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Big Tech Lobbying Is On the Verge of Killing Right To Repair Legislation In Minnesota (vice.com)

Jason Koebler, writing for Motherboard: Statehouse employees in Minnesota say that lobbying efforts by big tech companies and John Deere are on the verge of killing right to repair legislation in the state that would have made it easier for consumers and small businesses to fix their electronics. According to two of the bill's sponsors, the bill, which would have introduced "fair repair" requirements for manufacturers in the state, will not get a hearing that's necessary to move the legislation forward. Minnesota Senate rules automatically kills any bills that do not have a hearing scheduled by a certain date (this year, it's March 10). Last year, tech industry lobbying killed a similar bill in New York. "Unfortunately, it's not going to make deadline this session," Republican Sen. David Osmek, one of the sponsors, told me in an email. Osmek would not give additional specifics about his colleagues' concerns with the bill, but a legislative assistant for the bill's other sponsor told me that electronic manufacturer lobbying is likely to blame, while another source close to the legislature told me that tractor manufacturer John Deere -- a long time enemy of fair repair -- helped kill the bill as well.

26 of 136 comments (clear)

  1. Start our own farm equipment company by Sebby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Start our own equipment company, with full parts availability and no lock-in. They'll be selling like hotcakes!

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    AC comments get piped to /dev/null
    1. Re:Start our own farm equipment company by hackwrench · · Score: 2

      With hookers and Blackjack.

    2. Re:Start our own farm equipment company by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's other equipment companies you can buy from. One big one is Kubota, a Japanese company. I'm not sure how their repairability compares to John Deere, but given how many times I've seen John Deere in the tech news about how the intentionally make it impossible for end-users to repair their equipment, I advocate buying Kubota or other foreign brands as a rule. They certainly can't be any worse than JD. Plus that bright orangish-red color is a lot easier to spot from a distance.

      And given they're engineered in Japan, they've got to be better designed. All the Japanese cars I've ever worked on have been so much better engineered than any American car I've touched, there's just no comparison. With American cars, the engines will frequently have some clever and innovative design, but the component reliability will be crap, and the rest of the car will be crap too, with interiors falling apart in a very short amount of time, and generally poor design and layout of everything (like making it unnecessarily difficult to change the oil or do other simple maintenance). With Japanese cars, they aren't always at the cutting-edge of technology, but the component reliability is great, the overall design is great, and they seem to be designed specifically for easy servicing.

    3. Re:Start our own farm equipment company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Forget the equipment and the blackjack.

    4. Re:Start our own farm equipment company by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2

      Cars aren't like tractors. If they were you would still see ones from the 50s and 60s not just as show pieces but as daily use models. Tractors cater to a market that expects high reliability, ease of use, and ease of maintenance, or at least the farmers I know do. I do wonder if Case IH, Ford, and CAT are pulling this shit because it would be a great way to separate themselves from John Deere. Although there is a lot of brand loyalty with tractors and makes things like VI vs. Emacs or Ford vs. Chevy fights seem weak.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    5. Re:Start our own farm equipment company by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If there's that much "brand loyalty" that farmers are screwing themselves by continuing to buy from a manufacturer that screws them over with repairability, when there are better alternatives out there, then fuck the farmers. I have zero sympathy for people who make stupid buying decisions (in the face of much better alternatives) and then whine and complain about how the vendor is mistreating them.

      Tractors cater to a market that expects high reliability, ease of use, and ease of maintenance, or at least the farmers I know do.

      If they're buying John Deere, then obviously ease of maintenance is not a concern of theirs.

    6. Re:Start our own farm equipment company by caseih · · Score: 2

      It's true, and there is a lot less brand loyalty now than there was even a couple of years ago. We regularly see large operators change colors these days. And if you trade off every couple of years, then the repair-ability stuff doesn't even factor into the decision.

      But there are other factors to consider too. There's a certain amount of buy in to the GPS guidance and data acquisition technologies each color uses. Each brand has its own set of non-interoperable computer systems.

      As for me, these issues are becoming more and more important. I still prefer John Deere machines at present, though, because all other things being equal (IE cost), I just prefer the comfort of the cab and controls of the Deere to the other colors. I prefer the way their auto steer works, and I like the IVT. In the past Deere's quality really was above the rest. That's no longer true, unfortunately. Except for issues of personal preference and comfort (some cabs really are less comfortable), all the colors are about the same these days in terms of quality.

      The locked up software really bothers me. But for general repair-ability, at some point it's just a machine, which can be taken apart and understood. Sensors can be tested and replaced. Hydraulic seals can be replaced.

      Electronically, probably the best we can hope for is to route around the damage. If they don't want to let me control hydraulics over the Canbus, I can always interface with the control in a more analog manner. If I want to do my own auto steering system, I can always replace the steering valve with one that's easy to work with.

  2. It's not by desdinova+216 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Apple or the tech companies that are the targets it's the farm equipment manufacturers and auto manufacturers who want to lock down diagnostic and repair.

    1. Re:It's not by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      John Deere wants dealer only service and no 3rd party parts.

    2. Re:It's not by pinkfalcon · · Score: 2

      John Deere has a lot of proprietary software that they do have a legitimate reason to protect. Their self-driving tractors that can compute the optimum path to cover a field, their ability to track how much is harvested per acre, which get's uploaded to their central servers so they can crunch it and sell it back to the farmers.

      Unfortunately, the laws (pushed by John Deere, and I think Case as well) do not distinguish between software and hardware.
      I remember watching my Uncle pulling a starter out of a Chevy Impala and putting it into a John Deere in under 30 minutes so he could go out and feed the cows. I fear those days are probably gone (Note: that particular chore doesn't require any of the proprietary software)

      --
      Real SUV's don't have cupholders
      It's 5:42 A.M., do you know where your stack pointer is?
  3. Re:Min 5 year warranty required by tomhath · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You already have the right to not buy a product if you don't like the terms offered.

  4. Farms these days aren't "small businesses." by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Informative

    Red states' wet dreams involve small independent farming families sustaining themselves by the sweat of their brow independently.

    If it helps pass good laws, sure. But it's worth pointing out that such people are myths now if they weren't always. There are two million farms in the us, and they're mostly mega corporation farms now. In a nation of 300 million people, that's really an insignificant part of the US.

    I would guess that there are orders of magnitude more people who would be interesting in being able to fix their iphone screen than there are small farmers who are just trying to replace the parts on pa's old tractor with money and parts from under the old feather mattress.

    Pass a bill saying "except for farm equipment." John Deere lobbyists will back off, the vast majority of Minnesotans will be able to fix their electronics, everyone wins except for some mega farm corporations who can afford it anyway and big tech. Not the most satisfying outcome, but seriously, give it up with the small farmer bit. They're not worth worrying about even though the right wing acts like they're the only true Americans.

  5. No, don't blame Deere or the electronics industry by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Blame the politicians who took their money to kill the bill, and ultimately blame the people who reelect them. There is no hope unless they are voted out.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  6. Re:No, don't blame Deere or the electronics indust by PoopJuggler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why can't we blame all of the above?

  7. Re:Min 5 year warranty required by Baron_Yam · · Score: 2

    The problem is when there is an effective cooperative oligopoly, or a monopoly.

    Have you tried to buy a phone case for something that isn't an iPhone lately? The iPhone is the current standard for accessories, so if you want accessories you're under heavy pressure to buy Apple.

    When that kind of thing happens, you can either allow the market to drift towards an abusive monopoly or you can attempt to correct things legislatively.

    And 'right-to-repair'... well, that should be the playing field for all manufacturers regardless of the amount of weight they carry. The idea that you can be sold an object but not actually have complete ownership rights over it is ridiculous. That idea becoming fact is obscene.

    Making products deliberately difficult to service or alter, then lobbying for laws to prohibit circumventing those artificial difficulties is not something that should be tolerated in a free society. Not for printer ink, not for gaming consoles, and not for tractors.

  8. Re:Min 5 year warranty required by Sebby · · Score: 2

    You already have the right to not buy a product if you don't like the terms offered.

    So by buying a product, you forfeit that right? Because that's basically what these companies are lobbying for.

    Funny, but I don't see the text anywhere saying I'm forfeiting that when I paid for the product that I own.

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  9. Re:Min 5 year warranty required by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

    One problem here is that a lot of this stuff isn't made plainly clear to customers before purchase. They certainly aren't going to advertise, "our products are specifically engineered so that you can't work on them, and you'll have to pay a small fortune for our technicians to come fix them in the field for you!". (Or, with more consumer-type goods like cars, "our cars are specifically designed so you can't even change your own oil, and it has to be done at the dealership at inflated prices!")

    There should be a law that this stuff should be made clear to the potential customer, so that they can compare brands based on these factors.

  10. Interesting side note... by transami · · Score: 2

    Appliance makers are transitioning to 3-year built-in obsolescence designs. That means you will have to repair or replace 50% of your appliances every three years! And of course it will almost always be cheaper to replace. In fact, that is their excuse for why this is better -- initial prices will be lower. See how clever they are?

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    :T:R:A:N:S:
  11. Re:Right not to void warranty by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Informative

    You can still repair anything you want, and you can pay anyone you want to repair your device, you just can't expect the company to warranty your device afterwards.

    Wrong. See the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.

    Manufacturers can only refuse to honor warranties if they can prove that your repair is what caused the problem.

  12. Perhaps not all is lost by Scarred+Intellect · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Though I HATE Wired, they have this to say:

    Last Friday [Oct 28, 2016], a new exemption to the decades-old law known as the Digital Millennium Copyright Act quietly kicked in, carving out protections for Americans to hack their own devices without fear that the DMCA’s ban on circumventing protections on copyrighted systems would allow manufacturers to sue them. One exemption, crucially, will allow new forms of security research on those consumer devices. Another allows for the digital repair of vehicles.

    TFA

  13. Bypass them by antigravity · · Score: 2

    Looks like more and more issues (Medical insurance, Right to repair, ) should be brought forward in the form of constitutional amendments. Power to the people!

  14. Re:Unfortunate by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

    This is not about smartphones and computers, although right-to-repair would benefit every owner of these devices. It's a battle going on in every farm state over being able to repair farm equipment.

  15. Re:Min 5 year warranty required by KalvinB · · Score: 2

    That works out great unless the all the companies that supply the product are conspiring together as is the case with farm equipment.

    A big part of the issue is that farm equipment has become so expensive and so complicated that to make it affordable they prevent users from servicing the equipment to recoup costs in repairs. It's the printer and ink way of doing business. Farmers don't really own the equipment. They're leasing it. And while you can do your own repairs on a leased vehicle, it's generally a bad idea. And when the vehicle costs millions of dollars, it's a really bad idea.

    Sure, you can buy an older tractor. But the cost of food is so low that you won't be able to grow or harvest enough with your fix it yourself tractor to make a living.

  16. Re:Small change will fix it by dryeo · · Score: 2

    Rights are a very human concept. In reality, you have the rights you take and can defend, and that is the law of nature. It's a dog-eat-dog world and survival of the fittest, and the universe owes you nothing. Your right to life extends only as far as your ability to defend your life. If you are prey it's because you are not strong enough to be predator.

    While you're right on one level, on another level you're wrong.
    People are a social animal and we can act as a group and defend each others rights. As a group, our right to life actually extends as far as the group has the ability to defend members of the groups life. Other rights are similar, if the group decides that freedom of speech should be defended, the group can defend the individuals right to speech. Of course there are still conflicts such as this article where the right to profit is up against property rights

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  17. Re:Unfortunate by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

    This is not about smartphones and computers, although right-to-repair would benefit every owner of these devices. It's a battle going on in every farm state over being able to repair farm equipment.

    The problem is, the bill won't be crafted finely-enough to place a distinction between classes of devices, such as cellphones, which just CAN'T be repaired by most people with commonly-available and relatively inexpensive tools (who wants to buy an SMT rework station to replace that BGA-packaged SoC?), and a John Deere tractor, which can.

    This will result in a bunch of idiots suing Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc. for a DECADE to try and force them to publish Service Manuals and provide "Spare Parts" for the (still unrepairable for most people, no matter what the law says) smartphones and other asininely-complicated embedded products, and to no real eventual outcome other than making some lawyers rich(er).

    Believe me when I say that I agree that, what John Deere and other farm equipment companies is as dickish as it gets; but there really IS a vast-difference between repairing a tractor with a 10 mm Socket Wrench, and repairing a smartphone with a bad Flash chip. Yes, fundamentally, they are both "repairs"; but that is about ALL they have in common.

  18. Re:No, don't blame Deere or the electronics indust by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A couple of years ago I undertook to read the complete output of the science fiction writer H. Beam Piper, who died in 1964. For most of his career he was a bottom-of-the-pack pro-writer, managing to get published regularly but never quite making enough to quit his job as a laborer in the Altoona PA railroad yards.

    That's because for the most of his career he was a technically mediocre writer. His stories, taken on their own, were adequate for the most part. But if you look at his stories as a body, they're quite spectacular, envisioning a consistent history stretching thirty thousand years into the future (and some direction laterally if you count his "paratime" stories).

    We take this kind of "world building" for granted in the post-LotR era; many aspiring writers start by creating elaborate historical backstories. What set Piper apart from these naval-gazing wannabes is that his future history is built around a single, central idea: nothing ever works for long. Sooner or later some people stop doing the things that system needs to be done because they've forgot why it should be done; or other people figure out ways to game the system; or both.

    His stories always end on a happy, hopeful note, but if you fit it into the timeline with the next story it turns out that everything must have gone to hell in the end.

    In many ways what we are seeing looks like the Piperian historical senescence of American small-r republicanism. Some people have stopped doing some of the things the system needs (informing themselves and dealing with opposing viewpoints). Others have figured out how to game the system (buying politicians without legally appearing to do so; flooding the mediasphere with bullshit).

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