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US Lawmakers Propose Minimum Seat Sizes For Airlines (consumerist.com)

The size of each passenger's seat on an airplane -- as well as the distance between rows of seats -- should be standardized, according to legislation proposed by two American lawmakers. Slashdot reader AmiMoJo quotes Consumerist: The text of the bill does not specify any dimensions for seat widths or legroom. Rather, if the legislation is passed, the particulars would be left up to the FAA to sort out... Though seat size may vary from airline to airline, Cohen notes that the average distance between rows of seats has dropped from 35 inches before airline deregulation in the 1970s, to around 31 inches today. Your backside is getting the squeeze, as well, as the average width of an airline seat has also shrunk from 18 inches to about 16.5 inches.

28 of 266 comments (clear)

  1. About time! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's about time! I don't fit in a standard airline seat, so currently have 3 options - Pay for business class, have an uncomfortable flight for me and seat neighbours, or don't fly. In recent years I've been taking option 3 more and more often.

    I'm not particularly fat, I'm just 6'6 and broad shouldered. With each generation getting bigger than their parents it doesn't make sense to be reducing seat sizes year on year.

    1. Re:About time! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So why should short people subsidize you? If you need extra room, then pay for it yourself. Many airlines already offer "economy plus", so you already have that option. Why should that option be forced on everyone?

      Making every seat fit someone that is 6'6" will mean fewer people will fit on the plane, wasting fuel, and jacking up the ticket prices for everyone.

    2. Re:About time! by Solandri · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem isn't space. The problem is people unwilling to pay extra for extra space. The small percentage of the population which falls outside size norms want to pass laws requiring that they be given enough space at the same price as everyone else. As a result, just like the ADA individuals who got UC Berkeley's online course videos pulled off the web, larger people are going to get lower priced seats for regular-sized and smaller people eliminated.

      Most airlines now have an economy+ section, with bigger seat pitch and sometimes wider seats. It only costs about 10%-20% more than a regular seat, so you're not stuck paying business class fares. I'm sorry you'll have to pay a bit more than me to fly, but what gives you the right to deny a smaller person lower prices for a smaller seat?

      Legislation requiring slightly larger seats and slightly higher prices (economy+) be available on all flights is fine. Legislation outlawing "smaller" seats which fit the vast majority of passengers is stupid.

    3. Re:About time! by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      My last flight was in 2010. I replaced air travel by overnight train travel. It's awesome! Benefits all around.

      - I have to sleep anyway.
      - I have to get up at 7, not at 4.
      - No ass groping and penis pic perverts
      - A fucking HUGE room compared to the cramped ... well, let's be generous and call it seat, next stage would probably be more aptly called a perch. With my own toilet and washing place to use for as long or short as I please without some asshat knocking at the door.
      - Better food

      And it's not even more expensive. Yes, it takes 10 hours instead of 2. SO WHAT? I get to sleep those 10 hours. Instead of getting maybe 4 hours of sleep, then hurrying to the airport, wrestling with airport security who is just as awake as I am, squeezing myself into a seat, getting my stuff all wrinkled and fucked up and be sleep deprived at my destination, I have a full night sleep, with my gear being in pristine condition after I had a through morning toilet.

      Fuck planes, trains is where my money is!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:About time! by epyT-R · · Score: 2

      Bigger? You mean fatter? Perhaps you're in shape and are just large, which is understandable, but we should not accommodate the grotesque obesity.

    5. Re:About time! by WarJolt · · Score: 2

      I'm not 6'5", but I will never get on a plane again without knowing the model and seat configuration. I've been on a trip where the way there I had plenty of room. On the way back I felt like I was molesting this poor woman next me because my shoulders were wider than the seats.

      Lawmakers are useless. Vote with your ass.

    6. Re:About time! by blincoln · · Score: 2

      The small percentage of the population which falls outside size norms want to pass laws requiring that they be given enough space at the same price as everyone else.

      I'm well within "normal" size - 5'10", 150-160 pounds depending on the season and what kind of exercise I've been doing. I wear a jacket with 36" shoulders, and my trousers have a 31" waist.

      Most of the major US airlines have seats that just barely fit me. I have flown on one (can't remember which offhand) where my hip bone was pressing into the padding on both sides of the seat simultaneously. If my hips had been any wider, I would literally have not fit in the seat.

      This isn't about edge-cases. This is about airlines trying to provide accommodations that are inadequate for something like half of the population.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    7. Re: About time! by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Starting a statement/question with 'so' is a tell for cognitive dissonance.

      That's rubbish and you know it. So why did you post it?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re:About time! by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      We over here in Europe don't give a fuck what your hicksville GOP politicians kill. Yes, I do enjoy high speed rail.

      And yes, internet is available. At reasonable speed, never bothered to make a speed test, it's fast enough for pretty much anything I wanted to do.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:About time! by zippthorne · · Score: 2

      Actually the problem is that people aren't able to compare airlines based on space. You can sort by price, departure time, number of stops, airline, connection time, total time, arrival time, but I've not seen a flight booking site offer filters based on amenities or comfort metrics of any kind.

      In the absence of that information, people are going to be making decisions without consideration of those things and so the airlines will race to reduce their costs.

      This market failure is not caused by a lack of regulation of seat size, but by a lack of important information. There is apparently a desparate need for a new flight booking service to provide that information.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  2. Alternative headline... by c · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "US Lawmakers Solicit Campaign Donations From Airlines"

    It's not going to pass. There'll be a storm of lobbying activity and the proposal will quietly die at the bottom of a drawer somewhere...

    --
    Log in or piss off.
    1. Re:Alternative headline... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "US Lawmakers Solicit Campaign Donations From Airlines"

      It's not going to pass. There'll be a storm of lobbying activity and the proposal will quietly die at the bottom of a drawer somewhere...

      Yep.

      Probably better to just require full disclosure of seat size. That way smaller people could buy smaller seats, and larger people larger ones.

      Requiring a fixed size is just going to make things less efficient and fundamentally more expensive.

    2. Re:Alternative headline... by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 2

      Eh, you might be surprised. There's a lot of people who feel VERY vocal about the discomforts of flying. After all, the Passenger's Bill of Rights that put a bunch of previous restrictions passed easily. I suspect that issues like this are one of the ones that's nonpartisan enough for it to get lots of support, because congresscritters like doing popular stuff such as this which they can point to at election time (especially when it distracts people from the less visible crap that gets them bigger donations).

      Furthermore, not all the airlines have seats that small, and the ones who don't aren't going to care if it hurts their competitors and not them.

    3. Re:Alternative headline... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      Those fatties are NOT Republicans.

      Uh ... yes they are.

      The ten states with the highest obesity rates, and who they voted for in 2016:

      Louisiana - Trump
      Alabama - Trump
      Mississippi - Trump
      West Virginia - Trump
      Kentucky - Trump
      Arkansas - Trump
      Kansas - Trump
      Oklahoma - Trump
      Tennessee - Trump
      Missouri - Trump

      And here are the states with the lowest rates of obesity:

      Colorado - Hillary
      DC - Hillary
      Hawaii - Hillary
      Montana - Trump
      California - Hillary
      Massachusetts - Hillary
      Utah - Trump
      New York - Hillary
      Vermont - Hillary
      Connecticut - Hillary

  3. Cost by KermodeBear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These days I avoid flying if I can. I'd rather drive 10 hours then put up with lines in security, getting molested by the TSA, sitting in a tiny seat in a tin can with a dozen screaming babies and sneezing people...

    But, those small seats are why some people can afford to fly. I'd like larger seats, sure - but I'd rather see that solved by the airlines instead of the government sticking their nose into the market yet again.

    Imagine this:

    Enjoy our spacious, comfortable seats on your flight with a full two feet of leg room. With no children under thirteen, you can be assured that your flight will be completed in peace. We still serve complimentary drinks and snacks and offer free pillows, so you'll be refreshed when you land. Why suffer? Fly NottaCrap Airline for only $100 more. Enjoy the experience. (tm)

    They'd have people stampeding to get tickets.

    --
    Love sees no species.
    1. Re:Cost by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

      For two feet, fly business class. But who needs this? They only can sell that at all because economy became so crappy.

      Just raise the standard again. By those two inces in width, by those two inches in legroom. Give everyone a decent sandwich.

      I'm NOT going to pay extra if an airline wants to divide pasengers further into the poor cattle and the "luxury" of "economy plus" where in the end they charge you $50 for that sandwich and a bag with a towel and a sleeping mask, but I'll pick an airline that offers better basic service if the difference is no more than say, $100.

      --
      bickerdyke
    2. Re:Cost by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      Presumably because company policy (they, after all, are paying for the seat) requires him to take cheapest seat available, and doesn't give him the option to pay for his own upgrade. That's usually how it works.

    3. Re:Cost by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      You just (mostly) described first class.

      Actually, what you really described is a private jet.

      TANSTAAFL.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:Cost by quantaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These days I avoid flying if I can. I'd rather drive 10 hours then put up with lines in security, getting molested by the TSA, sitting in a tiny seat in a tin can with a dozen screaming babies and sneezing people...

      But, those small seats are why some people can afford to fly. I'd like larger seats, sure - but I'd rather see that solved by the airlines instead of the government sticking their nose into the market yet again.

      Imagine this:

      Enjoy our spacious, comfortable seats on your flight with a full two feet of leg room. With no children under thirteen, you can be assured that your flight will be completed in peace. We still serve complimentary drinks and snacks and offer free pillows, so you'll be refreshed when you land. Why suffer? Fly NottaCrap Airline for only $100 more. Enjoy the experience. (tm)

      They'd have people stampeding to get tickets.

      If you're presented with two options for a flight, and one ticket costs $20 less, then you're probably going to buy that ticket.

      However, if you got to actually sit in both seats first, and realized that one seat was a little bigger and more comfortable, you might be willing to spend the extra $20.

      The problem is that even if you really care about the size and comfort of your airplane seat it's really tough to judge it when you buy the ticket, so the airline has a strong incentive to reduce the price of the ticket by shrinking the seat and using cheaper materials.

      I think it's quite possible that consumers never wanted the trade-off of smaller seats for cheaper prices, and if we could have properly evaluated seats at the time of purchase they would have gotten bigger instead.

      If the market forces governing airplane seats are broken then it's exactly the kind of scenario where government should step in and regulate.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    5. Re: Cost by DaHat · · Score: 2

      Good luck with that.

      Recently I had a lengthy international trip which I was dreading, so much so that I read our travel policy word for word to see what options there might be for me, a man of 6'5". The policy allows purchasing only the cheapest coach/cattle seats... Even fot executives.

      In the end, it was easier for me to spend $2000 of my own money for a second seat so I would have sufficient leg room (economy plus doesnt do it, and still less than a business class ticket).

      Usually I drive, everywhere because of the love I have fot my knees and hatred of thr airlines, but for this trip driving 6500 miles over thr ocean simply wasn't an option, thankfully me dropping the $2k was, though an expensive one.

      I can see such a law being far easier to pass than getting every company out there to have a more sensible travel policy with regards to their employees who have so.e height to them.

    6. Re:Cost by Greyfox · · Score: 2

      I say that too, but recently flew from Denver to Phoenix and back for less than it cost to park my car at the airport for the three days I was gone. The round trip ticket was neighborhood of $70. I was quite surprised at how comfortable the flight was, there was ample room for the couple of items I'd carried on and I cleared the TSA checkpoints with a minimum of fondling. I enjoy that drive, too, and have done it a couple of times, but I can't drive it for anywhere close to the cost of an airline ticket along that route, even with parking and the cost of a rental car at the far side factored in.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  4. Re:Why not let the market sort this out? by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

    Stop talking about the market. If the market was a real thing then different airlines would be shrinking seats to a different degree. Some airlines would be advertising 'our seats are bigger'. But as usual, every company moves in lock step with one another. There is no such thing as having the market sort it out, as is the case for most products and services.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  5. I guess you'll find out if you watch the movie by waspleg · · Score: 2

    theaters. Minus the age restriction and free snacks this is exactly what some of the big theater chains are doing to try to get people to come back to the movies.

    The AMC near me just ripped out all of their seats and put in leather recliners with enough leg room that people can walk by without you having to stand up (or so says the wife, I haven't been yet). Unfortunately they can't control the kids on their fucking phones and rude dumb fucks talking.

    I remember what it was like to go to the theater and actually be engaged by the movie and not the other assholes in the room. I feel bad for people too young to know what that magic is like.

  6. I refuse to fly by p51d007 · · Score: 2

    #1 reason is the (illegal) TSA treating everyone like a criminal...searching EVERYONE in the name of "safety" (giving up your rights as a citizen...in the name of security LMAO). #2, I remember when just 30+ years ago, it was still somewhat of a treat to get on an airliner. I even remember as a kid, anyone would walk right up to the gate of the airplane, to see someone depart or arrive. Heck, you even got REAL China, REAL stainless steel knives and forks. #3, flying today? Nothing more than cattle being transported from one location to the other. Rude people, rude staff at times, courtesty out the door. Wonder how long it will be, until public transit hand rails will come along, and everyone is made to stand during the flight. Gotta maximize the passenger load. Sorry...I'll just drive to where I need to go. Screw the airlines, TSA and all that other crap!

  7. information by Lehk228 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    instead of interfering on behalf of the gluttons and the expense of everyone else, why not just mandate that the purchase page disclose the dimensions of the seat.

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  8. Re:What I'm waiting for... by Greyfox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The last time I flew from Denver to Phoenix, the round trip ticket was around $70. I can't even get to the Colorado border without paying that much in gas alone. And if I had wanted to go to Hawaii, well, that would have been a significantly more difficult drive.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  9. More Seats = More Time to Evacuate by SCUBA+Instructor · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hi, Certification for emergency evacuation requires a test of real people evacuating in less than a specified amount of time. These tests are done with all airline employees as passengers, all physically fit, all alert, all expecting the drill to occur, and with no luggage. More seats means more less-physically fit passengers, clueless and sleepy passengers, kids, handicapped pax, and lots and lots of luggage and obstructions. Make safety the number 1 reason for seat minimums.

  10. cattle class... by sxpert · · Score: 2

    is this law proposition coming from lawmakers that were recently forced to fly cattle class and didn't like it ?