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H-1Bs Reduced Computer Programmer Employment By Up To 11%, Study Finds (marketwatch.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from MarketWatch: There would have been up to 11% more computer science jobs at wages up to 5% higher were it not for the immigration program that brings in foreign high-skilled employees, a new study finds. The paper -- by John Bound and Nicolas Morales of the University of Michigan and Gaurav Khanna of the University of California, San Diego -- was conducted by studying the economy between 1994 and 2001, during the internet boom. It was also a period where the recruitment of so-called H-1B labor was at or close to the cap and largely before the onset of the vibrant IT sector in India. In 2001, the number of U.S. computer scientists was between 6.1%-10.8% lower and wages were between 2.6% and 5.1% lower. Of course, there also were beneficiaries -- namely consumers and employers. Immigration lowered prices by between 1.9% and 2.4%, and profits increased as did the total number of IT firms.
So they can immigrate and compete for jobs along with everyone else. That's much different than H-1B contracting.
The only way to equalize the marketplace is not to have artificial salary standards. It's to make them permanent alien residents. They don't compete just on salaries. They compete on work place conditions, too. They are willing tolerate more hostile work environments and more abusive management in general. The only way to make them not compete is to put them on the same legal footing as the US citizens and others who are not afraid that losing a job would mean a possible deportation. If there is a shortage of workers, then nothing is lost by giving them green cards on the 1st day. This is not a security threat because they are physically present in the country regardless of the visa. By importing workers on work visa the employers do much more than suppress wages. They import people who are willing to tolerate abuse. The employers suppress work place standards by doing this.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
One of those makes it stronger, the other make it weaker.
The thing I really don't like about the H-1B program is the abuse. There's nothing wrong with keeping a few visa slots open for truly exceptional people. I've seen the program used for this purpose and it mostly works. The problem is the companies that use it to directly replace older workers in routine, run of the mill IT and dev jobs. Companies are totally aware of what they're doing when they hire Tata, Infosys or Cognizant -- it's a "Pontias Pilate" move that lets them wash their hands of the IT department. That's what has been happening with the big stories making the news (Disney, Southern California Edison, etc.) The outsourcer comes in, has to make a profit on the deal, and so they offshore everything they can and slowly replace domestic workers with H-1Bs for things they can't. These are not the best and brightest -- its mostly DBA and dev work that requires just enough on site interaction to make offshoring ineffective. I've worked in outsourced IT environments -- everything takes twice as long and nothing new will ever be attempted in a company that has someone else running their iT, partially because change orders cost so much.
Allowing the abuses is essentially a brake on IT workers' careers and an artificial salary cap. I've been lucky enough to become the senior guy in our engineering group over years of experience, and feel very strongly that we oldies (I'm 41 :-) ) have to develop the next generation. I don't want the pipeline of newbies to dry up because they're worried there's no future in technology. Young students are going to make rational choices and we're going to be stuck the same way the mainframers are now...no one will take the leap to learn enough to replace the retirees.
Also, I totally don't buy the argument that there's no domestic talent. No one is a drop-in replacement for the last guy, and especially today it's impossible to be an expert at everything. That narrative that paints offshore consulting firms as world-class experts on technology has to change. I would love to hear accounts of domestic hires that had zero talent -- I just haven't experienced it!
There are several big problems with the article:
1. It covered the period from 1994 to 2001, when anyone remotely qualified could get a tech job, and companies were desperate to hire. In 1998-2000, my company was offering college freshmen $10k bonuses to quit school and come work for us. I am extremely skeptical that 11% of techs were unemployed during this period.
2. It assumes that nearly every job taken by an H1B is one less job for an American. That is not true, since some of these jobs would have otherwise been moved overseas, or the company may have never filled the job opening at all. Job markets are not zero-sum.
There's a difference between immigrants and indentured servants who have to return to their country at then end of their contract.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
It's not a free market it is captured labor. Both for the company using the H1Bs, who cannot quit, and the Indian companies where emplyees have to give 90 days notice.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Your post has to be trolling? NO ONE has a right to come to this country. You may apply for immigrant status, but you have no right to enter this country. Also, the H1B crap is causing the lowering of wages. It needs to be stopped. How many times just in the past couple years have we heard, an employer outsources their I.T. or support jobs to H1B visa holders, and FORCE the current employees to train their replacements.
This study is racist and xenophobic and slashdot is also for posting it. America is a country of immigrants and Indians have just as much right to a programming job as anyone who was born here.
Racism is usually usually defined as prejudice or antagonism based on race, and xenophobia has something to do with fear.
The problem with your argument is that there is no actual racism or xenophobia involved. No one is "afraid" of people from India, no one "fears" the Indian programmer, and from the looks of things in this country no one tries to keep "the Indian savage" down or prevents them from doing anything a regular citizen could do.
They drink at the same water fountains as anyone else, and no one cares.
This is the typical argument of the left. It's OK to hit a racist, so you start by labelling everything you don't like as racist.
Then when you're caught breaking windows or giving someone a beat-down, you sayl "yeah, but he's a racist!".
In fact, you don't even need to apply the label yourself. So long as someone else calls it racism, you're free to riot and beat people all you want.
That's really the reason the left uses all these silly labels, it's to justify virtuous acts of violence.
It's OK to hit a racist.
Yes, but how many of those 96.5% employed CS grads are in jobs that use their skills? How many of them are stacking shelves at the local store because they can't get work in their field?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Your localized analysis of labor markets is like trying to judge global climate by the weather in your backyard.
Immigration policy is a national policy and it must be evaluated on a national level.
"If the cost goes down, why would the demand remain fixed?"
Do you have evidence that demand for these people is increasing? The author of the article doesn't seem to think so. Slashdot has been filled with stories over the last couple of years of firms laying off tech workers and forcing those workers to train their replacements.
If demand for this talent was increasing, salaries would be rising across the industry and very few firms would be laying off workers. Why would you layoff anyone if you can't meet your demand for employees?
H1B is a cost saving measure at the expense of the American worker. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being willfully ignorant of the situation.