Turkey Says It's Investigating 10,000 Social Network Users (engadget.com)

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Turkey Says It's Investigating 10,000 Social Network Users (engadget.com)

Posted by msmash on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @03:20AM from the crackdown dept.

Turkey has been cracking down on internet activity at a frenetic pace ever since an attempted military coup in the summer, and it's now clear that there are a lot of people caught in the dragnet. From a report: The country's interior ministry has revealed that officials are investigating about 10,000 social network users suspected of backing terrorism. About 3,710 people have been questioned in the past 6 months, authorities say, and 1,656 were arrested. The rest were let go, but 1,203 of them are still under watch. There's one inescapable question, however: just how many of those internet socialites really support terrorism?

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And how many by wiredog · 2016-12-27 03:28 · Score: 1

are being monitored by the Five Eyes countries? Never mind how many are being monitored by corporations that may be "encouraged" to share the data with various governments.

--

Best Slashdot Co
1. Re:And how many by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:05 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, that's what western governments want to do with its own citizens: Survey and monitor internet communications with no legal survey.
  I am sure it is a matter of time they reach Turkey's level, but perhaps discreeter and with better manners.
2. Re:And how many by Richard_at_work · 2016-12-27 04:38 · Score: 2
  
  The Five Eyes isn't an obvious attempt at cleaning house, while everything Erdogan has done since the coup is a very obvious attempt at clearing the deck of his political adversaries. Don't expect elections in Turkeys near future.
3. Re:And how many by khallow · 2016-12-27 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  The Five Eyes isn't an obvious attempt at cleaning house
  Yet.
4. Re:And how many by ShanghaiBill · 2016-12-27 05:10 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Yet.
  That is the point. In the "Five Eyes" (US, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ), data is being collected, and it is possible that maybe someday that data could be used to roundup and arrest dissidents or people that question authority.
  In Turkey, that worst case scenario is happening now. 70,000 people have been arrested. Hundreds of thousands more have lost their jobs. Erdogan's has openly expressed contempt for democracy. He once said "Democracy is like a train. You get off once you reach your destination."
  For those of us who believe in open societies, with free movement of people, goods and ideas, 2016 has been a annus horribilis. I never expected to see so much regression in so many places.
5. Re:And how many by Ginguin · 2016-12-27 05:49 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Anytime someone asks questions about my concern for privacy online and why I find data collection so dangerous ("But I am doing nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, so why should I care?"), I point to McCarthyism and the anti-communism mania from the 1940's and 1950's. In the late 1940's, the House Committee on Un-American Activities (Yes, that's really the name of a U.S. House of Representatives investigative committee) began to subpoena Hollywood types (screenwriters, directors, actors, etc.) and ask them to testify about known or suspected membership in the Communist Party, association with its members, or support of its beliefs.
  
  This committee would ask people to name names of colleagues with Communist affiliations. They saw a massive web of dissidents just based on affiliation. No bad deeds required other than showing up at a house party 20 years earlier. A paranoid black spot on our history that had serious repercussions for a lot of professionals when private companies started to blacklist people (See the Waldorf Statement) based on little to no evidence. Just being subpoenaed by the committee was enough cause to lose your job and not be able to find another job. Why would you be subpoenaed? Who know? Did you go to a coffee shop where "Communist" meetings were held? Did you best friend become a Communist? You could be roped in and tarred when you hadn't done anything wrong. It was even worse if you were actually a member of the Communist party (something that was not illegal) ten years before.
  
  Can you imagine how horrible that era would have been if they government had just the Metadata on every single person in the country? Who you messaged, called, etc. tells a lot about your network, and you are going to be 'guilty by association' for a lot of things that you are not necessarily guilty of. It may be wrong of me, but I often draw parallels in modern times with what happened then. Are there any ideas they or their friends hold that may become more unpopular in ten or twenty years? Do they have religios beliefs that will be considered 'bad' in the future? We don't know... but if it does we have a record of every person you talked to. And that's just the Metadata. Browsing habits, actual content of communication: apparently a lot of that was collected (if not retained). Location is just as dangerous. There is a record of nearly everywhere you have been since you they started logging where your phone has been. Every day for a month, were you at Starbucks around the same time as a future terrorist? You wouldn't know, but the government does.
  
  People are damned by what they say, even if what they say wasn't wrong when it was said. It can get taken and twisted by a motivated agent, and we are giving them the ammo future McCarthys need to do horrible damage to society. Sure, no one is actually looking at you when your data sits in a massive data warehouse, but when that data becomes relevant or certain ideas are labeled as 'dangerous', it's there for discovery. What was once 'no evidence of wrongdoing' at one time becomes the noose that is used to hang you in the future.
  
  --
  "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a targeted advertisement" - Adam Harvey
6. Re:And how many by Jawnn · 2016-12-27 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  Yet.
  That is the point. In the "Five Eyes" (US, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ), data is being collected, and it is possible that maybe someday that data could be used to roundup and arrest dissidents or people that question authority.
  Exactly, and it's already started. I certainly feel just a little bit less safe since the election last month, given the incoming administration's plainly stated intent to violate my Constitutional rights. Then again, they're probably going to have a bitch of a time pinning down the political leanings of a liberal who likes guns and NASCAR, so I may be safe for a while.
7. Re: And how many by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 09:35 · Score: 0
  
  The connection to terrorism is easy. For example in 2001 i knew my boss. He knew a rich american. He knew a us senator. He knew george w bush. And his dad and osama bin ladens dad were in business together!
i think Turkey by FudRucker · 2016-12-27 03:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

has gone insane with paranoia, maybe a coup would be best, get rid of that insane paranoid government and install a secular democratic/republic government that has a separation of islam and state, religion tends to ruin democratic processes and islam is the worst offender, (just look at the brutal states run by islam) so democracy needs republic oversight otherwise it is just tyranny of the majority

--
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
1. Re:i think Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 03:54 · Score: 1
  
  You are correct. Religion has killed many millions of people over the last 2 millennia all in the name of some bearded chap called God It is funny how the beliefs of people influence others only to find thet they are turned upon. Take the Phelps bunch of religious nutters where everyone "apart from themselves" were going to burn in hell, then some time later one of them is ousted "Shirley Lynn Phelps-Roper" from the family church and then they are now going to burn in hell too. It's a wonder they can ever recruit anyone as everyone (outside of the inner circle) is a Gay loving satan loving whore munger burn in hell so in theroy they can not have any new members regardless. Best let them all die a lonely death
2. Re:i think Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 03:55 · Score: 1
  
  Erdogan's paranoia is hardly a function of religion, plenty of officially secular countries are far worse. For example, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge and many of the former soviet satellite countries.
  But it is standard operating procedure for autocratic rule.
  And its self-reinforcing, we are watching a democratic state fail into dictatorship.
  He's been steadily weakening the country's civil institutions, concentrating power in himself. He's also reacting poorly to crises, each reaction pushes the country further into dictatorship and he can't walk back any of those choices for fear of losing legitimacy in the eye of the public, so he doubles-down instead. And that is a well-worn path for dictatorship everywhere. Same thing happened with the democratically elected Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines and Mubarak in Egypt.
  At this rate Turkey is going to end up where so many other countries have ended up - a choice between extremes, brutal dictatorship or brutal reactionary terrorists that are nominally organized around an idealogy like a religion. Most people would prefer something more conventionally liberal, but unless something changes those are going to be the only two choices on the menu.
3. Re: i think Turkey by Type44Q · 2016-12-27 04:13 · Score: 1
  
  He's also reacting poorly to crises, each reaction pushes the country further into dictatorship and he can't walk back any of those choices for fear of losing legitimacy in the eye of the public, so he doubles-down instead.
  You're quick to assume you understand his motives. You very likely do not.
4. Re: i think Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:17 · Score: 0
  
  Erdogan is a pompous megalomaniacal fuckwit of a dictator who will be the first against the wall when it all finally becomes too much for the general population to bear.
5. Re: i think Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:29 · Score: 0
  
  You're quick to assume you understand his motives. You very likely do not.
  Maybe so. All any of us can do is judge him by his actions. And in that he's doing pretty much what nearly every dictator in modern history has done. If he turns out to be that rare exception who ends up taking another path, then I'll be the first to say so.
6. Re:i think Turkey by ShanghaiBill · 2016-12-27 05:26 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  You misjudge what is happening in Turkey. Erdogan has openly expressed an explicit goal of creating an Islamic state, and dismantling democracy. That is what he was elected to do. His actions have been broadly popular, and the current crackdown has broad support.
  If you know any Turks, you might be surprised that they could support this. But the Turks that you know are likely urban, cosmopolitan people from Istanbul or Thrace. Erdogan's base is in rural Anatolia, where people are less educated and far less tolerant. They hate Christians (especially Armenians) even though they have likely never met one. They hate Shiites. They hate and fear the Kurds even more. And they are sick of the Istanbul elites treating their culture and their religion with perceived contempt. Erdogan is their champion.
7. Re:i think Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 05:53 · Score: 0
  
  Just wait until Roe V Wade is overturned in the US, and other "worst offender" Christian laws start to pop up in the US.
  Gay sex will be illegal again, let alone marriage not being legal, Woman won't have the right to sue for equal pay for equal work (which they 'barely' do now with the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009 (One of Obama's first acts as president),
  And that isn't even saying anything about the lunatics (ohh and there are more than you think) who follow the "prosperity gospel" that ways that 'if I'm rich, God made that way, therefore I'm right, therefore what I do is right"... etc.. (they don't say it that way, but that is the end result)
  Then you won't say that "Islam" is the "motherload of bad ideas", "that Islam is the worst offender", etc...
  Evangelicals who follow the prosperity gospel and Wahabist (This is the sect from Saudi Arabia that promotes all the 'bad things' we associate with Arabs now) have as little to do with as Islam and Christianity as Episode 1,2, and 3 of Star Wars have in common with "High Quality Science Fiction".... sure some of the trappings are there.... some high level similarities appear the same at first glance.... but they really have nothing to do with each other at the core...
  And this is from someone who doesn't believe in either Sky god.... and thinks people who are religious are just purposely deluding themselves so as to make their daily lives easier.
8. Re:i think Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 06:20 · Score: 0
  
  A small group of 2-3 sniper will do the trick. No big Coup as the last time. Just a handful of military qualified people. Small plan, a silent operation. Nothing else! Please someone free turkey from this georgian asshole.
9. Re:i think Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 06:54 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  So basically, Erdogan is Turkey Trump?
10. Re:i think Turkey by fbobraga · 2016-12-27 07:48 · Score: 1
  
  maybe a coup would be best
  an apparently fake coup was announced there some weeks ago (and used for excuse for firing several army members, and jailing several journalists) - the president, Erdoan, is nothing more than an dictator.
  
  * any external influence outside United Nations is not welcome (see that CIA?)
11. Re:i think Turkey by Bartles · 2016-12-27 07:50 · Score: 2
  
  This isn't paranoia. This is a purge.
12. Re:i think Turkey by fbobraga · 2016-12-27 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  islam is the worst offender
  not true
  
  (just look at the brutal states run by islam)
  Anecdotal evidence
13. Re:i think Turkey by unixisc · 2016-12-27 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  I wonder whether Turkey will crack down on Sedar Argic?
14. Re:i think Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 10:29 · Score: 0
  
  Pretty much, yeah.
15. Re:i think Turkey by GNious · 2016-12-27 12:02 · Score: 1
  
  has gone insane with paranoia, maybe a coup would be best
  huh? they just had one, quite successfully too, I might add....
16. Re:i think Turkey by Darinbob · 2016-12-27 13:41 · Score: 1
  
  It's not necessarily paranoia, it is more likely a political clean up of the opposition disguised as paranoia.
17. Re:i think Turkey by Darinbob · 2016-12-27 13:43 · Score: 1
  
  Except that there was real government approved discrimination against religion, as opposed in the US where it's just a conspiracy theory.
18. Re:i think Turkey by Howitzer86 · 2016-12-27 15:55 · Score: 1
  
  Heh, you could say that the paranoia in Erdogan's case is self-fulfilling. He's going to go far enough and pin enough people in a corner that there won't be anything for them to do but chop his head off.
Zero by Freischutz · 2016-12-27 03:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

Just how many of those internet socialites really support terrorism?
Probably close to zero. Most of them are likely supporters of Kurdish or other opposition parties, people who think the hate campaign against Fethullah Gülen is a giant smoke screen or just people who made the mistake to point out that Erdogan bears a striking resemblance to Gollum .
1. Re:Zero by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 03:46 · Score: 0
  
  Just how many of those internet socialites really support terrorism?
  Probably close to zero. Most of them are likely supporters of Kurdish or other opposition parties, people who think the hate campaign against Fethullah Gülen is a giant smoke screen or just people who made the mistake to point out that Erdogan bears a striking resemblance to Gollum .
  Now what did Gollum do to deserve such an insult?
  Gollum was a pitiful creature ensnared by forces beyond his control. He just wanted his Precious for himself. And if Sam hadn't been harsh to him on the Morgul stairs, Gollum might very well have redeemed himself.
  Erdogan wants to subjugate everyone under radical Islam. He's a wanna-be Morgoth. Chain his ass up and toss him out into the black depths.
2. Re:Zero by gnick · 2016-12-27 04:45 · Score: 1
  
  Just how many of those internet socialites really support terrorism?
  Probably close to zero...
  They all support terrorism. For various definitions of terrorism. It all depends on who's asking.
  
  --
  He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
3. Re:Zero by Freischutz · 2016-12-27 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  Just how many of those internet socialites really support terrorism?
  Probably close to zero. Most of them are likely supporters of Kurdish or other opposition parties, people who think the hate campaign against Fethullah Gülen is a giant smoke screen or just people who made the mistake to point out that Erdogan bears a striking resemblance to Gollum .
  Now what did Gollum do to deserve such an insult?
  Gollum was a pitiful creature ensnared by forces beyond his control. He just wanted his Precious for himself. And if Sam hadn't been harsh to him on the Morgul stairs, Gollum might very well have redeemed himself.
  Erdogan wants to subjugate everyone under radical Islam. He's a wanna-be Morgoth. Chain his ass up and toss him out into the black depths.
  I apologize unreservedly.
As Someone Actually In Turkey by dryriver · 2016-12-27 03:45 · Score: 5, Informative

Turkey is very far along on the way to becoming both a non-Democracy and a repressive Theocracy. After the ruling AK party forcibly turned about 90% of the country's mainstream media outlets into its mouthpieces over the years, tens of millions of secular Turks flocked to social media sites like Facebook and Twitter to be able to talk to each other, to be able to get "unfiltered news", to be able to express themselves freely and to also openly criticize the direction the country is being dragged in. Now THAT too is being cracked down on. VPNs are currently non-functional in Turkey. If a website is blocked, you're not gonna find a way to access it anymore. Well known websites get blocked or slowed down all the time (last week Youtube and Twitter were quite often slow or inacessible). This, unfortunately, is what Turkey's future looks like. Few rights for people, very little self expression allowed (at least not without consequences), many bans on the internet, ideological pressure on all media outlets and citizens. That is the overall picture in Turkey, and it doesn't look like it will change anytime soon.

--
Why did the chicken cross the road? Because Elon Musk put an AI chip in its head.
1. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 03:50 · Score: 0
  
  fukin dude! did they ban your damn enter key as well?
2. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 03:56 · Score: 0
  
  Turkey is very far along on the way to becoming both a non-Democracy and a repressive Theocracy. After the ruling AK party forcibly turned about 90% of the country's mainstream media outlets into its mouthpieces over the years, tens of millions of secular Turks flocked to social media sites like Facebook and Twitter to be able to talk to each other, to be able to get "unfiltered news", to be able to express themselves freely and to also openly criticize the direction the country is being dragged in. Now THAT too is being cracked down on. VPNs are currently non-functional in Turkey. If a website is blocked, you're not gonna find a way to access it anymore. Well known websites get blocked or slowed down all the time (last week Youtube and Twitter were quite often slow or inacessible). This, unfortunately, is what Turkey's future looks like. Few rights for people, very little self expression allowed (at least not without consequences), many bans on the internet, ideological pressure on all media outlets and citizens. That is the overall picture in Turkey, and it doesn't look like it will change anytime soon.
  Wow. Sounds just like what Democrats want to do with their campaign against "fake news".
  Democrats have already given up on free speech and freedom of association. Speech they don't like is labelled "racist" or "sexist" and called "hate speech", or lately "fake news". Freedom of association includes freedom to NOT associate - why the hell is it OK to FORCE a fundamental Christian baker to bake a cake for a gay wedding? (Especially love the double standard there - Islamic homophobia makes fundamental Christians look sane - but hey, a fundamentalist Moslem is a "progressive" icon and close to being the DNC chair. Imagine Jerry Falwell actually being RNC chair [and here comes the real "fake news" strawmen from outraged "progressives", as if there's any other kind...])
3. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 03:59 · Score: 1
  
  To show how far this has gone, we have a branch office in Turkey that does about $1.5m in business a year. Since this summer they haven't been able to VPN into our network to access files and the ERP system. The ISPs answer regarding getting an exemption for business reason has been a resounding "get fucked".
  Outlook over HTTPS luckily still works, so they're sending their orders by Email, but I know they're taking a big business hit from their intra-corporate competition from countries that allow VPN access because those guys snap up orders while the traders who bother asking the turks for a quote are still waiting for an answer. Turkey would literally rather trash its economy rather than restrict their witch hunt to reasonable limits.
4. Re: As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:10 · Score: 0
  
  Socialism can only work when lying about the results. So controlling the media is the first step. Meanwhile capitalism has lifted almost the entire world away from poverty in less than 100 years.
5. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by mujadaddy · 2016-12-27 04:12 · Score: 2
  
  What do you think about the recent abortive "coup" attempt? To me, it seemed like an operation completely in the control of Erdogan's government with the goal of providing a pretext for the current crushing of dissent. I'm not over there, though.
  
  --
  Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
  "Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
6. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by mujadaddy · 2016-12-27 04:15 · Score: 2
  
  why the hell is it OK to FORCE a fundamental Christian baker to bake a cake for a gay wedding?
  I'll bite. Try this:
  
  why the hell is it OK to FORCE a {white supremacist} baker to bake a cake for a {black} wedding?
  Still feel the same way?
  
  --
  Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
  "Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
7. Re: As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:21 · Score: 0
  
  Then why does capitalism have so many liars itself?
8. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by DNS-and-BIND · 2016-12-27 04:24 · Score: 3
  
  But Turkey voted for this. This isn't some crazy despot, it's the will of the people. Islamic countries want to live under Islamic laws. Freedom of Speech is an imported concept from the West, along with racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and all the other issues that Trump successfully ran on.
  Perhaps it's best to consider the period of 1920-2010 as an aberration in Turkish history. Now Turkey is merely regressing to the mean, as it was always going to do.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
9. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:26 · Score: 0
  
  Freedom of association includes freedom to NOT associate - why the hell is it OK to FORCE a fundamental Christian baker to bake a cake for a gay wedding?
  
  Same reason it's ok to force a racist hotel operator to rent rooms to people with no regards towards race. You did read Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States, right? None of you "Oh no, they're making someone bake a cake" whiners ever want to look at that, for some reason. Why is it? Do you just not want to realize there are limits on your freedoms?
  
  (Especially love the double standard there - Islamic homophobia makes fundamental Christians look sane - but hey, a fundamentalist Moslem is a "progressive" icon and close to being the DNC chair. Imagine Jerry Falwell actually being RNC chair [and here comes the real "fake news" strawmen from outraged "progressives", as if there's any other kind...])
  What's quite telling is that you describe Keith Ellison as a fundamentalist Muslim. For some reason. It's like you don't know him at all.
  Imagine me calling Ronald Reagan a star actor famous for many renowned and popular movies for the ages.
10. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:31 · Score: 1
  
  You cannot force a fundamental Christian baker to bake a cake for a gay wedding.
  You can force a corporation, a non-natural entity created by the state, to follow the laws (i.e. non-discrimination laws) imposed on such entities by the state. That a fundamentalist Christian baker owns and/or works for the entity does not mean the entity does not have to follow the law. The baker (as employee) can quit or (as owner) can dissolve the entity (subject to further laws).
  If the bakery was a sole proprietorship, the baker could refuse, as there is no non-natural entity that the state can impose the non-discrimination laws (under the theory that such laws cannot be imposed on the baker, as they would violate the constitutional rights of the baker as a natural person).
  In short - if you want the advantages of having a corporation, you have to play by the rules, and there can be rules that apply to a corporation that do not apply to natural citizens. (This is the basis of one of the points of Stevens' dissent in Citizens United.)
11. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:39 · Score: 0
  
  You cannot force a fundamental Christian baker to bake a cake for a gay wedding.
  You're right, I can't. The state can. And it does.
  Sure, the hypothetical baker can refuse to operate, but then, that's going to have a price itself.
  Namely they won't be engaged in the professional business for commerce which they seemingly wanted to do.
12. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by mujadaddy · 2016-12-27 04:42 · Score: 2
  
  You have made a distinction between corporations and sole proprietors which simply does not exist in the case of refusal of public accommodation.
  You seem to think that I can refuse service to whomever I like. This is true, but there are consequences. If one of those consequences is a blanket ban on a class of people (as opposed to rejecting a disruptive patron), then *I* am in the wrong.
  
  --
  Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
  "Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
13. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:47 · Score: 0
  
  Trump
  So, basically, you're a whore of a cuck who still can't understand it's the economy, fucknugget; rather, you whine hysterically and incoherently about the wonderful people who were With Her(tm).
  Like the tyrant Erdogan.
  Like the repressive House of Saud.
  Like ISIL in Syria.
14. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 05:35 · Score: 0
  
  Perhaps it's best to consider the period of 1920-2010 as an aberration in Turkish history.
  
  You would already be there if you had a passing familiarity with the Turkish military's forced secularism.
  
  Now Turkey is merely regressing to the mean, as it was always going to do.
  Don't worry, so too will you, and you'll do it with a chorus of rousing cheers as you announce your love for Big Papa Pump.
15. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 06:08 · Score: 0
  
  Top kek. It's hilarious watching liberals spin and spin. Everyone - every last person - of the millions of people who followed Trump did so because they're racist misogynist transphobic nazi bigots. But suggest that Daesh is sneaking insurgents into the West dressed as refugees, and they blow their shit because none - not a single person - of the millions of followers of a violent pedophile who swore to kill every last nonbeliever can possibly be a violent terrorist, despite the fact that their most popular leaders spend their time calling for exactly that. Naturally, "itz diffuhrent" when it comes to supporting people who call for death to Jews, death to gays, death to nonbelievers, etc. etc.
16. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Hognoxious · 2016-12-27 06:26 · Score: 2
  
  Either a false flag operation (the leaders are really in Obiwan's pocket and will be quietly pardoned when nobody's looking) or they were somehow duped into having a go by false intel. I suppose they could have just been incredibly stupid.
  In any case, Turdipan's making the best of it - if even a tenth of the accused were really in on it they'd have won.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
17. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by mujadaddy · 2016-12-27 06:39 · Score: 1
  
  Hm, history would tell us that the "false intel" is how the "false flag" is carried out.
  I also have some theories along those lines about the assassination of the Russian ambassador last week. The scene was too controlled.
  
  --
  Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
  "Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
18. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Hognoxious · 2016-12-27 07:32 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps false flag was the wrong expression, but the situations I mentioned are quite distinct; in one case the rebel leader is a rube, in the other he's a stooge.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
19. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by mujadaddy · 2016-12-27 07:56 · Score: 1
  
  We are agreeing. Just saying that history shows that stooges are often, if not exclusively, egged on and funded by government agents.
  
  --
  Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
  "Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
20. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by mujadaddy · 2016-12-27 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  Err, "rube" not stooge, to be clear.
  
  --
  Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
  "Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
21. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 13:06 · Score: 0
  
  "Outlook over HTTPS luckily still works"
  Seems like a clue to me.
22. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 14:47 · Score: 0
  
  I (not the other AC above) would draw the line at "corporation of any type" rather than "sole proprietorship". I.e. if you're an unincorporated business, so you do NOT get corporate limitation of liability, your personal assets are on the line for any screwup your business makes, then I can live with a libertarian perspective that says you can refuse service to anyone you want.
  The minute your biz is incorporated (sole proprietorship or not) it's no longer an entity with natural rights, so it has to follow the anti-discrimination laws.
23. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by swell · 2016-12-27 17:03 · Score: 1
  
  "an operation completely in the control of Erdogan's government"
  Exactly. That's what I thought from the moment the story came out. I don't understand why no media is considering this. They love to quote Erdogan (and any politician's lies) but are they just afraid to confront what seems an obvious truth?
  Erdogan was conveniently away when the 'coup' occurred. He walked right back in and effortlessly took control by arresting and killing many 'offenders'. Certainly the local press has suffered its share and I appreciate the fear that they are under, but why hasn't the world press stood up for truth?
  Turkey was trying to join the EU and it seemed possible for a while. Now it seems completely hopeless as they seek any excuse to slaughter the Kurds and their own people. As they suppress freedoms of any consequence and advance the dictatorship. I'm or Armenian descent, BTW, and I would add that genocidal history to the ongoing oppression in Turkey.
  
  --
  ...omphaloskepsis often...
24. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 21:59 · Score: 0
  
  http://heatst.com/tech/germany...
  It's not just the democrats pushing in this direction. Where this leads is obvious, and it's a serious concern if you value the free press.
25. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 23:01 · Score: 0
  
  One question to ask to the Slashdot community: With the increasing level of censorship in Turkey, what are the best plug-and-play options for people in the country to continue to have access (i.e. without having to set up a personal VPN-service)?
26. Re:As Someone Actually In Turkey by mujadaddy · 2016-12-28 04:23 · Score: 1
  
  Hmm. I'm not sure that line exists. I'm sure that we would have "lunch counter" problems, still, in such instances.
  I don't think that individuals have a natural right to refuse nominally-public-accommodation. I could be persuaded otherwise, but I am pretty sure that "Equal Protection Under the Law" has this interpretation.
  The guiding principle is The Golden Rule. Why is it acceptable for someone's business to be rejected based on arbitrary criteria? Laws to eliminate patterns of discrimination are hardly a bad thing, no?
  
  --
  Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
  "Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
because terrorist by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 03:55 · Score: 0

Because everybody with an opinion that's not the same as the Ak party is a terrorist. Poor Turkish people..
1. Re:because terrorist by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 05:36 · Score: 0
  
  Why poor Turkish people? As far as I can tell, they voted him in, and refuse to do anything to kick him out.
  They made their bed, now they can sleep in it.
Re:Hooray for Islam! Go Erdogan! by MightyMartian · 2016-12-27 03:57 · Score: 2

Go read your Old Testament. The Bible is hardly any better.

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Re: Hooray for Islam! Go Erdogan! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:02 · Score: 0

Atheists killed over a hundred millions last century.
Re: Hooray for Islam! Go Erdogan! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:14 · Score: 0

Nope, they worshiped a god.
Power. The most dangerous and brutal god of them all.
Re:Hooray for Islam! Go Erdogan! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:33 · Score: 0

Go read your Old Testament. The Bible is hardly any better.
So you have to reach back thousands of years to try to paint Christianity as equivalent to Islam.
How about comparing the Koran to the New Testament?
You shallow fuckwit.
Fuck Turkey by AndyKron · 2016-12-27 04:38 · Score: 0

Fuck Turkey. Kick them out of NATO, and sanction them until they cry like a little girl
1. Re:Fuck Turkey by Freischutz · 2016-12-27 05:25 · Score: 2
  
  Fuck Turkey. Kick them out of NATO, and sanction them until they cry like a little girl
  And drive Turkey into the arms of the Kremlin? I don't think so. The only thing we can do is ride the Erdogan phenomenon out just like the rest of the world is going to have to ride out 8 years of the Trump/Putin man crush phenomenon hoping that none of these ass holes starts WWIII in a temper tantrum over a crass joke by some talk show host suggesting that Erdogan has a crush on a goat, a comedian cracking jokes about Putin seasoning other peoples tea with Polonium or a ill conceived face loosing POTUS tweet about China.
2. Re: Fuck Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 06:55 · Score: 0
  
  Erdogan loves the goat booty.
3. Re:Fuck Turkey by unixisc · 2016-12-27 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  Name me one thing Turkey has done that is pro-NATO since 1991. For example, when the Bosnia war was on, why did Turkey not choose to be one to support Bosnia? They refused to support the US in Iraq, thereby making it clear that they're not pro Western by any stretch of imagination.
  Although truth be told, NATO is obsolete - has been since 1991. Trump was right - it's high time that the US pull out of it. Islam has long replaced Communism as the ideological threat to the world, and so the US needs to pick new allies against it - Israel, India, Thailand, Australia, et al - countries around the fringes of dar ul Islam. The Europeans are not a part of this alliance, and have to determine whether they wanna continue down their current track and duly Islamize, or elect neo Nazi parties to thwart such trends. It's time for a brand new alliance w/ a completely different group of countries anyway
4. Re:Fuck Turkey by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 11:40 · Score: 0
  
  Name me one thing Turkey has done that is pro-NATO since 1991. For example, when the Bosnia war was on, why did Turkey not choose to be one to support Bosnia? They refused to support the US in Iraq, thereby making it clear that they're not pro Western by any stretch of imagination.
  No, they just saw Iraq II war for the fucked up quagmire it became along with a whole string of countries in Europe and the Middle East.
  
  Although truth be told, NATO is obsolete - has been since 1991. Trump was right - it's high time that the US pull out of it. Islam has long replaced Communism as the ideological threat to the world, and so the US needs to pick new allies against it - Israel, India, Thailand, Australia, et al - countries around the fringes of dar ul Islam. The Europeans are not a part of this alliance, and have to determine whether they wanna continue down their current track and duly Islamize, or elect neo Nazi parties to thwart such trends. It's time for a brand new alliance w/ a completely different group of countries anyway
  So, you have a man crush on Putin too? How's that working out for you?
Turkey better watch out by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 04:59 · Score: 0

Because I'm Hungary! Nom Nom nom
Re:Hooray for Islam! Go Erdogan! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 05:01 · Score: 0

So you have to reach back thousands of years to try to paint Christianity as equivalent to Islam.
No, if desired, you can do that today.
There's some scary fuckwits out there in the Christian Dominion movement.
It's not the book that matters, somebody could do a number with a copy of See Spot Run.
That's not the inescapable question by ubrgeek · 2016-12-27 05:42 · Score: 1

The "inescapable question" is how many of them are journalists.

--
Bark less. Wag more.
1. Re:That's not the inescapable question by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 06:11 · Score: 0
  
  The inescapable question is why they are using social media traceable to themselves at all.
Re:Hooray for Islam! Go Erdogan! by MightyMartian · 2016-12-27 05:55 · Score: 1

Thousands of years? I can point to the Southern Baptist Convention, which just abandoned its white supremacist credo a decade ago. Christendom's history is not a wonderful story of tolerance, and it was just as often spread by the sword as Islam was. And when Christendom in Europe had forceably destroyed the last vestiges of paganism in the Baltic principalities via the kindly ministrations of the Teutonic Knights, Christians turned on each other.

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Coming soon to a country near you by nehumanuscrede · 2016-12-27 07:11 · Score: 2

" Suspected of backing terrorism "
is easily translated into
" Disagree with how we are running things so we slap a terrorist label on them and prosecute accordingly "
IRS already at work by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 07:22 · Score: 0

As opposed to what we currently do?
"Disagree with how we are running things so we send the IRS after them"
Re: Hooray for Islam! Go Erdogan! by KiloByte · 2016-12-27 09:05 · Score: 1
Atheists killed over a hundred millions last century.
Let's compare christianity with communism:
- scripture
- clergy
- portraits of prophets everywhere
- saints and martyrs
- promise of paradise (after death vs on Earth)
- proselytism
- intense hatred towards non-believers
- ceremonies
- processions (heck, in primary school I was forced to both go to May 1st parade ("absence will cause expulsion from school") then a few years later to Corpus Christi)
So, uhm, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but doesn't self-identify as a duck...
--
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
The lib-left does it too by knorthern+knight · 2016-12-27 12:11 · Score: 2

> Anytime someone asks questions about my concern for privacy online and why
> I find data collection so dangerous ("But I am doing nothing wrong and
> have nothing to hide, so why should I care?"), I point to McCarthyism
> and the anti-communism mania from the 1940's and 1950's. In the late 1940's,
> the House Committee on Un-American Activities (Yes, that's really the
> name of a U.S. House of Representatives investigative committee) began to
> subpoena Hollywood types (screenwriters, directors, actors, etc.) and ask
> them to testify about known or suspected membership in the Communist
> Party, association with its members, or support of its beliefs.
In 2008, Brendan Eich donated $1,000 to the campaign for California Proposition 8 (2008) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... to ban same-sex marriage. This was not an extremist niche idea. Proposition 8 won the support of a majority of voters, and passed into law.
Less than 6 years later, he became CEO of Mozilla Corporation. Gay activists found out about his contribution, and had him run out of office. Of course, if he had fired an employee for supporting gay rights, the lib-left and the courts would've been all over him.
The take-away is that just because you support the majority opinion today, don't expect to be immune tomorrow.

--

I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
1. Re:The lib-left does it too by Darinbob · 2016-12-27 13:40 · Score: 1
  
  The government did not do this. Do you not see the difference between official government supported discrimination of political beliefs and a corporation responding to public feelings? You can ignore the private citizen extremists who want purity of thought (on the left and the right), but you can't ignore it when the government decides what you should or should not think.
Backing west ambitions by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-27 12:26 · Score: 0

The coup in Turkey was CIA instigated, so they probably know how many sympatizers are under investigation. Erdogan is cleaning Turkey of thousands of conspirators willing to sell their country for some of the Qatar-Greece pipeline money. This purge is undoing decades of subversive work.