it is free (as in beer) open source. The only restriction they place is on the Google App suite (gmail, maps, calendar, etc). If you want the suite, then the Google Play store must be on the device. Unlike a competitor whose name is a fruit, you can have other stores if you want (I have both Play and the Amazon app store). If you installed Cyanogenmod, then the Google apps suite is the gapps file you downloaded and installed afterwards. It's not a necessary step if you want to use another app store, or just use Android with directly downloaded apps.

      Short of decoupling that app suite from the Play store (which would destroy Google's revenue model, since their apps are otherwise free), there's not much else Google can do to make Android any more open and free than it already is. This is kinda like if Microsoft gave Windows away for free and released its source code as open source so anyone could make their own version (which could run all Windows programs). And they also gave away the Office suite for free with the only stipulation being that you had to also install the Microsoft Store if you wanted the Office suite. You can still get your software from other stores if you want, and there are competing office suites you can use instead of Office. Then the EU filed an anti-trust suit against Microsoft because 80% of people opted to use the Office suite.

    6. Re:EU Bullshit by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Android is the most open Operating System, except for maybe Linux - and with the push to force SystemD down everyone's throat,I'd say Android is more open than Linux. It's not that difficult to replace android components - almost all of the major device manufacturers do: Samsung, Xiaomi, etc.

      Yes, Android is open.

      However, if you want to ship Google's stuff, you have to agree to a bunch of terms and conditions. This includes having Google apps be the default, and accessible within 1 click from the Home screen.

      So if you want to ship an alternate map provider, you cannot - Google Maps must be the default and must be more easily accessed than your alternate Maps. Ditto for all the other apps you want to replace.

      And why would you do this? Because if you want the Google Play Store, well, you have to get everything else along with it. Even if you decided you wanted to write your own set of replacement apps - they must be buried and harder to access than Google's apps.

      Android is open, yes, but if you want to ship a useful Android device, well, it's a lot harder to.

    7. Re:EU Bullshit by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1

      We all know its running on top of SELinux. Which doesn't affect my "claim" at all.

    8. Re:EU Bullshit by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      No Android is 100% open. What you're talking about is the requirements to add Google Play services to a device.

  7. silicon or carbon, we're all the same by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    it's ethically wrong to abuse your android.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  8. The EU is Quasi Right. by Zombie+Ryushu · · Score: 2

    Android is the most open of the three Mobile OSes. That being said, The EU is Quasi Right. Android has a series of serious problems that need to be addressed.

    1. Per-device Roms. Android makers play Musical chipsets with Android Handsets. This is particularly true of Chinese firms like Mediatek, where the Rom has to match the CPU type (MTK6572, MTK6582, etc etc etc.)

    2. Location Services. At least on KitKat and lower, maybe some version of Lollipop. You cannot use alternate location services. This shouldn't be, and is a serious privacy concern.

    3. Root. On a device you own, you should always be able to become root. Always.

    4. Locked Bootloaders. It should not be allowed that you have Locked bootloaders onl any device you own.

    1. Re:The EU is Quasi Right. by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      If one good thing could come of this, it's that locked bootloaders become illegal in the EU.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
  9. Re:Sounds familiar... by gnick · · Score: 1

    It's not a pyramid scheme - It's a multi-level-marketing opportunity! Guaranteed riches*! Ask me how!

    *Riches not guaranteed.

    --
    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  10. Re:Sounds familiar... by gnick · · Score: 1

    John Oliver explains brilliantly here.

    --
    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  11. Re: Fuck you Google by spacepimp · · Score: 1

    Why don't you expect the same of any and all websites? In fact, ban ads and cookies altogether.

  12. 60% of Android based devices use Google's version by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Over 60% of Android-based devices use Google's version of Android. 25% use Samsung's, then there's FireOs, etc.

    I'm not sure Google has a monopoly even on ANDROID, never mind the non-Android based competitors like Apple's iOS.

    Of the top three phone makers, how many use Google's Android, rather than a completely different OS entirely or their own very different version of Android?

  13. In addition by emil · · Score: 1
    • - Google should be shipping the master kernel for all platforms, without carrier ability to block. Like RedHat, they should allow 3rd-party drivers by backporting patches into a kernel under long-term-support. All components of the master kernel should be in AOSP. This should have started with JellyBean.
    • - Android Webview is now updated from Play. This should also include Stagefright, OpenSSL/libcrypto/libssl, and libc.a. Everything in /system/lib that is NOT updated by the store should have an independent security audit to assure that it's appropriate to burn into rom.
    • - The default cipher settings for all applications should now default to the proposed-TLS 1.3 symmetric cipher set, and allow only AEAD aes/gcm and chacha/poly, with everything else denied (allow the user to open TLS1.1 ciphers with extensive warnings).
    • - Mediaserver/libstagefright must be reconfigured to chroot(/var/empty) and setuid(nobody) with open file descriptors on the media. Android's Zygote launches these components as root - this should never have happened.
    • - Android *just* enabled -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE in the last 6 months. Seriously? All available code audits and runtime code/stack protection tools should be applied yesterday.

      ...

      Android is critical communications infrastructure, and it should act like it.

  14. Total Absurdity by hackel · · Score: 2

    The notion that Google is "abusing" a "monopoly" is the most absurd accusation I've heard in a long time. The fact that Google is pouring money into an open source operating system which benefits *its own *competitors* should make this obvious to anyone. Where's the ruling for Apple, which refuses to release its source code, refuses to allow its software to run on any other hardware aside from its own, and doesn't allow any form of derivative works? Hell, they won't even allow other browser engines to run on their phones! Did Europe forget the great IE monopoly lawsuits? Come on...

    1. Re:Total Absurdity by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      I fail to see how Google investing in AOSP is benefiting Apple and Microsoft. Realistically, Google is not in competition with Samsung or other Android manufacturers.

      Google has the crosshairs on them because they may be using their market dominance to push their own products. A closer analogy is what happened with MS during the browser nonsense some years ago. Windows is still the de-facto standard OS, and was pushing IE down users throats, even going so far as making it an integral part of the OS. You could argue that Google is doing the exact same thing with Android and locking vendors into Google Play/Apps. There's no other app store that holds a candle to Googles, so manufacturers are stuck.

      It's really the same "you want to use our OS, you will have this applications on your device."

  15. Easy solution by allo · · Score: 1

    Easy solution: If the bundling really has technical reasons, they should just allow unbundling for every company, which gets the playstore to work without the other apps without sueing them. Ooops, alterantive ROMs already do this with their inofficial gapps-packages.

  16. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  17. Why else... by matbury · · Score: 1

    ...would Google develop its walled garden if not to control it? Of course they have, do, and will abuse their position of power over developers and users to maximise their own profits and market share.