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NSA Risks Talent Exodus Amid Morale Slump, Trump Fears (reuters.com)

Dustin Volz and Warren Strobel, writing for Reuters: The National Security Agency risks a brain-drain of hackers and cyber spies due to a tumultuous reorganization and worries about the acrimonious relationship between the intelligence community and President Donald Trump, according to current and former NSA officials and cybersecurity industry sources. Half-a-dozen cybersecurity executives told Reuters they had witnessed a marked increase in the number of U.S. intelligence officers and government contractors seeking employment in the private sector since Trump took office on Jan. 20. One of the executives, who would speak only on condition of anonymity, said he was stunned by the caliber of the would-be recruits. They are coming from a variety of government intelligence and law enforcement agencies, multiple executives said, and their interest stems in part from concerns about the direction of U.S intelligence agencies under Trump. Retaining and recruiting talented technical personnel has become a top national security priority in recent years as Russia, China, Iran and other nation states and criminal groups have sharpened their cyber offensive abilities. NSA and other intelligence agencies have long struggled to deter some of their best employees from leaving for higher-paying jobs in Silicon Valley and elsewhere.

25 of 251 comments (clear)

  1. All my friends in NSA are looking by JoshuaZ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is completely anecdotal; I'm a mathematician and I know a lot of people who work for the NSA. Almost every single one of them right now is quietly or not so quietly looking for other work. At least one of them has an undated resignation letter in their desk ready to go if they are asked to do anything that they find morally questionable (and this is someone who has generally defended NSA's actions in the past). The morale at NSA right now is in a massive slump.

    1. Re: All my friends in NSA are looking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Then he should have left after Snowden. Your friend is a liar and a hypocrite.

    2. Re:All my friends in NSA are looking by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is completely anecdotal; I'm a mathematician and I know a lot of people who work for the NSA. Almost every single one of them right now is quietly or not so quietly looking for other work. At least one of them has an undated resignation letter in their desk ready to go if they are asked to do anything that they find morally questionable (and this is someone who has generally defended NSA's actions in the past).

      So, he was fine with Obama doing anything illegal, he's just worried about Trump.

      As someone else said, your "friend" is a liar and a hypocrite if he stayed on past Snowden's revelations.

    3. Re:All my friends in NSA are looking by Notabadguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They've been looking since the Snowden revelations tanked morale. During Obama's tenure. In fact, it was in the news, here on slashdot with an almost identical headline, minus the trump bit.

    4. Re: All my friends in NSA are looking by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not everything the NSA (or other agencies) do is morally questionable, unless you're somehow of the belief that the entire business of intelligence is so. I spent several years working for NSA/CSS, and I was never asked to do anything remotely questionable. That said, I did not doubt that others were likely pushed to do questionable things in the name of the War on Terror. I liked to think that I would have had the courage to stand up and so no if I had been so asked, though I never was. Should I have quit, on the basis of a hypothetical, knowing that the work I was doing was actively helping save the lives of innocent people?

    5. Re: All my friends in NSA are looking by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While what Snowden revealed was awful, it wasn't entirely unexpected.

      That's not damning with faint praise, that's just damning...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re: All my friends in NSA are looking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While what Snowden revealed was awful, it wasn't entirely unexpected.

      No, it wasn't unexpected, but prior to that, there was plausible deniability. We all suspected, but couldn't be sure.

      Now we know (without any tinfoil) they routinely commit criminal activities against the people of USA, and since none of them have been arrested and charged, everyone can be pretty sure that it's not going to stop.

      Snowden hasn't even been pardoned yet. Right now, all we have are presidents supporting the NSA in its conflict against The People, and when your boss says "keep doing that" then you're going to keep doing that. Pardoning Snowden would be a no-brainer fundamental easy thing to do, whether you're going to actually have the org start flying straight, or even just pay lip service and continue the criminal activities under the radar. Until it happens, NSA is perceived as openly anti-American. If you work for the NSA, most people think that you're a crookl, even if you're just a receptionist with no power who never breaks the law.

      Yes, they probably do things for us. But they have this unresolved scandal. Nothing Nixon did could ever possibly matter until Watergate was resolved. Justice must be served.

    7. Re: All my friends in NSA are looking by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I fail to see how nsa has EVER 'kept us safe'. and due to their being untouchable and above the law, we'll NEVER KNOW, either.

      Then NSA is a dual-mission agency. They do SIGINT, but they are also tasked with ensuring the security of critical infrastructure. Some of this involves designing crypto protocols, some auditing nominally secure systems, and so on (for example, writing SELinux). It's entirely possible to be working entirely on this kind of thing. You're probably making the world a better place, even if the net contribution of your entire organisation might not be.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re: All my friends in NSA are looking by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Everyone has a different bar; obviously, Snowden's and your standards are different from this unnamed guy's. It's not black and white.

      What's remarkable about this article is how apparently bad the morale is at the NSA now. So obviously, a lot of NSA insiders were at least somewhat OK with things post-Snowden (or with the things Snowden revealed), but now they're *not* OK with how things are going now with Trump in office.

      It's kinda like the Mafia: even they have their limits. They'll happily do "protection" rackets, prostitution, etc., but do something that victimizes young children and suddenly they're morally opposed. (A lot of hardened criminals are like this, which is why child predators have to be kept separate from them in prison.) This isn't to say NSA employees are like the Mafia or other hardened criminals, I'm just pointing out the parallel: everyone has different standards, and at some point can be pushed too far, or asked to do something that's beyond their morals, and that appears to be what we're seeing here.

    9. Re: All my friends in NSA are looking by Enigma2175 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh, they are pushing for backdoor-less crypto while simultaneously paying RSA $10 million to put a backdoor into their crypto? Yeah, we should really just trust these guys, I'm sure they would never use that backdoor for anything but pure good.

      --

      Enigma

  2. Re:Obama Loyalists by JoshuaZ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not what is going on. For example, one of my friends who is looking to leave NSA has been there since the early 2000s. Also, there are very few mathematicians who like Trump, and a lot of this exodus is among the actual math people, not the administrators.

  3. Why Now? by PackMan97 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With Snowden and Binney and Drake before him...why now? It's not as if the stuff that these folks are being asked to do is changed in any appreciable way.

    1. Re:Why Now? by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, an agency like the NSA does do more than one thing, you know.

      This is called the selective attention fallacy. We all know that the NSA does many legitimate and non-controversial things. We just act like everyone there is involved in the controversial ones.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  4. This happens with every change in administration by El+Cubano · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The "same" thing happened when Obama was elected. Bush had significantly expanded many intelligence programs and there lots of folks in the intelligence community who feared that Obama's campaign focus on closing Guantanamo and pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan along with his focus on transparency and civil liberties meant that he would gut the entire community and all of its big programs.

    They were wrong. It wasn't long before morale rebounded when people figured out Obama wasn't going to drastically shake things up.

    Now, I think Trump, given his personality and what he has done so far, is more likely to shake things up then Obama was, but in the end this will end up being something that we point to the next time the administration changes and there is a story about people in the intelligence community fearing changes suffer a morale slump and start thinking about leaving.

    Heck, the intelligence community loses way more people to the private sector because of things like "I can keep my phone with me at my desk," "I can talk about my work in public", and "I don't have to deal with the insanity that is government bureaucracy" way more than "the president might ask me to do something I find objectionable."

    The truth is that the intelligence has a very robust oversight apparatus and you don't have to look very hard to see that congress actually like holding the intelligence community accountable. Are there abuses? Definitely, just like with anything else. However, they are about as common as instances of actual voter fraud. In addition to that, if Trump gets the defense budget increases he is seeking, that will translate directly into increased funding for the intelligence community, which will likely improve morale overall.

  5. This started BEFORE Trump by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    FTA:

    "The problem is especially acute at NSA, current and former officials said, due to a reorganization known as NSA21 that began last year and aims to merge the agency's electronic eavesdropping and domestic cyber-security operations."

    "The changes include new management structures that have left some career employees uncertain about their missions and prospects. Former employees say the reorganization has failed to address widespread concerns that the agency is falling behind in exploiting private-sector technological breakthroughs."

    "Some NSA veterans attribute the morale issues and staff departures to the leadership style of Rogers, who took over the spy agency in 2014 with the task of dousing an international furor caused by leaks from former contractor Edward Snowden."

    But you have to love how Reuters concludes the article:

    "Trump's criticism of the intelligence community has exacerbated the stress caused by the reorganization at the NSA, said Susan Hennessey, a former NSA lawyer now with Brookings Institution."

    You do realize Reuters, he wasn't the cause....

  6. I think one thing is easy to overlook... by RyanFenton · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know there's been a lot of back-and-forth about Trump.

    But the way most everyone in the world views him, is that he has always been, and remains the living symbol of arrogance and greed. Trump does not serve the United States of America, the USA functionally serves Trump as it stands.

    Working in any position where you were spending your life promoting that would suck. It's painful enough that an otherwise wonderful nation elected that dude.

    Yes, defending Ameirca is crucially important, and our nation still stands for a lot of very important principles, but when all of that sits in service to, well, Trump, it would be very difficult to not want to go off and help it some other way.

    I empathize with the folks making those choices.

    Ryan Fenton

  7. Re:This happens with every change in administratio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Stop being so damned reasonable.

    This is another opportunity to blindly bash Trump and up our leftist street credentials with no evidence whatsoever, just some anonymous reports with no numbers in them which can't be refuted or intelligently discussed because this entire story is completely anecdotal.

    Anecdotal trumps Trump! Or something like that.

    Now where's the slashdot story about how Bill Nye got schooled by Tucker Carlson over global warming? We haven't given the mindless left a chance to down mod intelligent people over climate change on slashdot in a while.

  8. How is this a bad thing? by Syncerus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not to be a smartass, but do we really want our best and brightest in the NSA? Whether you are politically left, right or agnostic, the surveillance state should be a serious concern for all those who value privacy and liberty. This isn't a Bush, Obama or Trump thing: this is an individual rights thing.

    --
    "Man is nothing without the works of man" -- Helvetius
  9. Re:Obama Loyalists by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 4, Funny

    You'll also find those who support Trumps agenda joining the administration.

    Good to know that a cadre of Paula Beans will be keeping America safe from "cyber" attacks.

  10. Re: Obama Loyalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The kind of people who support Trump are mentally incapable of doing the work that the people leaving are currently doing.

    They don't generally have the faculties.

    Oh I do so love the leftists - "We are more educated than you!" mantra.. Where it might be true that leftist have more formal education on average (and it is) it does NOT follow that they are smarter as a whole. I've seen what passes as higher education and I can tell you that from this republican's perspective it comes with a HUGE liberal slant. The further you go in higher education, the more leftist indoctrination you get. It's hard to avoid.

    So my answer to this mantra of yours is this... Is it that liberals are smarter so they naturally have more education or that higher education makes one more liberal? I say it's the latter more than the former. Which makes leftist actually dumber because they fell for the indoctrination they got.

  11. Re:Obama Loyalists by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As you pointed out, it's completely anecdotal.

    So, just like half the "news" in the mainstream media, eh? "An anonymous source" blah blah blah. If that is good enough, then surely a comment from a long-time slashdotter will do?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  12. Help them leave by s.petry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Before I begin, I will say that my opinion would be the exact same no matter which party held the office. The NSA is not supposed to be a political entity, it is supposed to serve the American people as a whole. Any person in any agency that refuses to support the current administration should absolutely leave, and do so in a hurry. Any person in the agency being forced to work against the interests of the current administration should blow the whistle on the people making demands which harm the Country.

    While we have seen some churn in every administration change, what I notice quite differently with this one is that agencies believe it's okay to damage the country instead of just leaving their job. I spent a decade working DOD and experienced numerous administration changes. Taking a crap on administration was never before seen as okay, yet that is what the current leaks are designed to do.

    Another anecdote to consider is that my family was mostly Democratic party members. The behavior of the Democratic party for the last several months has pushed every single one of them away. The current behavior has turned them into enemies of the Democratic party. That sentiment is being echoed across the country as they continue to try and destroy the current Administration. The Democrats continuing to push hard for identity politics is going to continue to diminish support. Look at their visual in the message last night in the Response to the Presidential address to Congress. What image does a bunch of elder white people from the South, all sitting with stern faces, project? Racial harmony sure didn't come to mind. (these shots are well planned, not impromptu)

    The job of the minority party in Government is not to undermine the majority, it is to keep their side relevant in law making and conversation.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Help them leave by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Any person in any agency that refuses to support the current administration should absolutely leave, and do so in a hurry.

      Those people are hired to serve their country foremost, not their president.

      Taking a crap on administration was never before seen as okay, yet that is what the current leaks are designed to do.

      We The People must distance ourselves from Trump if we are to retain any credibility.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  13. Seems like improvement... by mi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    acrimonious relationship between the intelligence community and President Donald Trump

    Yeah, stop leaking the White House staff's communications to press, you "Deep Throat" wannabes...

    said he was stunned by the caliber of the would-be recruits [applying for private sector jobs -mi]

    This part, actually, sounds great — consumer's technology gets a chance to improve beyond the government's ability to spy on us.

    And not just American Government's — by far the most benign of the three — that of Russia and China as well.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  14. Morale problems, eh? by king+neckbeard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I feel SO SORRY that the professional constitutional and human rights violators aren't feeling all that chipper about their work.

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.