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FBI To Gain Expanded Hacking Powers as Senate Effort To Block Fails (reuters.com)

A last-ditch effort in the Senate to block or delay rule changes that would expand the U.S. government's hacking powers failed Wednesday, despite concerns the changes would jeopardize the privacy rights of innocent Americans and risk possible abuse by the incoming administration of President-elect Donald Trump. Reuters adds: Democratic Senator Ron Wyden attempted three times to delay the changes which, will take effect on Thursday and allow U.S. judges will be able to issue search warrants that give the FBI the authority to remotely access computers in any jurisdiction, potentially even overseas. His efforts were blocked by Senator John Cornyn of Texas, the Senate's second-ranking Republican. The changes will allow judges to issue warrants in cases when a suspect uses anonymizing technology to conceal the location of his or her computer or for an investigation into a network of hacked or infected computers, such as a botnet.

90 of 153 comments (clear)

  1. Ban Encryption by DickBreath · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can the government just ban encryption already?

    And do we really need HTTPS ?

    The FBI's hacking would be easier if all systems were required to have a special port with a telnetd root shell running, exclusively for the FBI's use, of course.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    1. Re:Ban Encryption by RhettLivingston · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd give you a +1 "funny", but, in the current environment, there are a large number of readers who are likely saying "exactly!"

      And that is how history repeats itself.

    2. Re:Ban Encryption by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      The government has decided it should not ban encryption.
      This would make us all less safe.
      Instead, the government has invested effort in developing the strongest encryption key.
      The strength of this key will keep us all safe.
      Everyone must begin using this encryption key immediately.
      People who refuse are obviously up to no good.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    3. Re:Ban Encryption by RhettLivingston · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the sad thing is, I don't doubt it. Every time I post something on the internet today that speaks or even just jokes against the continuance of this fear-based drive to give more power to the establishment, I hesitate to press "submit". I have canceled more things than I've submitted for that exact reason.

    4. Re:Ban Encryption by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Better than that would be to require that ca1.nsa.gov be required to be a root CA on every device capable of using a cert. Then nothing is compromised. But the government could compromise everything.

    5. Re:Ban Encryption by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The problem for that is the US would then need a special, bespoke production line and that would add costs to vast international just in time production runs.
      Costs in testing, costs in staff, costs in a brands ramp up and down over a product "just for the USA".
      All the interesting people would avoid any US telco network compatible device knowing its wide open to the US gov by design.
      Weak junk US gov mandated design keys would then walk with staff, ex staff, former staff, private detectives, faiths, other nations, cults, the media.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:Ban Encryption by Nostalgia4Infinity · · Score: 2

      If you are going to blame me for imagined transgressions that Trump may commit in the future may I blame you for the actual hits on freedom committed by the the Obama administration?

    7. Re:Ban Encryption by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      On the other side of things I have been pretty critical of the government especially the various law enforcement and security agencies. If more people call them out as well as their elected representatives we might actually change things. It isn't like I have called my soon to be former congressman either mentally retarded or willfully ignorant when he call me to assure me that the USA FREEDOM act wouldn't do what the fucking law says it was going to do. I have long been a thorn in their side and as someone who likely does enjoy some "white privilege" being a white male with a clean background good education and good job I am willing to use that privilege to fight to keep rights for everyone.

      --
      Time to offend someone
  2. Pay attention. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Democratic Senator Ron Wyden attempted three times to delay the changes which, will take effect on Thursday and allow U.S. judges will be able to issue search warrants that give the FBI the authority to remotely access computers in any jurisdiction, potentially even overseas. His efforts were blocked by Senator John Cornyn of Texas,

    Bear this in mind: A Democrat tried to block the FBI from hacking any computer anywhere and a Republican tried to stop it.

    And yes, Democratic Senator Ron Wyden has been opposing this snooping since he entered the Senate in 1996, so no, it doesn't have anything to do with Donald Trump or President Obama.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Pay attention. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bear this in mind. A Democrat did this with an incoming Republican President.

      NOT when it was an incoming Democrat President.

      But then I suppose Pope Ratzo has selective recall and forgets that Pelosi campaigned on repealing the Patriot Act in 2006 if they won the house, then in 2008 if they won the Presidency. Then EXTENDED the sunset provisions!

    2. Re:Pay attention. by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      In fairness, this isn't a 100% left/right divide, although there seems to be more opposition from Democrats than Republicans. That said however, the important thing is to remember who voted for which, and work to get those people out of office. And the best way to do that? Most likely through support of primary opponents that make an issue of this.

    3. Re:Pay attention. by harrkev · · Score: 1

      Explain to me why this is a bad thing? This allows the FBI to hack a computer IF THEY HAVE A WARRANT!

      I am VERY firmly against surveillance without a warrant (and a fan of Snowden), but if a judge signs a search warrant, I say the the government do what they need to do.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    4. Re:Pay attention. by RhettLivingston · · Score: 2

      Rest easy, it is not an order to hack systems, only an allowance to do so when absolutely necessary. Under Trump's watch, capabilities like this will only be used with "people that have to be tracked". These are neither the laws you should be afraid of or the droids you're looking for.

    5. Re:Pay attention. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is like the police getting a warrant to search every house in an entire city. You don't see why this is bad?

    6. Re:Pay attention. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Bear this in mind. A Democrat did this with an incoming Republican President.

      NOT when it was an incoming Democrat President.

      Yes, Senator Wyden did it when Barack Obama was president-elect, too.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re:Pay attention. by robinsonne · · Score: 2

      Senator Wyden has been against government snooping from the beginning of him being in office. He's one of the few politicians with any scruples at all IMHO.

    8. Re:Pay attention. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Yet the Democrats voted for it as well. That is how it passed. There is no "side" here.

      Republicans have controlled congress since 2010.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:Pay attention. by DickBreath · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This allows the government to hack AN UNLIMITED NUMBER OF COMPUTERS if they have a rubber stampped warrant from a judge who has no understanding of what they are signing.

      But hey, if the government says they need something, then they should probably get it.

      And there is this . . .

      Meesa thinks a weesa should give the chancellor emergency powers. -- Jar Jar Binks

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    10. Re:Pay attention. by mrbester · · Score: 1

      They are not allowed to hack my computer even IF THEY HAVE A WARRANT, because no warrant can be granted for a computer on foreign soil.

      Of course, they'll just get GCHQ to do it for them, but still.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    11. Re:Pay attention. by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      or President Obama.

      Except, couldn't Obama veto it?

    12. Re:Pay attention. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Because they will always overreach, and this gives them the justification and opportunity to overreach. Judges are mostly older, ignorant of technology, and for the most part blissfully ignorant in regards to the constitutional protection of information as it applies to the 21st century. This expansion of powers should be immediately repealed. We need to reform information technology laws in a way that is based on rational understanding of Constitutional rights. It might mean that private data is unobtainable without permission from those whose information is being requested - because encryption is available that cannot be broken. Faced with that fact, reform is needed.

      In a world where judges equate green text on a black screen as an indicator of "hacking" , there is no way in hell this law can be reasonably enacted. The government should be able to investigate you with a warrant. In a world with encryption, that means that you cannot possibly enforce criminalization of information, unless you cripple or outlaw encryption itself.

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

      Your biometrics? That's your person. Data? That's your papers. Effects? That's your digital devices. All of these things are poorly understood by the public in general and government officials in particular. This law has no concept of specificity in regards to the person, place, or thing being seized. It's a pretty clearcut fucking amendment in the constitution, and I'm sickened by the contortions these power hungry morons go through to justify bypassing it.

      You can't get a warrant to go fishing. The fundamental outcome of this law is the ability of the FBI to go trawling on a vast scale. Just look at every instance ever where any government has had the opportunity to go too far. They never, ever hold back. and are rarely held accountable.

      You might ask if I'm not doing anything wrong, then what do I have to hide? If I'm not doing anything wrong, the government has no right to peruse my data. I have every right to hide that information.

      Encryption is inherently an asymmetric projection of power over personal information, and it terrifies these people.

    13. Re:Pay attention. by harrkev · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This allows the government to hack AN UNLIMITED NUMBER OF COMPUTERS if they have a rubber stampped warrant from a judge who has no understanding of what they are signing.

      I would assume that a judge would have some common sense. A warrant might say "All computers own by XXX person" or "all computers at XXX location." I doubt that a judge will sign a warrant for "all computers in Utah."

      What is the alternative? "Whoops, we got a warrant to search five computers, but all of the illegal stuff is on computer #6, so we have to let this criminal go?"

      Judges had to go through law school -- they are generally not stupid. I bet that most of them even own a computer or two.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    14. Re:Pay attention. by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      Why do think this, what specific legal impediment, law, case law, precedent can you site that exists?

      Microsoft has had some issues with this and EU privacy laws around E-mail, I don't know the matter is entirely dead yet.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    15. Re:Pay attention. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      If I can connect, you have made your computer available in whatever jurisdiction I live in.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    16. Re:Pay attention. by networkBoy · · Score: 2

      you would be (profoundly) sadly surprised at the level of naivety most of the judicial has about computers beyond using them for office related apps.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    17. Re:Pay attention. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      mod up.

      the R's own all the bullshit that has happened under obama.

      whatever O wanted, the R's denied. 'whatever it is you want, we don't want it and we will burn the country down to show how much we have O'

      don't give us shit about the D's being at fault. they have not been truly in power in well over a decade.

      at this point, with all 4 branches led by R-based idiots (the nsa/cia/fbi are the 4th branch. you didn't know that?) - we're going to see some major derpage coming our way and we won't have anyone to fight it. god dammit so much!

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    18. Re:Pay attention. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      typo: s/b/ 'we will burn the country down to show how much we hate O'

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    19. Re:Pay attention. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Except, couldn't Obama veto it?

      Sure. My point is that you can find Democrats who aren't fascists. Ron Wyden is one. When push comes to shove, the GOP will line up and support fascists.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    20. Re:Pay attention. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Right...because the Judge that signed the warrant that allowed the police to force EVERYONE in a bank to unlock their phones using their fingerprint (obviously only those people who didn't use a pass code) went to law school so he/she understood the implications of the warrant (you'll have to google it but it was on Slashdot some months ago).

      Seriously, what is the substantive difference between a warrant to force everyone to unlock their phones in a location such as a bank, that may only be there conducting normal banking business, and one that allows the FBI to 'hack all computers in Utah'. The broadness of the warrant is virtually the same (the 'number' of people affected has no bearing on this in terms of 'broadness').

      Going to law school doesn't mean that Judges think like you at all. In fact I would argue that going to law school should disqualify a person from becoming a Judge. If you can't tell the difference between a warrant that is specific & tailored for a specific purpose based on solid evidence & a 'broad one' simply from graduating high school than you don't deserve to be a Judge. All that going to law school does is give Judges knowledge of how other Judges have carved out 'exceptions' and make them 'smart enough' to expand those exceptions as the opportunity arises.

      Don't get me wrong, it must suck to be a person who might be responsible for the death of a kidnapped child for instance while sticking up for freedom, I wouldn't envy someone who has that decision to make (I'm using an 'awful scenario' on purpose), or potentially be someone responsible for the death of thousands (e.g. the 9/11 attack assuming it could have been stopped with a warrant) but that's the job, people shouldn't take it if they aren't up to it.

    21. Re:Pay attention. by Zak3056 · · Score: 1

      Yet the Democrats voted for it as well. That is how it passed. There is no "side" here.

      Republicans have controlled congress since 2010.

      The article is incredibly short on detail, but it appears this is the result of changes to the federal rules of criminal procedure, which are made directly by the Supreme Court pursuant to an act passed in 1934 granting them that power. The court, last I checked, was a Supremely partisan (pun intended) 4-4 mix, but they seem to agree on this. While it's true that the congress could have stopped those rules, I don't believe it's something that commonly happens, partisan rhetoric aside.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    22. Re:Pay attention. by Zak3056 · · Score: 1

      Except, couldn't Obama veto it?

      It doesn't appear so. The article is poorly written and very short on detail, but this looks like a change to the federal rules of criminal procedure, which are controlled directly by the Supreme Court. Congress CAN challenge these rules (the fact that the court has the ability to make these rules at all is a power delegated to them by the congress) but it typically does not. The president apparently has no say unless the congress acts.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    23. Re:Pay attention. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      The court, last I checked, was a Supremely partisan (pun intended) 4-4 mix, but they seem to agree on this.

      This issue has not come before the Court since it's been a 4-4 mix. The last time this issue came up to SCOTUS, it was under Republican control.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    24. Re:Pay attention. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I don't really have a problem with this particular thing, as far as I can tell. It requires a warrant still.
      It's the warrantless stuff, and the secret trials that I oppose. I don't oppose everything the FBI/NSA does (although there is a frighteningly large amount of what they do that I oppose, which is concerning).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    25. Re:Pay attention. by cmseagle · · Score: 1

      if they have a rubber stampped warrant from a judge who has no understanding of what they are signing

      You are aware that search warrants are a thing today, right? If judges are rubber-stamping warrants they don't understand, it's a problem that has nothing to do with this law.

    26. Re:Pay attention. by antdude · · Score: 1

      I am sure Jar Jar Binks would be a better candidate than today's. :P

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    27. Re:Pay attention. by Zak3056 · · Score: 1

      Whether the issue comes before the court or not is moot--this isn't a judicial precedent, this is a rule as to how US courts behave. It's ambiguous whether or not Scalia was alive or not at the time this rule was codified--apparently, the Court transmits the rules to Congress "by May 1st" of the year they go into effect, and the rules can take effect no earlier than December 1st of that year. Since Scalia died in February, it's more likely than not this happened after his death.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    28. Re:Pay attention. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Since Scalia died in February, it's more likely than not this happened after his death.

      You will find that he was not.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    29. Re:Pay attention. by Zak3056 · · Score: 1

      You will find that he was not.

      Are we playing madlibs?

      Snarking aside, I'm not especially educated on this topic... if you can find a date for this rule (I personally cannot) I'd love to see it so I can learn more.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
  3. msmash/manish by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Who is msmash/manish? He/she seems to have an agenda?

    1. Re:msmash/manish by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      But I guess you do? Waah, poor Space Nutter doesn't like me posting.

  4. Take Note by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Take note of who voted for, and against, this.

    I haven't seen a posting yet of the entire list, but in addition to the two named in the summary, Chris Coons (D-Delaware) and Steve Maines (R-Montana) are also noted in TFA as voicing opposition.

    1. Re:Take Note by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 1

      The best I got was the listing of sponsors for one of the bills:
      Senator Wyden (along with Sens. Coons, Lee, Franken, and Daines)

      Source

    2. Re:Take Note by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Last time I saw an analysis of support for surveillance etc in congress, it was interestingly not divided along party lines. Roughly equal parts D and R opposed and supported it.
      Rather, congress was divided by how much time they've spent in office. The newer ones tended to oppose it, and the older ones tended to support it. Note that the American public as a whole seems to favor it, so any campaign to change this should be aimed primarily at the American public, not the senators. Also, i think the country is kind of tired of being outraged, so I don't think you can get them outraged again. But who knows.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  5. Honesty has its virtue by rectalfeeding · · Score: 1

    On the one hand this of course sounds bad for all the obvious reasons slashdot has focused on over the many many years. On the other hand however, better they are honest with the public about the torture and hacking they were going to be doing regardless of what their laws said.

    1. Re:Honesty has its virtue by Altrag · · Score: 1

      Sort of. When they're doing it all cloak and dagger, they have two fairly strong restrictions:
      1) A slap on the wrist if anyone finds out.
      2) Inadmissible in court.

      When they're doing it in public, they only have the one restriction: That a judge sign off on it. And given that there doesn't appear to be much in the way of jurisdictional restrictions, they only really have to find one judge somewhere in the country who's willing to sign off on whatever with minimal convincing.

      Countries like Russia, China, etc.. hell even friendly countries like Canada or the UK.. should be super annoyed with this though as the FBI is effectively claiming jurisdiction over their most-definitely-not-American computer systems (and the citizens operating them.)

    2. Re:Honesty has its virtue by rectalfeeding · · Score: 1

      So as you already indicated, they were all criminals because they were doing these things anyway, so now it's okay to just make it legal to do them?

      Its illegal to tar and feather public officials, so should we do it anyway, and then see if we can get them to vote to make it legal?

      That was almost coherent. My point, if indeed you are truly struggling to understand it, is that in the big picture, it matters less what the law is, and more how most people understand what is going on regardless of the legality. I think this issue is one of a set of issues that are very important to how human society is going to function for the next hundred years. If this potential-law had been stopped, *for the right reasons*, then sure, that would have been the better outcome. If it had been stopped *for the wrong reasons* (i.e. absent a better public understanding of what the real long term worst dangers are), then it may well have led to a worse outcome than the present situation.

      Also, you appear to be what I would classify as a "criminal status fetishist". Have you ever exceeded the posted speed limit? If you can grok, please try to work more nuance into your sentiment in the future.

    3. Re:Honesty has its virtue by rectalfeeding · · Score: 1

      Sort of. When they're doing it all cloak and dagger, they have two fairly strong restrictions: 1) A slap on the wrist if anyone finds out. 2) Inadmissible in court.

      When they're doing it in public, they only have the one restriction: That a judge sign off on it.

      1) you seem to have some contradiction there between "fairly strong restriction" and "slap on the wrist if anyone finds out"
      2) They invented "parallel construction" some time ago.

      Countries like Russia, China, etc.. hell even friendly countries like Canada or the UK.. should be super annoyed with this though as the FBI is effectively claiming jurisdiction over their most-definitely-not-American computer systems (and the citizens operating them.)

      I go back to my original point- They were going to do the hacking anyway. They have been doing the hacking anyway. The right answer for foreign governments and populations is the same right answer as for domestic citizens like myself- Don't leave my doors unlocked, my windows open, or my telecommunicated data unencrypted, or the devices i purchased and 'own' in a state where they can be hacked and used in ways I would not consent to.

  6. Sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "jeopardize the privacy rights of innocent Americans and risk possible abuse by the incoming administration of President-elect Donald Trump"

    But it was just passed by the current administration. So the ones that want to "jeopardize the privacy rights" would be the current administration. But now the current administration will cry foul. But if their person won they would most likely just let this pass with no issues and not said a word.

  7. Expect absolutely no outcry from this by burtosis · · Score: 1

    Until the first batch of senators, congress critters, or other high officials or combination thereof suddenly gets thier dirt exposed and leaked via the FBI.

  8. Just Grant My Damned Warrant by tomkost · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, this is a big privacy blow. Probably the biggest in quite some time. Maybe the largest since the Patriot Act. And yes, there will be little outcry because most people don't even know or care what this means. But what will no doubt happen is the fed will shop around until they find the judge who grant them every warrant they want. Which they will no doubt find several if not more. This should be called, "Just Grant My Damned Warrant"

    1. Re:Just Grant My Damned Warrant by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      It is called finding a judge who will "cooperate with" and "work with" the FBI.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    2. Re:Just Grant My Damned Warrant by tomkost · · Score: 1

      ya, and that probably describes more than half of them.

    3. Re:Just Grant My Damned Warrant by laurencetux · · Score: 1

      Trust me the FBI buys scotch by the pallet/barrel so finding a judge is easy

    4. Re:Just Grant My Damned Warrant by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      They just want what the NSA, GCHQ and CIA have had for decades, total access to every network to find the interesting people.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  9. Democracy Cannot Happen With A Tilted Hand by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    If the FBI is now a republican proxy, how will the Democrats make plans?

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
    1. Re:Democracy Cannot Happen With A Tilted Hand by rmckeethen · · Score: 2

      That's an awfully good question.

      My best guess -- there will be an extended period of whole-hog persecution of Democrats for, well, being Democrats, and Republicans will get a pass from the newly politicized FBI. Afterwards, I expect Republicans will dial it down a bit, lest it become too obvious that they're using law enforcement directly as political tool. If I were a Democrat, I'd plan for two years of sitting around with my thumb up my ass, because at this point I don't believe the Republicans will let Democrats stand in the way of any of the massive number of changes Republicans want to implement A.S.A.P.

      However, given the hyper-partisan environment we're in now, I wouldn't want to lay money on which way things will ultimately go. It could be that Republicans find they actually like jailing political opponents, and that authoritarian rule by a single party is just what the doctor ordered. In that case, Americans can likely kiss democracy goodbye. I suspect many Americans, both Republicans and Democrats, would be happy to chuck democracy in the shitter right now, provided of course that their party is the one that retains power afterwards.

  10. TILT GAME OVER by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 1

    Please re-submit news article describing legislation going into effect without clumsily trying to re-cast it as a Donald Trump issue. I hope everyone can see how banal it is. So if Hillary had won, these Orwellian rule changes would have triggered chirping bluebirds instead?? People will tire soon of the press finding new ways to take the 'passive' out of passive-aggressive.

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  11. NO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    All three branches of the government have failed to do their jobs.

    Despite what any agency or congress or the courts say, the "laws" they pass are still subordinate to the U.S. Constitution. No "law" has the power to override it.

    I encrypt the hell out of everything and I will never change that practice. If government wants the data, they must obtain a true warrant and I will decrypt it for them.

    1. If government wants the data, they must obtain a true warrant and I will decrypt it for them.

      Even then it seems that you can tell them to go piss up a rope. They can confiscate the device/storage with the warrant but you don't have to give them the password. They then can try to crack it before the heat death of the universe.

      --
      Time to offend someone
  12. IP Geolocation is not a science! by ramriot · · Score: 2

    Just thought I would point that out to any passing FBI operative who thinks that they can go interfering with remote devices without considering international borders.

    You may just find yourself falling foul of international treaties initiated by your own government that class this sort of action as cyber-warfare. I just hope the government above the target of your hack is understanding and decides not to retaliate with physical force to your electronic attack.

    I for one would find it an interesting exercise in jurisprudence for the FBI to be indicted in a foreign court for cyberwarfare.

    1. Re:IP Geolocation is not a science! by Freischutz · · Score: 1

      Just thought I would point that out to any passing FBI operative who thinks that they can go interfering with remote devices without considering international borders.

      You may just find yourself falling foul of international treaties initiated by your own government that class this sort of action as cyber-warfare. I just hope the government above the target of your hack is understanding and decides not to retaliate with physical force to your electronic attack.

      I for one would find it an interesting exercise in jurisprudence for the FBI to be indicted in a foreign court for cyberwarfare.

      I think we can rely upon president Trump to tear up every last one of those treaties.

    2. Re:IP Geolocation is not a science! by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      I for one would find it an interesting exercise in jurisprudence for the FBI to be indicted in a foreign court for cyberwarfare.

      Or for Quantico, VA to be bombed in retaliation...

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    3. Re:IP Geolocation is not a science! by EmeraldBot · · Score: 1

      Just thought I would point that out to any passing FBI operative who thinks that they can go interfering with remote devices without considering international borders.

      You may just find yourself falling foul of international treaties initiated by your own government that class this sort of action as cyber-warfare. I just hope the government above the target of your hack is understanding and decides not to retaliate with physical force to your electronic attack.

      I for one would find it an interesting exercise in jurisprudence for the FBI to be indicted in a foreign court for cyberwarfare.

      If I may point out, however, Russia and China engage in this venue quite frequently, and neither has received much push back from the USA. Assuming they consider it a legitimate manner of investigation, they probably wouldn't care, and given that they're the only two countries capable of doing anything other than lodging a complaint, I don't think the FBI is going to be very reserved in the use of its new found power. Particularly against those domestic terrorists, the Democrats...

      --
      "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
  13. Thank goodness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Thank goodness that Obama is still president and can veto this change. Or perhaps he never signed it into law and the author of the story is incorrect? Obama would never have authorized this. This is horrible. So we can safely assume Obama will have a chance to veto this before it gets passed. Before those damn rethuglicans get into power and ram it through.

    Thanks Obama! Thanks Democrats!

  14. USA sets precedent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So it would not be unreasonable for any other government in the world to do the same. All computers in the USA are fair game to every other country's government. Completely legal.

  15. Well by DaMattster · · Score: 1

    Thank gawd I use OpenBSD and host my own web, email, and cloud services. Let the FBI give it a go against one of (if not the) most secure operating systems out there.

    1. Re:Well by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      They don't have to get into your OS when they own all the SSL keys and intercept and compromise hardware before it reaches your door.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    2. Re:Well by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      That's TAO/NSA not FBI...

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  16. Security is an illusion by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    I have canceled more things than I've submitted for that exact reason.

    They could have read it right off your keyboard anyway. By far the easiest place to monitor communications is at the unencrypted endpoints. If you don't want anyone to know what you're thinking, don't say it, don't enter it into a computer in any form, and don't write it down. That'll protect you. For at least a little while longer, anyway.

    "Two people can keep a secret -- if one of them is dead."

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Security is an illusion by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      yup.

      Works even better if you have a reputation for blurting everything out.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    2. Re:Security is an illusion by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      There's just too much volume to track all the content everywhere. That's why they install keyloggers that look for users hitting the Cancel button on posts over a certain length. If people are having second thoughts about something then you know it's the juicy stuff.

    3. Re:Security is an illusion by hlavac · · Score: 1

      Thats exactly what happens in Google search. Trace the HTTP requests as you type ;)

    4. Re:Security is an illusion by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

      There's just too much volume to track all the content everywhere.

      There are 350 million people in the USA, more or less. Including kids not of age to use computers. One computer, just one, operates at billions of instructions per second (when the code is written in anything efficient, like c.) The NSA has a newish huge data center located on the main trunks.

      You do the math. If you still think they can't sieve that amount of data effectively, why then, good on you for your optimism. :)

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  17. Please by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    Arguments of the form:

    A's assertion: "Joe never kicked the dog"
    B's response: "Larry did so kick the dog!"

    ...do B no credit at all.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Please by swillden · · Score: 1

      A's assertion was "Joe never kicked the dog therefore all Democrats are teh awesome"

      No, A's assertion was "Joe, who is a Democrat, never kicked the dog".

      The "all Democrats are teh awesome" part is something that you made up. You made it up because you WANTED him to be saying it.

      But he didn't, and you know it. This makes you a liar.

      Go back and read the thread.

      A said: Bear this in mind. A Democrat tried to save the dog! Democrat Joe tried to save the dog.
      B said: Steve and Jill are Democrats and they not only kicked dogs they wrote up laws to have them euthanized.

      Clearly, PopeRatzo was making a point about democrats, and used one (Wyden) as his example. When it was pointed out that other democrats suck on this issue, he tried to imply that that he was only talking about one of them, not trying to generalize. But his initial post was clearly attempting to generalize.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    2. Re:Please by swillden · · Score: 1

      A's assertion was "Joe never kicked the dog therefore all Democrats are teh awesome"

      Citation please? All I read was a comment about Wyden in particular.

      Go back and read the initial post. Here, I'll quote it for you:

      Bear this in mind: A Democrat tried to block the FBI from hacking any computer anywhere and a Republican tried to stop it.

      And yes, Democratic Senator Ron Wyden has been opposing this snooping...

      PopeRatzo was clearly trying to show that Democrats are teh awesome and Republicans are teh suck. In reality, both suck.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  18. Warrants not required by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    They are not allowed to hack my computer even IF THEY HAVE A WARRANT, because no warrant can be granted for a computer on foreign soil.

    I think what our courts would (eventually) say is that the constitution doesn't protect anyone, or anything, outside of the USA itself, and so no warrant is required in the first place.

    That's pretty much the entire basis our CIA was built upon.

    I'm not saying this is a good outlook; but I am saying it is the outlook.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  19. Did you say "current environment"? by mi · · Score: 1, Interesting

    in the current environment, there are a large number of readers who are likely saying "exactly!"

    You, guys, wanted the President to be a dictator as far back as 2010! So he could "do a lot of things quickly".

    And that is how history repeats itself.

    The law being discussed will be signed by Obama. Whom you elected.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Did you say "current environment"? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      And while I like a lot of what Obama has done, I disagree with him strongly on expanding the powers of the NSA/FBI instead of adding better checks on them. Of course, he's not solely to blame - there are a lot of people in Congress that deserve a good share of blame - but the buck does stop in the Oval Office as far as that's concerned. (Now if he vetoed it and Congress overrode his veto, I'd say his hands would be clean, but obviously that didn't happen.)

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:Did you say "current environment"? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      No, the buck stops with the voters who reliably reelect 97% of Congress and always elect republicans and democrats to the white house every time. Until that changes, nothing else will.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  20. This looney left meltdown is getting old by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

    I wish you people would be as concerned about the *actual* abuses by the Obama administration as you are about the *possible* abuses by the Trump administration.

    1. Re:This looney left meltdown is getting old by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      How far back to go to find the US gov/mil having an interest in all emerging domestic communications?
      SHAMROCK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... MINARET https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... (note UK help for the USA) ...
      Operation CHAOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ?
      COINTELPRO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ?
      What the Church Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... found?
      Main Core https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ?
      The Clipper efforts and crypto control, gov access https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Magic Lantern keystroke logging software and vendor cooperation.
      Stellar Wind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      Its all been collected and passed down for domestic use. Crytop offered by the big US brands is junk. Telco networks have to offer total access by design.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  21. Down ballot elections by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 2

    Bear this in mind: A Democrat tried to block the FBI from hacking any computer anywhere and a Republican tried to stop it.

    And yes, Democratic Senator Ron Wyden has been opposing this snooping since he entered the Senate in 1996, so no, it doesn't have anything to do with Donald Trump or President Obama.

    Yep.

    Taking $60 million from down-ballot campaigns and giving it to the Clinton campaign so she could defeat Bernie Sanders doesn't seem like such a good move now, does it?

    1. Re:Down ballot elections by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Taking $60 million from down-ballot campaigns [politico.com] and giving it to the Clinton campaign so she could defeat Bernie Sanders doesn't seem like such a good move now, does it?

      There's more where that came from.

      And now that every single thing that's going to happen in government after Jan 20 is squarely on the shoulders of the Republican Party and President-Elect Urinal Cake, they probably won't really need that much money.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  22. Re:Stop blaming Trump, you racists by J053 · · Score: 1

    There is no law. This is a change in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which are set by the Federal Courts, and will take effect unless Congress stops it. Sen. Wyden was trying to stop it, but failed. Get your damn facts straight.

  23. Snoopers charter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... jeopardize the privacy rights of innocent Americans ...

    Short version: This is the US version of the 'snooper's charter' that has become law in Australia and the UK.

    ... in any jurisdiction, potentially even overseas. ..

    The USA has claimed they own the internet for some time now and no-one's denied it. This is a logical journey down a slippery slope: Doubly so, if one thinks the USA should be the world police.

  24. Re:Stop blaming Trump, you racists by mi · · Score: 1

    Thank you for confirming, the controversy has nothing to do with Trump. Just as I was saying.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  25. And for the record... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    He's been against this crap when Clinton, Feinstein, Boxer, Obama, and others were all pushing or aquiescing to it as well!

    I really wish he was a Senator for my District because at least on tech issues and privacy he's on the same page I am.

    Related: Now that the FBI has broad ranging support for hacking anyone, how long do you think it will be until we find out about Trustzone/TPM/Management Engine/SEE hardware, and the assorted chains of 'untrustworthy' firmware being used to carte blanche hack everyone's system who wasn't smart enough to hold onto older hardware, ensuring that all session keys for each hop of your 'anonymized' connection have been compromised, in addition to the capability to hack your system to uncover your identity so they can punish you for your 'wrongdoing' (whether made up or not!)

    Society domestic and abroad has reached a truly dark point in our history, and not because of Trump (he's a symptom, not the cause sheeple!) but because people calling the shots at the extra-governmental level have all the pieces in play to allow takeover/enslavement of society, not through physical shackles as in the past, but through blackmail on a scale the elites of past generations could only have dreamed of. Getting out before the yoke is firmly lodged against our shoulders will be hard, but if you want any hope for yourselves, or even worse, your children, now is the time to act. We need legislature advocates, hardware designers/manufacturers and funders, people willing to pay more for secure and user controlled hardware (but not the 40-400x markup most current offerings have over the equivalent consumer systems!) If you can, avoid for-profit entities, if you can't, ensure the corporate charter is created to keep them independent, puts production above shareholders, and is funded entirely by sources without strings attached (except to produce hardware returning freedom back to the owner/user!)

    Liberty has always been a facade promised to use by our 'betters', but as of late the facade is wearing thin and the fascism and authoritarianism is once again rubbing through. Now is the time to scrape that underlying foundation away and replace it with the panelling of true liberty, not a cheaply made imitation.

    1. Re:And for the record... by CommanderRyalis · · Score: 1

      This is why I now vote 3rd party, I'm not voting for the Democrats because they're progressive liars, and I certainly won't vote for Republican "conservative"/regressive liars.

  26. Criminal activity by the US government? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    allow U.S. judges will be able to issue search warrants that give the FBI the authority to remotely access computers in any jurisdiction, potentially even overseas.

    And that doesn't violate my country's law...how exactly?

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20