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Tesla Employee Calls For Unionization, Musk Says That's 'Morally Outrageous' (arstechnica.com)
"In a Medium post published today, Tesla employee Jose Moran detailed working conditions at the company's Freemont factory and called for the factory workers to unionize with United Auto Workers (UAW)," reports Ars Technica. In response, Elon Musk told Gizmodo via Twitter Direct Messages: "Our understanding is that this guy was paid by the UAW to join Tesla and agitate for a union. Frankly, I find this attack to be morally outrageous. Tesla is the last car company left in California, because costs are so high." Musk went on to blame the UAW for killing the New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc (NUMMI), which sold the Fremont factory to Musk in 2010. Ars Technica reports: Tesla currently employs more than 5,000 non-union workers at its Fremont, CA-based factory. Moran wrote that the workers are often faced with "excessive mandatory overtime" and earn between $17 and $21 hourly, compared with the national average of $25.58 hourly for most autoworkers in the U.S. The Tesla employee noted that the astronomical cost of living in the Bay Area makes $21 an hour difficult to live on. Moran also claimed that the factory's "machinery is often not ergonomically compatible with our bodies," and requires "too much twisting and turning and extra physical movement to do jobs that could be simplified if workers' input were welcomed." He added that at one point, six out of eight people on his team were out on medical leave "due to various work-related injuries."
Easier said than done. Single, yup, not an issue. Married, that's hard if the wife is in a career. You now have two jobs to find in a new area. Kids, yeah, good luck with matching up schools to new areas and finding two jobs. So how about you wind in your next you smug git and think there's more to life than a dweeb fly-by comment maker on a dead site.
Unions certainly had their time and place in history, but these days it seems to be less about standing up for the little guy and more about how much money can we bring in via Union Dues. ( My opinion of course, I work within a Union Company )
That said, $21 an hour is a rather laughable wage in a State with a high cost of living like California. Hell, a wage of $80k is laughable in a State where housing starts at $500k and goes right off the scale.
So there is this thought:
If Musk doesn't want his employees getting seduced by the Union, he should probably consider bumping the pay of his workers to near what the national average is and address any concerns they may have ( like excessive mandatory overtime per the article ). As long as he keeps his workforce happy, they'll have no reason to Unionize and Musk will have nothing to worry about.
Of course, there is the flip side.
Musk can say " screw this " and move the entire operation out of California and into another State where the cost of doing business is much lower.
Moran claims he's worked there for four years.
Tesla/Musk claim Moran was paid to join Tesla to agitate for unionizing.
So he joined four years ago, and was silent for four years.
And only after four years of silence, four years of mandatory overtime, etc., etc., he starts to speak out.
At which point he's suddenly a shill for the UAW?. Dunno, whether he is or isn't a shill, that doesn't make it magically wrong, per se, to argue for a union.
(And perhaps it need not be the UAW, but if not them, then who?)
There should be no need and no place for a dispute over "not ergonomically compatible" and "excessive mandatory overtime". Legislated workplace standards, (and people of integrity to investigate complaints and enforce relevant legislation), should be in place to prevent this kind of dispute from being fought in the press. As for unions, they are an evil made necessary only by the fact that so much of government is in the pockets of corporations. Just my two cents worth.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Musk did not say or imply that unionization was morally outrageous. But that was obvious so the false title was intentional.
Well, let's look at his claim. Is it morally outrageous to take a job specifically for the purpose of encouraging unionization? I don't think that it is. I mean, it's a lot less outrageous to me than someone who takes a job specifically for the purpose of fucking off and phoning it in and doing a shit job. My perception is that most union members believe in their union, and thus, in the act of encouraging unionization. I don't see anything to be morally outraged about there. If I were a business owner, I would be peeved at them, but I'd be equally upset with my HR department.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Yes, this! Younger generation forgets that this country was built on strong unions.
Government and business were _always_ pro child labour in the U.S. (don't believe me,
read the Supreme Court's ruling on child labour - right to enter into a contract my arse!)
Unions, (like U.S. juries are supposed to do) help keep business and government honest
and are a needed and necessary part of a free democratic society. The original purpose
of a union was the strike fund (which is sadly "illegal" now, though it exists in other forms)
which allow workers to strengthen their bargaining position when management was tough.
As far as IT, if we all weren't a bunch of snobs and embraced unions back in the 90's, we
would not have the horrible H1B situation that we have to struggle to regain control again.
I like to think Trump can help fix the H1B problem, but it might be too late to become a
world technology leader again because of the problems created by the H1B program
(lack of native born U.S. citizens entering the field, etc.)
CAP === 'births'
It's morally outrageous to pay somebody to take a job to try to force unionization in to your specific union.
That would make a lot more sense if unions didn't have specific purposes. This is the obvious union they "should" be joining (if they are to join a union.)
But UAW has a sleazy enough background that before reading the summary, I did think that maybe UAW paid the guy off.
Paying your employees so poorly, and taking such poor care of them, is also sleazy. So we see here sleaze being used to fight sleaze. I am having a hard time getting upset.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Normally I'm not a fan of Elon Musk's approach to things, but i have to agree with him on this. Of course the UAW would be after him once he gets enough momentum for Tesla, it's what the UAW does. And frankly it's the UAW's policies that have crushed the old car manufacturers in the US; their ability to redesign production processes is severely hampered by union rules.
The reason I support Musk though on this is because if the things that this guy claims is true of Tesla's plant, then frankly they don't need to unionize to improve conditions because the plant would be illegal under California labor law. I've worked in manufacturing facilities in California nearly my entire life. So either Tesla is operating illegally, or this guy is making a lot of false claims to cause agitation. I doubt the California Labor Commission (CLC) would have not inspected a 5,000 employee plant by now, so the more likely scenario is this guy is making stuff up.
From his post:
"Most of my 5,000-plus coworkers work well over 40 hours a week, including excessive mandatory overtime. "
This is extremely illegal under California state law; then penalties for companies for this are really harsh. Musk can't even get away with it by making his employees salaried exempt, the CLC takes a very hard stance on classifying employees of a particular job differently than another company. And they do inspect.
"The hard, manual labor we put in to make Tesla successful is done at great risk to our bodies."
Tesla's plant is heavily automated so I find this unlikely. I also find it unlikely that OSHA has not inspected a 5,000 employee plant for safety and health hazardous issues given how OSHA operates, so this is a questionable statement.
"There is too much twisting and turning and extra physical movement to do jobs that could be simplified if workers’ input were welcomed. Add a shortage of manpower and a constant push to work faster to meet production goals, and injuries are bound to happen."
I could see ergonomics to be a problem, and Tesla is under a crunch to deliver vehicles and meet performance measurements. And given how fast Tesla has grown, I could see their production lines being made in a haphazard and inefficient and not ergonomic way. But again, I doubt it. Tesla took a lot of influence from Toyota (including investment) on this plant, and frankly Toyota's lines are far and above the best in the business when it comes to efficiency and worker safety. So it's possible, but again unlikely.
"Most Tesla production workers earn between $17 and $21 hourly. The average auto worker in the nation earns $25.58 an hour, and lives in a much less expensive region. The living wage in Alameda county, where we work, is more than $28 an hour for an adult and one child (I have two)."
I'm sorry buddy, but labor is a market. If you don't like your rate go find another job that pays better, it's that simple. You signed up for the job at this rate, you can always leave and find another. It' unethical to go into a job with a pay rate you knew was low when you signed up, and then threaten unionization to increase the pay rate; that's you threatening trying to break an employment contract you signed.
"A few months ago, six out of eight people in my work team were out on medical leave at the same time due to various work-related injuries."
This is extremely unlikely. Work related injuries must be reported to OSHA on an ongoing basis. If a whole team is down due to people out due to medical injuries, even if the management is a cold-hearted I would think they'd be concerned about the efficiency of this team and try to make fixes, because this would shut down an entire functional group in the plant. Not only that, if 6 out of 8 on a team were out and those were reported to OSHA, then OSHA would be sending inspectors in almost next day. So for this to be true, Tesla would have to be breaking Federal employment law by not reporting injuries to OSHA, so he's either claiming that Tes
Unions do some very underhanded stuff now a days, if the guy was paid by the union to instigate unitization then I agree with Mr Musk. I always say that unions were necessary up until the 80's, since then I have not seen them do anything other than destroy companies, and do almost nothing for their employees, all the while the union management walks away stuffing their pockets with cash.
But there is a question of balance. $21/hour in the Bay Area isn't much, but with a little overtime it isn't terrible for a low to no skill job. It also isn't that different than $25/hour after union dues. Ergonomics and on the job injury are dealt with by workers comp, and the company eventually has an incentive to address material issues, especially in California.
While I like living in California and many of the protections it offers workers, it is already a lot like being in a union. Why add the extra layer of crooks to the mix?
They may very well be dishonest, self-serving and manipulative, but are the complaints valid? Do the complaints about pay and working conditions stand on their own? If they do then Tesla needs to address those.
Has Tesla ever produced an analysis of their pay and benefits versus those of a unionized shop? Showing that there are advantages to working without unions sounds like a better response than assigning morality to what are essentially monetary transactions.
How come Slashdot never gets Slashdotted?
The claim that a guy who has worked there for 4 years (and only now is speaking up) is a UAW plant is the "morally outrageous" part.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Exactly he's complaint is not against Unions per se but against someone who purposely got hired by Tesla for the expressed purpose of instigating Unionization.
As it stands, it still begs the question: why? If you are of the conviction that all workers should be encouraged to be in a union, is it wrong to try to convince others that they should join? IOW, does freedom of speech only hold for the right kind of opinions? Taking a job with Tesla so you can talk to your colleagues about joining a union is no different than going to any other place to argue for your particular opinions; or going to another country as a missionary. Is that morally wrong?
Thats the unions problem - if they aren't getting people to voluntarily sign up, then theres something wrong with their offering, surely...?
Unions seem to have survived here in the UK and Europe, where practices such as enforced union membership is illegal and unions only act for and on behalf of voluntary members, so that makes your argument somewhat moot really doesn't it?
, since then I have not seen them do anything other than destroy companies, and do almost nothing for their employees
Agree somewhat. But the fact that there is a union is likely keeping conditions higher than if unions all suddenly disappeared and the employers had free reign to set working conditions again.
If only people could be happy with the union doing "nothing" and the union setting dues aside instead of spending them on lobbying and way too much staff.
The disconnect between wages and productivity, between woker wages and ceo pay, and overall inequality, all mirror and councide with the trend of decreasing union membership.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Actually, unions are still very needed in many industry. The problem is NOT unionization. The real issue is that most are the established ones that are corrupt and far more interested in flowing money to the top, just like businesses, than to the workers.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Uh, why compare to average union shop and instead compare to the average non-union shops such as Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, etc.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.