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Health Apps Could Be Doing More Harm Than Good, Warn Scientists (theguardian.com)
According to several scientists, fitness apps might be doing more harm than good because they don't work but force people to focus on ambitious goals that they will never reach. Some are so appalled by these apps that they have called it "snake oil salesmen of the 1860s." From a report on The Guardian: Greg Hager, professor of computer science at Johns Hopkins University, said that in the absence of trials or scientific grounding it was impossible to say whether apps were having the intended effect. "I am sure that these apps are causing problems," he told the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in Boston. [...] Hager claimed the 10,000 steps target dated back to a 1960s Japanese study that showed there were health benefits for men who burned at least 2,000 calories per week through exercise -- roughly equivalent to 10,000 steps each day. An early pedometer was known as the manpo-kei, which means "10,000-step meter" in Japanese. "But is that the right number for any of you in this room?" Hager asked. "Who knows. It's just a number that's now built into the apps." "We have an incredible number of apps in the wild basically being downloaded by people who may or may not understand what they are actually telling them or what the context for that is," he said. "Until we have evidence-based apps you could amplify issues. I mean, imagine everyone thinks they have to do 10,000 steps but you are not actually physically capable of doing that, you could actually cause harm or damage by doing so."
that's what health apps really are.
"Greg Hager, professor of computer science at Johns Hopkins University, said that in the absence of trials or scientific grounding it was impossible to say whether apps were having the intended effect. "I am sure that these apps are causing problems," he told the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in Boston."
Without scientific study we can't say for sure that these apps are working, but we can say for sure that they're causing problems... Makes sense. As to pushing someone to walk 10,000 steps per day, if a person's not physically capable of walking 10,000 steps it's on them and their doctor to determine that. No app is going to force me to do something I'm not capable of just because it says on the screen that I should.
Scientific study of the benefit or harm is good. No doubt.
But, from a common sense 30,000 foot perspective, if there is even the slightest effect among the majority of these apps of embarrassing you into getting off your ass a little more often, isn't that likely to be a net health positive?
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
>> is that the right number (of steps) for any of you?...It's just a number that's now built into the apps
It's worse that being built into a crappy little "health app" - it can actually cost you hundreds of dollars a month.
I was recently at a company where you got a discount on your health care plan if you walked 3,500 steps a day. With that in mind, I downloaded the related health-care app so I could reverse-engineer the web services and feed them the appropriate numbers each day to avoid paying more.
The best of these companies can be really good investments. The only problem is picking the right horses because so many are now doing health gadgets.
About the gadget themselves? Who cares if they work or not.. It's not what they are designed for!
I would rather people get their ass off the couch rather than continue to mold their cheeto-stained impression into it.
Even if the app is setting 10,000 steps as the goal, that doesn't mean you have to reach it literally today. That's why it's a goal.
Derp.
I was fat before fitbit. Now I'm stylishly fat.
Quit blaming your "slow metabolism" for your fat ass when you do shit like vulture in a parking lot for a close parking space just so you don't have to walk another 50 fucking yards.
Of course there's no science behind 95% (guess) of apps that really need science behind them. Science does not fit well into a devops release schedule.
I don't know whether to view this as the inevitable creep of snake oil into every market orifice, or tech giving snake oil a shot in the arm by virtue of people thinking "well, it took smart tech people to make this sniny modern 'app' so it must have the blessing of smart people."
Someone had to do it.
I'm pretty sure that the snake oil salesmen of the 1860s didn't have any apps. Should they be calling those that promote this "snake oil salesmen of the 2010s"?
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
The example of 10,000 steps being too much for some people seems like a silly criticism. It's like saying just because some people are missing a finger, (5-fingered) gloves are bad.
Not to say that research isn't needed, just that decrying something for not being a universal solution is pretty weak.
GOP system will link them to black lists
100 calories per jogging a mile. No way is 10000 steps anywhere close to 2000 calories.
things are pretty sad with the world if we have serious concerns that recommendations to take 10,000 steps in one day might hurt someone.
The whole drink 8 glasses of water a day thing is probably more of a risky recommendation for certain pre-existing conditions, but c'mon. Any health / exercise recommendation should be taken with caution if your health is on the far end of the bell curve.
This is a ridiculous criticism.
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With that in mind, I downloaded the related health-care app so I could reverse-engineer the web services and feed them the appropriate numbers each day to avoid paying more.
Are you boasting about committing fraud? And, if you happen to get caught then your insurance will be invalid, so if you need to use it, uoi'll personally be on the hook for all of the medical bills.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I changed my diet and started exercising in November. After losing about 12 pounds, I bought a popular fitness tracker in January to help me keep going. I don't use it to track steps at all. I track calories in/out, water intake, various exercises, and sleep. It's been quite helpful, and I've lost another 13 pounds since then.
Imagine everyone thinks they have to poop, but you have a colostomy bag and are not actually physically capable of doing that. You could actually cause harm or damage by doing so.
You just admitted to insurance fraud (a felony) while logged in. Are you worried someone will look you up and report you? You were just kidding right?
Knowing the inside-out of one such product I helped construct, I can tell you this:
a. The people I know have good intentions, and have made a "working" device that they believe is good for you.
b. Working means: people will buy it, people will believe it does what it claims.
c. All else is by far less important. Once sold to the masses, it's too late to change anything.
d. I really don't know if the masses care much about scientific evidence. They care much more about battery lifespan, how to start the damn thing, why it crashes on them in mid-exercise etc.
e. I'll never use a machine that tells me what to do. Use it only for keeping track of performance, never as an instructor.
f. Having said all of the above, rethink human instructors. Some know their work, but most just follow some routine they learned.
Why do you think their advices are above chance?
Physical education for the masses is broken, and can be fixed only if any trainee gains personal responsibility.
If you're wise, learn to select your instruction carefully, and be really cautious, or be ready to take injuries.
Beware of charismatic instructors, human and machine alike.
...exercise and eating right is not this complex. Also those apps are going to give you advice that are generic to the population, not necessarily what you as a unique individual actually need.
I for one vote we should suspend all exercise until we can determine a scientifically and clearly defined target for each person and get these hard coded in apps.
But on a more serious note, what a stupid argument to make. Just because someone doesn't understand the purpose of exercise doesn't mean actually getting some is automatically bad.
Yeah, health insurance needs to be optional again. Then you wouldn't have to pay for it at all, and I wouldn't have to help pay medical for people who hate themselves or are too lazy to care about themselves.
Any article that discusses an issue that 'could' or 'may' do something is not an article worth reading. You can say them about anything. For example, double cheeseburgers could lead to visits by extraterrestrial life forms!
Yeah, health insurance needs to be optional again. Then you wouldn't have to pay for it at all, and I wouldn't have to help pay medical for people who hate themselves or are too lazy to care about themselves.
Yes, let's make sure that people in the emergency room, maybe found on the road, victims of a hit and run driver for example, are not treated until they can be searched for proof of health insurance, followed by verification from the hospital that the policy is valid and the victim is in fact the authorized service recipient. No one will bleed out, die from a heart attack, or suffer damage from an untreated stroke. What could go wrong?
Yeah, health insurance needs to be optional again. Then you wouldn't have to pay for it at all, and I wouldn't have to help pay medical for people who hate themselves or are too lazy to care about themselves.
Quick question - who paid for the uninsured guy that is going to be turned away everywhere except the (very expensive) ER back when insurance was optional?
Pro-tip: You and everyone else did, in the form of higher prices.
There's no avoiding "pay[ing] medical for [other] people". The most sensible thing to do is to ensure that we collectively get our money's worth.
"Health Apps Could Be Doing More Harm Than Good, Warn Scientists"
Or, they could be doing more good than harm. Way to take a stand, guys. ANYTHING is possible.
A dozen articles a day that contain the phrase "scientists warn" is about as useful as Outlook telling me that attachments MIGHT harm my computer -- every... single... fucking... time.
And are these the same scientists that once said I shouldn't eat eggs, and now they say I should? Or that I should avoid cholesterol -- wait, sorry, now it's only *bad* cholesterol that I should avoid. And I should drink a bunch of water every day... but not *too* much. And I should eat lots of fruits and vegetables... well, not so much fruits, actually, because of the sugar.
"... they... force people to focus on ambitious goals that they will never reach."
Like when an overweight person goes to their doctor and is told for the tenth time in as many years that they should lose weight? Useful, that.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
The "snake oil" quote is about mental health apps, not physical health trackers.
Personally I have tried and discarded Google Fit, but Strava is fantastic and has helped me lose huge amounts of weight and get fitter than I have ever been. For me it succeeds because it's much better at gamifying fitness and making it a little competitive, without having to front up to an actual race.
"I mean, imagine everyone thinks they have to do 10,000 steps but you are not actually physically capable of doing that, you could actually cause harm or damage by doing so."
Well they can just swing their arm while holding the device like I've seen many people do. They can probably do that from the couch while eating Oreo's too. Problem solved.
The best fitness app is Pokemon Go.
Watch Big Bang Theory sometime.
We still have this stupid idea (encouraged by mass media) that the ER is "the place to go" if you suffer the tiniest little mishap. The fact that patients may now be required to pay a trifling co-pay doesn't really alter the equation all that much.
That moron Wolowitz also needs to carry an Epipen and Sheldon should have one in his First Aid kit.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
So, some Ivory tower weenies are whining that something isn't perfect therefore it must be rubbished as a menace. Where have we heard this before? This should be ancient news to all of the peanut gallery here. Anyone here buying into this nonsense should just hand in your geek card now.
I'm the kind of person they claim to be championing and I say they need to STFU and try something else. They might suck at it less.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
For cost-conscious patients, urgent care doctors are a great alternative to the emergency room. For those who have low or no deductibles / co-pays, the ER may be the first thing that they think of. But there's also a large swath of the population who can only get medical care in the ER due to being uninsured / under-insured.
This just in, statistics don't always apply to everyone. Some people (especially in different regions of the world) may have different biologies that make the statistic way off the mark and may actually cause harm to them, or not go far enough. Experts are SHOCKED by the revelation. In other news, "Just how wet is water?" we'll have the answer for you at 11.
Yep, there's the angle.
No thanks. I don't want my average white blood cell count going up 0.00000001% to start serving me a never ending torrent of targeted advertising for clinics, Tylenol, and antibiotics. (I live in the US, yes they can advertise drugs to you here.) Nor do I want my health insurance to suddenly jack up the rates / premiums when I'm actually sick.
If you are even slightly fit, walking is not exercise.
If you are unfit, walking is a good start to becoming fit, but it won't take you all the way.
Fitness comes from challenging your muscles, from pushing your limits and from cardio-vascular work.
Strength can be built with resistance training (weights) and calisthenics (sit-ups, push-ups), but heart health only comes from cardio.
I dislike cardio as much as the next guy, the sweating, the panting, and the enormous amount of time it takes out of my day.
But I wanna live until we can transfer our intellect into machines (just kidding).
I do feel the best all day if I run in the morning, so at least that works for me.
- I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
20,000 additional steps equates to an extra 2000 steps for you? How long are your legs that your stride length is 10 feet?
They said "from a common sense 30,000 foot perspective". Feet, not steps.
I said "10,000 steps a day was hard enough!" Steps, not feet.
The average stride length is about 2.2 feet for women and 2.5 feet for men.
The recommended 10,000 steps would then equal 22,000 feet for women or 25,000 feet for men (on average.)
Taking the difference between those numbers and the 30,000 feet means a difference of 8000 or 5000 feet.
5000 extra feet for the men divided by 2.5 feet per step would be 2000 additional steps.
8000 feet for the women divided by 2.2 feet per step would be 3,636 additional steps.
Arguably i should have rounded up to 2000-4000 steps instead of down to 2000-3000 steps, but aside from that my math checks out. Yours is... suspect.
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Is it really that difficult to rack up 3,500 steps a day? When I got my S6 I turned on the step monitor in S6 and most days I hit the default 10,000 step target without even trying. It isn't really that hard to fool the app in to counting steps just by moving it in a way to simulate a walking motion (from the phone's perspective where it is likely to be in a pocket).
I'm not too sure why I leave it on as I don't pay much attention to it, but in any case 3,500 steps is a very low target to hit.