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B Vitamins Reduce Schizophrenia Symptoms, Study Finds (newsmax.com)
A new study published in the journal Psychological Medicine finds that high doses of B vitamins reduce the symptoms of schizophrenia. Researchers found that using B vitamins, including B6, inositol, and B12 as an adjunctive with antipsychotics significantly improved symptoms of the debilitating condition. Newsmax reports: For the new study, researchers identified 18 clinical trials with a combined total of 832 patients receiving antipsychotic treatment for schizophrenia. They found that B-vitamin interventions which used higher dosages or combined several vitamins were consistently effective for reducing psychiatric symptoms, whereas those which used lower doses were ineffective. The evidence also suggested that B-vitamin supplements were most beneficial when they were added to medicine regimens early after diagnosis.
That didn't seem to have worked for Mr Kurzweil, though.
Cool story bro.
Megavitamins and orthomolecular medicine have a scientific basis that is more targetable than this indicates. Merely they've been under "fake news" attacks since at least the 1960s, when the psychiatric establishment of that time attacked with rigged results. Then the severely iatrogenic oncologists of the 70s and 80s attacked.
Both of these self anointed establishments' actions and statements then, when viewed by today's information, to me look like quacks with criminal intent
No it isn't. Schizophrenia is a hardware problem (though it can be triggered emotionally and/or with misc. drugs). While psychology is a hard problem to crack in general there are very strong evidence of the above and very little reliable evidence for the OPs idea.
The person should be in a secure hospital treated by professionally qualified doctors. Unfortunately many homeless people suffer from mental illness while others opportune from it as crazy as that is...it is a different pathology.
No it is not. The voices told me so.
Jokes aside - you are simply wrong.
yeah right adjunctive! First find me someone who has used antipsychotics that doesn't relapse into a far worse state within 12 months.
Looks like someone doesn't know the difference between schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder. Also, the normal reaction to traumatic events is to black them out.
Why are ACs always make such total asses of themselves? ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
but a balanced diet reduce many symptoms.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
They hide the microphones in the pills! Don't do it!
From the article:
"Researchers found that adding B vitamins, including B6, inositol, and B12 significantly improved symptoms of the debilitating condition."
"They found that B-vitamin interventions which used higher dosages or combined several vitamins were consistently effective for reducing psychiatric symptoms, whereas those which used lower doses were ineffective."
So which B Vitamins exactly and in what dosages?
Are there side effects at those dosages?
Is always the answer regardless the question
Schizophrenia is a hardware problem (though it can be triggered emotionally and/or with misc. drugs).
In humans, the line between hardware and software is indelible. Or, you might just say that it's squishy and permeable.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Pooled effects showed that vitamin B supplementation (including B6, B8 and B12) reduced psychiatric symptoms significantly more than control conditions [g = 0.508, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.01–1.01, p = 0.047, I2 = 72.3%]. Similar effects were observed among vitamin B RCTs which used intention-to-treat analyses (g = 0.734, 95% CI 0.00–1.49, p = 0.051).
The confidence interval indicates the level of uncertainty around the measure of effect (precision of the effect estimate). Confidence intervals are used because a study recruits only a small sample of the overall population so by having an upper and lower confidence limit we can infer that the true population effect lies between these two points. Most studies report the 95% confidence interval (95%CI). If the confidence interval crosses 1 that implies there is no difference between arms of the study. As far as I can remember.
Argh. The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
I would reverse that statement to read
"many schizophrenics suffer from homelessness"
Most have drug problems trying to combat the symptoms, nit the other way around.
You see the lies propagated in anti marijuana stories that cite " look, he's a schizophrenic because he smokes weed, when the opposite is closer to the truth, they are self medicating.
Well what have we here. Looks like I must update my mental definition of 'schizophrenia' based on what this AC said. Forget all the stuff about paranoid delusions, scary auditory and visual hallucinations, etc - it's "a description for a set of behaviours that are viewed as abnormal ALL caused by traumatic events during childhood".
Thanks AC. Can I quote you?
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
I've always been in two minds whether to take vitamins or not...
"indelible"? Huh?
A B-Complex supplement is a good idea anyway, as B vitamins get peed out and don't stay in the body for too long.
So it is really hard to end up with not enough of them over a very short period of time and minor changes in diet can mean missing out.
B-12 is also depleted by certain medications like Metformin, one of the main Type 2 Diabetes treatments. If you take Metformin, you are automatically low on B-12 and you will need to take more every day. You cannot eat enough food to reach the level you need.
Costco's Kirkland B-Complex is a very good one and packs more punch for less cost than other more common grocery store brands. But even with that, you would still need a B-12 standalone. Costco sells that too.
Sig for hire.
Weirdly, another study showed high niacin in energy drinks was hurting health of people consuming more than 2 in a 2-day period.
Can lead to hepatitis over longer periods.
And even killing in excessive levels.
B vitamins are indeed complex.
And is smoking just a way of getting nicotinic acid as a byproduct (aka Niacin aka Vitamin B3)?
Why are ACs always make such total asses of themselves? ;)
Maybe schizophrenia?
Silence is a state of mime.
"indelible"? Huh?
Yeah, you're right. That's not the word I wanted. It's vaguely in the right ballpark, and I didn't sleep well. I wanted something about how they were in inseparable, and then a line got involved somehow...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You're the one with multiple personalities. That fake name of yours you use here is on your birth certificate? Who's the nutcase here?? You are with your childish fantasyland name! Grow up, act your age, and be yourself instead, alright?
One is the basic issue that, without proper understanding of how one 'instance' of schizophrenia differs from another, and the degree to which 'what works' differs from both person to person, and depending upon the particular details of the 'instance' of schizophrenia (I use the class/instance analogue, since people on /. are used to it: schizophrenia is kind of an abstract base class, paranoid schizophrenia is an abstract subclass of it, and a particular person's schizophrenia is an instance of some subclass of schizophrenia, possibly inheriting from various 'well known' forms.)
Doing this is hard, and will generally show mental health research in a far poorer light, and of course is not required of current researchers, which is why it is hardly ever thought of, let alone mentioned. But not doing this is akin to the schoolboy error of omitting experimental error, and ignoring the question of how well the subject of a study fits the assumed theoretical model.
So far, the degree to which two 'instances' of schizophrenia can be thought of as the 'same thing' has yet to be properly shown (that is, 'same' to a sufficient degree that it makes sense to talk of 'treatments for schizophrenia', rather than 'treatment for a particular schizophrenia'). And almost all research into treatment of schizophrenia effectively already assumes this, together with strong implicit assumptions as to the variability of people and conditions which attract the label 'schizophrenia'. The effect, from the point of view of trials such as mentioned in TFA, is that results are averaged across all instances (and from the point of view of what 'the literature' appears to show, biased according to what is and is not published -- another source of error that must be taken into account when inferring efficacy from surveys of the literature). The 'Emperor's New Clothes' problem in mainstream psychiatry is that nobody wants to see what their 'emperor' is actually wearing (i.e. bugger all).
Until we get it into our heads that labels like 'schizophrenia' do _not_ tell us what a particular problem is, but merely tell us that certain symptoms have been observed by qualified psychiatric professionals, (and essentially nothing more), and that details as to the variability of one instance of a psychiatric illness to another, and the variability from one person to another, are properly taken into account, trusting current research is a game of Russian Roulette, and, thanks to the antics of Big Pharma, the 'research literature' has been turned into an 'academic medical shopping channel'.
End rant.
Schizophrenia is a hardware problem (though it can be triggered emotionally and/or with misc. drugs).
In humans, the line between hardware and software is indelible. Or, you might just say that it's squishy and permeable.
It would be better to think of the brain in terms of a FPGA because there is no higher ordered operating system software that is running on the hardware.
Where is the research showing that _every_ case of schizophrenia is definitely a 'hardware problem'? Unlike in maths and physics, it seems nobody in mental health research can point to convincing evidence for critical parts of the reasoning process. First, are two cases of schizophrenia the same? Second, is it safe to neglect differences between people with schizophrenia such that trials of 'treatments for schizophrenia' makes sense? (This second one is equivalent to the 'is your equivalence relation well-defined' question mathematicians are familiar with: check the maths behind the stats used in mental health research, and pick through the logic carefully, and you'll see implicit assumptions of this staring back at you.)
And third, where is the convincing research that schizophrenia is indeed a 'hardware problem'? (Convincing to someone with a hard science/maths background, not a medicine grad.)
its a catchall bullshit thing when doctors dont know. its based solely on pateints self-reported systems which are very easily misinterpreted by psychiatrists
It's in our name, when you pronounce AC with a soft C. Duh!
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/schizophrenia-booklet/index.shtml
This post brought to you by the "Department of Pot Kettle Black" :-)
Hmmmm. Or was the parent post you were replying to something other than what I thought it was? The thread appears to point to a post that is not relevant to what you wrote. Sorry if I misconstrued your meaning.
I recall that many, many years ago vitamin B12 was recommended as a rescue for a bad LSD trip. I don't know of any actual studies that tested its effectiveness though.
Here's what the abstract says:
"There were no overall effects from antioxidant vitamins, inositol or dietary minerals on psychiatric symptoms."
====> Never trust a study that hides behind a paywall. ====
It would be better to think of the brain in terms of a FPGA because there is no higher ordered operating system software that is running on the hardware.
Yes, I like that very much. Then again, what's on an FPGA (or in any other circuit) can be written down in terms of a software program...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I just read the study in question.
It was a meta-analysis of multiple previous studies. Almost all of the studies used the positive and negative PANSS scales, which ranks severity of symptoms on a a 49 point scale. The strong majority of the included studies showed no difference between vitamin supplementation and placebo. A couple of the outliers shows about a 1 point improvement on the 49 point scale with the vitamins.
Looking at the whole of the paper, it seems that most studies do no support the use of vitamins in the treatment of schizophrenia. There have been a couple of studies which should a small, statistically significant improvement with B vitamins, although it's questionable whether this improvement is clinically significant. Given the many studies which showed no difference from placebo, it's also possible that the positive studies simply represent publication bias.
While it's unlikely to hurt anyone to take some vitamins, nothing in any of the studies or meta-analysis suggests that vitamins can effectively treat schizophrenia.
Yes, you can diagnose and even predict with brain imaging. Search Medline.
If there is another condition that's not visible on imaging then it's a separate disease, even if both are called the same thing clinically.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
i think they do it so you can delusionally boost your ego on low hanging fruit
I thought the whole repressed memory thing was a complete myth. Aren't you way more likely to remember a traumatic memory than a mundane one?
A vegetarian finally admitted that they still need to take vitamin supplements.
Yeah as our brain systems are linked together. More associations (more emotions) = higher recall and higher chance of continued recall (less forgetting). It's how memory experts do what they do
> Yes, I like that very much. Then again, what's on an FPGA (or in any other circuit) can be written down in terms of a software program.
This is demonstrably untrue for brains. Part of the key to a digital circuit, and program, is that it is deterministic. The same program run twice with the same nputs will produce the same output, and most of them can be modeled as Turing machines, so that they can be run on other hardware with sufficient resources.
I'm afraid that nerves are _analog_, with triggered changes of state that cannot be reliably predicted. And there are indeterminacy issues, where the effect of applying a probe or measuring tool to record one neural pattern actually modifies the neural pattern. Writing that as a software program is quite difficult.
The Dietician Adelle Davis Said This in the 1970's In her books, describing how B vitamins shortage can induce schizophrenia and how to treat it.
Nope. It's rare but it's how your brain copes with extreme trauma. You are correct that you are likely to remember traumatic events but that just means that's your brain hasn't reacted to the trauma, it's treating them as normal events. The more intense the experience, the more neural connections, so the more you remember it.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Tell that to people born schizoprenic : https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
But judging by the quality of your tap water, yeah most babies are born with PTSD right now. At least now we know this is entirely hereditary, luck of the drawer of sorts, but whats your excuse to don't even fucking know what schizophrenia is? feelings? trauma? These are people hallucinating shit 24/7, this is some brain malfunction where it literally flips the bird to your senses and proceeds to mix shit at random in the buffer before your perception.
Sound like someone's salty with schizos, takes a special kind of loser to hold any grief against people not completely aware of their self.
No, but that fake name is proper security procedure. The people using their real names on the internet are the odd ones.
https://thecybersafetylady.com...
Or are you intending to start posting under your own name instead of AC?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
OMG, Nimh exists! Keep the rats away from them or there might be trouble.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?