'It's Tricky': Apple Misses the Deadline To Pay $13.9 Bn To Ireland in Illegal Tax Benefit (cnbc.com)

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'It's Tricky': Apple Misses the Deadline To Pay $13.9 Bn To Ireland in Illegal Tax Benefit (cnbc.com)

Posted by msmash on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @02:02AM from the tax-savings dept.

Apple has not fully paid the 13 billion euros ($13.9 billion) it owes to Ireland in illegal tax benefits even though the deadline has passed, the European Union's competition said on Tuesday. From a report: "Well the recovery is not done yet but we have been working with the Irish authorizes and we can see that they are moving forward to do the recovery of the unpaid taxes," EU Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager said during a press conference in response to a question by CNBC. "It's a tricky thing to do because it's a large sum so of course you have to figure out how to do that. It's not as an escrow account in some of the other cases where it might be 25 or 30 million euros ... and therefore I do respect that it's a complicated matter and it may take a little more time. Last year, the Commission ruled that Ireland must recover 13 billion euros in "illegal tax benefits" from Apple. It found that the U.S. technology giant paid an effective tax rate of 0.005 percent in Ireland in 2014.

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Cant pay by rainmouse · 2017-01-31 02:05 · Score: 5, Insightful

Hard to free up cash when all your money is hidden in holding companies, dodgy schemes and tax havens.
1. Re:Cant pay by rmdingler · 2017-01-31 02:35 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Hard to free up cash when all your money is hidden in holding companies, dodgy schemes and tax havens.
  While missing a payment deadline, I once told the electrical people my money was all tied up in fast times and poor decisions.
  Despite the chuckle it elicited, their level of compassion could be measured by the $12 late fee on a $144 light bill.
  
  --
  Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
  Ernest Hemingway
2. Re:Cant pay by Plumpaquatsch · 2017-01-31 04:20 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  So it's already in Ireland? That should make it easier.
  Well, when the country you are supposed to pay it to refuses to accept it, that is a pretty big problem. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-...
  BTW, why is a failure to meet a Jan. 3rd deadline suddenly in the news? Even the EU bureaucracy isn't that slow.
  Interesting tidbit: if they dumped the money in front of the Irish treasury as 500 Euro bills, that would be over 29 metric tons of paper, with a volume of about 34 cubic meters. It seems that would be slightly more than fits into a 20' shipping container - but you would need at least two anyway, because of the weight limit on trucks. So yeah, they could do that - if they can find somebody to sign the receipt. (http://www.fondations.net/weight-from-500-euro-note-informative/)
  
  --
  Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
I wish... by Quakeulf · 2017-01-31 02:06 · Score: 3, Interesting

I could just say "it's tricky" when the state comes to tax my business to hell and beyond. I pay 51% tax in total on my business entity here in Norway. If I try to fight this unjust practice against SMEs here in Norway they'll just ignore me.
1. Re:I wish... by JaredOfEuropa · 2017-01-31 02:23 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  And that's why such tax evasion is a bad thing: it's unfair competition. I hate taxes as much as the next guy and I would like to "avoid" them where I can. But in practise tax evasion and the secret tax rulings that are so popular in my country (which puts the Dutch in the Double Dutch Sandwich) are accessible only to large entities. As a small business owner paying 25-50% tax, how are you supposed to compete against companies that end up paying 0.005%?
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
2. Re:I wish... by Tomahawk · 2017-01-31 02:51 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  In the US at least, only profits are taxed.
  Same in the EU, and everywhere else that I know of. The 13bn owed here is taxes on profits made by Apple across Europe over a period of a few years. So you can imagine just how much profit they actually made!
  Normal corporation tax rate in Ireland is 12.5%, which tells us that Apple made profits in excess of €100bn over those years in Europe.
3. Re:I wish... by drinkypoo · 2017-01-31 03:10 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I like taxes because I like living in civilisation. I am happy to contribute my bit.
  I will not lie and pretend I like paying taxes. I like getting what they give me, and if I can get that for less money, I will. It's the same principle upon which big business works, and if it's good for them, then it's surely good for me.
  Contributing my bit is not really the problem. Being asked to contribute someone else's bit because they are evading taxes, or because they are purchasing legislation which permits them to avoid them instead while I still am expected to pay them, that is the problem.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
4. Re:I wish... by kimvette · 2017-01-31 03:11 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  > As a small business owner paying 25-50% tax, how are you supposed to compete against companies that end up paying 0.005%?
  You're not, and that is by design.
  
  --
  The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Some options by The-Ixian · 2017-01-31 02:09 · Score: 5, Funny

I know that people are working overtime at Apple to come up with this solution but here are some ideas for you:
- Giant novelty check
- Mountain of pennies
- Unsold Apple watches
- Briefcase full of "iBucks"
- "Hey what's that?!" *run away*

--
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Escrow by Tomahawk · 2017-01-31 02:24 · Score: 4, Informative

They missed a deadline to have the money in an escrow account. With the ongoing legal challenges, the money would stay in the escrow account until such time as it is decided whether they have to pay the taxes, or they can take the money back. This wasn't a deadline to pay the tax itself.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0...
1. Re:Escrow by Opportunist · 2017-01-31 02:36 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  And still, if this wasn't Apple but Paddy O'Random not paying his tax, he'd find his home raided and emptied out tonight.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:Does Ireland wan't the money? by Opportunist · 2017-01-31 02:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

The very LAST thing Ireland really wants is to enforce this law. For good reason. Right now they get a bit of the cake, but they get a bit of the cake from everyone because every company, from Apple to Amazon to MS to Google, is hiding in their tax shelter.
If they now actually fold (and yes, that would be Ireland folding to EU pressure), what reason is there for them to stay in Ireland? The weather?

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Re:Yeah, Apple is so happy that Ireland didn't IRE by serviscope_minor · 2017-01-31 02:56 · Score: 3, Insightful

I accidentally modded down. Posting to erase. Absolutely insane. Whether you agree with a country's tax schemes, a sovereign nation has the right to decide these issues for themselves.
This idiotic bullshit "sovereignty" meme needs to die.
Being able to do whatever the fuck you like while everyone deals with you as if you're nice is not the definition of sovereignty.
Ireland agreed to not give state aid as a condition of being in the single market and the EU. They are sovereign because they can give state aid whenever and however they like, but they won't get to keep being in the EU.
You know what? Being sovereign is not being given cool shit while you act like a dick. It means people won't start shooting at you for things like that. Ireland is sovereign because no one will shoot at them if they say "fuck you" to the EU. Florida, Arkansas, Alabama etc are not sovereign: last time they tried to leave, some other people started shooting at them until they stopped. Ireland is free to invoke Article 50 (or just leave the club by fiat) any time they want and not a single shot will be fired.

--
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Re:Does Ireland wan't the money? by Carewolf · 2017-01-31 03:45 · Score: 4, Interesting

The very LAST thing Ireland really wants is to enforce this law. For good reason. Right now they get a bit of the cake, but they get a bit of the cake from everyone because every company, from Apple to Amazon to MS to Google, is hiding in their tax shelter.
If they now actually fold (and yes, that would be Ireland folding to EU pressure), what reason is there for them to stay in Ireland? The weather?
They still have the lowest corporate tax in the EU at 12.5% the companies would just have to pay that instead of 0.02%.
Plus Ireland already ARE enforcing the tax again. The scheme was found illegal by Ireland's own supreme court, Ireland just said: We didn't know it was illegal so were are not going to be charging back taxes on the error. Where as EU have found letters between Apple and Ireland discussion wether or not they would accept the legally wrong scheme, and since Ireland did, have said that is illegal state aid, and thus they must collect back taxes and not just new taxes.
The only reason Ireland is not happy to charge the back taxes is either: a) pride or b) corruption.. or maybe c) both.