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Scientist Investigate A Brand New Form of Matter: Time Crystals (sciencealert.com)

The discovery of "non-equilibrium matter" could re-write the rules of physics. Long-time Slashdot reader jasonbrown quotes ScienceAlert: For months now, there's been speculation that researchers might have finally created time crystals — strange crystals that have an atomic structure that repeats not just in space, but in time, putting them in perpetual motion without energy. Now it's official — researchers have just reported in detail how to make and measure these bizarre crystals. And two independent teams of scientists claim they've actually created time crystals in the lab based off this blueprint, confirming the existence of an entirely new form of matter.
Both teams -- one at Harvard and the other at the University of Maryland -- have submitted their findings to peer-reviewed publications, according to the article, and "the fact that two separate teams have used the same blueprint to make time crystals out of vastly different systems is promising."

29 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. Grow amazing crystals in minutes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Let me guess, all you need is bleach, ammonia, a penny, and blowing bubbles in it with a soda straw to grow these amazing 'time crystals'?

    1. Re: Grow amazing crystals in minutes! by kuzb · · Score: 2

      I didn't work myself up in to anything. You're just not reading the entirety of what is being said. Then again it never shocks me when someone from slashdot fails to read ... well, anything. If what they're saying is true, this is not anything like the matter we've been studying so far.

      Obviously this all falls in to the "too good to be true" category. Skepticism is the best course. Of course, you'd already know this if you had read my entire comment.

      --
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    2. Re: Grow amazing crystals in minutes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unlimited energy? First let's see if any possible energy output outweights the energy being put into the system -- the article clearly states is a "driven" system, to keep it out of equilibrium, which means work = energy is being put INTO the system.

      From what I understood, the magic is in the fact that the ground state of the crystal reoccurs at fixed time intervals, not that they are "magically moving".

  2. The article claims crystals are motionless by fredrated · · Score: 3, Interesting

    in their ground state.

    Usually when a material is in ground state, also known as the zero-point energy of a system, it means movement should theoretically be impossible, because that would require it to expend energy.

    However, that would violate quantum electrodynamics, because then you would know the atoms exact momentum and location.
    ???

    1. Re:The article claims crystals are motionless by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      Then cite the quote ....

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    2. Re:The article claims crystals are motionless by slew · · Score: 2

      I don't think Feynman said that, but apparently he did write this...

      Now although ice has a “rigid” crystalline form, its temperature can change—ice has heat. If we wish, we can change the amount of heat. What is the heat in the case of ice? The atoms are not standing still. They are jiggling and vibrating. So even though there is a definite order to the crystal—a definite structure—all of the atoms are vibrating “in place.” As we increase the temperature, they vibrate with greater and greater amplitude, until they shake themselves out of place. We call this melting. As we decrease the temperature, the vibration decreases and decreases until, at absolute zero, there is a minimum amount of vibration that the atoms can have, but not zero. This minimum amount of motion that atoms can have is not enough to melt a substance, with one exception: helium. Helium merely decreases the atomic motions as much as it can, but even at absolute zero there is still enough motion to keep it from freezing. Helium, even at absolute zero, does not freeze, unless the pressure is made so great as to make the atoms squash together. If we increase the pressure, we can make it solidify.

      I think most physicists would agree that even in the ground state, a crystal will have some "motion" which is related to their zero-point energy.

  3. 'twice the period'? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The two lasers that were periodically nudging the ytterbium atoms were producing a repetition in the system at twice the period of the nudges, something that couldn't occur in a normal system.

    When they're saying 'twice the period of the nudges', do they mean twice the frequency of the nudges, or twice the duration of the nudges? What I'm after here is, is whether or not they're actually implying that there's more energy coming out of this than is being put into it, and by the way unless I'm totally misreading it, it sounds like this isn't 'perpetual motion' at all, not in the sense I think of 'perpetual motion', because they have to 'nudge' it with a pulse from a laser to cause this effect to occur -- unless what I'm missing here, is that all they have to do is 'nudge' it once, and it starts a self-sustaining oscillation? Even if it's self-sustaining once started, isn't it then in a state of equilibrium regardless, and any attempt to tap into the energy of that oscillation would cause it to stop?

    1. Re:'twice the period'? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 3

      I did, jackass, and the physics is over my head, so we're discussing it here. If you have nothing of value to add to the conversation then shove off.

  4. Re:Sounds like bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Smarter people than you say otherwise:

    Time crystals may sound dangerously close to a perpetual motion machine, but it is worth emphasizing one key difference: while time crystals would indeed move periodically in an eternal loop, rotation occurs in the ground state, with no work being carried out nor any usable energy being extracted from the system. Finding time crystals would not amount to a violation of well-established principles of thermodynamics.

  5. Re:Practical Uses? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While cool i agree, and i can see perhaps some esoteric use beyond basic research, what sort of practical day-to-day use for the common man would there be?

    Quite likely, it's too early to tell.

    There is a story, perhaps apocryphal or misattributed, of then-prime-minister Benjamin Disraeli visiting Michael Faraday's lab, and asking Faraday "what use is electricity?" Faraday replied: "What use is a new-born baby?"

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  6. Can not get energy out by gurps_npc · · Score: 4, Informative

    Perpetual motion machines are allowed by the laws of physics. The galaxy is one for example, it perpetually rotates effectively forever, and by definition beyond what we can measure.

    What IS impossible, is to remove energy from the system. If you do that, any machine stops, eventually, unless you add it back in somehow.

    --
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    1. Re:Can not get energy out by Dorianny · · Score: 2

      Perpetual motion machines are allowed by the laws of physics. The galaxy is one for example, it perpetually rotates effectively forever, and by definition beyond what we can measure.

      What IS impossible, is to remove energy from the system. If you do that, any machine stops, eventually, unless you add it back in somehow.

      You are confiusing perpetual motion with a perpetual motion machine. In the simplest terms a machine is defined as something that does work. However perpetual motion is the simple act of moving through timespace. A simple photon is in perpetual motion. It will move at c until it hits something and it is absorbed. If the space between it and the closest thing that it can hit is expanding faster then c then it will remain in motion for eternity. This is the reason that there are galaxy's very far away that we can't see. Even though their light is in a direct path towards earth, it will never reatch us

  7. Re:Sounds like bullshit by ClickOnThis · · Score: 5, Informative

    Smarter people than you say otherwise:

    Time crystals may sound dangerously close to a perpetual motion machine, but it is worth emphasizing one key difference: while time crystals would indeed move periodically in an eternal loop, rotation occurs in the ground state, with no work being carried out nor any usable energy being extracted from the system. Finding time crystals would not amount to a violation of well-established principles of thermodynamics.

    This. Mod parent up.

    Quantum-mechanical systems in their ground state cannot radiate energy, because they are already in their lowest possible energy-state.

    --
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  8. Re: the lengths people will go to... by LaszloKerekes · · Score: 2

    Omg the timecube guy was right.....

  9. Re:But it's not even April 1st by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It sounds even more like a name of a classic Dr Who episode. ;)

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  10. Re:Practical Uses? by Harold+Halloway · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The one I know, also likely to be apocryphal, is where William Gladstone, then Chancellor of the Exchequer, asked the same question. Faraday's reputed reply was, "Why, sir, there is every probability that you will soon be able to tax it."

  11. Re:How do I make a time machine? by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

    Well, do you have a DeLorean ?

  12. Re:Sounds like bullshit by Derec01 · · Score: 2

    Anything that moves or vibrates radiates some energy. Hence such crystals would provide "free" energy and that is very, very, very unlikely to be possible in this universe.

    Nope, not necessarily. The state of the material is its lowest energy "ground" state. Quantum mechanical ground states can easily have overall dynamical motion, but avoid interaction with the electromagnetic field that would cause radiation because there's no state with lower energy. These will act the same as normal matter - they'll give off energy from breaking bonds when you break them, but are otherwise inert.

  13. Re:How do I make a time machine? by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 2

    You can buy some weak flux from an Engineering Supply Seller in Stormwind and make flux capacitors.

  14. Just like BEC, then. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Bose-Einstein Condensate has exactly the same property,except the regularity. The overlap of the particle wave means that the system moves inevitably, re-creating the bulk through time on the same organisation as the space bulk organisation.

  15. Re:Uh, so what? by JustOK · · Score: 4, Funny

    Newton wasn't a lawyer.

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  16. Re:Sounds like bullshit by mikael · · Score: 3, Informative

    What if something were so tightly packed that it started absorbing neutrinos and other particles that would normally travel straight through regular matter?

    Helium-4 seems to do something strange when cooled to a super-liquid - it's just not possible to cool down into a solid because the kinetic energy exceeds the electron bond strengths.

    https://phys.org/news/2009-05-...

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  17. Re: Sounds like bullshit by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

    I wonder, would an asteroid (or even the Earth itself) qualify as a time crystal?

    No, because it is not a crystal. My counter-wonder: what happened to the quality of Slashdot commentary?

    --
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  18. Re:But it's not even April 1st by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Funny

    Timey Wimey Crystals.

  19. Re:Practical Uses? by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

    This reads like a passage from a Hunter S. Thompson essay.

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  20. Re:Sounds like bullshit by quenda · · Score: 4, Funny

    Attempting to read the article made me feel dumb.
    So I read the comments, and now feel like a genius.

  21. Re:Sounds like bullshit by gweihir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And there the problem starts. It is fascinating to see how much deeply stupid people are around here that do not even understand how limited their understanding is. The current models for Quantum Mechanics are not truth. They are rough approximations and, if history is any indicator, quite a few things presented by the press as "truth" in there will turn out to have exceptions and inaccuracies. The other problem is that actual observation is now down to indirections of indirections and only mathematical models try to explain what is actually happening there. These models could easily be way off with the lack of quality in th experimental validation.

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  22. Re:SPOOKY by The-Ixian · · Score: 2

    Perhaps they could spread them on the ground in winter time so that people don't slip and fall on the ice?

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