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Walmart Unveils 'Store No. 8' Tech Incubator In Silicon Valley (bloomberg.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Wal-Mart Stores Inc. is creating a technology-startup incubator in Silicon Valley to identify changes that will reshape the retail experience, including virtual reality, autonomous vehicle and drone delivery and personalized shopping. The incubator will be called Store No. 8, a reference to a Wal-Mart location where the company experimented with new store layouts. Marc Lore, chief executive officer of Wal-Mart's e-commerce operations, announced the incubator Monday at the ShopTalk conference in Las Vegas. The world's biggest retailer has been overhauling its online team to better challenge Amazon.com Inc. with greater selection and lower prices. Lore founded Jet.com, which Wal-Mart purchased in September for about $3.3 billion in pursuit of Amazon in the e-commerce race. Lore said Wal-Mart has an advantage over "pure play" e-commerce companies because of its large network of stores that attract shoppers for such items as fresh food. The incubator will partner with startups, venture capitalists and academics to promote innovation in robotics, virtual and augmented reality, machine learning and artificial intelligence, according to Wal-Mart. The goal is to have a fast-moving, separate entity to identify emerging technologies that can be developed and used across Wal-Mart.

66 comments

  1. Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by TWX · · Score: 1

    Because I've shopped at the various brick-and-mortar stores, known people that have worked in the various brick-and-mortar stores, and basically I'm not going to shop at Walmart. They treat their employees badly, treat their suppliers badly and force quality down in the name of price, and as a result it's a shitshow going into their stores.

    I see no reason to reward Walmart with my business. I'm OK with being in the minority on this, but either way, I'll spend the extra dollar and not have that experience.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 2

      Me, I like the low prices.

      If you want to spend your extra dollar, maybe give it to a charity?

    2. Re: Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Walmart is basically a free circus. Extremely obese walking around in pajamas, traffic jams in every isle, and 1 cashier for every 30 people. What's not to like?

    3. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Walmart was shape-shifted by the likes of you and me.

      We want something for nothing and we don't give a real fuck about consequences.

      No, we only think of ourselves.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    4. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by MyrddinBach · · Score: 1

      Except that for most things you spend more when you buy at walmart because the quality is much lower. The Levi jeans you buy at walmart (or almost any other name brand product) is not the same as the levis you buy at say jc penny. They look the same but the quality is actually much lower and so they don't last as long. That's how they sell things cheaper than other stores. They get companies to make and sell them an inferior version of their product for less money. Go search for the article on the guy who said no to walmart. It explains it a lot more. I never buy anything from walmart either because of this and because of how shitty they treat not only their employees.

    5. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      so you're saying they are like Amazon?

    6. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon treats its warehouse employees like cattle, and (according to the NYT article) even the salaried employees are ridiculously overworked and intentionally kept off balance so they can never coast. Are you going to boycott them too?

    7. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      By using US tech to find cheaper production lines in Indonesia, Laos rather than staying with the rising costs in China?

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    8. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by lucm · · Score: 2

      Ok let's say you buy a pair of jeans. Levis "Signature" is $17 at Walmart, cheapest Levis at JC Penney is $46 (I checked). So you can get through 3 pairs of Walmart jeans before you get to the JC Penney price. And while the Walmart ones are lower quality, they're still jeans, they do the job.

      And when it's time to buy more, the price at Walmart will have gone down to $15.75 or something like that while it will be like $53 at JC Penney.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    9. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Me, I like the low prices.

      If you want to spend your extra dollar, maybe give it to a charity?

      Even if you aren't after low prices, GP's argument, while a popular sentiment, is also false.

      http://www.pbs.org/newshour/ma...

      TL;DR: Walmart (and other big box retailers) actually do pay higher wages to the line workers than typical mom and pop stores. Furthermore, unlike mom and pop shops, there are actually opportunities for promotion at a walmart. A typical general manager at walmart sits in the $100k/year range, and the lower level store managers aren't much lower. At a mom and pop retailer however, you'd be lucky if you made it anywhere past being a cashier or stocking shelves. Why? Because most family owned businesses typically assign valuable positions only to family members.

      As for GP's comment about Walmart treating suppliers bad, without knowing the specifics, I have a feeling that GP is talking about how Walmart has always lead the way in terms of making its supply chain more efficient, something that started with the barcode:

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/...

      And of course, remember how during the 90's, video games (especially PC games) came in boxes the size of a cereal box, but were mostly empty? Walmart alone changed that by establishing packaging requirements in order for a supplier to be allowed to put anything on their shelves. And yeah, you're damn right the supplier will hate it because they can't make their product bigger and more eye catching than their competitors, however in terms of being less environmentally wasteful, and ultimately reducing costs to the consumer, it totally made sense.

      Saving money isn't bad, and in many cases it means you're being more efficient and more practical.

    10. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by cb88 · · Score: 1

      $39 online... at JCP.... stores like that work of sales and coupons so you can probably get them for the same price as Walmart if you watch. Annoying but yeah.. there are pros and cons. And frankly I don't support JCPenny's recent liberal agenda... JCP used to be the Chik-Fil-A of department stores... until Mr Penny died years ago, and shareholders turned it into a race for the buck instead of actually standing for something.

      You can do more business in 5 or 6 days with a visionary and all around good guy at the the wheel... rather than "businessmen" half intent on ramming the company into the ground.

    11. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by tomhath · · Score: 1

      Because I've shopped at the various brick-and-mortar stores, known people that have worked in the various brick-and-mortar stores

      Do you really believe that the people who work a Amazon have it any better than the people who work at Walmart?

    12. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is actually funny, because Levis are one of the exact items I buy at JCPenny specifically for the stated reason. I find if I buy a pair of Levis at Walmart or Target, they'll last about 3 months before needing replaced. Buy them at JCPenny and they last about 18 months. For record, I typically only have like two or three pairs of pants that I wear, so they wear out quickly.

      But anyway, costing 3 times as much at JCPenny, they still come out to half the price.

    13. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you can go to ross and buy the JC penny jeans at the wal-mart prices and get the satisfaction of not giving your money to a company that actively works to fuck over peon-americans.

    14. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol you're probably a brainwashed wal-mart employee but ok.
      Wal-mart did not single handedly create the trend to shrink packaging sizes they did however pressure the supply chain not "single handedly" despite the impression you might have gotten by their massive PR campaign to improve their image right around that time.

    15. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, because Amazon is owned by a liberal which = good.

    16. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      I've never had any kind of business relationship with Wal-Mart whatsoever, rather I just call bullshit when I see it. Besides, brainwashed is believing every urban myth you come across without question, including the one I debunked above.

    17. Re:Can they innovate into not being Walmart? by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Lol you're probably a brainwashed wal-mart employee but ok. Wal-mart did not single handedly create the trend to shrink packaging sizes they did however pressure the supply chain not "single handedly" despite the impression you might have gotten by their massive PR campaign to improve their image right around that time.

      ^^ In summary, LOL hurr durr.

  2. Walmart is a tech leader ... by perpenso · · Score: 4, Informative

    Before you laugh, some history ... Walmart is/was a tech leader, they pioneered digitizing and automating the supply chain (orders, payments, etc) and inventory management (what, where, etc) back in the 1970s. They were also mining "big data" back then (more what and where - hurricane warning in gulf, move pop tarts from midwest distribution centers to gulf stores). Opening their "big data" is how they got suppliers to buy into their digital supply chain. Suppliers got to see their product sale at national, regional and even store levels with 15min granularity. All the cash registers reported to a store's minicomputer which then connected by satellite to headquarters to report sales.

    1. Re:Walmart is a tech leader ... by turkeydance · · Score: 1

      agreed. Walmart will lead if it wants. it has the cash. it has the real estate. it has political power.

    2. Re:Walmart is a tech leader ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must hold Walmart stock to peddle that line.

      Tough to lead in the technology sector with second tier and lower recruits.

    3. Re:Walmart is a tech leader ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also its IS solutions reek of politics. They have had the same shitty search engine for over a decade at walmart.com. Try any query with two words and see what garbage comes back on the first page... You have to use google to find products you want. Jet.com may help, but they really need to kill walmart.com, it is useless. Not that A9 is much better, but they have improved some (usually the broken boosts and garbage only starts on the second results page). A9 is still garbage compared to any decent competitor like buy.com, newegg, etc... It is fascinating how they can't get some of the most basic IR concepts right.

    4. Re:Walmart is a tech leader ... by lucm · · Score: 2

      You must hold Walmart stock to peddle that line.

      Tough to lead in the technology sector with second tier and lower recruits.

      There's a revolving door between Walmart and Amazon. Top tier IT goes from here to there, because they're basically the only retailers with so much volume that they have challenges nobody else has. Granted, the lower rungs on the ladder are mostly visa workers (Walmart is the biggest recruiter of visa workers year after year) because there's no point in paying a premium for people who install MS-Office, but where it matters, it's top talent.

      I for one would love to work on IT projects at Walmart. Can you imagine the engineering challenges? We're not talking about digital goods, but real things with a real volume and weight that require space for storage and energy for shipping. Tons and tons of random crap, from batteries to lawn furniture and pepperoni. Fascinating.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    5. Re:Walmart is a tech leader ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must hold Walmart stock to peddle that line.

      Tough to lead in the technology sector with second tier and lower recruits.

      No AC. I've worked with Walmart IT people - they are extraordinarily intelligent and know their stuff. Usually when they came to us (the vendor), they knew what changed, how to exactly reproduce the issue, and I'd wager 1 of 3 times had a workaround in place already. There are some fascinating numbers out there for what happens within 1,2,4,8 hours of Walmart IT failing and how much money they lose per minute - that even posting as AC I can't repeat said numbers. Walmart cannot afford to have second-tier IT folks because it does not make good business sense to do so.

      Don't confuse Walmart IT with Walmart employees you may see on a day-to-day basis as a consumer. Completely different worlds.

  3. Your mom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My nut is incubating in your moms pussy

  4. "We" are forcing quality down ... by perpenso · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... force quality down in the name of price ...

    Technically that is we the consumers that are doing that. Offshoring, low quality, etc ... those are not CEO choices, those are consumer choices. When presented with two products, one domestically produced, higher quality and higher priced, and the other produced overseas, lower quality and lower priced, we the consumer overwhelmingly choose the lower priced. We reward the supplier that offshores and reduces quality. If we consumers showed a preference for local goods and/or higher quality goods that is what Walmart would stock the shelves with. They stock what sells, we decide what sells.

    1. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ. I have never seen any attempt to market products this way. When I go to the Apple store, they don't sell an iPhone made at Foxconn and an iPhone made in the US. It doesn't happen with any product.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ. I have never seen any attempt to market products this way. When I go to the Apple store, they don't sell an iPhone made at Foxconn and an iPhone made in the US. It doesn't happen with any product.

      We are talking about Walmart not Apple, a retailer not a supplier that happens to have a boutique retail store. I believe I can find US made goods like a MagLite flashlight, a Nalgene water bottle, a Leatherman multitool, a Lodge skillet, etc at Walmart.

      We are also talking about a current situation that is the result of consumer behavior that has been going on for 40 to 50 years. And now with online shopping it is easier to find US made goods than in recent years.

      If consumers wanted to demonstrate a preference for local products they have options. Such a trend would be recognized. That is why you find various "greener" products at the grocery store nowadays, consumers started voting with their dollars and stores responded.

    3. Re:"We" are forcing quality down ... by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Technically that is we the consumers that are doing that. Offshoring, low quality, etc ... those are not CEO choices, those are consumer choices.

      Call me cynical, but I keep going back to the MIB quote: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." Consumers as a mass of people don't make "choices." In big groups, we behave more like a herd. A stampeding herd of cows doesn't "choose" to run off a cliff, the collective is dumber than any individual. It's up to the ranchers to make decisions for the good of the cows.

      ... not that I expect CEOs to actually make decisions for the good of society unless they're forced to. Just that I really really really don't think consumers are capable of it.

    4. Re:"We" are forcing quality down ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      No, its up to "teachers" to tell consumers about the tragedy of the commons.

    5. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ. I have never seen any attempt to market products this way. When I go to the Apple store, they don't sell an iPhone made at Foxconn and an iPhone made in the US. It doesn't happen with any product.

      Furthermore, GP seems to imply that domestically produced and/or pricier goods are always superior, which is quite a false impression. Lean manufacturing is a real thing, and in a nutshell it means reducing the number of manual steps in production, which not only lowers cost (and therefore, price) but results in a more consistent, lower defect, and thus higher quality, product.

      If you know anything at all about engineering, you'd know this to be true.

      And as far as domestic vs foreign...a perfect example of where GP's implication is wrong is in the auto industry. Without a doubt, most American cars are of inferior quality compared to Japanese cars; something that consumer reports has shown time and time again.

    6. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      If consumers wanted to demonstrate a preference for local products they have options. Such a trend would be recognized. That is why you find various "greener" products at the grocery store nowadays, consumers started voting with their dollars and stores responded.

      By this, are you referring to organic produce? And by greener, are you referring to environmentalism?

      If so, you're basically being sold the scam of the century, and being suckered hook, line, and sinker. And in fact, stores like whole foods, which have picked up popularity as of late, are the grocery store scam of the century. The first giveaway should be the fact that they sell homeopathic medicine, but if you look at their ban list, it's basically nonsensical. For example, they ban monosodium-glutamate while allowing monopotassium-glutamate (contrary to popular belief, MSG is harmless at worst, and beneficial at best.) That store also sells a ton of junk food advertised as being healthy (i.e. blue sky sodas...it's natural, so it's good for you! Nevermind that it's loaded with sugar, cuz it's REAL sugar! And nevermind that cane sugar is no better or worse than HFCS.)

      You know what though? Walmart refuses to sell raw organic alfalfa sprouts due to their well known high risk for foodborn illness (and yes, many people have died from eating these when bought elsewhere,) meanwhile whole foods will happily sell them to you. But remember kids, MSG is bad even though nobody has ever gotten sick from it, and organic raw alfalfa sprouts are good because they're natural, and natural is always good for you. https://psychcentral.com/lib/t...

      Anyways I'm sure that somebody who disagrees with me is going to post a response that includes links from any one of naturalnews.com, mercola.com, foodbabe.com, foodrenegade.com, Dr. Oz, or some other well known quack source, but please don't bother because I consider clicking these kinds of links a total waste of time.

    7. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      What percentage of products are greenwashing and what percentage are effective and less troublesome for people and/or the environment I don't know. However that doesn't matter to my point, which is that people demonstrated a willingness to buy something using a metric other than the lowest price and manufacturers and retailers respond. It worked for "green". It could work for "domestic/local".

    8. Re:"We" are forcing quality down ... by Threni · · Score: 1

      Poor(er) people think that way. If you're rich, you have the luxury of getting what you want, and not having to have the cheaper stuff; of not having to choose between a good product or a good holiday/eating out more/clothing and feeding your kids. Poorer people don't have that choice. And it's not as if the elite/rich people are doing all they can to lift poor people out of poverty. I'd not blame "consumers" for trying to stretch their money as far as possible.

    9. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      That's the point I'm trying to get at. Don't expect me to buy a Samsung phone that I have used in the past and am familiar with, or an American phone made by 'Brand X' which may wear out in a year. Actually market a like for like product, one that is made in the US and one that is made somewhere else.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    10. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Walmart doesn't manufacture products. Walmart can't sell you an American made version of a Samsung TV if Samsung doesn't make them!

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    11. Re:"We" are forcing quality down ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Part of the tragedy of the tragedy of the commons is that awareness of the situation most often doesn't lead to a better outcome.

    12. Re:"We" are forcing quality down ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Poor(er) people think that way. If you're rich, you have the luxury of getting what you want, and not having to have the cheaper stuff; of not having to choose between a good product or a good holiday/eating out more/clothing and feeding your kids. Poorer people don't have that choice. And it's not as if the elite/rich people are doing all they can to lift poor people out of poverty. I'd not blame "consumers" for trying to stretch their money as far as possible.

      That the impoverished have a more valid reason does not change the fact that businesses that go the offshoring route are rewarded by consumers, that consumers drive offshoring process.

      Also this was largely driven by the middle class, as most things are. Keep in mind that this trend started long ago when it was far more likely for a HS educated person to find a job that offered a living wage.

    13. Re:"We" are forcing quality down ... by sodul · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure I agree with the, mostly accepted, idea that offshore == lower quality. The car analogy would be Toyota vs the american manufacturers. Toyota managed to build cars in Japan, at much, much higher quality than Detroy could and then sell them for cheaper. South Korea was a little behind Japan on quality but is pretty much on par now. Of course things are not 100% perfect with exploding phones and bad airbags but I would say the quality is still on par, if not better, than the western counterparts.
      China still has a problem of consistency with a lot of low quality, fakes and just plain rip off items, but they do build very high quality items nowadays. A lot of the price difference between 2 items, US vs offshore, is not always manufacturing cost. The offshore item will have a lower margin, little to no marketing cost, . For example I personally do not believe that the manufacturing cost of a MacBook Pro would have a very significant percentage difference on the retail price if it were manufactured in the US. I also believe Apple would have a higher market share, by how much no idea, if they bragged about manufacturing in the US only. It worked for the car industry so why not?

      To me one economical danger of offshoring production is that the western companies are both training and financing their future competitors. Look at all the computers and smartphones from offshore companies. Most quality TV brands are 'offshore' brands (Sony, Samsung, LG) and nobody thinks of them as cheap low quality compared to US brands (which ones really? Vizio maybe?). Even the TV market is starting to see Chinese brands.

      So let's stop always putting offshore in the bucket of low quality, the US is producing low quality and badly designed products as well. Made in USA is not a guarantee of superior quality.

    14. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Walmart doesn't manufacture products. Walmart can't sell you an American made version of a Samsung TV if Samsung doesn't make them!

      That does not change the fact that when consumers do have a choice they generally choose low cost import.

      Nor does it change the fact that 45 years ago consumers did have a choice in TVs and chose the cheap import. Again, we're talking about a trend that has been at work for at least 50 years.

    15. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, wal-mart will tell their suppliers to get cheaper or lose their business. Often times this will mean slashing employee pay and benefits.
      If I worked at levis I'd happily take the time to shaft wal-mart and it's inbred shoppers by shipping them inferior products at that point before I took a pay cut. It's not like you're going to hurt your higher end branding by ripping off a wal-mart shopper any more than you hurt it for having your shit in their stores in the first place. Fuck wal-mart and fuck the people who shop there.

    16. Re:"We" are forcing quality down ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Sure, there are always exceptions. And the good side of globalization is bringing in high quality or specialized/new goods that are not normally available. However over the last 50 years a huge amount of low quality imports have displaced higher quality domestics and that was due to consumer based decisions.

      I want to stress that I am referring to a 50 year process, not just today's situation. Although the trend continues, and more importantly the trend is reversible IFF consumers show a preference for domestic/local.

    17. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Sure, people will buy the cheapest thing if there is no compelling reason to buy the more expensive thing. That is how capitalism is designed. Consumers look for the best deal and corporations try to spend as much money as possible. It is up to the government to strike a balance between the two. What needs to be done is to convince people 'buying local' is a compelling reason on its own. The government has not been successful at doing that.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    18. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Sure, people will buy the cheapest thing if there is no compelling reason to buy the more expensive thing. That is how capitalism is designed. Consumers look for the best deal and corporations try to spend as much money as possible. It is up to the government to strike a balance between the two. What needs to be done is to convince people 'buying local' is a compelling reason on its own. The government has not been successful at doing that.

      Actually no. It's not just capitalism. It is culture. Travel the world. Go to Germany. Italy, and the best example of all, Japan. People buy less, but when they buy, they tend to buy quality (and typically home-made.) They just don't buy cheap made abroad nilly willy unless there is a specific intent or when practical.

      What is happening, and I keep referring to this, is that we are a rich country of really poor people who see themselves (quite realistically) at the bottom of a barrel. Struggling to make ends meet coupled with a culture that worships consumerism and pays lip service to savings, we have masses who simply cannot opt to buy unless the cheapest thing they find.

      You do not typically see this kind of mass behavior in a developed country (but you do see it, by necessity, in poor countries, like the one I come from.)

      Quality has a cost (in particular American-made quality), and that is something not within reach of the American blue collar worker.

    19. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      But the problem is quality is an illusion. If more expensive things really had higher quality than they should at least have longer warranties. But no matter how much you pay, the manufacturer will dump you after a year. The emphasis is on buying a new product to replace the old one, not keep the old one going. Look at all the pain people feel over being *forbidden* from fixing their own devices. If manufacturers want us to buy the higher quality 'thing', then they are definitely sending the wrong message. I don't really believe they want us to buy higher quality things. I think they want to pretend we're buying high quality while selling us something that we will need to replace as soon as possible.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    20. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      What percentage of products are greenwashing and what percentage are effective and less troublesome for people and/or the environment I don't know. However that doesn't matter to my point, which is that people demonstrated a willingness to buy something using a metric other than the lowest price and manufacturers and retailers respond. It worked for "green". It could work for "domestic/local".

      This has never not been the case, neither for green nor domestic/local nor any other value-add category you can name. Never, at any point in time, has the competitor with the lowest price always won. This has remained true even in the case of the worst economic periods in history.

      Granted, there is the concept of inferior goods (inferior goods are defined as those that rise in demand when the economy is going through a rough period, and fall in demand when the economy does well; ramen noodles are an example of an inferior good) but inferior goods aren't the only goods that manage to do well during bad times.

    21. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Sure, people will buy the cheapest thing if there is no compelling reason to buy the more expensive thing.

      The compelling reason is their own economic security, their job prospects. As the other poster refers to, in other countries the people better understand this and do have a bias towards domestic goods. It is something they consider. The problem is we don't. In the 1970s there was a popular bumper sticker, "Save a Job, Buy American". Back then people couldn't imagine the offshoring that would come. Now people should have a better appreciation of this phrase. The people in the other countries have often had their own bad times and already learned this lesson.

    22. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure you are getting my point. My point is that consumers demonstrated a preference for something, a consideration other than the lowest price. Manufacturers responded with products matching that consumer consideration. Consumers need to make domestic/local production one such consideration. As consumers rewarded companies that offshored, they can reverse their behavior and reward companies that produce domestically. Manufacturers will respond.

    23. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      My point is that consumers demonstrated a preference for something, a consideration other than the lowest price.

      And my point is that this is nothing new. You're talking/implying as though people didn't do this in the past and are now suddenly doing it, which is very much incorrect. As I stated previously: There has never been any point in history where the competitor with the lowest price always wins. It's just straight up never happened.

      I know Bernie (and his fan base) and some socialists love to talk about capitalism being a race to the bottom, but it's all a load of crap spewed by people who fundamentally don't understand economics (hell, socialism itself wouldn't even be a thing if they did.) Businesses have always preferred to compete on value, and not strictly on price.

    24. Re: "We" are forcing quality down ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

      Businesses don't get to decide if they compete on value or price. Consumers make that choice for them. Business follows where consumers lead them.

      The point you are missing is that US consumers now consider environmental impact a value, for at least five decades they have not considered domestic/local manufacture a value. That can change, domestic/local could become a value in the mind of the consumer. This conversation is not about if some value exits, it is about the specific value of domestic/local manufacture.

  5. The real story ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

    ... is that Amazon won.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  6. First you get the money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then you get the robots,
    Then you get the power,
    Then you get the women.
    Then you get the robot women.
    Profit!

  7. Pants on Fire or Emulating Twitler, or Both by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article says: "... its large network of stores that attract shoppers for such items as fresh food." People actually go to Wally's for fresh food? In whose imagination? Those stores must be in third world countries or some part of ours that resembles one.

    1. Re:Pants on Fire or Emulating Twitler, or Both by lucm · · Score: 1

      a typical household shopping at Walmart save something like $1,200 / year on groceries alone. That pays for Netflix, internet and maybe even a mobile phone.

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      lucm, indeed.
  8. Confidential directive from Jeff Bezos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Walk into Store No. 9 every day for a week and buy up all the frozen pizza and waffles you can carry. Take them to San Francisco and give them to charity. Send me the bill.

  9. Re:I can see it now by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    you're confused, that's a much more likely scenario for ghetto thugs getting ammo or narcotics in the future.

    Most the MAGA group gets their ammo legally over the counter, and don't hunt minorities. In fact, instead, you'll find the aforementioned ghetto thugs the primary hunters and rapers of other humans.

  10. "innovation" by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

    When did silicon valley define "innovative" to mean "Almost as boring as the same old shit"?

    This jet.com for example appears to be amazon as it has existed since 1998, except prices are going to be even harder to figure out. Oops, I'm sorry, I mean "ALGORITHMS! MAGIC! "LOWER" PRICES!"

    When you say "innovative" I think new like the first iphone after I had a fliphone, or like CRISPR DNA editing. Tech bros say innovation though and mean "This iphone doesn't have headphone plugs!"

    Walmart pretending to be "innovating" means we should probably just give up the word entirely, it's fucking dead.

  11. You're oversimplifying a complex issue by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    to blame the working class. Americans shop on price because we're desperately trying to maintain our standard of living in the face of declining wages. Those wages are declining because of globalization and automation. Both of those started in the 60s after communism was neutralized as a threat (real communism, not the phone crap Mao & Stalin pushed).

    Walmart's slogan nails it: You're not destroying Unions and plunging the country into the worst income inequality since WWI; you're saving money, living better.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  12. So precious by lucm · · Score: 1

    I see no reason to reward Walmart with my business.

    "Reward" them? Is that how you see yourself, the belle of the ball that all retailers should bend over backward to please just so they can "deserve" your benevolent purchase of low-quality chinese dishware and apparel?

    Buying and selling are two sides of a shared transaction. Neither side is "rewarding" the other. If you don't want to do business with Walmart, go somewhere else to buy your toilet paper for a little more. They're not going to go bankrupt over your boycott or over the strongly worded Facebook posts you make. There's plenty of people who are more than happy to accept a less comfortable shopping experience in exchange for lower prices.

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    lucm, indeed.
    1. Re:So precious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They treat their employees badly, treat their suppliers badly and force quality down in the name of price

      The guy's comment wasn't that Walmart is less comfortable, it's that they treat people badly and actively degrade the quality of the goods they sell. Those are some of the same reasons I don't shop there. Another is that Walmart tends to ruin small towns by opening a big store, undercutting all the local businesses until they collapse, and then closing the store once they've extracted all the money they can, leaving behind a ghost town. There are more reasons, but I think these are enough.

      I don't make Facebook posts about it, and I don't expect that my not patronizing Walmart will cause them to go bankrupt. I don't shop there because they're an enormous corporation doing shitty things to other businesses and people much smaller than they are, and I'd rather not support that. I'd rather pay a little more for better quality at a locally owned business.

    2. Re:So precious by lucm · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. The part that annoys me is not people who don't shop at Walmart (I don't go there much myself), it's people who talk about "rewarding" a retailer with their business. That's just ridiculous.

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      lucm, indeed.
  13. Walmart leverages the pre-existing behavior by perpenso · · Score: 1

    You're oversimplifying a complex issue to blame the working class. Americans shop on price because we're desperately trying to maintain our standard of living in the face of declining wages. Those wages are declining because of globalization and automation.

    Globalization is in part a result of the consumer's willingness to consider price above any other consideration. The consumer drives the offshoring process through their choices, their "tragedy of the commons" logic. CEOs may be greedy but it is sales that satisfy their greed, and it is consumers who decide whether offshoring improves or hurts sales.

    Walmart's slogan nails it: You're not destroying Unions and plunging the country into the worst income inequality since WWI; you're saving money, living better.

    The thing is Walmart is not creating that behavior, they are capitalizing on that pre-existing behavior, they leverage the pre-existing behavior.

  14. Re:Walmart WAS a tech leader ... by gosand · · Score: 1

    You are confusing "technology" with "IT Sector". Those are two completely different things. Wal-Mart was innovating with technology a long time ago, increasing efficiency and automating a lot of information flow - for their own purposes. I thought all that was widely known. I think that they weren't quite as prepared for the web presence, and although they were in it early, they don't dominate like other players. I remember reading about how they deployed RFID to their warehouses to track trucks, and how they optimized shipping routes, etc. All high-tech, but not necessarily consumer facing.

    Having said that, I don't shop there unless I absolutely need something quickly that nobody else around has... maybe 2 or 3 times a year. IT people or managers might be paid well, but my brother used to work for them and he absolutely hated it. As soon as he could find something else he left. They kept him at a certain number of hours to avoid having to offer insurance. If there is one thing I haven't heard about Wal-Mart, it's that they treat their employees well.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  15. The Bullshit is strong in this one. by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    Except that for most things you spend more when you buy at walmart because the quality is much lower.

    And this is a problem because? Sometimes you want something cheap. Sometimes you don't. I buy the shows I go to the office at walmart for less than $20. Cheap pair of docker and polo shirt knock offs (or from Target) and voila, business casual for an industry (software) that doesn't typically give a shit about what you wear.

    Now, for running shoes, a nice pair of trekking sandals, or for dress shoes to go with my business suites (when I have to be formal) I spent a lot more on that.

    Additionally, some people cannot afford to buy anything but cheap and rely on walmart for bulk purchases or the dollar store. That shit you are spouting right there is kind of dogmatic, spouted from a position of privilege.

    I never buy anything from walmart either because of this and because of how shitty they treat not only their employees.

    Sure they are shitty in terms of pay, but 1) employees are not forced to work there or, say, McDonalds (disclosure, I worked at McDonalds 26 years ago), and 2) is it really solely's Walmart's fault?

    We have a society where every fucking body exercises an "everyone for himself, I got mine, fuck you very much attitude." Everyone. Including SWJs.

    We have no reasonable health care system separated from employment (be it single payer or government regulated.) Furthermore, we have no reasonable pension system either (no, social security ain't it.)

    What's worse, people on the receiving end of inequality keep voting against their own interests either by action or inaction.

    By action like those flyover country imbeciles who are now panicking after realizing their beloved ACA/Medicaid expansion benefits were one and the same as the hated Obamacare free shit handouts that (supposedly) inner city moochers were getting.

    By inaction, like those many blue voters who were also dependent on government programs, who understood the threats posed by promises of mindless, absolutist "small government" government, but who could not fucking bother to go vote because they didn't like the major candidates.

    So here we are, from bad to worse if you are poor. Of all the rich countries in the world, we are the ones were being poor is really fucking catastrophic.

    Companies like Walmart simply operate in a culture and governance that represents people's attitudes. We are fucking complacent with the many problems that plague us, but we do nothing about it other than bitching about "evul corps".

    Corporations do not have an obligation for social engineering. Government does (and ergo, by the people who vote or choose not to vote.)

    This is the richest country of poor people the world has ever seen. By design, by the people. Them wounds are self-inflicted.

    The whole "I ain't gonna buy from Walmart hurr durr", that's bullshit. It changes nothing (since the problem is not there), and it hurts employees who obviously rely on a store's ability to sell to make a paycheck.

    Sure, delude yourself into thinking you are standing up to something by choosing not to buy at Walmart. That'll show them meanies.