Slashdot Mirror


John Glenn, First American To Orbit The Earth, Dies At 95 (npr.org)

BenBoy writes: John Herschel Glenn Jr. (July 18, 1921 -- December 8, 2016) was an American aviator, engineer, astronaut, and United States Senator from Ohio. He was one of the "Mercury Seven" group of military test pilots selected in 1959 by NASA to become America's first astronauts and fly the Project Mercury spacecraft. He passed away today at age 95.

113 comments

  1. Godspeed, John Glenn by sh00z · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ad astra per aspera.

    1. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Some people waste their lives, or never really accomplish anything. John Glenn was not one of those people.

    2. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by unixisc · · Score: 1

      RIP

      For some reason, when I first saw this, I was thinking of Buzz Aldrin, who left Antarctica after getting sick some days ago.

    3. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by sexconker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He was the meat that willingly crawled into said tin can. And you?

    4. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by networkBoy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Mind you, where several of said tin cans had exploded, crashed, or otherwise failed in a (fatal to the meat inside) way.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    5. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Godspeed, and may Perth light your way on your final journey.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    6. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      He was the meat in an automated tin can that went to the upper atmosphere. Some accomplishment.

      The tin can malfunctioned after the first orbit. He manually flew it for two more (of 7 planned). A little more than "meat," I'd say.

    7. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He was the meat in a semi-automated tin can that left the atmosphere and orbited the Earth three times before returning after nearly 5 hours.

      If you are going to denigrate someone's legacy, at least take the time to target their achievements and not those of another (Alan Shepard, who, incidentally was the first person to manually control their "automated" spacecraft orientation).

    8. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2, Informative

      He was the meat in an automated tin can that went to the upper atmosphere. Some accomplishment.

      You don't even deserve to breathe.

    9. Re: Godspeed, John Glenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me too

    10. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by blindseer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I assume you were also a US Senator, an officer in the USMC, a US Navy test pilot and flight instructor, and a war veteran. This short list of accomplishments is far beyond being "meat in a can".

      He was also the first person to complete a transcontinental flight that averaged supersonic speeds. He had to refuel at subsonic speeds but the average speed through the coast to coast flight exceeded that of a typical rifle bullet. That is not an easy thing to do and is something for the record books.

      He is also the oldest person to date to go into space. He was a "payload specialist" where one could argue he was the payload. You might argue this accomplishment is simply being "meat in a tin can" again but just living to be 77 is an accomplishment, and he went into space at that age. If you live to be that old, and are willing to climb into a tin can that accelerates at about 9Gs, and live to talk about it for nearly 20 years then you might have some standing to claim this is nothing to celebrate.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    11. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by chipschap · · Score: 1

      He was the meat in an automated tin can that went to the upper atmosphere. Some accomplishment.

      John Glenn was a great man. You, on the other hand, are nothing.

    12. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      Spam has always been a little more than "meat,"

    13. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by blindseer · · Score: 2

      Some people waste their lives, or never really accomplish anything. John Glenn was not one of those people.

      I heard a variation on that that went something like, "Most people wonder if they've made the world better than they left it, a Marine is not one of those people."

      Semper Fi, Colonel, you are relieved of your duties.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    14. Re: Godspeed, John Glenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But of course a marine would not wonder if they made the world a better place. They have the capacity to question their actions cut out by training very, very early on.

    15. Re: Godspeed, John Glenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was the distant second Yuri Gagarin.

    16. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by quenda · · Score: 1

      "Most people wonder if they've made the world better than they left it, a Marine is not one of those people."

      Marines kill and destroy without asking questions. Whether that makes the world better or worse is out of their control.
      You can be a hero and kill a hundred Japs, only to capture an airstrip that is never used.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Or worse yet, be on the aggressor side and lose.
       

    17. Re: Godspeed, John Glenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Capturing an airstrip that is never used includes the fact that the enemy was denied use of it.

    18. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hail and farewell.

    19. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      I find your lack of faith disturbing.

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    20. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It malfunctioned? Did that malfunction include the heating system? Would you say that he was "a meat popsicle"?

      (Just a Fifth Element reference, not trying to make light of his accomplishments.)

    21. Re:Godspeed, John Glenn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was the meat in an automated tin can that went to the upper atmosphere. Some accomplishment.

      As opposed to fatty meat, like you, just sitting around in your mom's basement. Got it.

  2. I remember... by surfdaddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I remember as a kid of 5 in kindergarten seeing crude animation live on TV as John Glenn orbited the earth. I also remember his return flight on the Shuttle when he was in his late '70s. In between he was a Senator. What a magnificent American and human being. Why don't we seem to see more of those types of people in public life today?

    1. Re:I remember... by olsmeister · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not to mention the first cross country supersonic flight. The man had balls of steel.

    2. Re:I remember... by robinsonne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because now we're so risk-averse we can't even let kids play in the park by themselves without the parents getting arrested.

    3. Re:I remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at how the media works today, politics or celebrities. Who wants to be a part of that feces fight unless you are a attention whore?
      As a regular citizen, you can't even comment on events in front of a camera without people tearing you apart, who wants that?

    4. Re:I remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was his life at risk, not the enigneers.

    5. Re:I remember... by jonnythan · · Score: 2

      Because the public doesn't care about them. There's no space race going on today. There are no commies to compete with. There are no new worlds to explore.

    6. Re:I remember... by fsagx · · Score: 4, Funny

      balls of steel.

      That's a common misconception. His balls were actually made from glass fibers embedded in a custom high-temperature resin.

    7. Re:I remember... by The_Rook · · Score: 1

      he risked his life on what was little more than a modified icbm; one that could explode if you looked at it funny.

      --
      when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
    8. Re:I remember... by networkBoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      balls of steel.

      That's a common misconception. His balls were actually made from glass fibers embedded in a custom high-temperature resin.

      With a Mylar skin.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    9. Re:I remember... by erapert · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or expose college students to ideas that they disagree with without also providing them a safe space and reassuring them that those nasty people over there are definitely mysogynistic racist bigoted homophobic nazis and nobody likes those guys at all and you're so special, little snowflake.

    10. Re:I remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is worth noting that many of the students demanding their "safe spaces" have been the "mysogynistic racist bigoted homophobic nazis" objecting to teachers challenging their worldview:

      http://www.revelist.com/us-news/liberal-professors-the-watchlist/5965

      The "safe spaces" idea is a generic rejection of challenge, and is not really associated with one worldview or another.

    11. Re:I remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't we seem to see more of those types of people in public life today?

      Considering we just got Trump into office the trend is changing. Great people are doing great things.

    12. Re:I remember... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 0

      How does being inside a vehicle make you a magnificent human being? More than the engineers that designed the craft? The technicians that built and maintained it? The scientists that made it possible at all? The community workers feeding the poor?

      He was a passenger. So what?

      You don't deserve to breathe.

    13. Re: I remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes you think that's not just pushback? "Well if the liberals want to keep doing this, how about we show them how silly this behavior really is"

    14. Re:I remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That site is more cringey than anything I've seen on Breitbart.

    15. Re:I remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How was this not modding through the fucking roof +funny? I may have woken my kids up laughing at this.

    16. Re: I remember... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it isn't, it is a fight over lost privileges, and not a "pushback".

      The white, blue collar man has been replaced by the China laborers, and the white white collar man is losing out in the office to women and color.

      That's what the pushback is about.

    17. Re:I remember... by coastwalker · · Score: 1

      Nonsense, you have new heroes. Fine upstanding American consumers to look up to like the Kardashians and Trump - did you see his diamond encrusted gold door? Keep drinking the Kool aid dummies.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    18. Re:I remember... by peetm · · Score: 1

      Or expose college students to ideas that they disagree with without also providing them a safe space and reassuring them that those nasty people over there are definitely mysogynistic racist bigoted homophobic nazis and nobody likes those guys at all and you're so special, little snowflake.

      Hear hear!

      --
      @peetm
  3. Space cowboy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Back when safe space travel was really a wing and a prayer. Sail on brave soul.

  4. Misses the big points. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Informative

    John Glenn wasn't just "one of the Mercury astronauts." He was the first American to orbit the earth, as well as the last Mercury astronaut to die.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:Misses the big points. by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Health benefits of leaving the planet confirmed!

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    2. Re:Misses the big points. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Plus the oldest person to be shot into space, and the only payload specialist (on that flight) that I know of that was his own payload (his job was to see how space flight affects old people).

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Misses the big points. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, the troll actually contributes! Wonders will never cease!

    4. Re:Misses the big points. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From your link:

      "Senators Glenn and McCain were cleared of having acted improperly "

    5. Re:Misses the big points. by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Health benefits of leaving the planet confirmed!

      Lived to 95. That ain't so bad.

    6. Re:Misses the big points. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Considering that the Apollo astronauts had a higher than normal risk of cardiovascular disease, leaving the protection of the earth's magnetosphere kind of f*cks you over.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    7. Re:Misses the big points. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Wow, the troll actually contributes! Wonders will never cease!

      No, you didn't. You never have. Stop being a moron, it gets old really, really fast.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    8. Re:Misses the big points. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > John Glenn wasn't just "one of the Mercury astronauts." He was the first American to orbit the earth, as well as the last Mercury astronaut to die.

      Last of the "Mercury Seven". Jim McDivitt, Buzz Aldrin and Mike Collins are still among us and all flew during the Mercury program. There may be others as well, those are the three I recall from memory.

    9. Re: Misses the big points. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might be thinking of the 2 man Gemini capsule when you state : Mercury Seven". Jim McDivitt, Buzz Aldrin and Mike Collins are still among us and all flew during the Mercury program. None of them flew in Mercury. Side note: The Gemini was nick-named the "Gusmobile" cuz only the shortest Mercury/Gemini astronaut could get in un aided

    10. Re: Misses the big points. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - Gus Grissom who died on the pad in the Apollo 1 fire.

    11. Re:Misses the big points. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Let's not forget that one of the original Mercury 7 (Deke Slayton) was grounded for a heart murmer and never flew a Mercury mission. The other original 7 were Scott Carpenter, Gordon Cooper, John Glenn, Gus Grissom, Wally Schirra, Alan Shepard. Only 6 flights were made in Project Mercury.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    12. Re:Misses the big points. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      okay, TWO traded votes!

    13. Re:Misses the big points. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And that makes him a bad astronaut?

      Same logic as getting a blowjob makes a bad president...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  5. Sponsored Content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When ads get through Ublock and Scriptblock, it's time to go.

  6. Full life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Few people could dream of comparing to what he accomplished, exploring to the very end..

  7. Re: 2016 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Well, the presidential election turned out fairly well; despite the objections of a few loudmouth idiots - so that's a good start!

  8. Re:2016 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FWIW,. they finally stuck that rocket landing on a barge at sea. You did well if you were in the stock market. That's all I got.

  9. This was a hero by Lucas123 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    John Glenn was a U.S. Marine fighter pilot who flew 59 combat missions over the South Pacific during WWII and 63 combat missions during the Korean War. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for heroism or extraordinary achievement six times! In Korea, he got the nickname "magnet ass" because he attracted so much enemy flak on his missions.

    Oh, and then he went on to become a test pilot, the first American to orbit the Earth, a U.S. senator and then the oldest man to go into space.

    He stopped flying planes at age 90.

    "The most important thing we can do is inspire young minds and to advance the kind of science, math and technology education that will help youngsters take us to the next phase of space travel." John Glenn.

    If you're looking for someone children can look up to, he's it.

    1. Re:This was a hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AND a criminal who was let off.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    2. Re:This was a hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're looking for someone children can look up to, he's it.

      (sigh) If only he wasn't a white male...

    3. Re: This was a hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but being an S and L crook cancels all that out.

    4. Re:This was a hero by cfsops · · Score: 2

      If you're looking for someone children can look up to, he's it.

      Absolutely. Someone that anyone can look up to. I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem that we are able to make people like that anymore.

    5. Re:This was a hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      From YOUR link:

      "Senators Glenn and McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment"."
       
        Apparently there wasn't enough evidence that suggested he had actually done anything. This was in the days before scandals were overlooked so easily as well, so it's likely there really wasn't any evidence.

    6. Re:This was a hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...but at least we have Diversity!

    7. Re:This was a hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was Kennedy's Boy, nothing was ever made of his war record until after he survived his space trip (third American up, did one launch, and was the first of the 7 to quit), like it was depicted in the movie he got up the noses of the other Group 1 astronauts, notably silent after the Apollo 1 fire, guardedly quiet post-two shuttle crashes, was one of the two mil-uh-terry hee-roes not indicted in the Keating 5 affair (and he kept the money), was additional freight during a 1998 Space Shuttle mission...

      All these things are true too.

    8. Re:This was a hero by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ha - 'additional freight' in 1998...
      you would think that quitting after his 1962 ride MEANT something.
      gotta love them politics.

  10. Re: The accolades are over the top by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll add that my roomate also said the other astronauts (I don't remember their names) were the complete opposite.

  11. God speed, John Glenn by pr0t0 · · Score: 1
    --
    I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
  12. Re:The accolades are over the top by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Ah well, you have this one second hand anecdotal story, so clearly you must be right! Why not say he molested kittens in a pizzeria, just to make your journey to the fake news complete.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  13. Rest in peace. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mr. Glenn is now with Jesus in the infinity of space. Orbiting the Earth, the Moon, the Sun. He is very happy to be back on his endless space walk.

    1. Re:Rest in peace. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but... HE never walked. Ed White did that in Gemini 4 (first American walk) - a year AFTER glenn had QUIT NASA.

      FYI: there's no record of jebus space-walking before or after glenn either.
      And he'd have to be orbiting the Moon, which is orbiting the Earth, which is orbiting the Sun, to be recorded as doing it all at the same time.
      And he's not happy about anything. he's dead. lights out. battery = 0V. snuffed.

  14. I was fortunate to have met him a few year ago by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I took my daughter to the Smithsonian Air and Space museum when she was 7. John Glenn was there on his birthday showing some people around. I think he had turned 89 or 90 and he really could move around quickly. He was very friendly and I was able to get a picture of him with my daughter. She was so excited to have been able to meet an actual astronaut. My wife and I got a chuckle out of the young security guard that was with him. When people asked who he was, he said that he was the worlds oldest astronaut.

    1. Re:I was fortunate to have met him a few year ago by Solandri · · Score: 1

      My wife and I got a chuckle out of the young security guard that was with him. When people asked who he was, he said that he was the worlds oldest astronaut.

      You misunderstood what the security guard meant. Glenn was the oldest person to ever go into space when he flew aboard Discovery on STS-95 in 1998. He was 77.

    2. Re:I was fortunate to have met him a few year ago by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 2

      You misunderstood what the security guard meant. Glenn was the oldest person to ever go into space when heÂflew aboard Discovery on STS-95Âin 1998. He was 77.

      I understood him perfectly well, and knew exactly what he meant. It's just a difference in the way different generations think of someone. It's similar to how people remember Ron Glass. Even though I watched Firefly, I remember him more from watching him play Detective Ron Harris on Barney Miller. My younger friends have no idea what Barney Miller was.

  15. People in space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Pffft. That's preposterous! Another step closer to moving past this 'round-earth' propaganda that's been spreading since the 60s.

    Wake up sheeple!!!

  16. A great man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used to be a blind beggar in the streets until John Glenn saw me and said, "Lo, come forth thou wretched cripple, and I shall heal thee." He touched my eyes with his hand, and suddenly I could see, only in X-ray vision. It must have come from all that radiation he absorbed in space.

  17. Re:2016 by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

    Has anything happened this year that hasn't been an unmitigated disaster?

    The Juno spacecraft reached Jupiter.

    Scientists found the gene that is linked to ALS, which gets us one step closer to eliminating it.

    Scientists also got us one step closer to a cure for HIV in 2016.

    Cleveland finally won a championship in a major-league sport. Scientists predict this will not happen again for ~750 million years.

    That's all I got.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  18. Re: The accolades are over the top by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coming from someone with a space nutter username like yours, I would expect no less.

    I just think the accolades on Slashdot are worded in a way that is very much over the top, that's all.

  19. Re: The accolades are over the top by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BTW, I realize you may have misinterpreted my post. I was referring to the young women who worked as camp counselors, not the kids attending camp (although the age difference typically wasn't that large).

  20. Re:2016 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cleveland finally won a championship in a major-league sport.

    And then the Indians go and blow a 3-1 lead in the World Series.

  21. Re:2016 by Daetrin · · Score: 2

    Miyazaki announced that he was coming out of semi-retirement (again) to do another feature film.

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  22. Re:2016 by ZipK · · Score: 4, Informative

    Has anything happened this year that hasn't been an unmitigated disaster?

    Cubs win world series.

  23. Re:2016 by ZipK · · Score: 1
  24. planet earth is blue by GungaDan · · Score: 1

    ...

    --
    Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
  25. He should have stayed out of politics... by bobthesungeek76036 · · Score: 2
    --
    Karma: Bad
    1. Re:He should have stayed out of politics... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keating Five

      The next four years are sure going to be one hell of a ride. Godspeed.

  26. 1998 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    John Glenn was my hero growing up as a little kid. I remember watching the Discovery launch in 1998 while I was in school. For art class one year I made an astronaut suit (with the help of my parents). I had several VHS tapes about him. If it weren't for him I wouldn't have a lot of good memories as a child. Thanks John, not just for what you did for me, but also everyone else. RIP.

  27. I welcome our toddlers security drones overhead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because now we're so risk-averse we can't even let kids play in the park by themselves without the parents getting arrested.

    And someday soon it will be considered gross negligence to let your kid play in the park even with a pair of redundant personal security drones. And that's a good thing.

  28. You will love this story by p51d007 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ok, this will show my age... I don't really remember it, but my parents (who will NOT allow me to have it), have a photo of me during Glenn's historic flight. I was doing the "potty training" back in '62 and didn't want to miss the flight, so I grabbed my potty chair, brought it into the living room, sat it right in front of the television set (glorious old Zenith black & white 19" model) and we BOTH had a blast off. They have shown me the photo from time to time over the past 50 odd years. I'm just glad I grew up in the era BEFORE smartphones/youtube/social media, so I don't have THAT following me around like the younger generation does today.

    1. Re: You will love this story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You both shat your shit-collecting implement at the same time. Neat, congrats to the two of you on your "achievements".

  29. Re:2016 by Trogre · · Score: 1

    Against Miami?

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  30. You Insensitive Clod! by PPH · · Score: 1

    Cubs win world series.

    I'm from Cleveland.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re: You Insensitive Clod! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cleveland got to the World Series.

  31. Re:2016 by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

    I think we're only beginning to see the karmic backfire from that win. Clearly they didn't just sacrifice a few goats to overcome the curse -- given the other events of 2016, I think the Cubs (or their fans) made a deal with the Prince of Darkness himself or something.

  32. Does insight have to involve a deeper truth? by shanen · · Score: 1

    Most insightful of the comments that got the mod. More deserving if you considered the topic a bit more broadly, for example by appealing to the orange counterexample who is about to occupy the White House.

    I think the answers to your question largely revolve around economic models. Or you might prefer to see the situation in terms of the "military-industrial complex" that Ike warned us about, but I still think that's just another version of the money thing. I don't want to call it a "money problem" because I think problems should be defined in terms of solutions, and there is no solution for infinite greed, just as there is no final digit of pi. People like Trump will never have enough money.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:Does insight have to involve a deeper truth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're trolling again. Moderators, please!

  33. Re:Won't see US Decline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Liberal

    Sick burn!

  34. Fifth person* to orbit earth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but of course you have to prop it up by saying "First American", to make that space-race loss look a bit smaller.