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US EPA Accuses Fiat Chrysler of Excess Diesel Emissions (yahoo.com)
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Thursday accused Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV of illegally using hidden software to allow excess diesel emissions to go undetected, the result of a probe that stemmed from regulators' investigation of rival Volkswagen AG. From a report: FCA shares plummeted as the maximum fine is about $4.6 billion. The EPA action affects 104,000 U.S. trucks and SUVs sold since 2014, about one-sixth the vehicles in the Volkswagen case. The EPA and California Air Resources Board told Fiat Chrysler it believes its undeclared auxiliary emissions control software allowed vehicles to generate excess pollution in violation of the law. Fiat Chrysler Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne angrily rejected the allegations at a hastily-assembled conference call with reporters, saying there was no wrongdoing and the company never attempted to create software to cheat emissions rules by detecting when the vehicle was in test mode.
probably from all the cheetos and mountain dew
Thank you for being a friend
Traveled down the road and back again
Your heart is true, you're a pal and a cosmonaut.
And if you threw a party
Invited everyone you knew
You would see the biggest gift would be from me
And the card attached would say, thank you for being a friend.
and insist that its fake news.
Who hasn't see the insanely lifted ford f(x)50 or dodge ram pickup belching out huge plumes of black sooty smoke in California? Hell there are people so blatant they are running dual 6-8 inch smokestacks that literally vomit black smoke into the air. And yet somehow you see them every week despite the fact that they must pass a dozen sheriff or CHP patrol cars on their way to/from work/home.
While I am all for catching this emission cheating on the part of manufacturers, the state and federal governments are really dropping the ball in regards to blatant violations of emissions controls on diesel in California, and the majority of them are not just blatantly aware of what they're doing, as in the case of VW and Fiat/Chrysler, but flagrantly violating the law knowing full well what they are doing and the fact that most enforcement branches won't actively seek out and ticket them because of the good ole boy system (and yes it exists even in California.)
is really attacking foreign corporations because he is racist. He hates them for not being one of his racist American kind. That is how our President be now.
US EPA accuses Fiat Chrysler of cheating on emissions test. A much more serious offense than having excessive emissions.
The problem was discovered with new testing that better measures real-world emissions. The new tests were implemented in the wake of the VW scandal.
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"Most vehicles pass these tests," said Giles. "It is by no means impossible to make a clean diesel passenger vehicle that meets these standards."
I though there were some people saying you couldn't make a diesel passenger vehicle the EPA liked, emissions wise. Am I wrong?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Fiat and VW have no love for you and your failed ideology.
Buy a plug-in electric car, SUV, or truck (they sell them for $9000 in China today and in First World nations like Canada) and stick it to the man.
Take back your own money and fill your tank with electrons that cost 1/20th what imported Russian gasoline does.
Or do you want to keep being serfs to your foreign masters?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Who thought it was a good idea for any part of emissions testing to rely on a query to the entity being tested?
"I'm doing everything very efficiently, I promise!"
-Everyone
The only way that this would possibly be ok would be if the emissions testing system being queried was from a 3rd party that was forced to be installed in the vehicle. But I can see problems with that, too. If you are literally testing to see if a part is breaking the law or not, why the hell would you ever ask the manufacturer if the part is breaking the law?
They need to test them driving around as well as sitting on a dyno. And they should not be allowing manufacturers to make any changes (e.g. taping intakes to reduce drag), the standardized testing is good but you also need to have some real world smoke (ha ha) tests.
I expected this was going to happen. I also expect that in the days to come, we're going to find that every single auto manufacturer has been cheating in some way or another, and that in the end, they're all going to say that the emissions standards were impossible to meet without cheating.
Hell there are people so blatant they are running dual 6-8 inch smokestacks that literally vomit black smoke into the air.
Ever see how they do that? They actually burn extra fuel to "prove a point". They're just narcissists. And they get annoyed when they're called stupid.
And then there are the narcissists with their loud motorcycles. "Loud pipes saves lives! D'uuuuuhhhhhhhhhh"
California reached a nexus point on this issue in the 1990s. See, emissions testing is cost-effective only if a significant fraction of the vehicles are in violation. If a smog test costs $40, and 10% of the cars are failing, then it's costing the economy $400 to detect each non-compliant car. If the excess pollution the car was putting out costs the economy (say) $1000, then testing is a cost-effective way to get these polluting cars fixed or off the road.
But what if the program is successful and compliance rates increases to 99%? Then you're spending $4000 to detect each non-compliant car, and the cost to detect these polluting cars exceeds the damage they do. That's the situation California found itself in in the 1990s.
The companies which made emissions testing equipment came up with a radical suggestion. Get rid of the annual smog tests. Instead, mount emissions detecting equipment at areas where cars normally slow down to pass. Freeway off-ramps, intersections, etc. The equipment would constantly detect emissions, and when it saw a spike in emissions it would snap a photo of the offending car(s). If the same car's plates showed up in multiple photos, you could send that registered owner a fix-it ticket requiring they bring the car in for testing. This way you're not wasting time or money dealing with the 99% of cars which are in compliance, and only spending extra money testing the 1% of cars which are probably in violation.
Unfortunately by the 1990s, smog testing in California had grown into a billion dollar industry. The service stations and smog test stations lobbied hard in Sacramento to kill this idea. They won, and so we still require smog tests today even though the vast majority of cars pass. It's worth nothing that an on-road emissions detection system would've caught the violating VWs nearly a decade ago when they first started cheating.
I suspect this will play out like the doping scandals in sports -- everyone is doing it because if you're not, then you're at a competitive disadvantage.
I'm sure this is why none of the other manufacturers called our VW for this practice before the EPA found out... they didn't want to raise attention to it. I'm sure they all knew about.... if one manufacturer released an engine that met impossible-to-meet standards, you can bet that they all dissected the engine to see how they did it.
Unfortunately by the 1990s, smog testing in California had grown into a billion dollar industry. The service stations and smog test stations lobbied hard in Sacramento to kill this idea. They won, and so we still require smog tests today even though the vast majority of cars pass. It's worth nothing that an on-road emissions detection system would've caught the violating VWs nearly a decade ago when they first started cheating.
so we should sue service stations and smog test stations instead of banrupting a company and causing the loss of countless jobs?
What's worse: Illegal emissions software, or dropping over 26,000 bombs in 2016 alone without any declaration of war? I'd say our government is far worse than Fiat. But then again, nobody seems to care about that except for the people who are watching their loved ones getting blown to pieces every day.
The joke is on them when they foul their urea emissions system and find out the price of repairs.
Smog tests have sort of a dual purpose in Cali.
We don't have vehicle inspections but smog tests effectively get the dangerous junkers off the roads all the same - The old, poorly maintained cars fail smog before they become unsound and unsafe. Get rid of smog tests and we'd have to add safety inspections. You would not save any money or time.
If you were alive in the 60s and 70s you'd remember the miasma, the horrible smog in even the mid-sized towns and cities. There are a LOT of cars in California and dealing with the emission problem is worth the price.
lets not forget the massive fraud the got cought doing of failing cars that passed just so they could fine people.
you be an idiot
In California cars manufactured 1975 and earlier are exempt from smog testing.
A car from 1976 is generally considered old. Even a car from the 90s is getting pretty up in years and might have a hard time passing smog.
... How many diesel Fiats and Chryslers are on the road ??
Today there aren't many of these on the road in general use for this to be an issue.
Lets just clear up everyone's confusion. Diesel is and always has been more efficient per gallon due to combustion via compression as well as the higher inherent energy content of diesel fuel versus the Otto cycle that uses a spark ignition and generally heptane/octane (collectively known as gasoline). That said, diesel fuel results in REAL POLLUTION. The kind that causes cancer, burning eyes, asthma, headaches etc.
Quoted from Wikipedia:
"Emissions from diesel vehicles have been reported to be significantly more harmful than those from petrol vehicles. Diesel combustion exhaust is a source of atmospheric soot and fine particles, which is a component of the air pollution implicated in human cancer, heart and lung damage, and mental functioning. Moreover, diesel exhaust contains contaminants listed as carcinogenic for humans by the IARC (part of the World Health Organization of the United Nations), as present in their List of IARC Group 1 carcinogens. Diesel exhaust pollution is thought to account for around one quarter of the pollution in the air in previous decades, and a high share of sickness caused by automotive pollution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Using diesel for passenger vehicles or anywhere other than a powerplant or other application with room for a large, advanced air scrubber on the exhaust is and always has been a bad idea.
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
This is exactly what happens when we let business regulate itself. It's really not surprising in the least. I would bet dollars to donuts that every major car manufacturer is guilty.
And now the Big Orange Blowhard & cronies are going to dismantle the EPA and eliminate regulations? Hello, global climate change.
It's been known for a while that petrol engines actually produce more particulates, often by an order of magnitude, but since the average size is smaller, they were previously not noticed. However, smaller particulates are also thought to be much more harmful, since they penetrate further into the lungs and are more likely to enter the bloodstream. In addition, petrol engines produce more volatile organic compounds, many of which known or suspected to be carcinogenic.
Fortunately, the EU will require petrol cars to meet the same particulate number limit that diesels already have to obey. In practice, this will mean that they will need a particulate trap, just like diesels. It won't be as efficient, though, because of the smaller particulate size, but at least it won't need regeneration due to the higher temperature of petrol engine exhaust. Daimler and VW have already announced that all new models with petrol engines will have particulate traps starting this year. I hope the rest will follow. Although it won't solve the VOC problem, it will make the gap between diesels and petrols a lot smaller.
Unfortunately by the 1990s, smog testing in California had grown into a billion dollar industry. The service stations and smog test stations lobbied hard in Sacramento to kill this idea. They won, and so we still require smog tests today even though the vast majority of cars pass. It's worth nothing that an on-road emissions detection system would've caught the violating VWs nearly a decade ago when they first started cheating.
VW and Fiat Chrysler cheated on NOx emissions, not on particulates or volatile organic compounds. A smog test would not have found it.