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Tesla Gigafactory Begins Production (reuters.com)
Thelasko writes: Right on schedule, Tesla's Gigafactory has begun production of battery cells. The fact that the factory has opened on schedule has surprised many critics of the company. Reuters reports: "Electric car maker Tesla Motors Inc has started mass production of lithium-ion battery cells at its gigafactory in Nevada along with Japan's Panasonic Corp, the company said on Wednesday. The cylindrical '2170 cells,' which will be used to power Tesla's energy storage products and the new Model 3 sedan, have been jointly designed by Tesla and Panasonic, its longstanding battery partner. The gigafactory will initially produce battery cells for the company's Powerwall 2 and Powerpack 2 energy products, Tesla said. The factory is expected to drive down the cost of battery packs by more than 30 percent, the company has said. At peak production, the gigafactory is expected to employ 6,500 workers and create between 20,000 and 30,000 additional jobs in the surrounding regions, Tesla said."
I understand that they are making these primarily for cars, but does Tesla have any plans to make consumer-friendly Lithium-ion batteries for general use? Seems like they could easily make these, and drive down the costs of these things pretty dramatically. Looking quickly on Google, general-use batteries seem to run hundreds of dollars. I'd be interested in one for various purposes if it dropped down into a $50-$100 range.
Aside from the PowerWall / PowerPacks, I think that'll be left to Panasonic and I'm betting it may be written into their agreements.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
100% of your products can't be loss leaders.
Typically that makes them an excellent buy as a consumer. I don't care how they stay in business, if only all my products that I buy had this value per dollar spent I'd be much happier. Personally all that means for me is I would stay away from investment.
Laptop, not flashlight.
Ok, if you want to be pedantic, laptop AND flashlight battery.. Not to mention e-cigs, bluetooth speakers, and a zillion other things the nearly ubiquitous 18650 is used for.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have backups to corrupt.
I understand that they are making these primarily for cars, but does Tesla have any plans to make consumer-friendly Lithium-ion batteries for general use?
It seems unlikely. Panasonic agreed to create the 2170 form factor specifically for Tesla. Tesla likes have large numbers of smaller, cylindrical cells because they can build packs out of them that give them finer control and better cooling than the large monolithic cells you seem to be referring to (very imprecisely). They're just a little bit bigger in both dimensions than an 18650 in order to improve the power density of the packs, while not losing the aforementioned advantages.
Because it's a custom Tesla-specific cell form factor, it's very likely a Tesla-exclusive contract as well. Panasonic is making these in a Tesla factory for Tesla, and nobody else. So when you start seeing advertising for Panasonic 2170 cells on Alibaba, don't try to buy them. They'll be fake. You're unlikely to see any real new 2170 bare cells on the open market. What you may see are used ones coming from someone buying a wrecked Tesla and tearing apart the battery pack. What you'll probably see is a noticeable drop in the price of 18650 cells. Tesla will be transitioning the Model S and Model X to redesigned packs with the new form factor (whether or not they announced it—it's just how they roll). That will significantly reduce worldwide demand for 18650s. Unless some cartel behavior comes into play, prices should fall.
You need lots of cells to balance the pack. Li-ion are finicky. That's one reason the giga factory is so large: you need a huge inventory because (1) the cells need to age and (2) the more cells you have the easier you can find a matched set for a well balanced battery. Tesla batteries perform really well, in part because of the effort that goes into selecting the cells that go into each one.
I don't care how they stay in business
Perhaps you should. Selling below cost initially is how monopolies are created. A company can sell at a loss for a while if they know this means driving off the competition. They don't need to drive everyone off, just diminish the ability for any competition to arise to the point that they can charge a premium for a substandard product. They would be betting on the ability for them to undercut any future competition later with greater volume (lower margins) and/or some reserves in resources to outlast the competition in a price war. This might not apply to electric cars exactly since this is not the kind of fight that a small company like Tesla can win against the likes of Ford and GM.
What is another tactic, and more likely one that Tesla could employ, is the ability to sell at a loss now knowing that the customer will likely return to them for services in the future. If this means selling another car in the future then perhaps there is nothing wrong with that. If this means selling critical parts like a battery then this might be a problem. Tesla would be in a position to overcharge for the battery to make up for a loss on the initial sale. If customers somehow feel compelled to continue using an electric car then Tesla would be in a position to also overcharge for the next vehicle too.
If Tesla is able to sell below costs because of government incentives, like subsidies or lowered taxes, then you are paying for this below cost pricing even if you are never a Tesla customer.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. You are going to bear the costs in some way.
What bothers me most is when the below cost pricing is due to government interference. In that case I'm paying for some rich guy to buy a new car when I can't afford my own. This is a subsidy that takes from the poor and gives to the wealthy. All energy subsidies do this really, take from the poor to further enrich the wealthy. I'd rather I be able to keep my money, perhaps then I can afford some new windows on my house. If you want to see people saving the environment then we need to stop these subsidies so people like me can buy some new windows, attic insulation, or even just a new pair of wool socks, and not have to spend so much on heating.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
No, you simply have no clue about the topic.
The grid already uses batteries - not extensively, but more and more each year. And they're going li-ion. My brother in law works for one such company, they just bought their first grid-scale li-ion bank. Li-ion is often coming in cheaper than even flow batteries nowadays. But it still has more to fall before competing with general peaking, it's mainly useful for very short surge loads, voltage maintenance on long lines, things of that nature. Within a decade or so, though, it may be giving peaking a run for its money. It depends on how well the pricing trends hold and progress.
That doesn't mean that li-ion is inherently the future. Other techs (some old, some new) are trying to beat li-ion on price, and may well succeed. But li-ion is is used in the grid, today. And the lower its price falls, the more it'll be used.
For the love of Crom, am I the only one here who wants to keep the U.S. technologically competitive?