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Volkswagen Plans 30,000 Job Cuts Worldwide (bbc.com)

Volkswagen has announced plans to cut 30,000 jobs worldwide with about 23,000 of the losses borne in Germany. From a report on BBC:VW, still dealing with the aftermath of the emissions-cheating scandal, aims to rejuvenate its core brand, and develop new electric and self-driving cars. VW says it will create 9,000 jobs as part of investments in new products. The cuts should bring annual savings of $3.92bn by 2020. VW and unions have been hammering out a plan to revive its fortunes since June. Volkswagen chief executive, Matthias Mueller, said it was "the biggest modernisation programme in the history of the group's core brand." "The VW brand needs a real shake-up and that is exactly what the future pact has turned out to be," he added. The car giant -- which employs 610,000 people in 31 countries -- wants to increase the brand's profit margin from 2% to 4% and to do this it will need to improve productivity at its German plants by 25%.

82 comments

  1. Counterpoint. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    VW will stop providing welfare to 30K that apparently weren't needed in the first place.

    1. Re:Counterpoint. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      How do you figure out they weren't needed in the first place? Just because they won't be needed in the future doesn't mean they weren't needed in the past.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:Counterpoint. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Too bad your parents didn't use the same logic on you the moment you were born.

    3. Re:Counterpoint. by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Funny

      Support 75th trimester abortion rights (for either parent)!

      Make the 18th birthday really special. Today, we can't just kill you on a whim.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re: Counterpoint. by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

      He'll be a conservative doing what they imagine is thinking. Not hard to spot. You just say dumb stuff like it's true and you mean it.

      --
      Only boring people are ever bored.
  2. Free Union Busting by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    is what I'm guessing this is. Notice there's a lot of talk about shaking up the brand and very little about sales figures dropping. Nobody really cared much about this scandal except the shareholders who are gonna see VW's cash reserves (slightly) eaten into.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Free Union Busting by JoeyRox · · Score: 1
    2. Re:Free Union Busting by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Counter point; the U.S. is filled to the brim with nobodies, and we as a group enjoy using breathable air. So what? Try living in Peking, if breathing is a trivial issue. As for VW's stupid dumb ass engineers; well, somebody at the top said, "ya, this work around is OK."

    3. Re:Free Union Busting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody cared?

      I cared. I wouldn't touch a VW right now. If they blatantly cheated on emissions who knows what else they cheated on? That's the kind of things I think about when I consider buying a wheeled capsule to hurtle myself down the highway at 80MPH. Other manufacturers don't have this scandal so I have plenty to choose from. As far as I'm concerned the brand is trash and it'll be years before I bother looking at VW again.

      Mitsubishi too.

    4. Re:Free Union Busting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet Volkswagen Group has sold more cars in the first ten months of 2016 than they did in the first ten months of 2015.

    5. Re:Free Union Busting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      With the possible exception of Daimler, who merely sold cars with cheating engines bought from Renault-Nissan, I am not aware of a volume car manufacturer that hasn't been caught cheating emissions or is under very serious suspicion of doing so since the VW scandal broke.

      VW acknowledged the issue, suspended everyone who could have had something to do with it, started a recall programme and it currently produces the diesel cars with the lowest NOx emissions in practice. None of the other manfucturers have even admitted that they are or were cheating, even though some are right now delivering cars producing more NOx on the road than the VW EA189 even though they are officially meeting Euro 6 on the test bench. Some, like GM, which already had a long history of cheating emissions, have even tried to cover up their cheats.

    6. Re:Free Union Busting by lgw · · Score: 1

      Yet Volkswagen Group has sold more cars in the first ten months of 2016 than they did in the first ten months of 2015.

      Volkswagon Group owns many car brands. Each is more-or-less its own company that has to justify its existence on that basis.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re:Free Union Busting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not really true. They use shared platforms and there is a very high level of technical integration between sister model cars. Some are even built on the same assembly lines (e.g. Up!/Citigo/Mii). If VW would have lost a serious number of sales due to the scandal, that would have hit the volume brands to the same extent; they all had to issue recalls and everything that happens to VW reflects equally on Audi, Porsche, Skoda and SEAT. For the latter two, Volkswagen technology is more or less their primary selling point. Moreover, one would then expect a similar effect for the other manufacturers who were caught cheating. Yet except for Mitsubishi, they all seem to be doing better than last year.

      The only region where there may have been a significant effect is the US, since there the scandal was overblown in the media even more than elsewhere and the cheating by other manufacturers has received less attention because the affected cars were not sold in the US, but the US represents only a small percentage of VW group sales and it was not faring well in the US before the scandal broke either, since most of their models do not connect well to American tastes.

    8. Re: Free Union Busting by LinuxLuver · · Score: 1

      You're forgetting the US$14 billion penalty?

      --
      Only boring people are ever bored.
  3. Employees by lazarus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's always the employees (and their families) who end up suffering for poor management decisions.

    Cheat. Get Caught. Pay fines. Lay off Employees.

    --
    I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
    1. Re:Employees by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the top managers have lost a few million off their annual bonus, and their shares have dropped precipitously too.

      Still, you can't help but wonder if whichever manager(s) were responsible for this feel any remorse towards those losing their jobs.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    2. Re:Employees by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      You don't need fines for that. Lots of managers can make employees suffer by means of poor decisions even when no fines are involved.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Have you read, you know, the actual article? Plan developed with, and agreed by, the labour union. No force lay-offs, but rather voluntary early retirement.

      There's more positive in this whole story than negative, yet people must still rant about it.

    4. Re:Employees by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      It would be interesting to see how VW treats its fellow German employees.

    5. Re:Employees by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What's that "fellow" you're talking about? Corporations know no nationalities, unless of course certain nations offer them kickbacks.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:Employees by lazarus · · Score: 1

      Have you read, you know, the actual article?

      You must be new here.

      --
      I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
    7. Re:Employees by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

      I would more than happily accept the millions that they still get as regular salary without bonus.

      --
      bickerdyke
    8. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody is going to be laid off. The job cuts are to be accomplished by not replacing retired staff and offering early retirement plans.

    9. Re:Employees by lgw · · Score: 1

      "Managers" don't get millions in salary anywhere. The word you want is "executives", and even then it's very rare for anyone to have more than a million in salary. Heck, it's very rare for anyone beyond the CEO and CFO to make more than a million in total comp.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    10. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But in the US, the lawsuit-culture has ensured that VW customers get a compensation. To my knowledge it is the only country where VW customers see anything. That money has to come from somewhere.

    11. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still, you can't help but wonder if whichever manager(s) were responsible for this feel any remorse towards those losing their jobs.

      Since those who were responsible were sacked first, they probably do.

    12. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So people who had nothing to do with any of it have to pay people who were not disadvantaged in any way. It's great for the lawyers, but it is an idiotic system.

    13. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's that "fellow" you're talking about? Corporations know no nationalities, unless of course certain nations offer them kickbacks.

      S corporations are a single person, which generally means they operate out of the country where the person lives

    14. Re:Employees by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      You forgot the last step: Cut their taxes because businesses pay too much.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    15. Re:Employees by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      Wow, 30,000 unessential employees? Now that sounds like a company with some overhead...

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    16. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is indeed a bit of overhead. VW has grown rather fast in recent years and the works council and the state government of Lower Saxony have been more concerned with jobs than with efficiency. However, the bigger issue is that VW will gradually increase the number of models with fully electric drivetrains in the coming years. Since those drivetrains have fewer components, fewer people will be needed in production. In a company with 610,000 employees, gearing up for such a shift and trying to improve efficiency quickly adds up to a large number of redundancies. Fortunately, a significant part of VW's workforce is nearing retirement age and VW has not reduced staff in the recent past, so this can be accomplished relatively easily without laying anyone off.

      The works council has agreed, on the condition that there will be no layoffs at least until 2025 and electric motors and batteries will be built in-house in Lower Saxony. I think it is a fair deal overall.

    17. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      General Motors has almost the same cars sales but has a third that number of employees.

    18. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the final step....

      receive large bonus for excellent fiscal management.

    19. Re:Employees by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      It's always the employees (and their families) who end up suffering for poor management decisions.

      A company doesn't get into this scenario with poor decisions. It gets into this scenario through a bad corporate culture. Employees are a part of that culture.

    20. Re:Employees by hey! · · Score: 1

      Except that bonuses are paid out even when the CEO presides over a disaster. Martin Winterkorn got 6.5 million dollars in performance bonuses for his last year, even though VW stock went from $253/share to $92. That's on top of a "base" salary of $1.5 million.

      Citigroup paid out $5.3 billion in "performance bonuses" in 2008, the same year the federal government had to bail them out because the company at $39 billion dollars in sub-prime mortgage backed securities that nobody knew the exact value of, and the same year their stock value went from $435/share to $35/share. Since the banking sector has recovered -- I have bank stocks which tanked in 2009 but were back to their pre-crisis value by 2010, but Citigroup has never recovered it's share price; it hasn't gone up over $60 in the eight years since, but they continue to pay out massive "performance bonuses" every year, rain or shine.

      The idea that "performance bonuses" have anything to do with accountability for results is ludicrous. They have everything to do with that these people are powerful enough to write the rules for themselves.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    21. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that true, what'd ya think Mr. "It's going to be huge" will do when he screws up?

    22. Re:Employees by lgw · · Score: 1

      "Performance bonus" is nominally a different thing than "salary", though of course both get paid no matter what. Winterkorn is an executive, not a manager. An since he was chairman of the board and thus could set his own compensation, it's hardly surprising he decided he was worth that much even as a failure.

      Citigroup paid out $5.3 billion in "performance bonuses" in 2008, the same year the federal government had to bail them out because the company at $39 billion dollars in sub-prime mortgage backed securities

      The sub-prime bailout were nothing but handing taxpayer money to banking executives. They had no other purpose, and achieved no other goal.

      The idea that "performance bonuses" have anything to do with accountability for results is ludicrous. They have everything to do with that these people are powerful enough to write the rules for themselves.

      Well, yeah, so what kind of idiot would own stock in a financial company?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    23. Re:Employees by ark1 · · Score: 1

      They have over 600K employees - %5 of overhead/incompetent/irrelevant... is not that much.

    24. Re:Employees by hey! · · Score: 1

      Well, it's one of a number of stocks I own, and has actually done pretty well, returning to its pre-crisis in about a year. So from a financial standpoint it isn't really so idiotic to hold this one stock in my portfolio.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    25. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For companies that have a long history of systematic cheating. lying, skirting regulations and bribing politicians, such as General Motors, Ford and Fiat Chrysler, you may have a point. These companies are essentially rotten to the core. However, Volkswagen came in much more serious trouble due to what amounts to a single instance of bad judgement from a relatively small number of people, only because others could not believe their colleagues would cheat and a foreign government saw a chance to further its economic interests. There was a lack of checks and balances and management has been naive, but I don't think that is a sign of a bad corporate culture. It is mostly a sign of a company ran by engineers.

      I think they have learnt from all of this. They have introduced additional checks and balances and VW have hired a former Constitutional Court judge as head of compliance, who formerly held the same position at Daimler. It is just a shame it has cost VW so much money and that it had to take such a big hit in the media for what later turned out to be an industry-wide problem.

    26. Re:Employees by lgw · · Score: 1

      I bought a lottery scratch-off ticket, and won more than it costs, so from a financial standpoint is was a good bet?

      I guess you could argue that the government is so corrupt that financials will keep their gains, but have their losses shielded by the taxpayer, and so they're a good bet on that basis - but only for too big to fail banks, and only if they don't decide to screw the stockholders along with the taxpayers next time.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    27. Re:Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A more worrying outcome is that the scandal has shifted attention from particulates to nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide (NOx). Whereas NOx is an irritant that can aggravate lung conditions in high concentrations, particulates cause cancer and heart disease. Particulates are a much more serious health concern. There are even people now who buy petrol cars instead of diesels because they mistakenly think that those are better for the environment, whereas in reality their new cars are producing more of every single pollutant except the relatively harmless NOx. While it is only a small percentage of car buyers (diesel market share this year is still within a percent of last year's), it is a harmful trend. The media are very eager to report on a scandal, but they lack the knowledge to properly explain things. Even government agencies are often more concerned with protecting domestic industry, public image, obtaining money and the careers of those in charge than with the environment and public health. Dieselgate has changed a lot for the worse.

  4. New workers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Its a good thing that Germany recently got a whole bunch of educated, civil, and German speaking refugees.

    1. Re: New workers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Idiot troll. Now click your heels, Adolph.

    2. Re: New workers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's ADOLF you insensitive clod! Yours s sincerely, Mein Fuhrer

    3. Re:New workers by unixisc · · Score: 2

      If you are referring to the Syrians, what exactly in the news suggests that even a good percentage of them are German speaking? German is not one of the common languages in Syria - French is. If you are not referring to the Syrians, who are you referring to?

    4. Re: New workers by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      and they have a union as well.

  5. I presume these layoffs are managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I presume these layoffs are managers and executives who presided over the wanton illegality perpetrated by VW over most of recent memory. Laying these people off makes good business sense seeing as they are overpaid and mostly cost the company $$$ in civil and criminal penalties.

    1. Re:I presume these layoffs are managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. Bad behavior is celebrated and rewarded in corporate culture.

      That's the current cultural revolution in the US. Corporate culture is becoming American culture... so we elect the worst behaving people from top to bottom.

    2. Re:I presume these layoffs are managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The employees who were responsible, including managers, have already been either sacked or suspended pending investigation. This annoucement is about the future. There will be no layoffs, but the workforce will be reduced by 30,000 (5%) by attrition because electric cars require fewer components and less assembly work.

  6. Mission accomplished by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because this was never about getting a fair compensation for the supposed damages caused. This was all about hitting hard and as hard as possible on a large competitor in a lucrative market. $19 billion for this extra emission? Remember that their own GM f.ex. only had to pay a token sum of a few tens of millions for their own cheating, which caused dozens of immediate deaths.

  7. And... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The new Beetles coming out next year will have 958 horsepower, and get 134 miles per gallon, and will pass California's smog check.

  8. Overpriced cars w/ big overheads by unixisc · · Score: 2

    I used to own a Passat years ago. Easily the worst car I ever owned, but it was the wife's pick. Thing about it was that all repairs were expensive, thanks to VW's practice of replacing entire modules if there was just a small thing wrong. Like if your indicator LED on your dashboard stopped working, the entire front panel needed to be replaced.

    It would be one thing to have that on Mercs, Beamers or Porsches, but I just couldn't justify that on a VW

    1. Re:Overpriced cars w/ big overheads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah - stupid women

    2. Re:Overpriced cars w/ big overheads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have owned a 2013 Passat 3BG for the past five years. The only repairs it has ever needed were a few wear items (tyres, wiper blades, brake pads) and a rubber hose that was becoming a little porous (but not yet causing any problems). One of the reasons I bought it was that it was the second-most reliable car in its class (behind the Audi A4) according to ADAC statistics of its age at the time I bought it. I have not been disappointed.

    3. Re:Overpriced cars w/ big overheads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same here. A $20 thermostat failed on my VW Tiguan. That's a $800 bill to get replaced because VW. Fortunately it failed in such a way that engine just runs a bit cooler so I'm not fixing it until things change.

    4. Re:Overpriced cars w/ big overheads by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      Way to throw your wife under the (VW) bus....

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  9. Fake number by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2

    The company reports 30,000 upcoming, but it'll be much more in the end when the story is forgotten and nobody's watching. The company has implemented a cheating device that reports fake numbers when the press and incestors are watching: they call it the PR Department...

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:Fake number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and incestors are watching

      I assume this refers to the German people.

    2. Re:Fake number by shortscruffydave · · Score: 1

      and incestors are watching

      Bunch of motherf****rs

    3. Re:Fake number by thomn8r · · Score: 3, Funny

      and incestors are watching

      I assume this refers to the German people.

      They have plants in Arkansas and Alabama

    4. Re:Fake number by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Bavarians, if you want to translate your prejudices to Germany.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    5. Re:Fake number by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      The company reports 30,000 upcoming, but it'll be much more in the end when the story is forgotten and nobody's watching. The company has implemented a cheating device that reports fake numbers when the press and incestors are watching: they call it the PR Department...

      That is the most accurate description of C-level management I have ever seen. Well done.

    6. Re:Fake number by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The company reports 30,000 upcoming, but it'll be much more in the end when the story is forgotten and nobody's watching.

      Doubt it. That is the opposite of what usually happens. Normally they announce big, looks good for share holders and people watching and then don't actually lay as many people off.

      I worked for a company which recently announced 5000 job cuts. When I asked management about it the answer was, yes, but you've known about this for a long time. We've just re-announced and massaged a number that we have been working with for over a year already.

  10. Volkswagn layoffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, obviously if these workers are unnecessary after the revelation of the existence of the software to circumvent environmental regulations, then one can conclude that the number of people whose sole job was to develop and implement such software as well as those hired just to cover it up and lawyers to try to get out of liability for it must equal 30,000 people!

  11. 9.000 new jobs! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Of course, we first have to lay off 23.000, and it goes without saying that those 9.000 will be hired via temp agencies and only if you offer us some kickbacks, else we're going to build those cars in Romania.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:9.000 new jobs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you read the press release, they said they'd be automating.

      They're laying off 33k, hiring 9k.. And plan to improve output of their US plants by 25 percent. Sheeding 24k employees and upping production.

      This is stuff they were going to do anyway, but in light of the fines they need to up their timetables to stay competiative

    2. Re:9.000 new jobs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      they said they'd be automating

      So 23,000 sexbots are going to be hired? that should fix their sales figures!

  12. Obvious troll is obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Film at 11

  13. Difficult Job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to do this it will need to improve productivity at its German plants by 25%.

    That would be quite an accomplishment for a modern factory already optimized to tilt. Perhaps they are measuring productivity at a different level and increase the average unit price of the products from these factories by 25% without increasing the bill of materials and labor.

  14. I had a Passat as well; same problem by dcavanaugh · · Score: 1

    My Passat was fun to drive, but only on the days when the car actually worked. Unfortunately, there were not enough of those days. Over the course of six months, I spent about $3600 at the dealership on a wide variety of problems. Each time, I thought the car would be OK for a while. And it was -- for about a month. After a while, I realized I was spending about $600/month to drive a 5-year old car. It would be cheaper to buy a new car whose payments are less than $600/month and drive that instead. So I did. I owned several VWs up to that point, but never again.

    1. Re:I had a Passat as well; same problem by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't care what brand of car you own (exception for exotics needing factory service to retain value).

      Never take a car to a dealership for non-warranty work. Never.

      WTF were you thinking?

      If you know nothing about cars, have a friend that does, find you a reasonably honest shop. You'll note that she/he won't even consider the 'stealerships'. Many dealership mechanics are honest, but the whole place _isn't_. It's not (necessarily) the dealership mechanic stealing from you, it's everybody else there...$100+ labor rate for recent 'wyotech' grads...'retail' parts pricing...you literally can't do worse.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:I had a Passat as well; same problem by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      you literally can't do worse

      Well.... you could.... If you don't fix your car then you have a rather large, relatively expensive and utterly worthless piece of junk sitting in your parking space.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  15. Fun times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Management fucks up and does something thats illegal, they "recover" by laying off line workers, as if that was ever the problem.

    1. Re:Fun times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Increasing the percentage of electric cars in the near future is not illegal.

    2. Re:Fun times by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Increasing the percentage of electric cars in the near future is not illegal.

      Well, not till Trump is in the White House, anyway!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    3. Re: Fun times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama and the Democrats are the ones who fellated GM and Chrysler instead of letting them be reorganized under bankruptcy rules.

    4. Re:Fun times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because it was certainly a manager that "forgot" to remove the cheat code.

  16. Wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Must be all those Mexicans pouring over their border.

  17. Verify, don't Trust by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Look, we have three things to consider, that impact VW.

    One, emissions. Verify, don't trust. Random driving by humans in all terrain, with stops and in-city and country separate. Is it as easy as doing in a building? No. But they will game the system. So put a diaper gas bag on that baby.

    Two, electric cars. Battery life in real world applications with different usage in desert, mountains, city, and moderate temp. Again, field tests, not just in buildings.

    Three, for the most part, trust the stats for electrics, hard to gin those up in field tests. But never trust the stats for fossil fuel cars, those they will always try to fake the emissions. And it's not just VW that does that.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  18. Woosh by mpercy · · Score: 1

    Went right over your head...

  19. Re:Fake number typo by PlaynBass · · Score: 1

    Muvh to do about a silly typo. Vompounded by a lavk of simple proofreading before sending. (v=c) Has led this thread to risk potential accusations of prejudice on several levels, even though locker room humor is apparently back in vogue in the USA.

    --
    PlaynBass