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Hotbed of Cybercrime Activity Tracked Down To ISP In Region Where Russia Is Invading Ukraine (bleepingcomputer.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Last week, WordPress security firm WordFence revealed it detected over 1.65 million brute-force attacks originating from an ISP in Ukraine that generated more malicious traffic than GoDaddy, OVH, and Rostelecom, put together. A week later, after news of WordFence's findings came to light, Ukrainian users have tracked down the ISP to a company called SKS-Lugan in the city of Alchevs'k, in an area controlled by pro-Russian forces in eastern Ukraine. All clues point to the fact that the ISP's owners are using the chaos created by the Russian military intervention in Ukraine to host cyber-crime operations on their servers. Some of the criminal activities the ISP hosts, besides servers for launching brute-force attacks, include command-and-control servers for the Locky ransomware, [email, comment, and forum] spam botnets, illegal streaming sites, DDoS stressers, carding sites, several banking trojans (Vawtrack, Tinba), and infostealers (Pony, Neurevt). UPDATE 12/22/16: The headline and summary have been updated to reflect the fact that Ukraine is fighting a Russian invasion, and is not in a "civil war," as mentioned in the source.

70 comments

  1. It's those pesky Russian hackers again! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those poor old Chinese hackers must be wondering what they did wrong for them to stop being blamed for absolutely everything.

  2. About time for some drone stikes by jfdavis668 · · Score: 0

    Don't doubt we will be hearing about them in the news in the near future. Whose drones? Who knows.

    1. Re:About time for some drone stikes by ISoldat53 · · Score: 3, Funny

      7-11 that's who

    2. Re: About time for some drone stikes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we need is a drone strike at the ISIS HQ in Pentagon and at the While House, which will incidentally also put an end to civil wars throughout the world.

    3. Re: About time for some drone stikes by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      They tried that already back in 2001. Didn't work.

    4. Re:About time for some drone stikes by mi · · Score: 1

      Russia has developed means to fool American drones — including the recently-supplied by the US analog Ravens.

      They aren't completely useless, but they don't rule the skies either.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  3. If this is true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is what is in stall for the rest of us if the reds take hold!

    1. Re:If this is true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In store! IN STORE!

      Jesus. And English isn't even my first or second language.

    2. Re:If this is true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In store! IN STORE!

      Jesus. And English isn't even my first or second language.

      i think they meant 'install' ;-)

  4. Makes sense by Dan+East · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Any time a country occupies another's territory they will employ its infrastructure and resources to further whatever objectives are profitable for the invading country. In the past it might be industries such as steel production, fuel production, mining of natural resources, plundering of various kinds of stockpiles, utilizing manufacturing to produce weapons and munitions to further increase the power of the invading country. Just because these days those resources can also take the form of technologies (such as internet bandwidth and processing power) it makes them no less valuable or exploitable.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Makes sense by quax · · Score: 2

      The difference now is, that in a world connected by the Internet, if anywhere law and order breaks down, it will affect the rest of the world.

  5. why is it always the russians by nimbius · · Score: 3, Interesting

    All clues point to the fact that the ISP's owners are using the chaos created by the Ukrainian civil war to host cyber-crime operations on their servers.

    or more likely the owners and staff were gunned down or driven off by the civil war, leaving the doors open and business office available for other sundry activities.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:why is it always the russians by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      or more likely the owners and staff were gunned down or driven off by the civil war, leaving the doors open and business office available for other sundry activities.

      And if that happened at AT&T/Verizon would it even make the news?

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    2. Re:why is it always the russians by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 4, Interesting

      All clues point to the fact that the ISP's owners are using the chaos created by the Ukrainian civil war to host cyber-crime operations on their servers.

      or more likely the owners and staff were gunned down or driven off by the civil war, leaving the doors open and business office available for other sundry activities.

      Possible, but not "more likely". In the past decade I spent a good amount of time in Ukraine and I've been to a lot of different parts of it, particularly in the Russian speaking parts. In fact, the last city I went to is now completely under control of rebels and airport I flew out of in Donnetsk doesn't exist any more. While I do still have mostly good memories of being there, I can tell you that in general the people in Ukraine are a lot less honest than you'll find by default in Western Europe. This is especially true in Russian speaking regions. I regard it as a holdover legacy of the Soviet Union and its collapse. The Soviet Union essentially legalized bribery by not caring enough to punish people who took bribes. And the collapse of the Soviet Union resulted in a bunch of greedy, low class Communist Party connected individuals who grabbed formerly state run businesses for pennies on the dollar and manipulated those into vast personal fortunes. So a lot of Ukrainians have learned that corruption is everywhere, nobody wants to stop it, and everybody who gets ahead cheated their way to the top. It could be that people who've always lived there are still there and exploiting the situation or it could be new people are exploiting it or this is being done to fund the Russian government sending weapons across the border. All I can say is that with the chaos and anarchy currently in that part of Ukraine that whoever is doing it is probably never going to be stopped by whoever is in charge as they're likely paying those people off.

    3. Re:why is it always the russians by Agripa · · Score: 1

      or more likely the owners and staff were gunned down or driven off by the civil war, leaving the doors open and business office available for other sundry activities.

      And if that happened at AT&T/Verizon would it even make the news?

      The rooms with the NSA gear to tap all AT&T communications made the news and nobody cared.

  6. What about a Kickstarter/GoFundMe campaign? by Required+Snark · · Score: 3, Funny

    How much is a delivered Tomahawk with the self guided air delivery option?

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:What about a Kickstarter/GoFundMe campaign? by oldcarsmell · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm sure our president-elect would be all for taking military action against his good buddy Vlad

  7. Diplomatic trouble by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    Bringing on international police cooperation will not work, as Ukraine does not control that territory.

    That creates a difficult diplomatic situation: in order to get a result, one country has to recognize the region's sovereignty. Or alternatively, one can blacklist the offending IPs

  8. Can't be Russia. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    LALALALALA cant hear you, Vlad would never do anything like this and wouldn't allow his people to do it either. Wouldnt want to make Vlad or his puppets mad. I wouldnt want to get my tea poisoned with thallium.

  9. Drop them from global routing by gweihir · · Score: 0

    Maybe that will send a message...

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  10. flatten the place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    with a GPS guided drone, do it at night to minimize casualties

  11. Trump to the Rescue... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like the Alchevs'k hackers, Trump too is "controlled by pro-Russian forces." After Trump deregulates cable and phone companies and abolishes net neutrality, consumers can expect

    * higher internet bills
    * worse customer service
    * fewer choices

    This will drive so many Americans off the internet that they won't need to worry about Russian hackers anymore!

    1. Re:Trump to the Rescue... by Talderas · · Score: 1

      consumers can expect

      * higher internet bills
      * worse customer service
      * fewer choices

      If American consumers with one choice of ISP have fewer choices then how can they have higher bills and worse customer service?

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  12. And now the USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Put your stooge into power, and all the resources of the USA become available too. NSA, CIA, ... you want to rig elections in 5 eyes? That should be easy given their exposed underside. Trump won't let the DHS secure networks in the next election, his hacker friends will be used to secure his position.

    Resources are exploitable.

    1. Re:And now the USA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After politically correct Democrats put USA into the ass and took half world with it - It may be good thing that Trump will stay for another term in power.

  13. Results of world policy by NuclearCat · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Don't be surprised, if everybody decide to demonize and ignore civil rights of some part of world for sake of "keep irritating russia" and "let's assume as humans only friendly to us dudes", definitely those in war zone will become even more rogue and do more and more nasty things.
    Keep in mind, skilled IT workers there, and they need earn for living, so for sure some of them will fall in hands of gangs.

    1. Re:Results of world policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry but "keep irritating Russia" ? You mean the country who invaded a sovereign country and annexed one part of the country while supporting those fighting a civil war for control of the rest of the country. Putin is a pathological liar who makes damn sure every media outlet in the country reports only what he wants them to report. He supplied the anti-aircraft missile battery to the ass hats who promptly used it to shoot down a commercial airplane. Russian troops get captured and paraded on TV and Russia throws them under the bus. Why are so many Russian soldiers fighting in the Ukraine? Well according to Putin they are all on vacation since he has not ordered them there. Oh and Putin's little adventure into Ukraine shows that giving up your nuclear weapons because you were promised military protection is utter bullshit.

      Russia is not a world power and all of Putin's "look at me antics" is just posturing from an ex-KGB officer pining for a return to the old USSR. To be a world power you need more than a bunch a nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons are already taken out of the equation because the MAD deterrent is still in effect. Their conventional forces are a shadow of what they once were. To be a world power you need a credible military and a lot of money. California has a higher GDP than Russia. Compared to the US and China the Russians are a 3rd world country economically.

      The Russians had 6 more of their wealthiest oligarchs black balled by the US last week. Any banking or finance related business providing finance services to those sanctioned will lose their access to the US financial markets. Meanwhile the US is working diligently at keeping the price of oil as low as possible which puts a real crimp in Russia's ability to generate hard currency.

      And why do people think Russian or Chinese hacking is something they do better than the US? You never hear Russia or China complaining about US hacking so there are several possibilities.
      1. The US is not capable of duplicating or surpassing Russian and Chinese hacking efforts.
      2. The US is just not conducting any offensive or defensive cyber intrusions.
      3. The US efforts are so successful that the Russians and Chinese have no idea what is compromised and what is not.

      I am pretty sure one or more US intelligence agencies could use some of their tools to make sure Russia understands the consequences of their actions. The most probable reason they have not retaliated in the cyber world is that they do not want to advertise their capabilities and save them for something more important.

    2. Re:Results of world policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So those banks that got hit don't count for anything? Russia stopped one hack but not the other.

      For the Ukraine, well, those people are ethnically Russian and that segment wants to be part of Russia. For Syria, it's the USA that started the whole mess and there are plenty of lies to go around there. Just how many times has the last hospital been destroyed, anyhow? It's not like manufacturing war crimes is even a new thing for us--you know, like the WMDs in Iraq.

      Nor are we really in any position to talk about overthrowing sovereign nations. That's basically what the CIA does. Interfering with elections? Plenty of times.

      If Russia even had anything to do there--and I note that we've been given no proof whatsoever there, just lots of anonymous rumors from the media--all they did was tell us the truth. I'd much rather be on Russia's side than Saudi Arabia and Qatar. You know, the people who stand to benefit from the murder of that Russian diplomat by the guy with ties to that cleric in exile in the USA after he tried to start a coup against the democratically elected government there. Who also just happen to be big donors to Clinton.

      But I'm guessing you haven't realized that CNN, the Washington Post & co. are effectively state media so you haven't looked beyond the simple stories they tell us of how our country is always the good guy that can do no wrong. Problem is, that's not exactly true of our leaders who are doing this kind of crap, even if the average American honestly doesn't want to be a giant dick to everyone else in the world. And it's not like they really cover all the things the CIA has been up to in history class (or at least, mine never did), they just focus on the civil and revolutionary wars and such.

    3. Re:Results of world policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry but "keep irritating Russia" ? You mean the country who invaded a sovereign country and annexed one part of the country while supporting those fighting a civil war for control of the rest of the country.

      Like the US wasn't involved in the putsch that installed a bunch of neo-Nazi fucknuts as the government of that 'sovereign' (a risible label if ever there was one in this day and age) country? Seriously, the west interfered in the Ukraine and installed a bunch of puppets who are out and out neo-Nazis in control of a country on the Russian border and they didn't expect the Russians to react? It all went according to script..Man, wake up and realise that the whole thing is one big thimblerig...

    4. Re: Results of world policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cor,your going to be popular with Americans,how dare you point out the truth to them.
      America,directly responsible for more deaths than anything else since WW2.
      But still think they have some right to interfere when ever,where ever they like,including at home in America..

    5. Re:Results of world policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like the US wasn't involved in the putsch

      Way to be US-centric, spout bullshit, and deprive the Ukrainian public of agency, at the same time.

      The putsch in Ukraine happened when Yanukovych, advised by Surkov and Putin, passed a set of "Dictatorship Laws" by fiat: http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/304796.html

      The EU tried to keep Yanukovych in power, but luckily, he was overthrown by popular revolution.

      that installed a bunch of neo-Nazi fucknuts

      Right, Ukraine's Jewish Prime minister, and civil rights activist/MP Dzhemilev are the head Nazis. Oh, and Jewish MP Bereza, is what passes for a Ukrainian Nazi, with Russia and its useful idiots. Seriously, go back to ZeroHedge. You'll find some neo-Nazi "fucknuts" who are more sympathetic to your Kremlin-sponsored alternate reality.

    6. Re:Results of world policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the Ukraine

      There's no "the" there. It's just Ukraine. Congrats, you've already discredited yourself. Let's see what else you have to say.

      those people are ethnically Russian and that segment wants to be part of Russia.

      During the last census (2001), only 17% of Ukraine was ethnic Russian. That figure has declined since then. Polls by Russian sociologists contradict your assertion that Ukrainians want to be part of Russia.

      For Syria, it's the USA that started the whole mess

      Disturbing that you so wantonly deprive Syrians of agency.

      Just how many times has the last hospital been destroyed, anyhow?

      Do you deny that Russia has conducted a campaign of bombing Syrian hospitals? Médecins Sans Frontière confirms that they are doing so, and stopped giving Syrian hospital coordinates to Russia for that reason: https://www.theguardian.com/wo...

      I'd much rather be on Russia's side

      Something tells me that you already are. Here's an ironic fact - you are severely ill informed, and you think you're compensating for it simply by being contrarian. You haven't said anything of substance, and have denied basic facts. I know that acquiring information (i.e. actually learning about something) requires effort, and that it's much easier to rail against the "MSM" (as if it's one monolithic thing, instead of a set of competing commercial entities), but you're actually making youself more gullible, more naive, and more ill-informed by doing this.

  14. Spamhaus Block List has these guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    https://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/query/SBL190623

    Just block the whole ISP and call it a day

    1. Re:Spamhaus Block List has these guys by Serif · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      Other useful information for those that can make use of it.

      AS43765
      91.200.12.0/22

  15. There is no civil war in Ukraine by Z_God · · Score: 5, Informative

    The idea that there's a civil war in Ukraine comes from Russian propaganda. There's actually a war against Russia going on there. The people who initiated it and the people on which it relies today all have Russian citizenship.

    1. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's actually a war against Russia going on there.

      So when is Ukraine going to invade Voronezh?

    2. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ukraine isn't Russia. They have no intention of invading anyone. They want their country to be de-Finlandized, and to have the opportunity to develop socially and politically, without Russian interference. Unfortunately, Russia is an ultranationalist dictatorship, and they consider the former Soviet republics to be Russian property, so they feel like they can't allow that to happen. Ukraine will eventually win, but the question is: how much damage will Russian fascism cause before that happens?

    3. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Russia is an ultranationalist dictatorship

      You'll find that the "ultranationalist" part is entirely incorrect. All significant nationalist forces have been systematically eradicated since Yeltsin's time. Whereas in Ukraine ultranationalism is very much en vogue.

    4. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's a load of rubbish. Nazi/fascist political philosopher Dugin is an advisor to Putin's closest advisors, and his philosophy has become more or less mainstream. Russia annexed Crimea on nationalist grounds, very similar to what Hitler used to justify his Sudetendland annexation. Putin even said things along the lines of "Crimea is sacred Russian land" - you just don't hear stuff like this anymore from civilized countries. This was supported by over 80% of the Russian population. Many (most?) Russians still consider Ukraine and Belarus to be Russian territory. That's nationalism.

      In Ukraine, the "nationalist" parties (Svoboda, and Pravy Sektor), whose "nationalism" mostly consists in wanting to be free of malicious Russian influence, have almost no representation in the parliament. In part, thanks to Russia's sponsorship of ultranationalist parties all over Europe (AfD, National Front, Golden Dawn, Jobbik - I could name major Russia-sponsored far-right parties all day, but you get the point), Ukraine is easily one of the least nationalistic countries in Europe. In fact, the Trump election reveals that Ukraine is even less nationalist than the US. The only way that you can call Ukraine nationalist is if you subscribe to the insane Russian ultranationalist notion that Ukraine's desire to de-Finlandize itself is somehow tantamount to nationalism.

    5. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Russia annexed Crimea on nationalist grounds, very similar to what Hitler used to justify his Sudetendland annexation.

      If you look past the Kremlin propaganda crap, you'll realise it wasn't on nationalist grounds, but on purely pragmatic ones. They grabbed it before they lost their share of Sevastopol, because the new Ukrainian government lineup was sure as fuck not going to cooperate after 2017. So they struck the iron while it was hot. Then they tried a similar tactic in the historically pro-Russian Donbass, but that didn't work out.
      Putin knows what kind of bollocks helps manipulate whom, but that doesn't make him a believer in the bollocks. He'll sponsor the radical left just as he does the radical right as long as it gives him leverage against his opponents.

    6. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      While you're absolutely right that the Kremlin adjusts its propaganda (including the nationalist material) to specific audiences, Putin and company's cynical use of nationalism doesn't make them any less nationalist. As I've stated, Putin is surrounded be adherents of ultranationalist Dugin. Putin's favorite philosopher is believed to be the pro-fascist, nationalist Ilyin (Putin was involved in repatriating his body, and re-burying him). While the takeover of Crimea had pragmatic aspects to it (i.e. Putin wanted to show Russians that rebelling against a corrupt dictatorship has negative consequences; Russia wanted their naval port), the precondition for it was the Russian nationalist idea that much or all of Ukraine belongs to Russia.

      Then they tried a similar tactic in the historically pro-Russian Donbass, but that didn't work out.

      I'm not sure that it's accurate to call it historically pro-Russian. It was repopulated with many Russians after Stalin's genocide by starvation of Ukrainians in 1932-33, but to this day, even under Russian occupation, and under threat of death, the vast majority of the people in the Donbas remain pro-Ukrainian (according to Russian pollsters).

      He'll sponsor the radical left just as he does the radical right as long as it gives him leverage against his opponents.

      Absolutely. It's amazing that so many people in the US and Europe are still so naive about this cynical dictator.

    7. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was repopulated with many Russians after Stalin's genocide by starvation of Ukrainians in 1932-33

      Those particular events wiped out a lot of Russians and Kazakhs as well, but somehow we only ever hear whingeing from Ukraine, because they are so special. There was a massive drought in the US in the 30's resulting in many deaths from starvation. Should probably also pin that on the USSR.

      It's amazing that so many people in the US and Europe are still so naive about this cynical dictator.

      Because there are so many layers of crap to break through. First the White House's/Brussels' then Putin's.

    8. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those particular events wiped out a lot of Russians and Kazakhs as well, but somehow we only ever hear whingeing from Ukraine, because they are so special.

      What kind of creature do you have to be to refer to the desire to have a genocide recognized as a genocide as "whingeing?" Yes, Kazakhs and Russians were also killed (and it's a reflection of those countries' lack of social consciousness and their repressive political institutions that they aren't more vocal about what happened; also Russians were the main culprits in implementing the horrors of communism, and they still haven't come to terms with that - about half of them still admire Stalin), but a number of confiscatory and punitive measures were taken against Ukraine that were not implemented in any other region, and their losses were particularly heavy. If you want a primer, read Tim Snyder's Bloodlands.

      There was a massive drought in the US in the 30's resulting in many deaths from starvation.

      And how is this comparable to millions of people being intentionally starved to death to fulfill the dubious goals of a communist utopia? While you can mitigate the effects of droughts, you can't control nature; you can change people's behavior though, and attention needs to be brought to the Holodomor to prevent this sort of insanity from happening again. Grow up.

      Should probably also pin that on the USSR.

      So it wasn't the USSR's fault that the USSR implemented policies such as the confiscation of seeds, confiscation of grain, locking of grain silos, and confiscation of livestock, among others? Wasn't the USSR's fault that they imposed an information blockade to prevent word of the genocide form getting out, and when word finally got out, it wasn't their fault that to avoid embarrassing their communist Utopia, they refused international aid, denying that there's a problem? At least read this Wikipedia entry about the causes of the Holodomor, before your say anything else that's exceedingly stupid and offensive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Because there are so many layers of crap to break through. First the White House's/Brussels' then Putin's.

      Oh, good, another Eurosceptic Brit. Do you realize that your tendency to blame Washington and Brussels first is a symptom of your Western/Euro-centrism and your lack of adequate understanding of other regions? For all their imperfections, Washington and Brussels are far better than Moscow in most aspects.

    9. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What kind of creature do you have to be to refer to the desire to have a genocide recognized as a genocide as "whingeing?"

      I have an issue with its being recognised as intentional genocide when in reality it was the result of insane economic policies and indiscriminate repression. The distribution of the damage was regional rather than ethnic.

    10. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have an issue with its being recognised as intentional genocide when in reality it was the result of insane economic policies and indiscriminate repression.

      Yes, genocides can be driven by insane economic policies, ideologies, or the whims of a madman - in fact, they most often are.

      The distribution of the damage was regional rather than ethnic.

      As I said, there were policies implemented in Ukraine, specifically intended to cause starvation, that were not implemented anywhere other than Ukraine. While this was happening, Stalin, one of the chief architects of these policies, complained against malicious Ukrainian peasants starving themselves to death to make him look bad. Ukraine, in case it isn't totally obvious, was largely populated by ethnic Ukrainians, hence, a specific ethnic group being targeted. Again, if you want to learn about this, check out Snyder's Bloodlands, where these policies are explained in detail. If you're interested in Eastern Europe, or WWII history, it's well worth it.

    11. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in Ukraine ultranationalism is very much en vogue.

      As is Nazism. It's really no wonder Crimea voted to leave.

  16. Low and behold, is there your smoking gun? by MxMatrix · · Score: 1

    Did you know donald trump emphasizes with these pro-russians? Perhaps the allegations to the russian government aren't that far fetched at all and did these hacktivists disrupt the democratic party's campaign on purpose.

    --
    Bach says it all.
    1. Re:Low and behold, is there your smoking gun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "empathizes"

    2. Re:Low and behold, is there your smoking gun? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "empathizes"

      I think GP meant he breathes so heavy when he's talking to his shirtless buddy Vlad that it sounds like he has emphysema.

  17. There is no civil war in Ukraine, stop lying by vityok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    UN GA just days ago adopted a resolution finally admitting that Ukraine is a victim of the Russian military agression. Crimea is now an internationally recognized ocuppied region. The war in the eastern parts of the country is also between two nation-states: Ukraine and Russia. Claims about a "civil war" are distilled Fake News, a lie, Kremlin's disinformation.

    1. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine, stop lying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an American, I couldn't care less about Ukraine. Once Obama is out, I hope my tax dollars stop going to Ukraine. The country has no respect for democracy. They had a legitimately elected government (supported mostly by eastern Ukrainians) which the western Ukrainians overthrew. Now their shitty country has become even more shitty and suddenly all these western Ukrainians are bumbling about the internet, crying about Russia and looking for handouts.

      Ukrainians made their bed. They can lie in it. Don't expect my sympathy and don't expect my money.

    2. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine, stop lying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anonymous Trump-Putin mouthpiece.

    3. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine, stop lying by packrat0x · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the Ukrainian government does not recognize an
      individual's God-given right of freedom of speech, freedom to peaceably
      assemble, fredom of religion; or their right to bear arms. It was very sad to see
      Ukrainians helpless against Russian invaders, since most Ukrainians aren't
      allowed to possess firearms. Ukraine does not have citizen soldiers, it has
      serfs ruled over by professional soldiers with a sham Democracy. The only real
      difference the invasion has made is a change in language of the oppressor.

      --
      227-3517
    4. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine, stop lying by mi · · Score: 1

      As an American [...]

      Quit lying. You are not an American. You are posting from Olgino or some such place for Putin's shilling.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    5. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine, stop lying by mi · · Score: 2

      Ukrainian government does not recognize an individual's God-given right of freedom of speech, freedom to peaceably assemble, freedom of religion; or their right to bear arms

      Actually, the recognition of these rights is not noticeably worse in Ukraine, than in the US.

      Ukraine does not have citizen soldiers

      Dude, who do you think stopped the Russian invasion from taking over the rest of Ukraine? Back in 2014 the official military was in such disarray, they could be stopped by brainwashed villagers — it was the hastily self-organized volunteer units...

      Most have now been integrated into the rebuilt official military, but in 2014 it was them, who cauterized the gangrene...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    6. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine, stop lying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, who do you think stopped the Russian invasion from taking over the rest of Ukraine?

      The fact that the taking over the rest of Ukraine was never the point. That's who.

    7. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine, stop lying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Take your Orwellian idiocy and Russian agitprop back to ZeroHedge, or some similar forum for degenerates. The Ukrainian public bravely stood up for democracy, by preventing Yanukovych from imposing the January 16th "Dictatorship Laws" (handed down to him by Russia, after one of his multiple "consultation" trips during that time) - http://www.civicsolidarity.org....

      Yanukovych was legitimately elected, but he used his powers to subvert every level of every democratic institution in Ukraine. Because the Ukrainian public dared to defend democracy through a popular revolution, Putin saw this as a personal threat. He responded by invading Crimea, which appealed to the Russian public's inherent nationalism and imperialism. Ever since then, Ukraine and Russia have been at war with each other.

    8. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine, stop lying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that the taking over the rest of Ukraine was never the point. That's who.

      Intercepts of Putin's advisor Glazyev were released, in which he was coordinating "separatist" movements all over Southern and Eastern Ukraine. At the time, Russian propaganda kept touting the notion of a Novorossiya (consisting of Southern and Eastern Ukraine) joining Russia. The Ukrainian army and volunteers, fought back Russia to Donetsk and Lugansk city limits, until Russia retaliated with a massive counteroffensive. In other words, stop digging yourself deeper into a hole.

      The problem is that the Ukrainian government does not recognize an individual's God-given right of freedom of speech, freedom to peaceably assemble, fredom of religion

      What are you talking about? Perhaps you're thinking of Russia? Ukraine's Jewish Prime Minister and Muslim MP Dzhemilev, disagree with your freedom of religion nonsense. Ukraine has the most free Russian language press in the world - probably too free for Ukraine's own good, since it has provided a vehicle for Russia's war propaganda. Since Yanukovych's "Dictatorship Laws" were overturned by Ukraine's revolution, Ukrainians can assemble as they like.

    9. Re:There is no civil war in Ukraine, stop lying by orient · · Score: 1

      Actually, God did not give humans rights, He gave laws, very harsh laws and limited the right to speak to God prising only. The real freedom of speech, speaking against God, was to be punished by death.

      --
      Laudele lor desigur m-ar mahni peste masura.
  18. Blame the RED Menace :) by khz6955 · · Score: 1

    Why is it I don't believe any of this?

  19. Explaining Russian-Ukrainian conflict to Yanks by mi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    UN GA just days ago adopted a resolution finally admitting that Ukraine is a victim of the Russian military aggression.

    For better or worse, the part of the United States' electorate, to whom you want to appeal, view the United Nations with skepticism. So, instead of appealing to a questionable authority, try the following argument...

    Imagine, Americans, Mexican government declaring Trump's election "a coup", his assemblage of generals — a junta, which placed the Latinophobic Nazi in power, contrary to the wishes of most Americans. Out of concern for the brotherly nation, Mexican government is encouraging volunteers to cross into California, Arizona, and Texas to help the local Spanish-speaking "self-defense" militias protect themselves against the White English-speaking bigots, who've persecuted the Spanish-speaking minority for years. In places stolen from Mexico before, these polite volunteers in military uniforms without any official insignia are already organizing a referendum to leave the US and join Mexico.

    Patriotic Americans attempting to resist the invasion are denounced as racists and shot at with military-style efficiency. Although officially Mexico is not a party to this "civil war", its troops are regularly encountered on the battlefields — all of them are then found to have been "on leave" from their units. Artillery bombardment of American forces seems to originate from across the border, but no one can say for sure.

    Would you still say, it is a civil war — Americans fighting other Americans?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Explaining Russian-Ukrainian conflict to Yanks by javilon · · Score: 2

      Please mod parent up

      --


      When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
    2. Re:Explaining Russian-Ukrainian conflict to Yanks by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      That's one of the best /. analogies ever. Well done. We've even got the allegations of a third-party facilitating the coup.

      Assuming that the objective of Hispanic forces in those states is to exit the USA and join Mexico, I would not call it a "civil war". IMO, the term "civil war" should be reserved for situations where two or more factions within a nation are fighting to seize power over the whole nation. By the same token, I refuse to refer to the 1861-1865 war in the USA as a "civil war" because the South was not trying to take over Washington DC, but simply to break away. Your scenario is very similar except for the aid of Mexican military forces.

      I'd hope that the states in the Southwest would at least attempt to exit the USA by referendum or a vote of their state legislatures before initiating hostilities though. Hell, with Trump in power, you'd get millions of white English-speakers on the Hispanic side.

    3. Re:Explaining Russian-Ukrainian conflict to Yanks by mi · · Score: 1

      would not call it a "civil war". IMO, the term "civil war" should be reserved for situations where two or more factions within a nation are fighting to seize power over the whole nation [...] I refuse to refer to the 1861-1865 war in the USA as a "civil war" because the South was not trying to take over Washington DC

      You are wrong, the term "civil war" in English means:

      a war between factions in the same country

      Note, that the objective does not matter... Wikipedia's expanded definition and explanation says:

      A civil war is a war between organized groups within the same state or country, or, less commonly, between two countries created from a formerly united state. The aim of one side may be to take control of the country or a region, to achieve independence for a region or to change government policies.

      No, what disqualifies Russian-Ukrainian conflict from being a "civil war" is that Russia — a foreign power — is among the belligerents.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    4. Re:Explaining Russian-Ukrainian conflict to Yanks by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      How can I be wrong when I said it was my opinion that the term should be used more narrowly?

      "...a war between factions in the same country..."

      In the OP's hypothetical scenario, hostilities have erupted before any legal separation, so I suppose there's an argument for using the term, even though separation is the goal. When The South legally seceded from the union however, it was no longer the same country, thus, according to that definition, the 1861-1865 conflict was not a "civil war".

      I must disagree with the Wikipedia definition that includes: "war ... between two countries created from a formerly united state". Winners write the history books and apparently they author the Wikipedia articles too. If the Czech Republic and Slovakia went to war, would that be called a "civil war" as well? Think about Sudan. They fought two "civil wars" lasting 20+ years each, but then ended up splitting into two countries by a referendum in the South. If they started fighting again, would it be "civil war 3" or something else?

      If the intervention of foreign powers changes a "civil war" into a !"civil war", I think the terminology becomes hopelessly confused. I've certainly never heard the Korean War referred to as "The Korean Civil War", even though there were no foreign powers involved in the beginning. The USA is arming & training rebels in Syria and the Russians are providing air support for the government, but it's still regularly referred to as "The Syrian Civil War".

      To me, a war in which one faction is fighting for political and territorial independence seems very different than a war in which both factions are fighting to control a central government. So different that a single label feels imprecise. I'm only going to use "civil war" for the latter type of conflict.

  20. From the 'smoke-screen dept.' eh? Agreed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: In a warzone so no law exists & anyone can put up sites there - it's a "put-up/snow job" framing russians imo.

    * Attribution (as to WHO is behind it)? Especially in nations that don't 'cooperate' between international & national bodies of law enforcement is HARD let alone in a warzone (it could be anyone doing it vs. russians).

    APK

    P.S.=> To be honest about it & it makes me ashamed in fact? I would NOT doubt it's our CIA doing it (or the Chinese) trying to stir-up trouble - wtf! Doesn't the world have ENOUGH already?? apk

  21. Invasion? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An "invasion" would be over in about six hours, because that's about the amount of time it would take a superpower to subdue a foe that size.

    This invasion talk takes me back to the laughable daily claims a couple of years back from the Nazi regime in Kiev, when they literally claimed EVERY DAY that that an invasion had begun. #fakenews

  22. Semantics by mi · · Score: 1

    How can I be wrong when I said it was my opinion that the term should be used more narrowly?

    It is wrong to change the very meaning of a word and then argue, other people aren't using it correctly.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.