NYC Poised to Ban Firms From Asking Job Candidates About Pay (bloomberg.com)

In a vote this week, the New York City approved legislation that will ban employers from asking job applicants about what they make in their current or past job and could have far-reaching consequences beyond the city as employers try to standardize their practices. From a report: "This bill will go a long way in addressing wage disparities women -- and particularly women of color -- face," said Public Advocate Letitia James, who sponsored the measure. White women in New York earn on average 84 percent of what white men earn, while Asian women earn 63 percent, black women earn 55 percent and Hispanic women just 46 percent, according to a report from the advocate's office, based on U.S. Census data. Asking about pay in a job interview hurts women who may start from a lower level than male candidates -- an effect that compounds over time. "It perpetuates discrimination," James said. "And it has an effect on their pensions as well."

Comments

Not going to change anything

[religionofpeas]

Just because you don't know what someone made in their previous job doesn't mean that they'll be offered more.

Re:Not going to change anything

[Anonymous Coward]

If they're going to leave shortly perhaps then they're overqualified for the position or your not paying appropriately.

Re:Not going to change anything

[ShanghaiBill]

Just mandate that the pay be stated upfront in the original job ad.

When I advertise for a "programmer", I usually don't have a specific salary in mind. If one applicant is more capable than another, then I will offer more. If I put a low salary range in the ad, the better candidates will not apply. If I put a high range, then I will be flooded with responses from lousy candidates that are not even remotely qualified for that salary.

How do these statistics work?

[bluefoxlucid]

I'm working at a business with low pay--where the average for a programmer is $96k here, programmers make $74k. The same is true of most IT staff, running a good 20%-30% short of the industry median.

We're also fairly diversified and have chicks and people from all over the world in our staff, and have had folks who speak Russian or obscure Indian dialects as a primary language in prominent technical positions. They're also poorly-paid, although near as I can tell we all have about the same salary.

It seems like a form of posturing: we don't want to pay salaries, so we create a perception of ... something. We're a good place to work because of something something benefits diversity open-door-policy.

Are these studies by industry, region, experience, and business? Do we say that black women earn 55% as much as white men, or do we say that black women at business X in job Y earn 55% as much as white men in business X at job Y? What happens if business X mostly hires white men for job Y, and business X' hires a higher proportion of black and asian women for job Y but also pays like shit even if you're a white man?

Re:How do these statistics work?

[m00sh]

I'm working at a business with low pay--where the average for a programmer is $96k here, programmers make $74k. The same is true of most IT staff, running a good 20%-30% short of the industry median.

We're also fairly diversified and have chicks and people from all over the world in our staff, and have had folks who speak Russian or obscure Indian dialects as a primary language in prominent technical positions. They're also poorly-paid, although near as I can tell we all have about the same salary.

It seems like a form of posturing: we don't want to pay salaries, so we create a perception of ... something. We're a good place to work because of something something benefits diversity open-door-policy.

Are these studies by industry, region, experience, and business? Do we say that black women earn 55% as much as white men, or do we say that black women at business X in job Y earn 55% as much as white men in business X at job Y? What happens if business X mostly hires white men for job Y, and business X' hires a higher proportion of black and asian women for job Y but also pays like shit even if you're a white man?

That doesn't work. Recruiters will successfully poach someone getting underpaid or unhappy. So, it seems like you're unhappy about getting underpaid.

Competition is why people earn what they earn what they earn. Your employer cannot get away with paying you $x when employer B will pay you $(x+y). At a statistical level, maybe race and gender matters but on a personal level there are too many variations.

Pay negotiations still have to happen

[captaindomon]

So what? Pay negotiations still want to happen. "I can't ask you what you make now. Ok, next question: Is our offer of $100k acceptable? No? What would you consider an acceptable offer?"

Re: The wage gap myth continues...

[Frobnicator]

https://hired.com/gender-wage-...

Thank you for posting that. The key elements from that report are clear to most:

First, what is the pay disparity:

Our data shows that 63% of the time women receive lower salary offers than men for the same job at the same company. This figure has improved slightly from 69% since our 2016 report. On average, women are paid 4% less than male applicants for the same role

Then look up the negotiation of wages:

When examining our candidates’ preferred salaries, we discovered that for 69% of the roles for which both a man and a woman were given an initial offer, women set their preferred salary less than men. Women asked for an average of 4% less than men.

The pay disparity is almost entirely (but not quite entirely) due to men asking for more money, and women asking for less money.

There are plenty of books on the subject like "Women Don't Ask" and "Nice Girls Don't Get The Corner Office", but the studies they cite show that men are about 8x more likely to ask for money during salary negotiations, and when they do, men ask for more money than women. Men ask for raises/bonuses/promotions anywhere from 4x to 8x more often than women.

Most of the difference is men ASK for more, and generally women who also ask will get it. Once they decide to hire, the companies generally pay whatever the candidate asks.

Re:It feels like the Dice era around here again.

[MightyMartian]

I'm sorry, but there's an entire political ideology that believes that if it makes gas cheap, CO2's properties magically change, so I'm not interested in those who weight their subjective ideologies higher than objective reality.