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France Begins Opt-Out Organ Donation (theoutline.com)

Posted by msmash on from the interesting-moves dept.

Laura June, reporting for The Outline: France began to use a new opt-out system of organ donation on Jan. 1, making it one of a large number of European nations that now use a "presumed consent" system. This means that any adult who dies will now donate their organs by default, regardless of their survivors' wishes, unless they have signed a refusal registry in advance. The new law gets around what has historically been a stumbling block for organ donation: the surviving families of the deceased. A survey in France previously showed that while up to 80 percent of the population was in favor of donating their own organs, about 40 percent of families refuse when pressed to make the choice.

11 of 445 comments (clear)

  1. NIMBY in full effect by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sure I'm for donations, they might save my life!

    But I'd want to receive, not give!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:NIMBY in full effect by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think they should be tied together. Unless you have some sort actual medical reason as to why you should not be an organ donor (HIV infection, ect.) opting out should put you on the bottom of the donation list should you need it. If you contribute to the system, you get priority if you need the system. Otherwise, you go to the back of the line. Don't expect to receive if you're not willing to give.

      I just don't get the mentality of people who refuse organ donation. If you're dead, you're dead, why take other people with you? It's one last act of good that could save lives and, seeing as how you're never going to use them again, costs you absolutely nothing. How big of a prick do you have to be to look at that proposition and reject it?

    2. Re:NIMBY in full effect by mysidia · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I just don't get the mentality of people who refuse organ donation. If you're dead, you're dead, why take other people with you?

      The concern is not "If you're dead". The concern is, If i'm in critical condition, the hospital that knows I'm a potential organ donor
      may treat me differently in a manner that makes me less likely to survive, Or they may prematurely declare me dead out of concern for
      the organs they could get from me to save someone else..... perhaps someone they deem "More worthy" of being saved.

    3. Re:NIMBY in full effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which is an issue that an opt out system mitigates nicely. The more donors there are, the less likelihood of unethical behavior.

    4. Re:NIMBY in full effect by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      The fact is in an ER you don't necessarily get the opportunity to have a 2nd opinion about you being pronounced legally dead.

      If you are that far gone, you are likely better off dead anyway. It is a common scene in movies for the hero to flat-line, be revived with CPR and/or defib, and then be running, jumping and doing gymnastics a few minutes later. That is BS. Most people given CPR/defib don't survive or only survive for a few miserable hours or days, and even those that last longer usually have a very poor quality of life. They often are confined to bed or a wheelchair and often suffer brain damage.

      People that work in ERs, or once worked there, are the most likely to ask for "Do Not Resuscitate" or DNR orders when they are hospitalized.

    5. Re:NIMBY in full effect by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd rather them not turn me off prematurely just so they can steal my organs, thanks.

      Cases in point: http://legalpublication.blogsp...

      http://www.cbsnews.com/news/or...

      And here's the icing on the cake: http://www.melissacaulk.com/th...

      I'll just leave this here form the article:

      "In a shocking statement, Dr. Neil Lazar, Director of the Medical-Surgical Intensive Care unit at Toronto General Hospital, says the focus should be on the well-being of donors rather than whether they are legally dead. That could mean giving anesthetics during organ harvesting.

      He and his co-authors, Dr. Maxwell J. Smith of the University of Toronto, and David Rodriguez-Arias of Universidad del Pais Vasco in Spain, advocate replacing the current “dead-donor rule” with a policy that educates the public about the true nature of patients used in transplants, obtain informed consent from everyone — and ensure the donor does not suffer during the organ harvesting. The study was published in the American Journal of Bioethics.

      The authors state frankly that under current practices donors may be technically still alive when organs are harvested – a necessary condition to produce healthy, living organs. Because of this, they say that protocol requiring a donor’s death is “dangerously misleading,” and could overlook the well-being of the donor who may still be able to suffer during the harvesting procedure.

      All I know is that if I need anesthetics while they are ripping me apart, I might have a few concerns about whether I am dead or not.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    6. Re:NIMBY in full effect by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      People that work in ERs, or once worked there, are the most likely to ask for "Do Not Resuscitate" or DNR orders when they are hospitalized.

      When my wife Sue was diagnosed with fatal brain tumor the day before Thanksgiving 2005, she completed a health-care proxy (living will) stating that no extraordinary measures should be used and a DNR. When her brain stem was damaged six weeks later, she fell into a coma and I had the fun task of re-asserting her DNR. She died a week later on Jan 13, 2006. Sue was a teacher so, instead of donating her organs, she donated her body to science. She was only 61 (I was then 42) and in excellent health (other than the brain tumor) and most donors are much older and in poorer health, so the Virginia Anatomical Program was very happy to have her (so to speak).

      I have also completed a living will and healthcare proxy form and registered them with the U.S. Living Will Registry specifying no extraordinary measures and registered with the Virginia State Anatomical Program to have my body donated to science.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    7. Re:NIMBY in full effect by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Do you have a link to that data? A quick Google turned up nothing.

      Personally I'm more concerned with being kept alive too long. The last thing I want is to live in pain or unable to move.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:NIMBY in full effect by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Informative

      I could see that problem in the US, in France, there isn't really a financial incentive to the hospital to harvest body parts.

      Also, the stories about people waking in the morgue are lovely tales from the crypt, but have little to do with reality, and have not had for at least 100 years now.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re: NIMBY in full effect by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

      I know, I don't want to donate my organs

      Why not, what else will you be doing with them once you are dead ?

      Play with it. I was born playing with my organ, I've lived my whole life playing with it, and if death is as boring as life, I'll want to be able to play with it when I'm dead.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    10. Re:NIMBY in full effect by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 4, Informative

      I could see that problem in the US, in France, there isn't really a financial incentive to the hospital to harvest body parts.

      Also, the stories about people waking in the morgue are lovely tales from the crypt, but have little to do with reality, and have not had for at least 100 years now.

      Nope, actually, it's just a lot rarer now--in the first world, anyway, and the general expectation now is that it means somebody botched their job. I think the last case was ~25 years ago, was a little old lady, and she was kicking around long enough afterwards to get interviewed. (I didn't catch much about the case, except apparently the fact that they put her in the freezer saved her life.)

      Incidentally, it's cases like that which get brought up when somebody suggests being less careful in checking.

      As for the issue with brain death--I think the paper discussing the problems getting noticed in correctly determining the amount of brain activity was published in 2015. I would very much enjoy reading it, but it's very much a current and ongoing problem in neuro.

      As for financial incentives in France--can't tell you, I don't read French and any reports that go into the inner workings of France's organ donation system are almost certainly going to be in French. I can, however, with great confidence state that both the US and France have them as being supposed to be donations--because both countries are in pretty explicit agreement on payments being unethical--meaning that no financial incentive should exist, period, in either country.