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Oculus CTO John Carmack Is Suing ZeniMax For $22.5 Million (techcrunch.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: The feud between Oculus and ZeniMax Media is opening up once again, this time with the CTO of Oculus, John Carmack, suing his former employer for earnings that he claims are still owed to him. The suit is largely unrelated to the $6 billion trade secrets suit which ended last month with a $500 million judgment against Oculus. Instead, Carmack is suing ZeniMax Media for $22.5 million that he says has not been paid to him for the 2009 sale of his game studio, id Software, known for such pioneering video game classics as Doom and Quake. The lawsuit reveals that ZeniMax Media paid $150 million for the game studio. The document details that Carmack was set to earn $45 million from the id acquisition. In 2011, Carmack converted half of that note into a half-million shares of ZeniMax common stock, but has yet to receive the other half of his earnings in cash or common stock from the company, despite formal requests being made. The lawsuit was reported first by Dallas News.

58 comments

  1. A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought Carmack was supposed to be smart. He gave away his company for peanuts.

    1. Re:A paltry $150 million? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Be fair, he only invented the 3d shooter. Not like he wrote 'minecruft'.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:A paltry $150 million? by frovingslosh · · Score: 0

      He wrote a 3d shooter. He certainly didn't invent the 3D shooter. There were other, better, richer, shooters out there when his first shooter came out. What he did bring to the table was a shareware shooter (shareware for the first part anyway) and a system where others could build additional levels for his products.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    3. Re:A paltry $150 million? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      'Stellar 7'? Seriously what? Name them?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Wraithlyn · · Score: 1

      OK I'll bite.

      What "better, richer, shooters" were on the scene when Wolfenstein 3D first came out?

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
    5. Re:A paltry $150 million? by SCPaPaJoe · · Score: 1

      Second that. My first exposure to ID was Wolfenstein 3D. What came before? Wizardry? Before you jump all over me, I know Wolf 3D wasn't "3D", but I remember it blew me away with the first person point of view.

    6. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MIDI Maze was from 1987, and it has all the elements of a first-person shooter.

      Carmack's original first-person shooter Catacomb 3-D didn't come out until 1991.

    7. Re:A paltry $150 million? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      If 'Stellar 7' qualified as pre wolf3d 3d shooter, then so did 'Battlezone'.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    8. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not difficult to argue that he invented the "modern" 3d shooter because Wolf3D is more similar to every 3d shooter that followed than the earliest 3d shooters were to wolf3d. You're also dead wrong about there being better and richer shooters when Wolf3D came out. You'd also be wrong to suggest there was a richer or better shooter available when Doom was released. Finally, you'd definitely be wrong to suggest there was a richer or better shooter available when Quake was released. id absolutely dominated and totally redefined the 3d shooter genre during the period from 1990-1995. From a gameplay perspective, they were finally dethroned in 1998 when Half Life came out but momentarily reclaimed the multiplayer crown when quake3arena came out. Similarly, from an engine perspective, the unreal engine was able to dethrone id's engines (and their offshoots) for a brief period before quake3arena came out. Other than that, Carmack's engines are still arguably the best...to this very day.

    9. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Faceball 2000 was for a mainstream console and had multiplayer support (Gameboy link cable). It came out a year before Wolf 3D.

    10. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ken's Labyrinth

    11. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ken's Labyrinth came out a year after Wolfenstein 3D... and 2 years after Catacomb 3D...

    12. Re:A paltry $150 million? by frovingslosh · · Score: 4, Informative

      Quoting from Wikipedia (which is well known for never being wrong): "Ultima Underworld has been cited as the first role-playing game to feature first-person action in a 3D environment, and it introduced technological innovations such as allowing the player to look up and down.". I remembering seeing it just before I saw Wolfenstein, and it was much richer. In addition to being able to look up and down, the playing surface wasn't all on the same level, you could step up or down (I don't think that paths could actually cross over each other, although I'm not certain of that), and walls were not always of straight unit lengths, there were curved walls and other refinements that made Wolfenstein look crude. Of course, it was a commercial game and Wolfenstein was shareware (for the first part) so Wolfenstein got lots more play and attention.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    13. Re:A paltry $150 million? by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      Maybe, I overstated. Ultima was all of that, but maybe it was the only one.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    14. Re:A paltry $150 million? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Ah Stellar 7, that game I really really wanted to get into, but ended up getting bored after the first couple levels.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    15. Re:A paltry $150 million? by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      If 'Stellar 7' qualified as pre wolf3d 3d shooter, then so did 'Battlezone'.

      Hey! You're forgetting Duck Hunt!

    16. Re:A paltry $150 million? by puddingebola · · Score: 1

      My father was a miner for 34 years, and he suffered from both minecruft and black lung.

    17. Re:A paltry $150 million? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It was pretty cool eye candy in it's day. But yeah, Battlezone ++

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    18. Re:A paltry $150 million? by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      id absolutely dominated and totally redefined the 3d shooter genre during the period from 1990-1995.

      Maybe on the PC, but I always liked Marathon the best. There was a reason MS bought Bungie to make Halo.

    19. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      ROFL. Modern first-person shooters before Wolf3D? I don't think so.

      You are standing in an open field west of a small house.
      Visible through the window of the house is a troll, bathed in
      the sickly green light of a VT100 terminal. The troll looks up
      from his keyboard and glares at you.
       
      There is a mailbox here.
       
      >OPEN MAILBOX
      Opening the mailbox reveals a rocket launcher.
       
      Suddenly the front door of the house flies open with a bang.
      The troll stomps out of the house indignantly.
       
      >GET ROCKET LAUNCHER
      Taken.
       
      The troll roars! Brandishing his spiked club, the heavily-armored beast charges.
       
      >FIRE ROCKET LAUNCHER
      What do you want to fire the rocket launcher at?
       
      >TROLL
      Who do you want to troll?
       
      >FIRE ROCKET LAUNCHER AT TROLL
      You miss.
       
      The troll swings and connects for 3 damage.
      You have 97 health points and 14 rockets.

    20. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh really? what was better than doom at the time? ill wait.

    21. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Wraithlyn · · Score: 1

      Ultima? WTF are you even talking about?

      Early 90's Ultima (eg VI and VII) are 2D tile-based RPGs. While great games, they are neither first-person nor shooters.

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
    22. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They all had first-person dungeon views, at least up until VI, but there was no "shooting."

    23. Re:A paltry $150 million? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Akalabeth (Ultima -1) had 3d views, on Apple ][s. It took one keystroke of input per frame. You could even shoot arrows IIRC. It has been a while.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    24. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except it ripped off Ultima Underworld, and no id did not invent texture mapping.

    25. Re:A paltry $150 million? by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      Ultima Underworld

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    26. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure Eye of the beholder 2 came out before that and had an identical engine

    27. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. In EoB like in zillion other games before that the movement is discrete: you move one tile at a time and rotate 90 degrees.

    28. Re: A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some shooters kept your 1st person perspective view locked to the centre of each grid square and only did rotations of 90 degrees and movement one square forwards.

    29. Re:A paltry $150 million? by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      Except ultima underworld is not shooter?

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    30. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe Wing Commander if that counts

    31. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you were talking shit and got caught.

    32. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except it ripped off Ultima Underworld, and no id did not invent texture mapping.

      Rip off? Didn't Ultima come out in late March 1992 and Wolfstein 3D in May the same year? Not even today a company easily copies another and markets it in one and a half to two months, let alone back in the 90's.

      Oh, and one was a RPG the other a shooter, so yeah, ID did create the first person shooter genre and carried the flag for a very long time as well (they basically defined the whole genre that is still set to this day).

    33. Re:A paltry $150 million? by Wraithlyn · · Score: 1

      Alright fair enough, that is very impressive 3D for the time. BUT:

      - It ain't a shooter
      - It had much higher system requirements (Wolf3D's engine was a true breakthrough in terms of performance)
      - It came out at pretty much the same time as Wolf3D (two months earlier)

      Carmack deserves his accolades (and not "for bringing Shareware to the table"). After Wolf3D he went on to do Doom and Quake. He was (easily) the most accomplished graphics-engine programmer of the 90's.

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
  2. wah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So if they just decide not to pay for the company doesn't that make it his company again? I would be surprised if there isn't language to that effect in the contract.

    Maybe they are looking to offload some losses onto him?

    1. Re:wah? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      There are centuries of legal precedent of what to do with a contract if one party fails to hold up his end of the deal, usually property reverts ownership and damages may be possible. Often contracts have clauses that permit additional fines on top of the reverting of the property in question. It might be possible for Carmack to keep the $22.5m and his company and take ZeniMax to court for additional fines. But more than likely ZeniMax wouldn't have signed such a contract, and pursuing the failure to pay is the best option for Carmack.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    2. Re:wah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is that and it could be possible he just wants the money and not the company anymore and wants nothing to do with it.

  3. Id by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They purchased John's id - now they're about to actually SEE it.

  4. Zenimax by kamapuaa · · Score: 0

    Wow - so they proved in court that Carmack was involved in stealing trade secrets worth $500 million, and he still expects to be promptly paid?

    If I was convicted in court of stealing from a company, I wouldn't expect a paycheck. I guess that's one more way the rich executives are different from the rest of us.

    --
    Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    1. Re:Zenimax by dstyle5 · · Score: 2

      If I recall correctly, he personally wasn't found guilty of anything. It was other execs and Oculus itself. Even if he was found guilty how would that negate the sale iD to Zenimax? This just seems like Zenimax doing the same thing Activision pulled with ex Infinity Ward execs and employees, using their size/lawyers to avoid paying people money they are owed for as long as they can.

    2. Re:Zenimax by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Wow - so they proved in court that Carmack was involved in stealing trade secrets worth $500 million, and he still expects to be promptly paid?

      If I was convicted in court of stealing from a company, I wouldn't expect a paycheck. I guess that's one more way the rich executives are different from the rest of us.

      It's a separate action. He left, they owed him money and he wants what they agreed to pay. They can argue they shouldn't have to, or that any award should be used to offset any money he owes them; but if they owe hm the money he should get paid.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    3. Re:Zenimax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found Mark Zuckerberg.

    4. Re:Zenimax by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      He's pretty damn rich as it is.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  5. Would you pay $3B for Hydrox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course not. "But, but, Wolfenstein 3D! And Doom! And Doom 2!" is irrelevant.

    Not that I'm not a fan of Carmack getting what he's owed, if this suit pans out, of course.

  6. Were they common shares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If so, they can just be voted to become worthless. Every company I've worked for since 1988 has done that so common shareholders, like employees with stock options, got nothing.

    1. Re: Were they common shares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. You always get nothing for common shares.

  7. Smart people do dumb things.... by NimbleSquirrel · · Score: 2

    Smart people do dumb things, especially when they think they know better than things like the law. I do think that John Carmack has done some really dumb things even though so many people are putting him on a pedestal and calling him a genius. Sure he knows code and he founded a successful business, but that doesn't automatically translate into him being smart at everything.

    As I understand, Zenimax were originally going to sue Carmack for breach of his employment contract as part of the Oculus lawsuit, but this was left out. The Oculus lawsuit did establish a few key facts: Carmack did copy information before he left Zenimax, he did deliberately destroy evidence after Zeinmax filed the lawsuit, and he lied on an affidavit denying he wiped evidence.

    While Zenimax weren't able to convince the jury of all their claims, it was established that something was taken by Carmack. Ultimately, Carmack wasn't directly on trial there, merely whether Oculus had clear benefit from his actions.

    I have no doubt that Zenimax will counter-sue for breach of contract, theft of intellectual property and breach of NDA (among other things). Likely they will argue that Carmack's breach of employment contract is tied to his final contract payment and that damage from his actions equal or exceed the $22.5 million they would have owed him.

    Carmack says that Zenimax's refusal to pay is based on 'sour grapes', but I think Carmack's lawsuit is being filed based on 'sour grapes' too. I do recall him making a rant about the independent forensics after Oculus lost the case. Now I believe that this latest lawsuit is another dumb thing being done by a smart person.

    He is kicking a legal hornet's nest, especially when Zenimax's lawyers have plenty of information already gained from the Oculus lawsuit. They will know exactly what to go for when they file for discovery in this case.

    1. Re:Smart people do dumb things.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's sour grapes if toure owed 22 million and haven't been paid in 9 months after askin repeatedly. You here to suck zenimax dick? Zenimax is a skit corp and you are assuming that what they ALLEGGED is true even though the jury didn't. Why don't you let carjack be carjack and you can go back to masturbating squirrels or whatever it is you do to contribute to society.

    2. Re:Smart people do dumb things.... by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      Smart people do dumb things, especially when they think they know better than things like the law. I do think that John Carmack has done some really dumb things even though so many people are putting him on a pedestal and calling him a genius. Sure he knows code and he founded a successful business, but that doesn't automatically translate into him being smart at everything.

      Correct. Solving complex mathematics and software engineering problems is a completely different skill set than dealing with irrational people in business systems. For those that are familiar with MBTI, Carmack is probably either INTJ or INTP whereas the people that negotiate business deals and tend to rise into top leadership are ENTJ's. These two types of people operate completely differently and use tactics that are foreign concepts to each other. In order to deal with this dynamic, it requires one to learn the other's thought process and be able to function like them effectively which is a very rare thing. Carmack is kind of like Nikola Tesla. No doubt about it, both absolutely brilliant. But I'm sure a clever ENTJ could potentially send them home crying. This whole ZeniMax buying Id Software was probably the brain child of some ENTJ's. Short term financial gain at the expense of destroying a legendary game studio that brought you the FPS genre.

      The problem with ENTJ's is they tend to insist they need to be in the driver's seat on everything even if they are completely incompetent. They tend to be narcissists, obsessed with being adored and revered. They will never admit they are wrong ever about anything. They tend to value their reputation even if it is based on nothing of substance and they will manipulate systems to favor these types of rules. A word to the wise INTJ/INTP, plenty of you here on Slashdot, use your exceptional skills for decomposition to reverse the ENTJ's mind and then use that against them. For INTJ, use your master strategic thinking in this context and you will send ENTJ home packing, pissed off sideways and frustrated. I do it all the time when I deal with these clowns. It's a lot of fun too.

      --
      We'll make great pets
  8. MOD PARENT UP by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    I have no mod points, but that had me chuckling for ages.

    I also love the implication that the text adventure has a feature where you can troll.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      I was hoping for a "Troll" mod, but the thread was already pretty much dead by the time I saw it. :(

  9. +5 Troll by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

    As the man says, this is one of those rare comments that deserves a +5 Troll moderation. Kudos :)

    --
    Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
  10. MBTI by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

    MBTI is not empirical and has some extremely significant flaws. It's not even good pseudoscience.

    --
    Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    1. Re:MBTI by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      MBTI is not empirical and has some extremely significant flaws. It's not even good pseudoscience.

      You should get a psychology degree and come back when you're more educated. First of all, I don't think anyone ever claimed that personality profiling like DISC and MBTI are 100% perfect. It's not a panacea. However, I challenge you to provide an alternative that is better. Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it's useless. Even Freudian psychology involving the Ego, ID and Super ID is flawed, more flawed than MBTI and DISC. There is much more research to be done and better models to create. We are breaking new ground every day in psychology and cognitive science.

      Having said that, MBTI described my default tendencies and thoughts to a level of accuracy around 99%. I was absolutely astonished at how accurate it was. Many friends and colleagues have also expressed this to me. Many corporations use these psychometric tests to evaluate employees with a high degree of accuracy.

      In summary, these models have an incredible amount of utility. One thing you need to understand is that these models will describe your "auto pilot" behavior that is if you're not 100% consciously engaged in decision making, you will most likely behave the way they describe. If you develop the capacity for meta thinking or more conscious rational decision making, you can of course override these and choose something entirely different. That is an entirely different mental discipline than solving math problems and computer programming. Trust me I know from personal experience.

      Carmack's behavior in this situation seems to be a classic introvert default decision making process. To avoid doing this, you must think outside of yourself if that makes any sense. You have to attempt to view the world from someone else's point of view that is processing the world in an entirely different way. Trust me, these tools have helped me be WAY more successful in dealing with people. Leaps and bounds improvements in outcomes of negotiation and social situations.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    2. Re:MBTI by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      Introverts tend to get bullied and taken advantage of by certain extroverted types because they see it as weakness to be exploited. They have a lot of success at doing it. If you want to be resilient, you have to learn to defend yourself. This is akin to learning fighting styles to be resilient on the metaphorical street...

      --
      We'll make great pets
    3. Re: MBTI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you've just had a cheap revelation and you're mentally masturbating to the idea that you know something others do not. It's common among kooks and conspiracy theorists. Read the Wikipedia page you moron. It does link to better qualitative measures. Saying there is nothing better is an obvious indication that you haven't bothered to investigate the subject.