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Why Automation Won't Displace Human Workers (diginomica.com)

"There was never a job opening for a drone pilot until there was something to fly," writes the founder of market research firm Beagle Research Group, arguing that automation won't inevitably lead society to a universal basic income "free lunch" because new jobs arise when "new capabilities, technical and otherwise, innovate them into existence." Heck, computer programmers had no existence until computers. At one point a computer was just someone who was very good at math performing calculations all day...it took a year to check all of the calculations needed to produce the atomic bomb and that work was all done by humans. Imagine how history might be different if even one of them had a pocket calculator. You get the idea. New technology inspires new jobs.
He also argues that historically automation eliminates jobs that were "dull, dirty, and dangerous," and that automation also ends up performing previously-nonexistent jobs -- or work that was forced onto customers in self-service scenarios.

11 of 540 comments (clear)

  1. There is math for that by sulimma · · Score: 5, Informative

    New jobs - due to innovation or due to other reasons - is what macroeconomics call "growth".
    Less jobs for the same effect - due to automation or for other reasons - is what they call an increase in "productivity".
    Both effects are measured and reported by various sources.

    For the last decades growth has been lower thant productivity gains. These measurements include all the effects he is listing.
    The projections for the future are worse. Some of these projections take all these effects into account.

  2. Not automation by altrent2003 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "There was never a job opening for a drone pilot until there was something to fly,"
    A drone is not automation. A self driving drone that knows what to pick up and where to deliver it autonomously is automation. It doesn't need a pilot.
    I'd be concerned ordering market research studies from this man's company.

  3. There will be less jobs by blackest_k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've automated a few production lines and the reasons for the automation was to reduce the number of people running the lines. What does happen is a skilled maintenance engineer is required to fix problems on that line and generally a few other similar lines. That can result in the loss of 100 jobs and the creation of 1.

    Some processes can result in totally unmanned sites and people only are needed on site when the equipment reports a fault actually often not even then since a backup system tends to come online.

    It's not a bad thing to automate jobs but there is a cost to communities when the jobs go.

  4. Re: Finally by bistromath007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is how it has always worked before because previous technologies solved specific problems better than human hands alone.

    We are on the cusp of general purpose automation. It won't work this way again.

  5. true but missing the point by cellocgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, it's true that every automation, starting with steam engines to run mines, led to an explosion of new job categories.

    But what he's missing is that the concept of "everyone should get a job" is just plain wrong. The increase in productivity, and in automation, ought to lead to a situation where goods are so plentiful that we do not need to work, or maybe only work 20 hrs/week for 15 years before retiring. The whole "work ethic" thing arose from two events. The first was humans drifting out of their natural habitat into regions hostile to survival, necessitating a "work or die" paradigm. The second was the development of communities with leaders & followers, in which sooner or later the leaders stop working but spread the gospel of hard work -- which the proles must do to support the leaders.

    --
    https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
  6. It's not silly. by Zelig · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you want to try out your analysis of silly, start by trying to answer "What employment sector can absorb the 3.5 million truck drivers who will be replaced with automated vehicles?". Apply your own biases for how quickly this will have to happen; I'm wild guessing ~5-7 years, starting ~5 years from now.

    Then add a million bus and taxi drivers, and then add the job count you ascribe to the edges of trucking (convenience stores and such that cater to them) ... These are essentially unskilled jobs. All you need is a certain threshold of reliability and discipline; for that, you get a good, heretofore stable, career.

    1. Re:It's not silly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just because the cost to provide goods goes down doesn't mean the cost of the good goes down. If a company can lower their expenses but charge you the same amount, I'm pretty sure they're going to try just that. Competition doesn't always work as well as people seem to think it will.

      And just because you consume things for free online doesn't mean somebody doesn't pay. It just isn't you, directly. There are still costs involved that have to be covered.

  7. This isn't a mechanical loom we're talking about by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The beginning of automation saw a replacement of human and animal muscle power with water and (later) chemical power. There was little displacement going on, and the increase in output was a necessity anyway due to there being severe shortages. No problems here, quite the opposite.

    The next wave was the replacement of menial work with mechanical work. Especially in agriculture a lot of farmhands were replaced by machinery. Low skilled jobs were eliminated in favor of higher skilled jobs that again increased output. This did displace workers and was one of the reasons of the early problems with working poor in the early days of the industrial revolution, where farmhands that were out of a job now moved to the cities where industries offered them.

    Next in line were industry jobs getting the same axing, with more streamlining and fewer low skilled jobs being replaced by mechanical workers. This was buffered by the emerging service industry that could gobble up the eliminated low education workforce. That we were fighting world spanning wars around that time sure also helped.

    Fast forward to today. Again, jobs are being replaced by robots. This time around, though, none of the former buffering and mitigating factors come into play. We do not need more production. We already produce more than we can sell. By some margin and then some. We also cannot put more people into the service sector, 3 out of 4 people are already working there, and a service industry is highly dependent on people having spare spending money, so these people will not be moving towards another industry branch. They also cannot move anywhere because there is nowhere to go where jobs are being offered.

    This time around this is going to sting.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Re:Finally by HanzoSpam · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sure, automation creates new jobs, But not everyone has the wherewithal to be a software developer. High-skill jobs will always exist, but how many will be available to all of the truck drivers displaced by self-driving trucks?

    --

    Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
  9. Re: Finally by sinij · · Score: 5, Informative

    No, it doesn't depend. Most people are not creative in any way or form and you don't need creativity in routine situations. Most of what we consider a job today also does not require creativity. Sure, creative, knowledgeable and smart people will find jobs in post-automation world. This is maybe 10% of population, what the rest of 90% of population would do? Starve to death? It used to be service, but we killed that culture in the Western world - very few have a cleaner, cook, live-in nanny, butler and so on.

  10. Doesn't depend at all. by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No, it doesn't depend. Most people are not creative in any way or form and you don't need creativity in routine situations. Most of what we consider a job today also does not require creativity.

    Exactly this, and even that's only applicable if AI stalls where it is, which is a ridiculously unlikely assumption to make.

    Sure, creative, knowledgeable and smart people will find jobs in post-automation world.

    They'll find undertakings that suit them (as will everyone else.) They won't find jobs. No one will be paying anyone for anything; because "pay" will be an obsolete model. There's no reason to have a medium of exchange that discriminates between one person doing something completely optional, and another doing something completely optional.

    It used to be service, but we killed that culture in the Western world

    There's only one class of service (or "service") humans can provide that automation is unable to eventually cover, and that is interaction with other humans. Bartending, maid/butler, sex, sports, appreciation -- these kinds of things. Having said that, if people want those most of the things those interactions accomplish done well, then they will still turn to automation, with at least the initial exception of sex for procreative purposes (but that's not to say that couldn't succumb as well.)

    I don't doubt for a moment that at least for a while, it will be a mark of some kind of status to have a human servant. But in a society where no one has to work, I also don't doubt for a moment that finding mentally healthy humans who want to serve in such fashions will be quite difficult.

    very few have a cleaner, cook, live-in nanny, butler and so on.

    [glances at Roomba cruising around in the hall] Actually, service is coming back. It is automated service though, and in its ultimate form, won't involve condemning people to working. The opposite: it will free them.

    What I do with my mind that is enjoyable for me, I already do for free (because I can... when others can, I am certain they will as well.)

    OTOH, what I do that I have to: I clean the catbox, mow the lawn, shop for food, wash the windows, dust, wash the dishes, cook, make the bed, wash the clothes, bedding, curtains, towels and so on, empty the Roomba, take out the trash, keep the house painted and otherwise maintained, gutters clear, deck stained and so on for a huge long list of "has to be done simply to maintain the status quo."

    There isn't even one thing in that list that I want to do, and as each one falls to automation, I will be smiling ear-to-ear.

    Non-conscious, sophisticated automation will free us. Conscious AI (which is to say, actual, true Scotsman AI) will almost certainly not, in and of itself; although I have little doubt that conscious AI will help us out quite a bit with non-conscious automation design.

    Just as those of us who could afford them almost entirely stopped sweeping when vacuum cleaners became a thing; and those of us who have circumstances where Roombas can work and have put one into play have stopped vacuuming... we'll stop emptying the Roomba when it can empty itself. That goes for everything we don't actually want to do. the writing's on the wall. All we have to do is read it.

    The problem isn't the non-working society I describe above. The problem -- and it will be a huge problem -- will be the transition from the working society we have now to a non-working society. UBI is the key to getting that accomplished with the least blood on the floor. Probably literally.

    Anyone who argues that jobs will remain a dependable social construct in the face of our present technological path is in error. Barring serious disaster - comet, climate, war, major vulcanism, significant solar misbehavior, etc. - there's just no way we aren't headed for a jobless society.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.