One Bitcoin Is Now Worth More Than One Ounce of Gold (techcrunch.com)

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One Bitcoin Is Now Worth More Than One Ounce of Gold (techcrunch.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Thursday March 2, 2017 @10:00AM from the gold-standard dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: For the first time ever, the price of one bitcoin has surpassed the price of one ounce of gold. While today's swap can be attributed to a good day for bitcoin (up ~3%) and a bad day for gold (down ~1.3%), the big picture is that bitcoin has more than doubled in the last year (up ~185% from a year ago) while gold is essentially trading exactly at the price it was a year ago. Even though bitcoin and gold are both thought of as alternative assets, they don't usually trade in correlation. Still, it's notable that bitcoin has (at least temporally) surpassed the price of gold. Gold is quite literally the "gold standard" of alternative assets, often used by investors to hedge against potential losses in more traditional assets like real estate and the stock market.

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One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 10:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

The power goes out. How much is your bitcoin worth then?
1. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 10:11 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You don't need active power to store bitcoin, wallet information can be safely stored on an offline medium such as a USB stick.
2. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by ASDFnz · 2017-03-02 10:11 · Score: 2
  
  Are you meaning that all power in the entire world?
  If you are, then nothing. Gold would be fairly much useless in your post apocalyptic world as well though, you can't eat it, you can't use it for shelter, it is heavy... Bullets and livestock will be the trading commodities.
3. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by ASDFnz · 2017-03-02 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  It weighs less in you imagination does it?
4. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 10:31 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The question wasn't, "The power goes out. Does your bitcoin still exist?".
  It was, "The power goes out. How much is your bitcoin worth then?".
  We're talking about worth here. To put it another way, value.
  The value of pretty much anything depends significantly on its usability. A lack of usability reduces value.
  A bitcoin in cold, offline storage is essentially worthless if it can't be easily and conveniently accessed (due to a lack of electricity to power the computers and networks needed to use it).
  What you're proposing is the same as encasing a gold bar in concrete, and then burying it a mile underground where it's inaccessible without a huge amount of effort to retrieve it.
  Does the gold have potential value? Sure. What's its actual value to somebody who wants to use it for commercial purposes right away, given its inaccessible state? Worthless.
  That's the point I think that the GP was trying to make, and that you (and whoever dumbly modded you up) totally missed.
  It's much easier to make bitcoin totally unusable, and hence worthless, than it is to do the same for most other currencies or currency-like commodities.
5. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by dunkelfalke · 2017-03-02 10:38 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Given that gold has been valuable for thousands of years, way before industrialisation, I'd say you are wrong. Gold has several properties that make it useful - it is non-reactive, corrosion resistant, quite biocompatible (has been used by dentists for centuries), an excellent conductor and so on.
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
6. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by David_Hart · 2017-03-02 10:40 · Score: 2
  
  Are you meaning that all power in the entire world?
  If you are, then nothing. Gold would be fairly much useless in your post apocalyptic world as well though, you can't eat it, you can't use it for shelter, it is heavy... Bullets and livestock will be the trading commodities.
  According to Fallout we'll be using bottlecaps.... mmmm.... Nuka Cola.....
7. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by ASDFnz · 2017-03-02 10:47 · Score: 1, Troll
  
  Gold has several properties that make it useful - it is non-reactive, corrosion resistant, quite biocompatible (has been used by dentists for centuries), an excellent conductor and so on.
  Remember, this is a world where the laws of physics have changed (yeah, it is ridiculous but he bought it up) so there is no electricity.
  Gold would not be useful for any of your applications (especially being an excellent conductor) in that parallel universe.
8. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by dunkelfalke · 2017-03-02 11:00 · Score: 1
  
  But bullets magically would continue to work, right?
  And no, they aren't a good commodity - they have a limited shelf life and the technology to make new ones for the same kind of firearms would not be possible in a non-industrialised world. Bullets for an arquebus, on the other hand, is just cast lead. Salpeter would become a strategic chemical again.
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
9. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by ASDFnz · 2017-03-02 11:05 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  But bullets magically would continue to work, right?
  As long as they are not electrical ones (not sure where you are going with that).
  They last for an amazingly long time too being sealed units, for example, fairly much the entire world supply of 50 cal rounds were manufactured in WWII and we still use them today.
10. Re: One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 11:10 · Score: 1
  
  We're looking here at almost impossible scenario.
  What if it's on my phone I only need a little bit of power to charge it = a simple crank up torch would do. Then you only need means to broadcast transaction. It's possible to do that over DVB or even CB radio. One would imagine it shouldn't be that difficult to achieve using other radio frequencies. Also if someone has an access to full node and can verify that transaction is signed correctly can accept transaction on USB or paper and broadcast it once access to network is gained.
  How many such catastrophic power outages have you experienced during your existence?
11. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Narcocide · 2017-03-02 11:17 · Score: 1
  
  It's worth exactly the same. Your hand-crank battery charger and DC powered computing device however just got a lot more valuable.
12. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Trogre · 2017-03-02 11:21 · Score: 2
  
  Fitting, since a bitcoin is essentially just a certificate that some schmuck won a lottery after likely wasting hundreds of kilowatt-hours in compute energy.
  
  --
  "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
13. Re: One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by itsenrique · 2017-03-02 11:24 · Score: 1
  
  I think he's trying to argue that gold has less intrinsic value than it's worth. Some of the price of gold is driven by speculation and hoarding, not actually using it.
14. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 11:31 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  It was, "The power goes out. How much is your bitcoin worth then?".
  ...
  It's much easier to make bitcoin totally unusable, and hence worthless, than it is to do the same for most other currencies or currency-like commodities.
  Strange that of all the different possible media of exchange, so many people choose to use bank cards to buy things, cards that would be equally worthless were "the power to go out".
15. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by cdrudge · 2017-03-02 11:35 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  How much is your gold worth when you need to send a payment half way around the world near instantly? Your gold is useless while a bitcoin could be valuable. We can come up with all sorts of arbitrary scenarios that would make bitcoins and gold either very valuable or completely worthless.
  The fact of the matter is that the inherent value of anything is exactly what someone will pay for it right then. And right now 1 bitcoin is worth more than one ounce of gold based on currently trending transaction values.
16. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by arglebargle_xiv · 2017-03-02 11:40 · Score: 2
  
  Yawn. It's now worth more than gold, call me back when it's reached the value of a tulip bulb in 1637, or a CDO in 2008.
17. Re: One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by ralphsiegler · 2017-03-02 12:06 · Score: 1
  
  A stack of hundred dollar bills is more useful than Bitcoin in any store near me. Does that change Bitcoin value? Some countries use gold in markets on the street, been there done that.
18. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by nobuddy · 2017-03-02 12:54 · Score: 1
  
  This assumes that gold has any value in the same apocalyptic environment. Or a paper dollar. Or a bank statement.
  You want trade goods valuable then? Vacuum packed or freeze dried coffee, cocoa powder, similar durable luxury goods that have to be imported. There is your apocalypse money. Nobody will give a flying rat's ass about cash or currency of any kind.
19. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by nobuddy · 2017-03-02 13:21 · Score: 1
  
  Limited shelf life? I suppose anything less than infinity is technically "limited". Ammo does not expire, at least not in human lifetime terms.
20. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by morethanapapercert · 2017-03-02 13:29 · Score: 2
  
  Your analogy about burying gold overlooks something: On the international gold markets, the actual ingots usually don't physically change hands. Quite often, the custodians of the gold don't even move it around within the same vault. In most cases, what actually moves around are the certificates of gold deposit. (even those usually move electronically) Whether it be a mile down, encased in concrete, or in some vault under a Swiss mountain, gold is often inaccessible.
  Mind you, one of the biggest markets for gold is actually the housewives of India, for whom buying actual gold (often as jewellery) and squirrelling it away is a time honoured practice against calamity. The smaller coins, bullion and ingots the normal consumer buys are the same thing.
  I do note with some wry amusement that, in the event of a genuine calamity, all that digitally accessed money (gold, bitcoin, your chequeing account) is totally worthless until and unless things return to normal. Moreover, the value of gold would likely take a steep hit, as hungry people will happily pay obscene amounts of gold (in pre-calamity value) for a square meal, doubly so if they have hungry kids. The longer the calamity is expected to endure, the less value that physical gold has, up to a point. (a seller would become less and less willing to part with his food or medicine supplies for gold the longer he thinks his supplies have to last him. Meanwhile, hungry people suck at long term thinking...)
  
  --
  I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
21. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by bjohnson · 2017-03-02 14:04 · Score: 2
  
  The power goes out. How much is your gold worth then?
22. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by drinkypoo · 2017-03-02 15:31 · Score: 1
  
  Let's say that there's a series of solar events which destroy all the electrical things until we can rebuild. Society will go rapidly to shit, but whoever rebuilds on the ashes will have plenty of electricity-related uses for gold.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
23. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 19:06 · Score: 1
  
  A bitcoin in cold, offline storage is essentially worthless if it can't be easily and conveniently accessed (due to a lack of electricity to power the computers and networks needed to use it).
  Virtually all of my money is in my bank account, which I can only access with a debit and/or credit card which basically requires electricity to function also.
24. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by mysidia · 2017-03-02 20:13 · Score: 1
  
  The question wasn't, "The power goes out. Does your bitcoin still exist?".
  It was, "The power goes out. How much is your bitcoin worth then?".
  It's worth just as much as your Credit card is after the power goes out.
  Also, your Checkbook and Debit card are worth the same amount after the power goes out which is $0.
  All the information is stored in computers, And if those computers are down, Then you have nothing.
25. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by dunkelfalke · 2017-03-03 00:29 · Score: 1
  
  They only last if stored under ideal conditions. If subjected to moisture, bullets and casings corrode, primer decay leading to hang fires and complete duds. Nitrocellulose degrades with time, leaking nitric acid, leading to dead primers and, well, spontaneous combustion. The propellant is usually mixed with a stabiliser, but the stabiliser tends to deplete after a while. Subjected to warmth all this happens a lot of faster.
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
26. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Oswald+McWeany · 2017-03-03 02:21 · Score: 1
  
  I think what he might have been implying is that, it takes very little weight of gold to transfer a large amount of purchasing power. A pound of gold will go a long way.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
27. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Oswald+McWeany · 2017-03-03 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  Remember, this is a world where the laws of physics have changed (yeah, it is ridiculous but he bought it up) so there is no electricity.
  Gold would not be useful for any of your applications (especially being an excellent conductor) in that parallel universe.
  Even in a world of scarcity there will be haves and have-nots. Gold will be valuable because a precious few will see it as jewelry, even as the rest of us fight for scraps.
  Gold is easily identified, very hard to fake, durable and scarce, it is an ideal currency for simplistic economies. Certainly, in the collapse of civilization, gold won't have a "use" OTHER THAN as a currency. It may widely fluctuate in value, especially at first, depending on how many scraps there are for the hoi polloi to eat and how much they're willing to exchange for a meal, but eventually, once all the paper money is deteriorated and gone, gold would live on.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
28. Re: One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by eric_harris_76 · 2017-03-03 13:47 · Score: 1
  
  Or rather, what the people who are willing to buy it are willing to pay for it, and what the people who are willing to sell it are willing to sell it for.
  The people who aren't willing to sell it think it is worth more.
  The people who aren't willing to buy it think it is worth less.
  Value is subjective. Obviously.
  
  --
  There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
29. Re: One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by peawormsworth · 2017-03-03 20:21 · Score: 1
  
  I think gold is worth more than its market value. Most people don't even have gold, and instead have a piece of paper that represents gold that probably does not exist in reality. The true supply of gold is smaller than the market, so its value in the physical form should be higher than market rate.
30. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by dunkelfalke · 2017-03-04 00:41 · Score: 1
  
  I had a box of 9x18 surplus where some corroded and leaked brownish crap.
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
31. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by dunkelfalke · 2017-03-04 00:49 · Score: 1
  
  http://www.socnet.com/showthre...
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
32. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by cdrudge · 2017-03-06 00:37 · Score: 1
  
  The places that do 'accept' it, for the most part DONT ACTUALLY ACCEPT BITCOIN . . . It's too fucking volatile to hold onto. They mostly pass BitCoin transactions through a third party who then pays your bill with a real financial transaction.
  Oh, so sort of like credit cards. You give your card information to the merchant, they go to a 3rd party who then actually handles the shifting of money around.
  
  Outside of malware and exchanges, no one of any importance directly accepts BitCoin for payment, so try again.
  Overstock.com, Expedia, Newegg, TigerDirect.com, Shopify stores, Dish... Yeah you're right. None of those businesses are really of any importance. Just some of the largest online retailers or service providers in their particular industry.
  If I wanted to pay a bill with Bitcoin, I don't care what the merchant does with it after I make my payment. It's not my problem as long as my account is credited for the payment.
33. Re:One bitcoin is worth more than gold to idiots by Coren22 · 2017-03-08 09:46 · Score: 1
  
  We are at peak power, we are running out of electrons to produce power with!
  
  --
  APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Re:There is something seriously wrong here by HornWumpus · 2017-03-02 10:13 · Score: 1

What can you sell it for? That's what it's worth on planet earth.

--
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
No, it's not notable by wonkey_monkey · 2017-03-02 10:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

Still, it's notable that bitcoin has (at least temporally) surpassed the price of gold.
No, that's not notable. The only notable thing is that bitcoin is at an all-time high.
Comparing a piece of mathematical information to an arbitrary amount of an arbitrary substance is not in any way notable.

--
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
1. Re:No, it's not notable by jediborg · 2017-03-02 11:56 · Score: 1
  
  Gold isn't really that arbitrary, its only created during supernova's, and the amount created is proportional to the star's mass. This means when you look around the universe, the proportion, or ratio of all gold to all other elements is the same. Sure you get some planetary systems with more gold than others (or more likely, more ACCESSIBLE gold than others) but on average, the ratio of gold to other elements remains the same.
  Now consider that all prices are ratios. In a barter economy things where expressed as 'one pair of shoes is worth three loaves of bread' or 'one woman is worth two goats' e.g. 1/3 and 1/2. The great invention of money was to take one single commodity and make it the denominator, so now one woman is worth 2 gold ounces, and a goat is worth 1/2 ounce of gold. Later we (moronically) replaced gold with paper fiat currency.
  As scientists we should advocate for standardization of weights and measures. If the length of the meter changed every day it would be extremely difficult for two construction companies to co-operate in building a bridge. Without extremely precise measurements modern science couldn't exist.
  Meters measure distance, money is supposed to measure value. So why does our unit of measurement (the dollar) change in value every day? It should be as constant as possible, we should standardize this unit of measurement. We have defined the meter to be a fraction of the distance light travels in a second. As scientists we try to define our units using universal constants. Since the ratio of gold to all other elements is constant, and all prices are ratios, the only logical objective solution is for gold to be our unit of value, or currency, or money.
  For other reasons in the past Gold has historically been money and still holds those properties today. How much humans value this element forged in the heart of a dying star that never rusts, can be easily divided, is fungible, and impossible to counterfeit is not arbitrary.
  The fact that a large group of people (in this case, the number of people conducting transactions in bitcoin) have decided it is worth as much or more than gold is actually quite notable
2. Re:No, it's not notable by Bruce+Perens · 2017-03-02 12:33 · Score: 2
  
  Bitcoins aren't really worth anything. There are just some people who have convinced themselves that they are worth something. You can'r really rely on such people continuing their belief.
  
  --
  Bruce Perens.
3. Re:No, it's not notable by lindseyp · 2017-03-02 13:04 · Score: 1
  
  What absolute bollocks. Replace the word "gold" with any other element and your entire 'justification' remains just as valid. Not to mention the fact that an 'ounce' is an arbitrary measure of anything. That the price of 'one' (an arbitrary amount) bitcoin has surpassed the price of one ounce (arbitrary measure) of gold (arbitrary element, one of many that we consider 'valuable') is even less notable than the clock ticking over from one year to another, in our arbitrarily decided calendar.
  
  --
  j'ai découvert une démonstration vraiment admirable (de ce théorème général) que cette si
4. Re:No, it's not notable by epine · 2017-03-02 17:21 · Score: 1
  
  Comparing a piece of mathematical information to an arbitrary amount of an arbitrary substance is not in any way notable.
  I concur. It's a sad moment for the number "one".
5. Re:No, it's not notable by mooterSkooter · 2017-03-02 21:32 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Hey Bruce,
  Your lack of understanding of this amazes me. I've been reading your comments on Slashdot for years and thought you were an intelligent guy!
  Anyway, I don't think the value that people give to bitcoin is entirely delusional as you seem to state. It's value, I believe, is in the fact it can be used to transfer value safely over the internet without a 3rd party - well an 'aware' 3rd party that allows or disallows it. It's free from the the control of the banks, nobody can just decide to 'print more bitcoin' on a whim.
  It may be mostly built on illegal markets and speculation currently but that will change as it becomes more accepted and trusted. I spend it whenever I can but my choices are limited...so it's mainly Steam games! (I do not use illegal markets...and I'm not just saying that to stop the NSA from tracking me...not that it will)
6. Re:No, it's not notable by Troed · 2017-03-02 22:07 · Score: 1
  
  The Internet isn't really worth anything. There are just some people who have convinced themselves that it's useful. You can'r really rely on such people continuing their belief.
  Srlsly.
  
  --
  it's in my head
7. Re:No, it's not notable by r0kk3rz · 2017-03-03 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  As scientists we should advocate for standardization of weights and measures. If the length of the meter changed every day it would be extremely difficult for two construction companies to co-operate in building a bridge. Without extremely precise measurements modern science couldn't exist.
  Meters measure distance, money is supposed to measure value. So why does our unit of measurement (the dollar) change in value every day? It should be as constant as possible, we should standardize this unit of measurement.
  Except the total amount of things we want to put a value on changes, so having a variable unit means that people don't have to change the price of their goods everyday, and beyond a certain point gold becomes rather hard to divide up into the right amounts.
8. Re:No, it's not notable by Oswald+McWeany · 2017-03-03 02:34 · Score: 1
  
  Bitcoin has a value obviously, because some people will buy it. That value is highly arbitrary and subject to rapid changes. It, just like anything else, has value assigned to it based on what society chooses to place in it. Unlike other assets, that value is subject to much more rapid change.
  As an investment opportunity, I think many, including myself, would give it the cold shoulder. It seems to be frequently stolen from online vaults (with no protection to consumer), and it's future is highly unknown. Gold and money have long established precedent lasting many generations. Bitcoin is still new, and has no protections.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
9. Re:No, it's not notable by mooterSkooter · 2017-03-03 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  But it also has a value because you can buy things off the internet with it, surely?
  And as for it getting stolen, eventually people will learn that exchanges are not banks and it's up to yourself to look after your private keys.
Re:There is something seriously wrong here by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 10:15 · Score: 1

Bitcoin is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. The same is true of gold. Today, people are buying and selling bitcoin at this valuation at any given moment, whether you believe it or not.
Don't listen to the Bitcoin haters by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 10:18 · Score: 5, Interesting

If you want a good laugh, go read through all the old /. articles on Bitcoin, particularly around when it was reaching $1 in value.
So many naysayers. Well they're not laughing now!
1. Re:Don't listen to the Bitcoin haters by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 10:43 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Naysayer here, still chuckling.
2. Re: Don't listen to the Bitcoin haters by Time_Ngler · 2017-03-02 13:44 · Score: 1
  
  After a 1200x increase, when is the trap going to spring? Stupid trap, my friends who didn't believe me are all millionaires already!
3. Re:Don't listen to the Bitcoin haters by gravewax · 2017-03-02 23:16 · Score: 1
  
  yep instead I invested in shares and property. admittedly my property has only doubled in value but since I can leverage against it I made 10 fold profit. My shares made me 6 fold return on investment, yeah I feel so depressed I didn't instead invest in bitcoin to make less money.
the sense of worth by roman_mir · 2017-03-02 10:20 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's interesting that the title of this piece is 'One Bitcoin is Now Worth More Than One Ounce of Gold'. I have some gold, I would not exchange it for BitCoins regardless of what they are 'worth'. The sense of worth is a funny thing, I don't feel that Bitcoins are worth anything, they are valueless from my point of view.
If a war started today and there was a shortage of food, if somebody gave me a USB stick with 10 Bitcoins on it I would not exchange it for food I think. I might exchange it for gold though. What is 'worth' and how do you figure that a Bitcoin is actually 'worth' anything? It is a unique electronic number.... to me it is worth 0. Sure, I can make or lose money buying Bitcoin and reselling it at some point later as a speculative vehicle but to say that I would store some 'worth' in them... I would not.

--
You can't handle the truth.
1. Re:the sense of worth by fred6666 · 2017-03-02 10:31 · Score: 1
  
  How is that different from a $20 bill? Its paper value is pretty damn close to $0 to you and me. And yet you are using it. Why? Because its "worth" is $20, which means you can trade it for $20 of goods.
2. Re:the sense of worth by roman_mir · 2017-03-02 10:40 · Score: 2
  
  You are absolutely correct in that comparison, both a BitCoin and a $20 bill are worth nothing at all in themselves. The only difference is that a very large portion of the population still exchanges in $ and the reasons for it are even more amazing than the reasons for the current BitCoin valuation, they are more historically interesting in any case. The reasons for the BitCoin valuation are actually tangentially tied to the reasons for $ valuation.
  As for gold, it's a commodity and it's money in itself, it does not need to be measured in any other form of fiat or money to be money. I will exchange for goods whether anybody else counts it for money or not.
  
  --
  You can't handle the truth.
3. Re:the sense of worth by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 10:41 · Score: 1
  
  Once I can pay my taxes with bitcoins then it'll be "worth" something.
4. Re:the sense of worth by fred6666 · 2017-03-02 14:38 · Score: 1
  
  The problem with your gold (especially small quantities) is that it looses a big part of its value as soon as you get it out of the vault since it would need to be re-certified to re-enter the vault from where it can be electronically traded. Let's face it. A lot of that gold is staying in an underground forever.
5. Re:the sense of worth by roman_mir · 2017-03-02 14:42 · Score: 1
  
  I give you.... Gold Money. There you go, no need to move gold out of vault and to 'recertify it' to transact in it.
  
  --
  You can't handle the truth.
6. Re:the sense of worth by roman_mir · 2017-03-03 00:54 · Score: 1
  
  Hmmm, so how is it going with that amazing reading comprehension of yours, must be tough out there?
  
  --
  You can't handle the truth.
7. Re:the sense of worth by fred6666 · 2017-03-03 01:17 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, but at this point you are just making electronic transactions, and in the end nobody really knows if there really is gold in the vault as it is going to stay there forever. Gold has other (industrial, jewelry) more important purposes.
8. Re:the sense of worth by roman_mir · 2017-03-03 05:24 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, but unlike a unique number generated by some fancy algorithm and unlike pieces of paper that are printed at a whim *without* any actual backing, this is a real thing, it's valuable enough that it is recognized as money (was recognized as money in many cultures for thousands of years) and is much more likely to keep being valuable enough to be recognized as money (without any government telling people that it is money, it just is).
  So I am perfectly happy for it to stay in a vault as long as I can be more or less certain in its security. I definitely cannot be certain about the security of the purchasing power or paper money and I don't even want to talk about the security of purchasing power of BitCoins (which may go to a trillion USD per BitCoin for all I care, it is not money because it has no intrinsic value).
  Gold does have intrinsic value, it is a substance, substances have that value. It has certain properties that make it better money than other substances. It is a substantial item/object/quantity of weight and purity, so it is a real thing, unlike a unique number in a computer or a network.
  I don't see a reason to give up my gold for other purposes (jewelry, electronics, health care, whatever), those are legitimate purposes and we mine 1.5% of total gold supply a year approximately anyway, a part of that covers those needs.
  So that's my take on it. As to the precise knowledge at any moment in time whether the gold is in a vault in case of gold money (which I am not using yet, probably will at some point), they use Brinks as I understand and independent auditors as well. It's definitely more than the Federal reserve is doing.
  
  --
  You can't handle the truth.
Re:There is something seriously wrong here by Lab+Rat+Jason · 2017-03-02 10:27 · Score: 1

While that's a great definition of how much money it's worth, that's not a fair assessment of how much it's actually worth. You can't plate electrical connectors or graven images with bitcoin.

--
Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
Trading in Correlation by thegarbz · 2017-03-02 10:30 · Score: 1

Correlation ... I don't think you know what that word means.
One reason by jolyonr · 2017-03-02 10:32 · Score: 4, Interesting

There is only one reason that bitcoin is so high in value right now, ransomware

--

Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
1. Re:One reason by jolyonr · 2017-03-02 12:16 · Score: 1
  
  Citation:
  jolyonr (2017) https://slashdot.org/comments....
  
  --
  
  Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
2. Re:One reason by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 21:22 · Score: 1
  
  If that's true, it means Windows and macOS users are making me richer.
  I am completely fine with that.
Re: There is something seriously wrong here by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 10:48 · Score: 1

A "golden frying pan" in the video game "team fortress 2" sells for $5k. Why can bitcoin not be qorth anything?
Think of all the energy wasted by HuguesT · 2017-03-02 10:49 · Score: 4, Insightful

to produce this one bitcoin.
1. Re:Think of all the energy wasted by rmdingler · 2017-03-02 11:16 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Taking into account how many tons of ore are necessary to produce your ounce of gold, one could accurately posit a great deal of energy is used in its mining.
  
  --
  Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
  Ernest Hemingway
Re:There is something seriously wrong here by JaredOfEuropa · 2017-03-02 11:34 · Score: 1

The intrinsic value of bitcoin is zero, same as paper money. Yet I'd still stop to pick up a €10 bill.

A more interesting question is what you can actually use BTC for. Not too long ago it was mostly useful to buy illegal drugs or guns online. These days you can also use it to pay for pizza; some online stores have begun accepting BTC but you get utterly raped on the exchange rate. The same more or less applies to transfering money: how often is it that people need to send money where more convenient and/or cheaper alternatives are not available? Very rarely I suspect. You can use it to pay ransomware operators (and I suspect some companies keep a few BTC on hand just for that). And it appears to be slowly adopted as a store of wealth; the long term price is still trending upwards, giving confidence in its longer term value. Demand for a safe haven might be what is actually driving the exchange rate upwards, but keep in mind that when conditions change and people start to liquidate their BTC, the price will plummet and your holdings will be wiped out in no time. By the way, the same is true for gold although to a lesser extent, but whether that is due to the nature of gold or simply the larger volume of the market I don't know.

--
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Hedge? by jmcharry · 2017-03-02 11:45 · Score: 2

I don't think of gold as a hedge. It is more of a speculation. Like other precious metals its value is pretty volatile.
1. Re:Hedge? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 12:17 · Score: 1
  
  Volatile compared with what?
  What kind of investment could you make that would definitely be less volatile than gold?
  You are probably think about your home country's currency, or financial instruments derived in that same currency. Guess what, that currency compared to everything else is also volatile.
eye of the beholder by Ritz_Just_Ritz · 2017-03-02 11:47 · Score: 1, Interesting

There are people out there that will pay real money for a virtual shield in a video game, a garden gnome for their virtual garden, etc.
There's a sucker born every minute.
Bitcoin has zero value unless you're the electricity utility company. I find the entire virtual currency ecosystem to be laughable.
1. Re:eye of the beholder by ASDFnz · 2017-03-02 12:04 · Score: 1
  
  I just bought a HTC Vive with bitcoin.
  Does that mean that HTC Vive's are been given out for free? If so, you should go get yours, they are really cool.
2. Re:eye of the beholder by Ritz_Just_Ritz · 2017-03-02 12:51 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure Bernie Madoff used some of his ill-gotten gains of selling fairy dust to buy tangible goods for himself. That doesn't mean his business wasn't a scam.
3. Re:eye of the beholder by ASDFnz · 2017-03-02 13:22 · Score: 1
  
  Do tell, how is bitcoin a scam?
4. Re:eye of the beholder by ASDFnz · 2017-03-02 19:25 · Score: 2
  
  It's a scam in that it is actually a transfer medium with no reason to increase or decrease in value. The only way its value can go up is if people are hoarding it in such a large amount that it's hard to come by (like tulip bulbs or gold, which is also mainly a scam).
  It is actually very easy to see why it increases and decreases in value and it is the same reason as gold, simple supply and demand. To put that in context there are only just over 16 million of them currently in existence and the bitcoin economy is booming as far as transactions go with somewhere around 150,000 of them exchanging hands every day.
  So, supply and demand + utility. Exactly the same reasons that gold has fluctuating value (or value at all).
  
  But the fact is that people view it as money backed by a government (which can increase and decrease value depending on financial situations in the country) or as a stock. But stocks increase in value due to increased productivity (well in theory at least, actually perceived productivity).
  I don't follow you there, I am not sure that anyone thinks that bitcoin is backed by a government, that is kind of one of the strengths to bitcoin.
  
  Bit coins as an investment is a scam.
  Who do you think is running this scam? Is it any different than gold as an investment?
5. Re:eye of the beholder by grep+-v+'.*'+* · 2017-03-02 19:56 · Score: 1
  
  This isn't related to the topic at hand, but relates to your statement: "There are people out there that will pay real money for a virtual shield in a video game" You missed it last weekend. (So did I.) $13k Worth Of Damage Done In âEve Onlineâ(TM) Annual âoeBurn Jitaâ Event That's not virtual money, that's US Dollars. Virtual money was 5 Quintilian-Billion Venezuelan bolÃvars (actually 700 billion ISKs), but you can actually buy it with dollars. BitCoin too, I'm sure.
  
  It's the annual "Burn Jita" event. Apparently all in-game items have to be manufactured and physically shipped around and collected. [OMG -- there's actually someone that does bookkeeping on their own personal time for FUN?] Jita is the largest (by far) physical marketplace hub. In-game security (CONCORD) is high there I guess, but just like a real police force isn't instantaneous, There are people (500 of them) who for whatever reason (RTFM earlier link) want to "cause as much havoc inside of Hisec for fun, and for profit". And they do.
  
  I guess since the only thing you can actually truly lose is your account (and you could just go make another) they want to "paint the town Red", as it were. That, and the excitement of resource management, reaction time, adrenaline, and notoriety. Oh and faking out real people with false information.
  
  And never mind the money ($26 per person, that's a movie and popcorn) but all of the time involved in setting up and executing...
  
  --
  If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
oh fuck all of you in the zombie apocalypse... by coolmoe2 · 2017-03-02 12:04 · Score: 2

Food,water and ammunition are worth more then both !!!
1. Re:oh fuck all of you in the zombie apocalypse... by EmagGeek · 2017-03-03 00:23 · Score: 1
  
  So first they are worth more, and then they are worth both?
  Can you help clarify?
you mean Chinacoin? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 12:08 · Score: 1

Since 97% of past 6 month trading volume in Bitcoin took place in China, we might as well call it Chinacoin.
And as soon China introduces some form of regulation or restriction it's going to be bye bye Bitcoin price.
1. Re:you mean Chinacoin? by HornWumpus · 2017-03-02 14:42 · Score: 1
  
  It will be interesting to watch China fail at that. China has capital controls on its citizens, of course they are the biggest users of bitcoin. That was bitcoin's main purpose.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
An ounce of gold is nothing by cfalcon · 2017-03-02 12:09 · Score: 4, Interesting

> Still, it's notable that bitcoin has (at least temporally) surpassed the price of gold.
Bullshit, it has not.
There's a cap of 21 million bitcoins. Of this, over three quarters have already been mined. It is supposed to get progressively harder to mine bitcoins, with the intention that the huge numbers of bitcoins that are sitting fallow will eventually appreciate in value, that it will still be worth mining them even as they get harder, etc. Regardless of your views on this, or cryptocurrencies: there's only 21 million bitcoins total.
1 bitcoin is one twenty-millionth of all bitcoins. It is about .000005% of the total blob of bitcoins that will ever be. .000005% of all the gold mined to date- which is definitely not all the gold ever- is around 300 ounces of gold. And that's a very low estimate for the total gold available- some sources have it at over ten times that in available gold. The fact that no one has it pinned down to at least a solid order of magnitude is depressing, but the point is that even the low estimates, the percentage of one bitcoin compared to all the bitcoin, versus that same percentage of gold compared to all the gold, is nowhere close in bitcoins favor.
1. Re:An ounce of gold is nothing by ASDFnz · 2017-03-02 12:15 · Score: 1
  
  Re-read the title, better yet, I will quote it for you;-
  
  One Bitcoin Is Now Worth More Than One Ounce of Gold
2. Re: An ounce of gold is nothing by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-02 12:36 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Sure, but at least with an ounce of gold I could stand on the moon and throw it to destroy your entire city on Earth. Let's see you try that with a bitcoin.
3. Re: An ounce of gold is nothing by ASDFnz · 2017-03-02 12:44 · Score: 1
  
  Unless you can throw stuff at ~10 Km/s (Delta-V required) I don't actually believe you.
4. Re:An ounce of gold is nothing by GuB-42 · 2017-03-02 14:18 · Score: 1
  
  It is supposed to get progressively harder to mine bitcoins, with the intention that the huge numbers of bitcoins that are sitting fallow will eventually appreciate in value, that it will still be worth mining them even as they get harder, etc.
  There are two ways miners are rewarded : new bitcoins and transaction fees. In the end, when there will be almost no bitcoins left to create, transaction fees will become the main driver.
  Bitcoin doesn't rely on its value increasing.
5. Re:An ounce of gold is nothing by radarskiy · 2017-03-02 20:18 · Score: 1
  
  This argument is meaningful only if all gold holdings were denominated in bitcoin and nothing else was denominated in bitcoin. 0 out of 2 conditions are true.
6. Re:An ounce of gold is nothing by radarskiy · 2017-03-02 20:19 · Score: 1
  
  With a cap on quantity of bitcoins they are inherently deflationary... unless you are arguing that no one will ever denominate anything else in bitcoin.
A notable probiscus by rmdingler · 2017-03-02 13:42 · Score: 1

What absolute bollocks. Replace the word "gold" with any other element and your entire 'justification' remains just as valid. Not to mention the fact that an 'ounce' is an arbitrary measure of anything. That the price of 'one' (an arbitrary amount) bitcoin has surpassed the price of one ounce (arbitrary measure) of gold (arbitrary element, one of many that we consider 'valuable') is even less notable than the clock ticking over from one year to another, in our arbitrarily decided calendar.
Some things are more arbitrary than others.

--
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
No. Just No. by DerekLyons · 2017-03-02 16:57 · Score: 1

From TFS: Even though bitcoin and gold are both thought of as alternative assets
Um, no. Gold is nearly universally regarded as an asset, a hedge against inflation, and a store of value. Bitcoin are only regarded as 'alternative assets' by Bitcoin fanboys.
Re:Gold is useful by LightningBolt! · 2017-03-02 19:39 · Score: 1

Cast iron is as effective at the end of a spear and a bit cheaper. Heck, people will pay you to take away an old cast iron tub.

--
Old people fall. Young people spring. Rich people summer and winter.
basic math error? by joao.cordeiro · 2017-03-02 20:57 · Score: 1

How do you compare $/oz with $ ?
1. Re:basic math error? by Z00L00K · 2017-03-02 21:49 · Score: 1
  
  And what's oz? And how much is an ounce? Some ancient non-metric measurements.
  
  --
  If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Re:Volume is key by Troed · 2017-03-02 22:25 · Score: 1

Here are the trading volumes on the different exchanges over the last 24h. I'm quoting only the top tree between BTC and local currencies - there are many many more.
Bitfinex $39,590,400 (BTC and US dollars)
bitFlyer $37,823,900 (BTC and Japanese Yen)
OKCoin.cn $16,917,200 (BTC and Chinese Yuan)
https://coinmarketcap.com/curr...
A few hundred million dollars over a single day is not likely considered "low trade volume".

--
it's in my head
Gold vs Lead by monkeyxpress · 2017-03-03 00:09 · Score: 2

In a scenario where your bitcoin is inaccessible due to the massive long term loss of all our electrical infrastructure, I would suggest a pile of bullets would be a whole lot more valuable to you than some pieces of shiny yellow metal.
Re: No. Just No. by joao.cordeiro · 2017-03-03 00:54 · Score: 1

Gold is Gold. In the future you may be able to create gold with extreme nuclear reactions. But the price of the energy required will be high. Gold has allot of industry aplications and can be stored and protected. Can be tranfered with little cost. Cripto coins are bits of information that can be copied, broken, stolen. It cant be used as material for any industry. It requires resources to do operations with it. In fact, the only thing setting the price is the amount of energy required to process a block of operations... And you have the addictive factor: every bitcoin transfer requires more energy, making bitcoin more costly. But is it worth more just because it costs more? What will happen when brokers say: we wont buy bitcoins anymore, we changed to another crypto coin?
Ounces in 2017? by johnsie · 2017-03-03 01:44 · Score: 1

Cool story, Bro. Since we're talking about archaic formats, was that information stored on 5¼-inch floppy drives?
Re:There is something seriously wrong here by Oswald+McWeany · 2017-03-03 02:28 · Score: 1

While that's a great definition of how much money it's worth, that's not a fair assessment of how much it's actually worth. You can't plate electrical connectors or graven images with bitcoin.
No, but you can use it to buy gold to do that. You can't eat gold, but you can exchange it for food.

--
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Re:Volume is key by Troed · 2017-03-03 08:35 · Score: 1

Uhm. I wrote the post you're referring to, and it was positively a reply to a post about Beanie Babies:
"The key element left out of this comparison is trading volume. At one point, certain Beanie Babies were worth more than gold, but the trade volume was low, and the Beanie Baby economy never took off. It's trivial to drive up the price of a commodity on low trade volume."
My post countered the covert claim about the price of Bitcoin being a result of low trade volumes with the fact that hundreds of millions of dollars in no way makes the price artificially high because of movements on an illiquid market.

--
it's in my head