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Facing Layoff, An IT Employee Makes A Bold Counteroffer (computerworld.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the Bob-Cratchit-vs-Scrooge dept.

ComputerWorld reports: In early December, Carnival Corp. told about 200 IT employees that the company was transferring their work to Capgemini, a large IT outsourcing firm. The employees had a choice: Either agree to take a job with the contractor or leave without severance. The employees had until the week before Christmas to make a decision about their future with the cruise line. By agreeing to a job with Paris-based Capgemini, employees are guaranteed employment for six months, said Roger Frizzell, a Carnival spokesman. "Our expectation is that many will continue to work on our account or placed into other open positions within Capgemini" that go well beyond the six-month period, he said in an email.
Senior IT engineer Matthew Culver told CBS that the requested "knowledge transfer activities" just meant training their own replacements, and "he isn't buying any of it," writes Slashdot reader dcblogs. "After receiving his offer letter from Capgemini, he sent a counteroffer. It asked for $500,000...and apology letters to all the affected families," signed by the company's CEO. In addition, the letter also demanded a $100,000 donation to any charity that provides services to unemployed American workers. "I appreciate your time and attention to this matter, and I sincerely hope that you can fulfill these terms."

And he's also working directly with a lawyer for an advocacy group that aims to "stop the abuse of H-1B and other foreign worker programs."

18 of 531 comments (clear)

  1. Dear Matthew by buddyglass · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Matthew,

    No.

    Roger Frizzell
    CEO, Carnival Corp.

    1. Re:Dear Matthew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Foreign workers are willing to do a job at a lower salary in most if not all cases b/c the cost of living in their respective countries is a fraction of ours. I would be willing to do my job at a fraction of what I am paid currently should that (that being how expensive it is to live here) change. It is equally infuriating to me when American companies use loopholes in our ridiculously complicated tax code to shelter revenues in foreign tax shelters to avoid paying taxes while at the same time benefiting from our infrastructure, emergency services, military, etc.. Its assholes like you that always spout off about free market this or that, os some companies feduciary responsibilities to it's shareholders blah blah blah... as justification for shitty behavior.

    2. Re:Dear Matthew by Rob+Y. · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that calling, say iOS sales 'generated overseas' when the software was written in the US, using US infrastructure, etc. And the company is making the bogus claim that their Irish subsidiary owns the rights to that software. It's a scam - not a loophole.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    3. Re:Dear Matthew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am sorry that foreign tech workers are willing to do the same job you are, but at a lower salary.

      I'm sorry that this action is a federal criminal offence when you do not meet all of the required H1B restrictions on hiring unqualified replacements for American workers.

      I'm also sorry your HR department so kindly provided the evidence of your crimes by specifically indicating in writing that there is indeed at least one skilled American capable of performing the work of the H1B worker you plan to hire.

      I am sorry that hiring them to replace you is the most rational action I can take.

      I'm sorry the most rational choice you are capable of making is to break federal law resulting in a $200,000 fine and 24 months in a federal prison per incident.

      Once things get to the level of bad you are claiming, perhaps a more rational option would be to resign your job, instead of resigning yourself to prison time by committing a felony that you will be held personally responsible for.

    4. Re:Dear Matthew by geoskd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a scam - not a loophole.

      They are the same thing. The only way to ensure that there are no tax dodges out there is to simplify the tax code, and eliminate the words: "except", "but", "excluding", "omitting", "minus", "exempt", "without", and any other words to those same effects.

      Americans are too stupid to ever vote for a poltiician that states they will raise taxes. This means that either politicians lie, or they actively undermine the tax base. Both of those situations are bad for the majority of americans, but they vote for the same scumbags over and over, and will soundly reject any politician who openly advocates tax increases. The result is a race to the bottom. Welcome to reaping what you sow, brought to you by Democracy(tm).

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    5. Re:Dear Matthew by msauve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I am baffled why Americans believe they have a "right" to tax the sale of a product made in China and sold in France."

      Because the manufacturing and sales are controlled by a US based company, as is the profit benefit which results. If a US entity, which receives the benefits of US law, makes a profit by any means, why should it not be taxed by the US?

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    6. Re:Dear Matthew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you really that clueless? If that was the case, I don't think anyone would complain. But, that is NOT what happens. Google (for example) set up a company in Ireland. Google Ireland owns all the patents to the search tech. So Google USA licenses that tech from Google Ireland for several (hundred?) billion dollars per year. Thus, it manages to shift all (most) of it's income outside of the US using trickery. Google Ireland does NOTHING except own patents given to it by Google USA. Google Ireland did not invent anything, it creates nothing, it employs no one (at least not in the sense of actually doing anything related to Google USA). All it does is exist to "force" Google USA to pay huge sums of money to itself (via a subsidiary) that exists outside the USA thus "legally" shifting said income outside the border.

      There is no fucking way this is what politicians intended when the law was written. Even I'm not that cynical. I have no doubt it was to legitimately shield actual profits earned outside the US (and thus not using our infrastructure) from being taxed where they were not earned. I can't imagine anyone could forsee that at some point some fucking company would be licensing shit to ITSELF to shift profits.

      In conclusion, you are another cunt who spouts off at the mouth whilst knowing NOTHING.

      I also love all you assholes who point out that this is LEGAL. Who cares? LEGAL AND MORAL ARE NOT EQUAL. There is no law that prevents a company from acting in a moral manner. That B.S. half of you shills spout about a company having to maximize profits is a LIE. No such law exists.

      Slavery was legal for fuck's sake...... IT WAS NEVER MORAL

      I run my company in as moral a fashion as I possibly can. (And no, I'm not religious, I'm an atheist).
      I collect no data beyond what is absolutely necessary to function, none is ever shared beyond what is absolutely imperative. None is ever sold. EVER EVER EVER. And I'm very profitable. So no.. You don't have to be a cunt to have a successful business. I am so tired of hearing this bullshit.

      Companies that pull this shit are competing unfairly with companies that don't. And they should be penalized. And yeah, this is coming from someone who is very conservative. If you don't like a law, you work to change it, you don't dodge it and let everyone else suffer under it.

    7. Re:Dear Matthew by fibonacci8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I suppose it's related to the idea that intellectual property "rights" granted by a country of origin should still have the same benefits and drawbacks when transferred to another country. Or at the very least should be treated as an export at such time a base of operations moves out of country.

      --
      Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
    8. Re:Dear Matthew by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Globalization is a race to the bottom. As long as there are no consequences for my business, and only communities must bear the burden, we'll likely see an acceleration of this practice.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  2. Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want better workplace conditions, better wages, and better treatment then the best way to get it is to unionize. It puts you in a stronger bargaining position so you have more leverage against ultimatums like "either agree to take a job with the contractor or leave without severance".

    1. Re:Pointless by WaterDamage · · Score: 4, Insightful

      doesn't work if the entire dept is getting sacked. Nice try AC

    2. Re:Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure it does. From the article:

      "This business model requires employees to train foreign replacements for it to be successful," she said.

      There's your leverage. If only one or two employees argue against it, the argument is ineffectual and their bargaining power is weak. If, however, there's an organized, unified position against it from all employees then you've got some clout. Once you're organized you've got a stronger bargaining position and can get better outcomes.

    3. Re:Pointless by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, if they had a strong union they could collectively refuse to do any knowledge transfer. Without that the company won't last 3 months.

      Maybe a bunch of them could all quit immediately and set up a consulting firm, charging $5k/day/person. If the company wants knowledge transfer, they can pay for it at a rate that will set them up for any periods of unemployment they need to cover.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  3. Re:sense of entitlement by cahuenga · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not entitlement, incentive.

    There was a time that working toward making a company successful was an incentive as it ensured further employment. Not anymore.

  4. Want to think you're powerless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You have to try to stand up.
    The easiest thing for the ultrawealthy is to make you think you're powerless and to admit defeat without a battle.

    The best thing to do is to not train the replacements.
    The best thing to do is to fight it, even if it turns out ugly.

  5. Actually, if they DID unionize... by GerryGilmore · · Score: 5, Insightful

    CapGemini would be in a world of shit. Think about it...They were/are banking on a majority of the existing IT workers to do "knowledge transfer" in order to be successful in fulfilling their contract. If the existing IT workers COLLECTIVELY said NO, there is no way that CG could assume the contract and not get sued for utter failure. No KT, no success. Together, we can win - separately, we are at their mercy (of which they demonstrably have none).

  6. Re:The very definition of insanity by demonlapin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are some universal problems with unions, but most of the ones in the US stem from the fact that US union laws are awful. If you tried to design something more easily coopted into a political machine, you would be hard-pressed to do so.

  7. Shoe on other foot by orin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's interesting that on Slashdot, when it's anyone else's non-IT job getting outsourced or automated, there is a lot of chortling and discussion of buggy whip manufacturers and how non-IT workers should just suck it up. There was a story about automated truck drivers in the last month that was full of comments denigrating these workers and that it was good for society that their job would soon be done by a robot. When it's an IT job getting outsourced, "IT'S AN OUTRAGE!!!!!" Doesn't take much insight to realize why this issue will never get political traction. Who wants to stick up for the IT people when the IT people just offered snark for everyone else that was automated/outsourced before them?