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New Wyoming Bill Penalizes Utilities Using Renewable Energy (csmonitor.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a Christian Science Monitor report on "a bill that would essentially ban large-scale renewable energy" in Wyoming. The new Wyoming bill would forbid utilities from using solar or wind sources for their electricity by 2019, according to Inside Climate News... The bill would require utilities to use "eligible resources" to meet 95 percent of Wyoming's electricity needs in 2018, and all of its electricity needs in 2019. Those "eligible resources" are defined solely as coal, hydroelectric, natural gas, nuclear, oil, and individual net metering... Utility-scale wind and solar farms are not included in the bill's list of "eligible resources," making it illegal for Wyoming utilities to use them in any way if the legislation passes. The bill calls for a fine of $10 per megawatt-hour of electricity from a renewable source to be slapped on Wyoming utilities that provide power from unapproved sources to in-state customers.
The bill also prohibits utilities from raising rates to cover the cost of those penalties, though utilities wouldn't be penalized if they exported that energy to other states. But one local activist described it as 'talking-point' legislation, and even the bill's sponsor gives it only a 50% chance of passing.

28 of 502 comments (clear)

  1. Huh by barrywalker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The retards have really taken over, alright.

    If we don't burn ourselves up, we're headed for a really nice repeat of the dark ages.

    1. Re:Huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But I thought Republitards were all about government getting out of regulating businesses? Magic of the free market and all?

      Oh, they are just hypocritical? I guess whatever makes America great again.

    2. Re:Huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Jan 21, 2019 headline: Democrat super-majority in US House and Senate pass historic legislation requiring states to generate 50% of their power from renewable energy sources to qualify for any federal aid.

      Jan 21, 2021 headline: President Sanders signs historic Constitutional Amendment requiring states to generate 75% of their power from renewable energy sources to qualify for any federal aid.

      Checkmate, Wyoming.

      Wow.

      What temperature is the cosmic background radiation in your universe? It's about 2.7K in this universe.

      As long as Democrats remain the party of urban elites and write off the rest of the country, they might win some Presidential elections but they'll never regain the House or Senate. So what if the Democrats run up big popular vote totals in the huge cities of California and New York. Hell, the Democrats can't even win Pennsylvania with all the help from Philadelphia, or Michigan even with the help of "more votes than registered voters" fraud in Detroit.

      The fact that you mentioned "President Sanders" - who isn't a Democrat at all as he's officially a Socialist - means you don't realize that at all.

    3. Re:Huh by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or at least Trump goes around telling people he's the best fuck.
      I thought "Idoicracy" was supposed to be a satire.

    4. Re:Huh by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For each party's pet causes, the only difference that I see is that the Democrats don't pretend that they're not picking and choosing when to intrude. The Republicans seem to intrude just as much while claiming that they're not intruding.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    5. Re:Huh by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These are very persuasive sentiments. I wonder why the people of Wyoming don't listen to kind-hearted entreaties such as this?

      We should lie to the special snowflakes and not call out their stupidity?

      That's the new normal? Politicians in a state propose a stupid law and we should just praise the people who elected them because otherwise they might get upset?

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    6. Re:Huh by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In my experience they often propose a stupid, draconian or simply abusive law in the full expectation that it will get shot down. They can then claim they were stifled and shift blame to someone else, or introduce a lesser but still basically evil "compromise" bill that does get through. That latter one is a favourite technique for the current UK government.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  2. Ah, yes. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If this bill's author has had the temerity to claim to be in favor of 'freedom' or 'free markets'; and then pushes this nonsense, somebody needs to feed him to a wood chipper.

    1. Re:Ah, yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Passing a bill restricting others market freedom or freedom in general is not "speaking your mind". It is using force and stealing from people. That is certainly worthy of jail or death.

  3. It's a tax by tomhath · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Or more accurately, a backlash against subsidies - $10 per megawatt hour.

    1. Re:It's a tax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or more accurately, a backlash against subsidies - $10 per megawatt hour.

      If that were the case, they'd be fining utilities for the costs of their pollution-generating injury-causing facilities that we are subsidizing by treating in hospitals instead.

      They'd also apply a dollar charge for every barrel of oil that requires the Wyoming Navy to defend. Aircraft carriers don't come cheap.

    2. Re:It's a tax by quantaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or more accurately, a backlash against subsidies - $10 per megawatt hour.

      It's a middle finger to progressives.

      This is the problem with the political right at the moment. They're not trying to correct the market or protect local jobs, they're trying to rile up their base by pissing off people concerned about global warming.

      --
      I stole this Sig
  4. I'm ok with this... by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    as long as the CO2 from Wyoming is contained within Wyoming. They can build a dome and then suffocate if they like.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  5. Re: Wind and Solar are Environmental Disasters by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, the take-away is that birds are mostly blind?

    No. The take-away is that birds evolved before there were large obstacles moving at 70 mph, and large transparent areas on cliff faces. They rarely run into parked cars, or windowless buildings.

  6. Tables are turning by transporter_ii · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems like paid shills are posting under every renewable energy article about renewables not being viable without government subsidies. Well here you go. It seems that coal is now the one in need of government hand outs.

    --
    Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
    1. Re:Tables are turning by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And what would you call this proposed bill in Wyoming? It's an unapologetic subsidy to the coal industyr, because clearly the Wyoming government believes that the Wyoming coal industry will not be able to compete with renewables. Now maybe the justification boils down to "we get more taxes from coal than wind", but whatever that justification is, the intention is clear, Wyoming coal is seen as being at a competitive disadvantage, and therefore it will be subsidized by making renewable energy sources more expensive.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  7. Re: Wind and Solar are Environmental Disasters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't worry, evolution is fixing this issue right now.

  8. Re: Wind and Solar are Environmental Disasters by blindseer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, birds just run into things. I remember a study where someone tried to figure out why birds ran into windows so often. They found out that birds just run into things, like trees. I grew up on a farm where the birds liked to run into the farmhouse quite often. We'd hear them thump against the wall. Living in the suburbs now I still hear them thump, just not as often. This has probably less to do with where I live and more to do with the thicker walls on my current house compared to the house I grew up in.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  9. All about the fight by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Or more accurately, a backlash against subsidies - $10 per megawatt hour.

    It's a middle finger to progressives.

    This is the problem with the political right at the moment. They're not trying to correct the market or protect local jobs, they're trying to rile up their base by pissing off people concerned about global warming.

    And the problem with the left is that they can't compromise and won't evolve.

    I was just listening to Bill Maher from last night, and all the liberals encouraging the audience to fight, disrupt, oppose, insult(*), and combat everything the right wants to do.

    Nowhere did anyone say "we have to become better". Nothing about making better policies, making more intelligent arguments, doing things voters want, making the country better, or anything that could be considered noble.

    The fundamental difference between the left and the right, through the campaign and after, is that the right has tried to make themselves the better option, while the left tried to make the *other side* the worse option. Trump's speeches were warm and inclusive, saying essentially "we're in this together, we can win, we can do better". Clinton's speeches, delivered by others during campaign rallies, were essentially throwing insults at the other side.

    I don't think anyone on the left has a clue how ineffective their campaign of crying, whining, and insulting is. Their actions are not turning minds and swaying the voters they will need if they want to win future elections.

    I have no idea how they can continue with this ludicrous behaviour, but I'm sure the right will continue to laugh at them while they do it.

    (*) One of the panel members was saying "always call racism".

    1. Re:All about the fight by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And the problem with the left is that they can't compromise

      Often the "compromise" wanted is complete capitulation so the people who see themselves firmly on the "right" can appear "strong".
      Stupid fucking games instead of trying to run something properly. Edge cases on minor issues getting attention just to deliberately start a fight instead of actual governance.
      In a lot of cases it's not "left" or "right" but huge fucking egos trying to turkey slap everyone just to prove they have balls.

    2. Re:All about the fight by quantaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And the problem with the left is that they can't compromise and won't evolve.

      Have you been sleeping the past 8 years? The right refused compromise on principle.

      I was just listening to Bill Maher from last night, and all the liberals encouraging the audience to fight, disrupt, oppose, insult(*), and combat everything the right wants to do.

      I didn't see the segment in question, but I'm pretty sure he was talking about Trump, a character so dangerous the GOP spent most of the primary desperately trying to stop him.

      Nowhere did anyone say "we have to become better". Nothing about making better policies, making more intelligent arguments, doing things voters want, making the country better, or anything that could be considered noble.

      The left talks about that constantly, a huge part of the post-election conversation is trying to understand why the left lost touch with the white working class.

      But as to "better policies" and "intelligent arguments", a huge part of the criticism of Sanders was that his policies weren't robust. The right has spent the last few year using high deductibles as a major criticism of Obamacare, all the while selling high deductible coverage as their replacement.

      Trump's speeches were warm and inclusive, saying essentially "we're in this together, we can win, we can do better".

      "Warm and inclusive" is an odd description of mass deportation, immigration bans based on religion, promises to imprison your rival, and the constant demonization of the media.

      I don't think anyone on the left has a clue how ineffective their campaign of crying, whining, and insulting is.

      It can be very effective, whiny insulting campaign speeches won Trump the election.

      --
      I stole this Sig
  10. I'm conflicted on this by blindseer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not a fan of solar power. It's expensive, unreliable, and lacking any kind of storage or backup power it is pretty much useless. If given enough cheap storage then any energy source looks good. Which is one thing that boggles me about those that say, "Just you wait, when we get good batteries any day now then you'll love solar power." If we had this magical battery technology then why would we bother using solar power to charge it? Wind, nuclear, and even natural gas would be better choices. They are cheaper than solar, and with a battery for load balancing they'd meet every need for power without expensive and dirty peak power plants.

    I'm okay with wind. It's generally cheap when put in the right places. The problem is that with government subsidies they are not put in the right places. The subsidies are made to subsidize capacity, not necessarily output. So what happens is that windmills are put close to natural gas lines, so that the backup generators have fuel and they don't have to run a power line that isn't carrying power.

    Nuclear is good. It's the safest energy source we know of, based on deaths and injuries per MWh produced. It's got the lowest carbon output, if one believes that is even a problem. It's cheap, reliable, and domestically sourced. Any law that makes building nuclear power sounds good to me.

    A big problem for me though is that this messes with the free market. People should be able to choose where their energy comes from on their own. That means that not only is this bill a bad idea but so is those laws that made this bill necessary in the first place. Had they taken a gentler hand on this, by merely cancelling out the federal subsidies on these energy sources, then I could probably support it. They took it a bit far with these punitive taxes. But then this makes nuclear power look good.

    I'm torn on this one.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:I'm conflicted on this by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good point - the free market is biased between the quick solutions whether they are better in the long run or not, plus it tends to concentrate in places where profit is highest. Without government involvement we wouldn't have nukes and just about every farm and small town would still be dark just as it was more than fifty years after Edison lit up a profitable part of New York.

    2. Re:I'm conflicted on this by blindseer · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Solar is inexpensive enough that it can be installed in many places and financed over time so that the homeowner can save money and the company financing can make money.

      True only if the current government subsidies continue. Let's assume that government subsides didn't make the difference, that solar was considered inexpensive even if unsubsidized, then there is still the problem of placement. There's a lot of people that live in not so sunny areas. Rooftop solar might work in Sacramento but I doubt it will in Seattle.

      If you doubt any of this, you have to ask yourself: why does Wyoming need a law that discourages solar? Why not just let the market decide?

      I'm all for letting the market decide. This means ending those solar subsidies. This, at least IMHO, should mean ending residential backfeeding unless the utility actually asked for it. Laws requiring the utility to act as a battery for solar equipped homes is a subsidy in disguise.

      This is the coal industry fighting for its life.

      No doubt. It could also be the utilities getting fed up with having to accommodate the residential solar backfeeding to the grid. This back feeding is dangerous to line crews, a headache for demand planning, and a means to divert funds from those that can afford to buy solar power kit (the wealthy) on the backs of those that cannot (the poor).

      Part of the problem here is that the utilities are rarely ever asked if they want solar power on their grid. Laws require them to buy this power even if they don't want it. Let's bring this free market, I expect solar power to lose, and badly.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  11. Re:Wind and Solar are Environmental Disasters by CaptainDork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is about the Bakken oil fields that run through Wyoming.

    The US has a fossil fuel glut and renewable energy is not going to help that.

    I helped litigate Big Tobacco and fossil fuel is the back story here.

    They stab it with their steely knives
    But they just can't kill the beast

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  12. Re:Wyoming = big coal country by TWX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wind power in particular could also be a great way to ensure that grazing rights on lands are maintained, since there's no reason why a wind farm and ranching would have to be incompatible, and with the land already being several stages away from being pristine, no reason not to continue to leave grazing rights.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  13. Re: WY is a good place to be from by meglon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Might try comparing say... California... to shitholes like Kansas, idiot. Red states are predominantly leeches on blue states, and they still rank the shittiest states on pretty much any quality of living/prepping for the future index. I do understand though, fucking idiots like you can't be bothered with reality.

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  14. Re: Wind and Solar are Environmental Disasters by Type44Q · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Since 100C exhaust will toast a bird reasonably quickly

    You failed science and they didn't offer Home Ec?