Apple Warns Of Counterfeit Power Adapters and Batteries Following Lawsuit (9to5mac.com)

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Apple Warns Of Counterfeit Power Adapters and Batteries Following Lawsuit (9to5mac.com)

Posted by msmash on Tuesday December 13, 2016 @04:50AM from the fake-products dept.

Following a lawsuit revealed back in October in which Apple exposed an issue with a large percentage of fake Apple adapters being marketed as "genuine" online, today the company has posted an official warning to customers. From a report on 9to5Mac: The message, posted on the front page of the company's support webpage, warns customers that counterfeit power adapters and batteries could pose safety issues. The company also offers customers that might have had a recent battery replacement the option to bring in their devices to an Apple Store or authorized service provider to check if the battery is genuine.

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Nonsense by 110010001000 · 2016-12-13 04:53 · Score: 3, Funny

This is nonsense. I buy batteries for my Apple products all the time online and they all work fi
1. Re:Nonsense by Woldscum · 2016-12-13 05:03 · Score: 1
  
  Just changed the original battery in my 4s 3 weeks ago with a $15 amason kit. Zero problems and 3 day charges again.
2. Re:Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 05:20 · Score: 0
  
  You're derivative. Not funny.
3. Re:Nonsense by jellomizer · 2016-12-13 05:20 · Score: 1
  
  In a past life having to fix tektronics solid ink printers. I found that when people used non OEM products after a few months there is a problem that is out of warranty because it wasn't approved consumables used.
  This created a loose loose situation because we had to charge the customer for the fix and we tried to give them a discount who's was less then the vendor would pay us. So the customer felt ripped off and we didn't get the most for our services.
  These devices run on tightly controlled parameters and the third party reversed engendered solution often will work for a while while slowly causing harm.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
4. Re:Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 05:23 · Score: 0
  
  Cant read, can you?
  The article is about power adapters and cables, not batteries.
  Numerous teardown have shown that the counterfeit adapters are built of shit components
  without the safety circuitry included
5. Re:Nonsense by 110010001000 · 2016-12-13 05:26 · Score: 0
  
  So since the situation is so loose, they should tighten it up?
6. Re:Nonsense by 110010001000 · 2016-12-13 05:27 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  It says "Batteries" in the headline. DAMN, you just got OWNED sucka, 1990s style!
7. Re:Nonsense by 110010001000 · 2016-12-13 05:59 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Mommy! A man is being mean to me on the Internet!
8. Re:Nonsense by trevc · 2016-12-13 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  The important thing is you did the needful.
9. Re:Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 10:40 · Score: 0
  
  amason kit
  So you aren't just buying counterfeit chargers, you're buying them from a counterfeit Amazon? Are you getting Sorny and Magnetbox TVs this Christmas?
That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 04:53 · Score: 2, Interesting

If their sh*t uses a standard, but is custom enough that there can be a counterfeit, tells me they're doing it wrong. Embrace, extend, extinguish - be snobby about people with old computers, etc - hint Apple, not everyone lives in San Fran and throws away their $5k laptop each year. People need cords, and they'll buy cheap. That's not their problem, it's yours.
1. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 05:01 · Score: 0
  
  i understand where your comming from, but they may void support for devices if they find these things and void the worrenties if stuff happens because of hardware that may or may not be good for the device but can not be within there own controls and specs.
2. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by Opportunist · 2016-12-13 05:08 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Want to bet that those "counterfeit" products come from the same assembly line as the "genuine" ones?
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
3. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by guruevi · 2016-12-13 05:29 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  There is a reason some of those items are pricey. A well designed power supply includes large capacitors and a good heat sink and margin of errors and safeties for out of spec components, brownouts or spikes. There is also space on the circuit boards so the line voltage of 110/220VAC doesn't become part of the rest of the circuit.
  Some of these counterfeits actually run components that are underpowered (e.g. a 3A regulator will often do 5A as long as you have thermal capacity), are simply removing capacitors and fuses to save costs. Also they often put up UL certificates without owning them and have traces that are both too thin and too close so as to become a safety issue under stressed conditions.
  
  --
  Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
4. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 05:33 · Score: 1
  
  If their sh*t uses a standard, but is custom enough that there can be a counterfeit, tells me they're doing it wrong.
  First of all, what the hell are you talking about when it comes to standards? Every computer company uses a different charger. I dare you to plug in an HP charger into a Dell (that's if the connector even works). Second, it doesn't matter if Apple or Dell follows a standard, the counterfeit chargers won't follow one which is the point.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
5. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 05:33 · Score: 0
  
  Since the assembly line runs 24x7, if they did come from the same line, they came from the reject bin.
6. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 05:37 · Score: 1
  
  There is a reason some of those items are pricey. A well designed power supply includes large capacitors and a good heat sink and margin of errors and safeties for out of spec components, brownouts or spikes. There is also space on the circuit boards so the line voltage of 110/220VAC doesn't become part of the rest of the circuit.
  Apple charges $80 for a charger. Even at a 200% markup, several large capacitors don't cost anywhere near $40, more like a lot less than $1. A power supply probably costs on the order of a few dollars to produce. The other $75 goes into Apples pocket.
7. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 05:38 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Based on teardowns of counterfeit chargers, I would say it is highly unlikely. The whole point of countefeits is to pass off as authenticate just enough to fool the buyer. If the chargers came from the same line they would be near full price as 100% of the money would go to the people who manufactured them off the books. They wouldn't be that much cheaper as they are technically authentic chargers.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
8. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  Since the assembly line runs 24x7, if they did come from the same line, they came from the reject bin.
  It's unlikely since most of the internals of these chargers are nothing like authentic ones. At best, the cases might be been pilfered from genuine lines but not the internals.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
9. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 05:52 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Have you looked at an Apple charger vs a counterfeit? A lot more engineering goes into an Apple made one; it's not about more capacitors.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
10. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Anubis350 · 2016-12-13 06:01 · Score: 2
  
  If their sh*t uses a standard, but is custom enough that there can be a counterfeit, tells me they're doing it wrong.
  First of all, what the hell are you talking about when it comes to standards? Every computer company uses a different charger. I dare you to plug in an HP charger into a Dell (that's if the connector even works). Second, it doesn't matter if Apple or Dell follows a standard, the counterfeit chargers won't follow one which is the point.
  Outside of the long business of selling multi-adapters, I'll point out that a lot of new laptops are moving to USBC for charging, so the different adapter thing may soon be a thing of the past
  
  --
  "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
11. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 06:02 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, HP chargers and Dell chargers are compatible across most of their lines.
  I do agree with your point, but lol at your specific choice of models.
12. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  Not in the models I used. They have the same connector but some of them were definitely incompatible as one minor spec might be off (correct voltage, incorrect amp). But that also applies to chargers from the same company.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
13. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by LunaticTippy · 2016-12-13 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  You don't have to pay for engineering every time you build a charger, you pay for it once. The marginal cost of each authorized charger is no more than a few dollars. Apple didn't become the richest company on the planet by selling chargers at cost.
  
  --
  Man, you really need that seminar!
14. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  You don't have to pay for engineering every time you build a charger, you pay for it once. The marginal cost of each authorized charger is no more than a few dollars. Apple didn't become the richest company on the planet by selling chargers at cost.
  When I mean engineering, I mean design and engineering. Apple didn't slap some wires together and sell them as chargers. There's a lot circuitry that has been engineered in each charger. Please tell me how much more in costs that Apple put into their charger over the counterfeit. I would bet you it's more than $1 that you assert. The boards alone cost more than $1 to manufacture. They are also likely machine soldered. The DAS05 chip alone costs $1.45 each retail from what I can tell. Sure you could get them cheaper when buying in thousands/millions but it's not going to make them pennies per chip.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
15. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by omfglearntoplay · 2016-12-13 07:25 · Score: 1
  
  That can't be right. I bought a little joystick for my ipad... and then I bought another one that was the EXACT same thing for about 1/6 the price.
16. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by thegarbz · 2016-12-13 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  That's not counterfeit, that's grey market. The two are very different. There is most definitely a grey market out there, but they can't compete with counterfeit products. In the case of chargers they literally have 1/5th of the components in them and that's before we even start talking about quality of components, design, safety margins etc.
17. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by thegarbz · 2016-12-13 08:14 · Score: 1
  
  The marginal cost of each authorized charger is no more than a few dollars.
  
  I can guarantee you the marginal cost of each charger is most definitely more than a few dollars. Even in order quantities of 10000 the components used in Apple's design are incredible in both quality and number.
  But hey feel free to burn your house down. I'm just here to hope that someone else understands that quality actually costs money.
18. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 08:16 · Score: 0
  
  If the chargers came from the same line they would be near full price as 100% of the money would go to the people who manufactured them off the books.
  
  What? Do you really not understand manufacturing and Apple products? The manufacturing costs of electronics are a small fraction of the price. For Apple products this is doubly true.
  Do you really think it costs near $80 to make a power adapter?
19. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 08:25 · Score: 0
  
  I think the following link is still relevant to the discussion:
  http://www.techspot.com/news/48747-is-apples-usb-wall-adapter-really-worth-29.html
  A 2008 Apple Power Adapter BOM (Bill of Materials) is/was less than 5 USD. And that would be for 1000 units: it's easy to imagine Apple getting a better price with millions of units built.
  This does NOT include, labour, assembly, casing, packaging and shipping costs...
  Looks like a hefty profit there to be made ;-)
  Don't get me wrong: If you own an Apple device, I still think it might be wiser to buy an original Apple charger instead of playing electric death roulette with one of those fake adapters just to spare a couple bucks.
20. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  A lot more engineering goes into an Apple made one; it's not about more capacitors.
  Reply to This Parent Share
  
  What? Engineering is a one time cost. Also, quite frankly, it's a freaking power adapter. Sure, it has microchips in it, but so what? The micro-controllers sells for around $2 at mouser electronics. In quantity, even less. http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntk=P_MarCom&Ntt=682250013 I can buy a damn entire Amazon Fire Tablet for $50 (which has FAR more engineering than a fancy power supply), and Apple charges $80 for a charger? Does this make sense to you?
  You seriously need to understand engineering and the costs associated with it. You're living in a fantasy world if you think the costs of a charger, including one-time engineering costs and some cheap microprocessors anywhere near justify the $80 price. The site you linked to is essentially an Apple wank-off site used to justify the high costs of apple products. The rest of the world is using power adapters that work perfectly fine, and they don't start fires, and they don't cost $80.
21. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  Except USB only allows 100W maximum power draw. There are many mobile workstations and gaming laptops that exceed this limit. I am on a laptop that uses a 200W adapter and I know a few that come with 300W.
22. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 09:04 · Score: 0
  
  Don't forget, those other chargers are faster and better. =P
23. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 09:08 · Score: 0
  
  If the chargers came from the same line they would be near full price as 100% of the money would go to the people who manufactured them off the books. They wouldn't be that much cheaper as they are technically authentic chargers.
  No, that's not the way modern manufacturing works. Plus that's not how manufacturing is done in China.
24. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 09:14 · Score: 1
  
  But hey feel free to burn your house down. I'm just here to hope that someone else understands that quality actually costs money.
  
  Odd... I've owned a good 30 computers over the years, none of which had power adapters that cost $80. And yet not one fire has started because of the power adapter. There's probably a billion other people that ALSO have power adapters right from mainstream manufacturers like Dell, HP, etc now plugged into a wall that cost maybe $30, and yet there's not stories about massive amounts of fires.
  Can you tell me what exactly I get for the extra $50, and (more importantly) why that justifies the cost? Please don't start with fires. We've already established that it's perfectly easy to make a safe power adapter that sells for $30.
  My supposition is that this is just Apple jacking up prices to increase profits. Nothing justifies the $80 price, except that warm fuzzy feeling Apple users get when they know they spent a lot of money on something.
  .
25. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 09:32 · Score: 0
  
  They have the same connector but some of them were definitely incompatible as one minor spec might be off (correct voltage, incorrect amp).
  If the amperage is the only thing off, one of your chargers is bound to work with at least two computers.
26. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 11:02 · Score: 0
  
  Having pried open quite a few both original and counterfeit Macbook power supply units, I’m going to go with ‘few’. The originals are built just way better, it’s day and night compared to the 20 € B-list parts. I’m not going to go over the list of components used in either, but suffice it to say, there’s often NO heatsink in the knockoffs, and they lack two thirds of the electronics that the originals have. It shows in performance, too. Some have sparked upon being connected, some have started to interfere with various components in the machine (one turned off the touchpad while connected – poorly grounded), etc. And they die a lot sooner.
27. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 11:27 · Score: 0
  
  Um, no.
  We're talking about cheap build quality counterfeits using the Apple brand to avoid having to build their own reputation.
28. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 17:28 · Score: 1
  
  The OP asserted that they came off the same line as authentic Apple chargers. If they did, then they should be indistinguishable from authentic ones which means they can be sold as real because they are real; they were merely unauthorized copies. Based on the teardowns I presented above, they are not likely from the same line.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
29. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 17:33 · Score: 1
  
  A 2008 Apple Power Adapter BOM (Bill of Materials) is/was less than 5 USD. And that would be for 1000 units: it's easy to imagine Apple getting a better price with millions of units built.
  A 2008 Apple Power USB adapter is also not the same as a current laptop charger. For starters, the USB Power Delivery 1.0 Spec wasn't drafted/approved until 2012 which means Apple chargers were one of the few to offer faster charging. I would submit that's why the Apple charger costs more than the Samsung one as it did not offer faster charging.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
30. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 17:38 · Score: 1
  
  What? Engineering is a one time cost.
  
  When someone says a lot more engineering went into something maybe you should look at the article where it explained it all
  
  Also, quite frankly, it's a freaking power adapter. Sure, it has microchips in it, but so what?
  Which cost more money to buy. Which cost more money to implement. Which ensures your $2000 laptop won't be fried by the charger.
  
  The micro-controllers sells for around $2 at mouser electronics.
  Feel free to retrofit your charger to use them then. While you're at it please redesign your boards to accommodate. I would guarantee it takes you more than 8 hours of your time.
  
  In quantity, even less. http://www.mouser.com/search/r... I can buy a damn entire Amazon Fire Tablet for $50 (which has FAR more engineering than a fancy power supply), and Apple charges $80 for a charger? Does this make sense to you?
  Then buy a Amazon Fire Tablet. If you want to gamble and get a cheap charger for your expensive laptop go ahead. Don't come crying to anyone when it fries your computer.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
31. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 17:45 · Score: 1
  
  What? Do you really not understand manufacturing and Apple products?
  I understand that if the OP's assertion is correct and that the chargers came from the same line as Apple several things would be true: 1) the internals would be no different than genuine Apple chargers. 2) Thus they for all purposes authentic Apple chargers. 3) They could be sold as authentic Apple chargers at full price because that's what they are. Please show how they would be different.
  
  The manufacturing costs of electronics are a small fraction of the price. For Apple products this is doubly true.
  Manufacturing is a small fraction of the price of most everything. What is your point?
  
  Do you really think it costs near $80 to make a power adapter?
  Strawman argument: I never said anything of the sort. Again my point: Based on teardowns of some counterfeit chargers, they most likely did not come off the same line as authentic Apple ones as their internals are much different. If someone managed to get a 4th shift to make Apple chargers using Apple lines, they were be authentic chargers that were merely unauthorized copies.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
32. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 18:03 · Score: 1
  
  Strawman argument: I never said engineering costs raise the price to $80. I said that it costs more than "several large capacitors". Please show me in your engineering principles how it costs Apple only $1 more to make their charger. I will guarantee you that one of the ICs that Apple used and the fake did not is at least $1 price difference. And Apple used multiple ICs which are not on the fake. In mere parts alone Apple's charger has more than $10 worth of parts over the fake. That does not include assembly and design costs. Please show in engineering principles how this is not true.
  
  The site you linked to is essentially an Apple wank-off site used to justify the high costs of apple products.
  
  Please point to one thing that the site said which was not true. The blogger broke down counterfeit and genuine chargers. He identified major components of both. He showed flaws in how the counterfeits were made. All of these were sound engineering design problems. Which of these was incorrect (from an engineering perspective.) Yet for you it was a "wank-off" site. Is that your professional engineering opinion?
  
  The rest of the world is using power adapters that work perfectly fine, and they don't start fires, and they don't cost $80.
  If you don't want to spend $80 that's on you. If you want to pay for a counterfeit charger (which was the whole point of the article) that is dangerously made, that's on you.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
33. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-12-14 00:22 · Score: 1
  
  If their sh*t uses a standard, but is custom enough that there can be a counterfeit, tells me they're doing it wrong.
  http://www.mobilegeeks.com/samsung-fake-batteries/.
  
  The German magazine wanted to get to the bottom of this, so they decided to order 12 Samsung batteries. Four units came directly from Amazon, while the rest were ordered from other sellers. Again, all were advertised as original, from Samsung Surprise, surprise. It turns out all 12 were fakes!
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
34. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-12-14 00:33 · Score: 2
  
  You don't have to pay for engineering every time you build a charger, you pay for it once. The marginal cost of each authorized charger is no more than a few dollars. Apple didn't become the richest company on the planet by selling chargers at cost.
  Jesus fucking Christ, stop whining about EVUL APPEL and look at the fucking article already. Not only are those fake adaptors build completely different, they throw even the most basic safety standards of electrical engineering out the window and put the life of people plugging them in in danger.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
35. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-12-14 00:59 · Score: 1
  
  I think the following link is still relevant to the discussion: http://www.techspot.com/news/4... A 2008 Apple Power Adapter BOM (Bill of Materials) is/was less than 5 USD. And that would be for 1000 units: it's easy to imagine Apple getting a better price with millions of units built. This does NOT include, labour, assembly, casing, packaging and shipping costs... Looks like a hefty profit there to be made ;-)
  Well, an Apple USB wall adapter costs $19. The cheapest USB wall charger from Samsung is $29.99. Okay, unlike Apple's the Samsung one comes with a USB cable, but still, that's hardly less, now is it?
  I tried to find one over at Lenovo, but it looks they don't even sell phone chargers, only upward from a USB-C charger for their ThinkPad X1 Tablet. And that cost's $41.99.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
36. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-12-14 01:15 · Score: 1
  
  Odd... I've owned a good 30 computers over the years, none of which had power adapters that cost $80. And yet not one fire has started because of the power adapter. There's probably a billion other people that ALSO have power adapters right from mainstream manufacturers like Dell, HP, etc now plugged into a wall that cost maybe $30, .
  Maybe, but probably not. For entertainment purposes, I went over to Dell.com, and their cheapest notebook charger is $49.99. Not $30. The same $49.99 Apple's cheapest notebook charger costs.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
37. Re: That it matters, means that they've failed by Agripa · 2016-12-15 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  Want to bet that those "counterfeit" products come from the same assembly line as the "genuine" ones?
  Considering the abysmal reviews that many of Apple's chargers and port adapters get on their own web site, I would not be surprised.
38. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Agripa · 2016-12-15 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  Outside of the long business of selling multi-adapters, I'll point out that a lot of new laptops are moving to USBC for charging, so the different adapter thing may soon be a thing of the past
  It will just mean the product is locked to the manufacturer's adapter so you need a separate charger for every device, again. USBC includes provisions for DRM to limit which charger can be used; the first USBC ASICs which were advertised to me were for USBC charger authentication from NXP.
39. Re:That it matters, means that they've failed by Agripa · 2016-12-15 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  Except USB only allows 100W maximum power draw. There are many mobile workstations and gaming laptops that exceed this limit. I am on a laptop that uses a 200W adapter and I know a few that come with 300W.
  They could use more than one USBC charger in parallel. Except for Apple, Apple only gets to have one USBC port and just to be fair, it may only be used for one thing at a time.
fire Fire FIRE! by Thud457 · 2016-12-13 05:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

This is what happens when you outsource manufacturing to China.
Also, watch out for Amazon. Are there currently problems with counterfeits getting into the stream when fulfilled by Amazon? Or is it just their affiliates?

--
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
1. Re:fire Fire FIRE! by magarity · 2016-12-13 05:04 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Also, watch out for Amazon. Are there currently problems with counterfeits getting into the stream when fulfilled by Amazon? Or is it just their affiliates?
  They've fooled you with the "fulfilled by Amazon". That just means the seller shipped a pallet or whatever of stuff to Amazon's warehouse so their picker robot stuffed it in a box when you ordered it. Other than that, Amazon doesn't give a hoot what the item is. What you need to watch for is "Sold by Amazon, fulfilled by Amazon" if you want them to have any liability for the quality.
2. Re:fire Fire FIRE! by Freischutz · 2016-12-13 05:05 · Score: 1
  
  This is what happens when you outsource manufacturing to China. Also, watch out for Amazon. Are there currently problems with counterfeits getting into the stream when fulfilled by Amazon? Or is it just their affiliates?
  Huh? Outsourcing to China is OK as long as you don't skimp on quality assurance. This is what happens when you don't kick China and others like it in the nuts for allowing product forgers to run rampant.
3. Re:fire Fire FIRE! by queequeg1 · 2016-12-13 07:04 · Score: 2
  
  You can still get fakes if the order is fulfilled by Amazon, at least for some products. Affiliates who sign up for their "Fulfilled by Amazon" program can inject fakes into process if they have the same UPC as products purchased and sold by Amazon itself because they might all be comingled in the warehouse. I read somewhere (can't find the article right now) that these third parties are supposed to slap a sticker on their product identifying who was responsible for putting the specific item into the mixed inventory. So if your phone battery explodes, you might know which fly-by-night counterfeiter to blame (assuming you saved the packaging). Here's an article about the problem:
  http://www.wsj.com/articles/on...
Blame Apple for high prices. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 05:03 · Score: 0

A new 60 watt power adapter for a MacBook lists for $80. http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MC461LL/A/apple-60w-magsafe-power-adapter-for-macbook-and-13-inch-macbook-pro
By comparison, a lenovo power adapter, from Lenovo lists for $50, and is generally available in other retailers for $20. I've bought new adapters for my Lenovo, and they're identical to the original in every way.
So if Apple wants to start blaming someone for the problem of poor quality counterfeit parts, they should start looking inwards. Power adapters can't cost more than a few dollars to produce, and Apple charges mega-bucks for the damn things. That's a huge profit margin for counterfeiters even after they cut the price in half of what Apple is selling them for.
1. Re:Blame Apple for high prices. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 05:43 · Score: 0
  
  The Lenovo Adapters for $20 you mention... Are they really Lenovo or knockoffs? If the latter, have you disassembled them and compared them with the original?
  Just because they seem to work OK doesn't mean they are safe.
  I have a fake Apple iPhone charger here. It's lighter than the original and the power quality sucks, there is a lot of ripple under full load while the output of the original is still smooth.
  Ever had the problem that the touchscreen of your phone doesn't work properly while charging? It's not a good sign concerning the quality of the charger...
  As for power adapters can't cost more than a few dollars... That really depends on the quality you want. You want something small, noiseless (some of the cheaper ones whine), good power quality and long lasting? That's going to cost you.
2. Re:Blame Apple for high prices. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 09:10 · Score: 0
  
  I have in front of me about 15 chargers collected over the years from various vendors, qualtities, etc. Along with that, a huge variety of USB cables.
  Precisely 0 have given me issues in terms of actually charging. No issues at all until they break. (Charging speed, is of course, at a whim of the specs)
  If you have touchscreen issues because the phone either doesn't block bad charging or is constructed so poorly that somehow putting power into a battery has something to do with a digitizer? Sounds like shitty engineering work to me -- smoothing out ripples should be a few small capacitors, as any electrical hobbiest or engineer can tell you (or even a google: http://bfy.tw/90o7 )
3. Re:Blame Apple for high prices. by guruevi · 2016-12-13 09:25 · Score: 2
  
  A 60W DC-DC converter chip alone costs ~$10 and change in volumes of 100+ without the heat sink, coils, capacitors, wiring, casing, design, marketing, sales or profit.
  If your power adapter costs $20 your charger most likely is based on a reference design which is not even halfway complete.
  
  --
  Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Unfortunate by Thyamine · 2016-12-13 05:06 · Score: 2

This is what happens when people don't understand tech. No one wants to care how their devices work, they just hear battery and equate it to their favorite AA and away they go. Not understanding that there is more involved than that, they just but cheap when they need a new or extra cable. I can understand that, but then we have these sorts of issues.

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I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
1. Re:Unfortunate by Gilgaron · 2016-12-13 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think it is a matter of understanding if they're being defrauded by products that indicate they're equivalent when they aren't.
2. Re:Unfortunate by Thyamine · 2016-12-13 05:21 · Score: 2
  
  No I agree. I mean that people don't understand that cheap cables are a potential problem, regardless of if they say they are compatible or not. The lawsuit issue is that they are lying about packaging. My point is more that people have no idea that there is a real danger or problem, so they just think Apple is trying to gouge them. Which I'm sure the price is a huge profit margin, but there is a real benefit in this case outside of just the name on the package.
  
  --
  I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Radical+Moderate · 2016-12-13 05:06 · Score: 3, Insightful

...their customers this wouldn't be such a problem. I know, then they wouldn't be Apple. My cat chewed through my power cord one fine morning, I was able to fix it but forget about coiling it up and throwing it in my laptop bag anymore. A new one is $70. That's nuts. Are there any quality third-party vendors? I'm guessing patents on the mag-safe connector means NO.

And it seems like the reaming is just getting worse.

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Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
1. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 05:14 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  ... My cat chewed through my power cord ... A new one is $70. ...
  $70 for a new cat is WAY too much
2. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 05:16 · Score: 0
  
  ...which is why I source the Chinese knock-offs, _specifically._
  It's either that, or being rammed from behind, straight through my wallet.
  That hurts...
3. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by theskipper · 2016-12-13 05:55 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Agreed. Heck, Apple gave away Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion for free. And not to be outdone, Microsoft recently was begging folks to take their mangy alleycat that kept peeking into everyone's windows.
4. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by thegarbz · 2016-12-13 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  Are there any quality third-party vendors? I'm guessing patents on the mag-safe connector means NO.
  
  Maybe not for Apple, but there are for other companies. Guess what, $70 is still a pretty good ballpark for a decent charger. My Surface Pro charger was $80. When my $70 HP charger died I replaced it with the slim $90 version.
  As you can see I'm not a fan of Apple, but I will defend them on the pricing of their chargers. They won't burn your house down with your cat locked inside and are priced accordingly.
5. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 09:12 · Score: 0
  
  ...their customers this wouldn't be such a problem. I know, then they wouldn't be Apple. My cat chewed through my power cord one fine morning, I was able to fix it but forget about coiling it up and throwing it in my laptop bag anymore. A new one is $70. That's nuts. Are there any quality third-party vendors? I'm guessing patents on the mag-safe connector means NO.
  And it seems like the reaming is just getting worse.
  
  Then don't buy Apple products. They aren't necessary anymore, and the products are obsolete when they are purchased.
6. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by guruevi · 2016-12-13 09:16 · Score: 1
  
  No, $70 is about average for a good compact high power power supply. Just a good DC-DC converter chip costs ~$10 in large volumes, if your power supply costs less than the components it (should) be made out of, they're skimping on something and you can be sure that it won't be good for you.
  
  --
  Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
7. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 09:20 · Score: 0
  
  Uhm, you do realize that the Surface Pro charger is 36 watts and not 4-6 watts for a phone charger, right? There's a reason 450W computer PSUs are $60-100.
8. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Just+Some+Guy · 2016-12-13 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  A new one is $70. That's nuts. Are there any quality third-party vendors? I'm guessing patents on the mag-safe connector means NO.
  A month ago:
  
  Apple's getting rid of MagSafe and moving to industry standard USB-C charging? Those greedy bastards!
  OK, you in particular might not have been saying it, but the Internet as a whole was. I for one am thrilled that they're moving to a charging system based on parts I can order from Monoprice.
  
  --
  Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
9. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by OhSoLaMeow · 2016-12-13 10:40 · Score: 1
  
  I just got a new Apple charger for my wife. I think it was a pretty good trade.
  
  --
  They can take my LifeAlert pendant when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
10. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Radical+Moderate · 2016-12-13 10:54 · Score: 1
  
  Be careful about Monoprice. If you read down thread, there's more to the Apple charger--or any quality charger-- than one would expect. Apple's pricing isn't as outrageous as I had assumed.
  
  --
  Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
11. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-12-14 01:39 · Score: 1
  
  Uhm, you do realize that the Surface Pro charger is 36 watts and not 4-6 watts for a phone charger, right?
  
  Uhm, you do realize that an Apple phone charger doesn't even remotely costs $80? Oh, wait, you obviously don't.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
12. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Just+Some+Guy · 2016-12-14 03:58 · Score: 1
  
  You misunderstand: the new MacBook Pros charge via USB-C and not the proprietary magsafe connector. If the dog eats your cord, you can buy a new standard USB-C cable without running to apple, and the chargers themselves are stardardized so you can buy a non-Apple one of those, too.
  Sure, buy quality! But you're no longer constrained to getting it from a single vendor.
  
  --
  Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
13. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Radical+Moderate · 2016-12-14 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  I'd be wary of buying a "standardized" charger, but you make a good point about the cable;
  
  --
  Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
14. Re:Maybe if Apple didn't insist on reaming... by Just+Some+Guy · 2016-12-14 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  I wouldn't. Cautious, sure! But there are plenty of boring, reputable vendors for that stuff. I'd bet a Dell or IBM charger would be built like a brick, as an example. I'd feel OK with any reputable brand.
  
  --
  Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Warning! by Opportunist · 2016-12-13 05:06 · Score: 4, Insightful

Buying those counterfeit products could endanger our profit!

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
1. Re:Warning! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 05:37 · Score: 0
  
  Buying those counterfeit products could endanger our profit!
  Really, that's what you're going with?
  You even fucked up reading the original submission -- they're talking about NOT covering something that a vendor sold AS genuine that apple didn't make.
  Attempt to read. I assume you can and chose not to.
2. Re:Warning! by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 05:41 · Score: 2
  
  Buying those counterfeit products could endanger our profit!
  You do realize the only people hurt would be Apple customers right? They buy a crappy adapter; it fries their device. Will Apple replace the device? No as it would be clear that the customer used a 3rd party part.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
3. Re:Warning! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 06:52 · Score: 0
  
  Of course apple loves that. apple doesnt object to sell you more of their stuff, they object to be sued.
4. Re:Warning! by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 06:56 · Score: 2
  
  Why is it Apple's responsibility that a customer used a part that didn't meet specifications? Can you sue Lenovo if your really cheap charger fries your Lenovo laptop?
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
5. Re:Warning! by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-12-14 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  Why is it Apple's responsibility that a customer used a part that didn't meet specifications?
  
  Because everything is always Apple's fault. Jesus, get with it.
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
iPressure by Tablizer · 2016-12-13 05:13 · Score: 1

Apple has deep pockets. Hire top detectives, hunt them down, and sue their anterior sides off for both counterfeiting and safety issues.
If they are too small to sue, wreck the little factory at 3am and spread horse heads around as a warning. Hire locals to do the dirty work to protect the main company. "We pay you well to stop them. How you do it, we don't care and don't wanna know; just don't injure people. Understand?"

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Table-ized A.I.
Yeah by Sebby · 2016-12-13 05:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

Those counterfeit adapters always have cables that keep fraying.
Oh wait.... those are Apple's own expensive adapters fraying...

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AC comments get piped to /dev/null
1. Re:Yeah by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-12-14 01:52 · Score: 1
  
  Those counterfeit adapters always have cables that keep fraying.
  Oh wait.... those are Apple's own expensive adapters fraying...
  https://www.google.com/search?q=Dell+adapter+fraying&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDrNTf6fPQAhVMAsAKHdpGAUoQ_AUICSgC&biw=1472&bih=866
  https://www.google.com/search?q=HP+adapter+fraying&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDrNTf6fPQAhVMAsAKHdpGAUoQ_AUICSgC&biw=1472&bih=866
  https://www.google.com/search?q=Android+adapter+fraying&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDrNTf6fPQAhVMAsAKHdpGAUoQ_AUICSgC&biw=1472&bih=866
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
How to avoid fake hardware: by Gravis+Zero · 2016-12-13 05:58 · Score: 1

Do not buy products that make no attempt to conform to standards. This pretty much means all Apple products are out.

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Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
1. Re:How to avoid fake hardware: by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  Do not buy products that make no attempt to conform to standards. This pretty much means all Apple products are out.
  By that logic, you should never buy a laptop from any company. Their chargers for the most part won't work on all of the company's laptops much less competitor's laptops.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
2. Re:How to avoid fake hardware: by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 06:31 · Score: 1
  So if we only look at Dell laptop chargers, I count 8 different wattages. That does not include any variations in amperage.
  
  330W
  240W
  180W
  130W
  90W
  65W
  45W
  30W
  While one could use a higher wattage charger for a lower wattage one, it's not guaranteed that the amperage will be compatible. But that's Dell conforming to standards, right?
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Breakdown of countefeit vs genuine by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 06:08 · Score: 3, Informative
Here is the latest breakdown of a counterfeit from Ken Shirrif. He's been documenting them over the years. While counterfeits are getting better at looking genuine on the outside, their internals are noticeably inferior.
- Countefeit:
- The ground pin isn't connected to anything. It's not grounded at all so it's a major safety hazard.
- Lack of complex circuitry. There might be one IC controller chip if there are any chips at all.
- Hand soldered. Often the solder joints is also subpar and might be in such close proximity that a short can occur.
- Power quality is terrible with spikes
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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
1. Re:Breakdown of countefeit vs genuine by Radical+Moderate · 2016-12-13 07:48 · Score: 1
  
  Interesting article. I don't feel quite so bad about getting reamed on a new charger now, it is a pretty complex unit....and the counterfeits look pretty scary. Still, would be nice if Apple would drop the price a bit. After dropping one or two grand on a laptop, getting dinged to replace the power supply kind of sucks.
  
  --
  Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
2. Re:Breakdown of countefeit vs genuine by thegarbz · 2016-12-13 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  It's not grounded at all so it's a major safety hazard.
  That isn't necessarily the case. Well balance of probabilities this is most probably a safety hazard given some of the designs I've seen but lack of a ground pin especially on a DC-DC converter most certainly has nothing to do with safety, especially on a completely encapsulated device with an isolation transformer. Many Apple chargers are ungrounded too.
3. Re:Breakdown of countefeit vs genuine by guruevi · 2016-12-13 12:52 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is that they are missing things like isolation transformers. They are directly ran from the net, converted to 155-325 VDC (VAC * sqrt(2)) often with a single diode instead of a bridge, the transformer you may see could be a flyback to create a chopper but the isolation circuit between the PWM and the mains is often missing (who needs a $5 opto-isolator when a $0.25 transistor will do)
  I've seen circuits that are literally textbook circuits, those are barebones introductory to understand the operation of a SMPS, not intended as a proper designed circuit.
  
  --
  Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
4. Re:Breakdown of countefeit vs genuine by thegarbz · 2016-12-14 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  Yes and no. Most of the knock-offs have proper isolation transformers, and why wouldn't they, they are no more expensive than any other kind. The problem as you say is textbook circuits. They don't understand the concept of loop compensation, the details of designing for more than just the name plate standard value on the device, that layout is critical, or my personal favourite a ground plane. A big one. One that connects both sides of the isolation transformer :-)
  By extension there is nothing wrong with half-wave rectification. Some really well designed circuits use this technique too, but you have to know why you are doing it and what the impact is. These monkeys with a datasheet and a typical application picture don't.
  Also since when does an opto-isolator cost $5? When you don't care where it comes from it costs next to nothing. I don't think I've seen a knock-off that hasn't had an opto-isolator as well, but I'm sure they exist.
I made one for myself by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 06:21 · Score: 1

I only trust MYSELF with fake power adaptors. I took the end of an old MagSafe power adapter and, using a buck converter, got it to charge MacBook Pros directly from a 100 watt solar panel :) It's been working great for a year and a half. Nice CLEAN power at just the right voltage (20V) for my Mac.
I'd be scared to see what manner of non-Apple adaptors are out there though!
The problem is not counterfeit adapters by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 06:30 · Score: 0

but that Apple themselves sell 75 cents of parts for 75 dollars.
1. Re:The problem is not counterfeit adapters by UnknowingFool · 2016-12-13 06:48 · Score: 2
  
  While the price of the adapters is high, your assumption that adapters is made of 75 cents worth of parts is laughable. There's a great deal of engineering that goes into a genuine Apple charger. The board alone costs more than 75c to manufacture.
  
  --
  Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Customers don't care. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 07:15 · Score: 0

I work in a UK retail shop and we sell all kinds of chargers.
They are all 100% genuine and their price reflects this.
We had a Police/Customs raid in the main shopping centre down the road and loads of fakes were confiscated. These are typically £5 and we often get customers coming in with their dead cheapo chargers wanting a replacement.
They look shocked at the £15-20 price and some simply don't believe me when I tell them about the fakes.
Some even think that everything costs pennies to make and therefore they are somehow achieving something over the retail shops by buying cheap.
They really haven't a clue about how technology, design and quality testing works.
Getting quite tired of explaining that there are 'bad people' out there who simply don't care if they sell you a charger that could kill, hurt or burn your house down.
You spend £400+ on a hi-tech phone and £5 on the charger for it? Tough luck to those wallies I say.
Planned Obsolescence by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 07:27 · Score: 0

I bought a 100% licenced 3rd party power cable that was less than a millimeter larger than the official Apple cable which destroyed my charging port - I suspect this was by design - and I now own a $600 paper weight. At least the counterfeit ones might be built to the same spec as the official Apple cables.
it's all fake! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-13 07:46 · Score: 0

Fake news! Fake batteries! Fake adapters! This entire world is fake! From my fake friends to my fake smile... sigh (but my sigh was real!)