Slashdot Mirror
B Vitamins Reduce Schizophrenia Symptoms, Study Finds (newsmax.com)
A new study published in the journal Psychological Medicine finds that high doses of B vitamins reduce the symptoms of schizophrenia. Researchers found that using B vitamins, including B6, inositol, and B12 as an adjunctive with antipsychotics significantly improved symptoms of the debilitating condition. Newsmax reports: For the new study, researchers identified 18 clinical trials with a combined total of 832 patients receiving antipsychotic treatment for schizophrenia. They found that B-vitamin interventions which used higher dosages or combined several vitamins were consistently effective for reducing psychiatric symptoms, whereas those which used lower doses were ineffective. The evidence also suggested that B-vitamin supplements were most beneficial when they were added to medicine regimens early after diagnosis.
Megavitamins and orthomolecular medicine have a scientific basis that is more targetable than this indicates. Merely they've been under "fake news" attacks since at least the 1960s, when the psychiatric establishment of that time attacked with rigged results. Then the severely iatrogenic oncologists of the 70s and 80s attacked.
Both of these self anointed establishments' actions and statements then, when viewed by today's information, to me look like quacks with criminal intent
No it isn't. Schizophrenia is a hardware problem (though it can be triggered emotionally and/or with misc. drugs). While psychology is a hard problem to crack in general there are very strong evidence of the above and very little reliable evidence for the OPs idea.
Funny, the only schizophrenic I've ever known was also vegan.
I'm a vegetarian, and have strong sympathy for the motives behind being vegan. But take your B-12, my vegan friends. Unless you eat large amounts of soil, feces, or bacterial concentrates, or you've had a rumen implanted in your body, you need it. Higher plants don't make it. Every "vegetarian" mammal has to get it from somewhere, and those not lucky enough to have rumens (or other organs filling equivalent "cultivate lots of bacteria" roles) either get it through eating soil, feces, insects (accidentally or on purpose), or other such sources. Even our "strict" vegetarian gorilla relatives eat grubs. Heck, even though I consume dairy, I still take a B-12 supplement, just to ensure that I get enough.
Also, B-12 shortage doesn't hit you immediately. The body stores about 5 years of B-12. So it'll catch up with you sooner or later.
I spent the evening flickering into your darkness.
Looks like someone doesn't know the difference between schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder. Also, the normal reaction to traumatic events is to black them out.
Why are ACs always make such total asses of themselves? ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
but a balanced diet reduce many symptoms.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Schizophrenia is a hardware problem (though it can be triggered emotionally and/or with misc. drugs).
In humans, the line between hardware and software is indelible. Or, you might just say that it's squishy and permeable.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
So which B Vitamins exactly and in what dosages? Are there side effects at those dosages?
The articles specify B6, B8 & B12. As for the qty the article only specifies large doses which is clinically fucking useless.
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
Pooled effects showed that vitamin B supplementation (including B6, B8 and B12) reduced psychiatric symptoms significantly more than control conditions [g = 0.508, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.01–1.01, p = 0.047, I2 = 72.3%]. Similar effects were observed among vitamin B RCTs which used intention-to-treat analyses (g = 0.734, 95% CI 0.00–1.49, p = 0.051).
The confidence interval indicates the level of uncertainty around the measure of effect (precision of the effect estimate). Confidence intervals are used because a study recruits only a small sample of the overall population so by having an upper and lower confidence limit we can infer that the true population effect lies between these two points. Most studies report the 95% confidence interval (95%CI). If the confidence interval crosses 1 that implies there is no difference between arms of the study. As far as I can remember.
Argh. The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
I would reverse that statement to read
"many schizophrenics suffer from homelessness"
Most have drug problems trying to combat the symptoms, nit the other way around.
You see the lies propagated in anti marijuana stories that cite " look, he's a schizophrenic because he smokes weed, when the opposite is closer to the truth, they are self medicating.
Well what have we here. Looks like I must update my mental definition of 'schizophrenia' based on what this AC said. Forget all the stuff about paranoid delusions, scary auditory and visual hallucinations, etc - it's "a description for a set of behaviours that are viewed as abnormal ALL caused by traumatic events during childhood".
Thanks AC. Can I quote you?
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
A B-Complex supplement is a good idea anyway, as B vitamins get peed out and don't stay in the body for too long.
So it is really hard to end up with not enough of them over a very short period of time and minor changes in diet can mean missing out.
B-12 is also depleted by certain medications like Metformin, one of the main Type 2 Diabetes treatments. If you take Metformin, you are automatically low on B-12 and you will need to take more every day. You cannot eat enough food to reach the level you need.
Costco's Kirkland B-Complex is a very good one and packs more punch for less cost than other more common grocery store brands. But even with that, you would still need a B-12 standalone. Costco sells that too.
Sig for hire.
How about Silken Tofu - that's typically fortified with B-12
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
And is smoking just a way of getting nicotinic acid as a byproduct (aka Niacin aka Vitamin B3)?
Why are ACs always make such total asses of themselves? ;)
Maybe schizophrenia?
Silence is a state of mime.
"indelible"? Huh?
Yeah, you're right. That's not the word I wanted. It's vaguely in the right ballpark, and I didn't sleep well. I wanted something about how they were in inseparable, and then a line got involved somehow...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Schizophrenia is a hardware problem (though it can be triggered emotionally and/or with misc. drugs).
In humans, the line between hardware and software is indelible. Or, you might just say that it's squishy and permeable.
It would be better to think of the brain in terms of a FPGA because there is no higher ordered operating system software that is running on the hardware.
It can be an issue as pretty much all sources of B-12 are meat and fish based, so a vegan is unlikely to get enough of it unless they make a special effort. Most foods aren't fortified with B-12 as B-12 deficiency is rare (unless you're a vegan). Also, as the body stores B-12 for about a year or so, it'll take a while for any deficiency to take effect.
Isn't a B-12 deficient diet an example of malnutrition?
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
My memory is hazy on this point, but IIRC it's the niacinamide form of B3 that is a risk for liver damage (in large doses, over time.) Niacin causes skin flushing (feels like a sunburn) in large doses, which tends to discourage overuse - but flushing varies a lot by individual. The RDA is below 20 mg / day, and most adults can easily take 10 times more.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
He can still drink (unfiltred) beer.
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/schizophrenia-booklet/index.shtml
This post brought to you by the "Department of Pot Kettle Black" :-)
Hmmmm. Or was the parent post you were replying to something other than what I thought it was? The thread appears to point to a post that is not relevant to what you wrote. Sorry if I misconstrued your meaning.
I recall that many, many years ago vitamin B12 was recommended as a rescue for a bad LSD trip. I don't know of any actual studies that tested its effectiveness though.
Zymurgy is slavery! #YeastLivesMatter
It would be better to think of the brain in terms of a FPGA because there is no higher ordered operating system software that is running on the hardware.
Yes, I like that very much. Then again, what's on an FPGA (or in any other circuit) can be written down in terms of a software program...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Yes, you can diagnose and even predict with brain imaging. Search Medline.
If there is another condition that's not visible on imaging then it's a separate disease, even if both are called the same thing clinically.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Those B-12 supplements usually have something like 36666% of the RDA per pill. So I just take them like once a week, and I figure I'm still getting plenty. I know I won't absorb all of the B12, but even if I absorb a couple percent, I'm good.
I thought the whole repressed memory thing was a complete myth. Aren't you way more likely to remember a traumatic memory than a mundane one?
The fact that a particular tofu manufacturer may fortify their product with B12 is only because they know that a lot of their market is vegan. Not all vegans eat tofu, or will pay attention to whether their brand does or does not fortify. Not all eat cereal either (the main "multivitamin-fortified" food that people consume), and a serving of a typical fortified cereal only provides about a quarter of your RDA anyway. Lots of other foods are fortified by specific nutrients, but rarely B12.
I spent the evening flickering into your darkness.
Vegans do. Vegetarians can get it from milk and eggs.
And hey, that can be turned around if you want to play that game. Your typical American eats var too few vegetables and so misses out on a lot of the plant-associated vitamins and minerals.
I spent the evening flickering into your darkness.
Yeah, it's crazy how much they put in them. The human body requires utterly miniscule amounts of B12. But the difference between "miniscule" and "none" has a big impact :)
I spent the evening flickering into your darkness.
> Yes, I like that very much. Then again, what's on an FPGA (or in any other circuit) can be written down in terms of a software program.
This is demonstrably untrue for brains. Part of the key to a digital circuit, and program, is that it is deterministic. The same program run twice with the same nputs will produce the same output, and most of them can be modeled as Turing machines, so that they can be run on other hardware with sufficient resources.
I'm afraid that nerves are _analog_, with triggered changes of state that cannot be reliably predicted. And there are indeterminacy issues, where the effect of applying a probe or measuring tool to record one neural pattern actually modifies the neural pattern. Writing that as a software program is quite difficult.
I didn't know soil include B12, does that include eating clay?
Nope. It's rare but it's how your brain copes with extreme trauma. You are correct that you are likely to remember traumatic events but that just means that's your brain hasn't reacted to the trauma, it's treating them as normal events. The more intense the experience, the more neural connections, so the more you remember it.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
I've not seen any reports on clay, but I wouldn't expect as much. It's soil bacteria that produce the B12, so you're looking for organic-rich soils.
Animals that eat clay often do so to help neutralize toxic alkaloids and to get various mineral supplements.
I spent the evening flickering into your darkness.
Tell that to people born schizoprenic : https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
But judging by the quality of your tap water, yeah most babies are born with PTSD right now. At least now we know this is entirely hereditary, luck of the drawer of sorts, but whats your excuse to don't even fucking know what schizophrenia is? feelings? trauma? These are people hallucinating shit 24/7, this is some brain malfunction where it literally flips the bird to your senses and proceeds to mix shit at random in the buffer before your perception.
Sound like someone's salty with schizos, takes a special kind of loser to hold any grief against people not completely aware of their self.
On the order of 15 micrograms per kilogram. Adult humans need 2.4 micrograms per day.
I spent the evening flickering into your darkness.
Last summer my doctor diagnosed me as being vitamin B (and D) deficient. I wasn't aware of the source of B-12 previously, but it makes me wonder how I could be B-12 deficient as I am an omnivore, and not on a restricted diet. But as you say below, I am American, and so don't eat very healthily to begin with.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
No, but that fake name is proper security procedure. The people using their real names on the internet are the odd ones.
https://thecybersafetylady.com...
Or are you intending to start posting under your own name instead of AC?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
OMG, Nimh exists! Keep the rats away from them or there might be trouble.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?