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Patents Are A Big Part Of Why We Can't Own Nice Things (eff.org)

An anonymous reader shares an EFF article: Today, the Supreme Court heard arguments in a case that could allow companies to keep a dead hand of control over their products, even after you buy them. The case, Impression Products v. Lexmark International, is on appeal from the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, who last year affirmed its own precedent allowing patent holders to restrict how consumers can use the products they buy. That decision, and the precedent it relied on, departs from long established legal rules that safeguard consumers and enable innovation. When you buy something physical -- a toaster, a book, or a printer, for example -- you expect to be free to use it as you see fit: to adapt it to suit your needs, fix it when it breaks, re-use it, lend it, sell it, or give it away when you're done with it. Your freedom to do those things is a necessary aspect of your ownership of those objects. If you can't do them, because the seller or manufacturer has imposed restrictions or limitations on your use of the product, then you don't really own them. Traditionally, the law safeguards these freedoms by discouraging sellers from imposing certain conditions or restrictions on the sale of goods and property, and limiting the circumstances in which those restrictions may be imposed by contract. But some companies are relentless in their quest to circumvent and undermine these protections. They want to control what end users of their products can do with the stuff they ostensibly own, by attaching restrictions and conditions on purchasers, locking down their products, and locking you (along with competitors and researchers) out. If they can do that through patent law, rather than ordinary contract, it would mean they could evade legal limits on contracts, and that any one using a product in violation of those restrictions (whether a consumer or competitor) could face harsh penalties for patent infringement.

14 of 243 comments (clear)

  1. Conversely... by BronsCon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Patents are also why we can own nice things.

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    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    1. Re:Conversely... by BronsCon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. No, I was right the first time. You can't own something that doesn't exist; and patents do server the purpose of forcing dissemination of information in exchange for temporary protection. That, in turn, allows others to build on previous work and make nice things, many of which we actually can own. That a handful of unscrupulous assholes has found a way to circumvent that should not negate all of the good aspects of patents; we should, rather, amend patent laws in a way that prevents such abuse going forward.

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      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    2. Re:Conversely... by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you wish to claim that without patents, those nice thing would not be made?

      Perhaps it would take more time, effort and money to make those things, but that is debatable.

      Patents are also why we can't have nice things that share some property with a patented thing.
      Patents are also why those nice things are more expensive.

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    3. Re:Conversely... by BronsCon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As made evident by how far we progressed in the many decades which preceded patents, versus how little progress has been made since 1790, right?

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      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    4. Re:Conversely... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are written vague on purpose, because to be specific, would allow others to build upon your patent, and patent their improvements, locking you into a stale old way of building said invention, never able to improve it.

      As a libertarian, I am all for the repealing of most patents, and the shortening of the term of protection. As it stands now, patents do not protect anyone from anything for very long. If something is popular, and patented, it will be cloned and ripped off anyway.

      Patent abuse is like anything else the government does, it doesn't help many people, and hurts more people than it helps.

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    5. Re:Conversely... by BronsCon · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Very well said. I'd like to expand on your first point, though, as I fear it may have flown right over the heads of our dear readers.

      They are written vague on purpose, because to be specific, would allow others to build upon your patent, and patent their improvements, locking you into a stale old way of building said invention, never able to improve it.

      This is precisely the type of abuse, by a handful of unscrupulous assholes (patent holders being, relative to the entirety of the population, a handful of people), which I propose we amend patent laws to prevent.

      And, by amend, I truly mean "actually enforce the laws as written", since they already require some degree of specificity.

      For the sake of our dear readers, continuing on with your comment:

      As a libertarian, I am all for the repealing of most patents, and the shortening of the term of protection.

      Indeed, repealing patents which do not follow the laws as currently written, which require a degree of specificity, lacking in many, and a degree of non-obviousness to a skilled professional in the relevant field, lacking in many others, would be the first necessary step in actually enforcing those laws as written.

      It's debatable whether the term should be shortened; many would argue it should be extended, as was done with copyright. Personally, I believe that patents and copyright were given the terms they were originally given based on how long it took to produce and circulate a work at the time that those respective laws were written; as both now take considerably less time, yes, I agree that the terms should be shortened.

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      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    6. Re:Conversely... by Weaselmancer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, the "whims" are all spelled-out for you and known before you pay for it, maybe it is not so bad...

      When is the last time you read an EULA?

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      Weaselmancer
      rediculous.
  2. IP law is in danger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The more it governs non-commercial activity the more it will be ignored. We are two generations in raising kids that think copyright is a joke and patents are mere excuses to sue.

  3. goodbye jiffy lube hello $60-$100 dealer oil chang by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    goodbye jiffy lube hello $60-$100 dealer oil change.

    Just be lucky it's not a dealer with an $100 minute change for any service even just to get an estimate.

  4. Re:Flamebait opinion piece, not news. by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unfortunately it's still an issue. And it gets a bigger one every day.

    Patents were supposed to spur innovation by giving inventors an incentive to show their inventions and how they work instead of guarding them as secrets, so that others could learn from it and use the information learned to create more while the original inventor can enjoy protection for his invention for some time. This has been perverted and warped to mean that non-inventions and trivialities are being patented to stifle competition and ensure that cornering markets becomes a reality.

    This has many ramifications for both, customers and competitors. Yes, patents were supposed to grant you a monopoly for your invention for a certain time. What this has been turned into is that manufacturers use that lever to eliminate competition and keep people from actually owning what they buy. If you don't want to sell me something and only allow me to rent it, fine by me, but then call it RENT. With all the relevant obligations on your side that entails. But companies want their cake and eat it too, and that's simply not how our economy works.

    If you deprive me of a right I have, I will take that right from you. By force if necessary. If I buy something from you, I own it. And rest assured, I will not only find out how to claim ownership over things I buy, I will do my best to inform anyone who wants to listen how they can wrest their property from your stranglehold.

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  5. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  6. Re:Flamebait opinion piece, not news. by skr95062 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unfortunately it's still an issue. And it gets a bigger one every day.

    You are correct, patents and copyrights are both problematic and will continue to be.
    Lexmark used the DMCA several years ago to do the same thing against Static Controls and re-manufactured ink cartridges.
    They lost then, now they are giving patents a try for the same thing.
    If Lexmark wins, we all loose.
    This will be just like John Deere is with their tractors, see the article titled "Why American Farmers are hacking their own Tractors" a couple of articles below this one. Spend 150K on a piece of Farm equipment that is not really yours, you are just renting it, if you use it for a purpose not authorized by them they will brick it.
    Pretty soon Ford, GM et al will be claiming that the money you paid for that sporty CAR is only for the right to drive it a specific way, on roads they tell you can drive on and you must take the vehicle to the dealer for service since you don't really own it, you are just renting it.

  7. Re:Problem is a matter of Fraud. Rent vs Sell by gurps_npc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You have a solid point. To add to what you say:

    A) Patents are anti-capitalism. And so are similar IP issues, such as copyrights. Patents were created under mercantilism, and they were not for inventors, but for friends of the king. Later when capitalism came along, we needed some way to encourage invention in a free market society where competition was essential. They could have set up a simple 10% fee structure, but instead went for an unlimited patent system. Big mistake. But capitalism was strong enough to handle it in most of the early cases. But in time the patent holders expanded their power, particularly in life or death situations (pay what we demand if you want this life saving medicine - or die).

    B) The world has changed significantly since those IP deals were created, speeding up. What used to take 10 years now takes 1. The real time that would be appropiate for those licenses is measured in more like 5 years, not 50. I.E. most of the honest profit is made in the first 5 years, after that it's dishonest prevention of innovation.

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  8. Re:goodbye jiffy lube hello $60-$100 dealer oil ch by apoc.famine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My Toyota dealer charges $30. Comes with a pretty thorough inspection and a car wash. As far as I can tell, they haven't ever ripped me off. Didn't tell me my battery needed to be replaced until it was 8 years old and failed their load test. Offered to have a guy weld a hole in my exhaust for $200 rather than replacing the entire thing for 5-10x that much.
     
    Not sure if all Toyota dealers are like this, or if I'm just lucky to have found a great one.

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