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Trump To Overhaul H-1B Visa Program To Encourage Hiring Americans (theguardian.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: In a bid to court working class voters, Donald Trump will sign an executive order on Tuesday to revamp a temporary visa program used to bring foreign workers to fill jobs in the U.S. The president will use a visit to a manufacturing company in Kenosha, Wisconsin, a crucial state he snatched from Hillary Clinton in the election, to promote his latest "Buy America Hire America" offensive. Trump's executive order will call on government departments to introduce reforms to ensure that H-1B visas are awarded to the "most skilled or highest paid applicants," a senior administration official said. The executive order will also call for the "strict enforcement" of laws governing entry to the U.S. of labor from overseas, with a view to creating higher wages and employment rates for U.S. workers. The order will also call on government departments to "take prompt action to crack down on fraud and abuse" in the immigration system, a senior administration official said. The administration official sad: "Right now H-1B visas are awarded by random lottery and many of you will be surprised to know that about 80% of H-1B workers are paid less than the median wage in their fields. Only 5% to 6%, depending on the year, of H-1B workers command the highest wage tier recognized by the Department of Labor. [...] If you change that current system that awards visas randomly, without regard for skill or wage, to a skills-based awarding, it makes it extremely difficult to use the visa to replace or undercut American workers [...] It's a very elegant way of solving very systemic problems in the H-1B guest worker visa."

31 of 619 comments (clear)

  1. Make America Great by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We are making America Great Again!

    1. Re:Make America Great by PoopJuggler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have a really low standard for "great" apparently. I would define "great" as leading the world in peaceful conflict resolution, technological advancement, social advancement, education, art and overall happiness and equality of a nation's citizenry. Trump is working towards, well, none of those.

    2. Re: Make America Great by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When I had a mullet and a T-Bird.

    3. Re:Make America Great by gatkinso · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would agree with that assessment of great, however using that metric, no nation has ever been great.

      So now we fall back to "richest and most powerful."

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    4. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What exactly has he done wrong so far?

      The better question is what he's done right. So far he has signed an unconstitutional executive order, inflamed tensions with Russia and North Korea, sent his press secretary out to blatantly and obviously lie to the press, vacillated on his positions regarding Syria, China, and NATO, accused the previous administration of criminality with no proof or evidence, and acted surprised that things like health care legislation and international relations are complicated. He tweets at 3 AM about Arnold Schwarzenegger's performance at his old job, like some teenage girl jealous that Brian likes Becky now.

      The man is a boor and a buffoon, and an embarrassment to our country. I'm still slightly astounded that about 27% of the population doesn't recognize that.

    5. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When it was a lot easier to get jobs, without worrying about them being eliminated and sent overseas. When products were of quality make and made in America

    6. Re:Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have a really low standard for "great" apparently. I would define "great" as leading the world in peaceful conflict resolution, technological advancement, social advancement, education, art and overall happiness and equality of a nation's citizenry. Trump is working towards, well, none of those.

      Let's go through each of these.

      The first one is particularly telling. It was Trump, more than anybody (except perhaps Bernie, certainly more than Hilary) who spoke out against getting America involved in foreign wars. So much so that he was at 'war' (no pun intended) with a good section of his own party - Bush/Graham/McCain - over the Iraq war, which got particularly ugly during the SC primaries. He wanted to get along with Russia, but the Democrats made that impossible by obsessing over 'Russian interference' in the elections. Nonetheless, 2 weeks ago, most of his seniormost officials, like Tillerson and Haley, stated that they'd acquiesce with Assad remaining in power. This was as close to peaceful conflict resolution that one can get, and should have calmed Damascus. Instead, Assad launched a chemical weapons attack on Ibdil, making it impossible for Trump not to respond. One could hardly imagine a stupider Syrian response to what was essentially a peace gesture.

      After that, the North Korean thing can't be peaceful, given that President Un has stated that they are heading towards thermonuclear war. They have, in violation of many treaties, tested both nukes as well as ballistic missiles. Given that they could easily drop a nuke on Seoul, this is not a can that can be kicked down the road.

      Technological advancement - I'm not sure how any government is supposed to do that. The US is more technologically advanced than anyone else, but there are a few things here and there, such as protection of intellectual property, that can be done, but is currently lower priority.

      Social advancement - these days, it seems to center around anybody being able to enter bathrooms of their choice based on what they feel like. While more conservative factions of the party have taken a stance against that, the president has been careful not to.

      Education - well, college tuition costs are at an all time high, but education has not been landing people jobs, given how out of touch with the real world it is. If anything, it's a ball & chain that keeps young people deep in debt. It's hard to achieve overall happiness when things like education and health care are as screwed as they are, courtesy the previous administration.

      As for the nation's citizenry, they are equal. Equality of opportunity, that is. What you are looking for, perhaps, is equality of outcome, which is unattainable, even in pure Communist countries. What equality has come to mean is a code-word for affirmative action - something that's failed despite being around for 50 years.

      Trump's goals - making the US an attractive place to hire people, and making it militarily more powerful and politically more assertive, so that enemies like North Korea or Iran or ISIS don't mess with us, while adversaries like Russia, China, EU stop taking advantage of us - are certainly adequate in MAGA. So as Gatsinko noted above, making the US the richest & most powerful ever is the best path to getting there

    7. Re:Make America Great by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, massive, unconstitutional emoluments clause violations. This will be his downfall.

      The rest of the stuff is just because he's an ignorant moron.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    8. Re: Make America Great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Shouldn't the consumer bear some responsibility for this? You and others choose which products are successful when you and others make purchase choices.

      You go to the store to buy $THING. You see two choices. One costs more. Is it built to last, so that the extra cost is worth it? You can't tell without buying both and waiting several years.

      You are making the assumption that people buying things have complete information about the products they buy. That assumption does make the math easy in econ 101, but it is not true in the real world.

    9. Re: Make America Great by habig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The entire H1B is a scam.

      Techie tunnel vision: H1B's are used for many other purposes than getting cheap IT help from India. My interaction with the program has been "just hired a new theoretical physics professor, who happens to not hold US citizenship". How to get him permission to work at a US university? Get an H1B.

      In that case, it was pretty easy to prove there wasn't a US national who could fill the job better than the foreigner: we had just done an exhaustive search to find the best applicant.. Sounds like it was working as designed: don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

    10. Re: Make America Great by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Only a few people are saying "scrap the H1B" program. My current programming lead is from Europe, and I'd guess he's here on H1B or something similar, but most of our people are from the US. We're glad to have him, but I don't feel he's necessarily displacing any qualified workers. We've had positions opened for many months, and it's extremely difficult to find qualified people to fill those positions. There are plenty of tech workers in the US, but often you need people with very specific qualifications (no, real ones, not made up shit).

      But there's also no doubt that the program needs cleaning up to prevent some of the rampant abuse that's gone on. It's CLEARLY being abused by many corporations looking to save money by "outsourcing" without the downsides of the workers residing in another country.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    11. Re:Make America Great by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What exactly has he done wrong so far?

      The better question is what he's done right. So far he has signed an unconstitutional executive order,

      If it's unconstitutional then so was Obama's, yet nobody seemed to get their panties in a wad when he stopped Iraqis from coming into the country for a period of time based on a law passed by Congress. The judge used Trump's campaign language as a basis for deciding that now the order is illegal - I'm frankly more concerned about the judge.

      inflamed tensions with Russia

      Wait, I thought he was a Russian stooge. So difficult to keep up with this stuff.

      and North Korea,

      Oh, bull fucking shit. Kim Jong Un is pissing off the world, including China. His biggest export is coal and China just cut him off to buy from America. Are they also "inflaming tensions", or is the asshole Kim doing it himself? We both know the answer. It's good to have a US President that is willing to stand up to Kim. The guy is soon going to be able to put nukes on missiles - it's time to take him seriously.

      sent his press secretary out to blatantly and obviously lie to the press

      It took this long to get to something substantive.

      vacillated on his positions regarding Syria, China, and NATO, accused the previous administration of criminality with no proof or evidence, and acted surprised that things like health care legislation and international relations are complicated. He tweets at 3 AM about Arnold Schwarzenegger's performance at his old job, like some teenage girl jealous that Brian likes Becky now.

      The man is a boor and a buffoon, and an embarrassment to our country. I'm still slightly astounded that about 27% of the population doesn't recognize that.

      He has a 50% approval rating. Sorry to let you know that.

      And, frankly, he's no more of an embarrassment than Obama was. As a lefty, you probably didn't see that. Let me give you a clue - it got so bad that the President of the Philippines - long considered a vassal state to the US - openly mocked Obama last year. He was seen as a weak fool in Asia, which is why China wouldn't even give him the red carpet (don't bother with some stupid shit from media matters explaining that they actually did).

      I'm not a Trump fan but I recognize why he won (clue: Hillary) and I have no delusions that we would have been better off in *any* way with Hillary in the White House.

  2. It's A Start by StormReaver · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At least it's moving in the right direction. However, there is no shortage of skilled American workers. Just the opposite is true. We have a glut of skilled American workers, but there is a dramatic shortage of decent, livable-wage jobs in America.

    While tightening the rules around H1B is a good start, the system needs to be entirely gutted.

    1. Re:It's A Start by lq_x_pl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're simply not going to retrain people in their 40s+
      And this is the sort of age-ist bullshit that makes it easier for companies to continue abusive hiring practices. Is it reasonable to say that every 40+ worker can be a programmer? No, but to paint a huge swath of the population with the "they're simply untrainable" brush is as intolerant and ignorant as making any broad statement about broad swaths of the population.
      (30+ programmer here)

      --
      An internal system operation returned the error "The operation completed successfully.".
    2. Re:It's A Start by Dissenter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed. In the last 10 years I have seen more companies abusing this in the tech sectors than I have ever seen before. TATA Consulting Services or TCS has taken advantage of the lax H1-B rules in so many companies. Look at the more public cases like ComEd (midwest power company), Disney and others where TCS and other offshore companies were hired to place people here in the US to replace American workers simply because they were able to provide cheaper labor. They aren't paying prevailing wages, they are paying $50k - $60k for jobs that normally pay $75k to $80k. These workers live in apartments that are subsidised by TCS with roommates (2-3) so that they can afford housing. Sure it's white collar work with living wage rates, but these guys aren't bringing in 3-5 year veterans, they are bringing in college grads from India and other countries. We have TONS of college grads in technology that are looking for jobs. Many would be happy to take the $50k, but companies sign multi-BILLION DOLLAR contracts with these "offshoring companies" that require them to supply both offshore AND ONSHORE resources. As agile and other technical project management methodologies become more and more common, the need for having local resources that are able to work together more collaboratively has resulted in companies sponsoring ONSHORE replacement programs.

      That is the outrageous abuse that revamping the H1-B program needs to address. I have worked for and consulted for a number companies in the last 10 years and almost every one of them had some degree (some far more than others) of H1-B program in place that, at minimum, was using it to pay under-skilled foreigners less to "fill a role" that could be easily filled by native talent.

      To be clear, I am not an isolationist and many of the people that have come from these companies and countries are god friends of mine. Yes, on a personal level, I don't want to see them go, the the fact is that we are supposed to have a government that protects it's citizens, not a globalized economic system that puts us back into a pre-unionized age where the workers become oppressed and a slave class. Okay, that's a bit over the top, I mean getting paid $50k to sit at a desk and right code isn't anywhere near slavery, but my point is that it is regression and we shouldn't take that step back.

      To answer the obvious troll questions, yes, I am personally very frustrated by this whole issue. I have been in countless positions to hire talented people in junior roles where I can mentor and develop the kind of skills that college grads need. I have had interns from some universities that have shown promise, but rather than hire on some of these folks, I have been specifically told by one company that I cannot and that we need to meet the "contractual obligations of TCS and fill the role with an H1-B worker". When you're in that position, TCS doesn't send you top talent. The company, not the individual, has rewritten a resume for someone that has 1-2 years of offshore call center experience and coached them to lie in the interview. They coach them on what to say to basic job skill questions and often they have little to no experience other than a book they read on the plane trip to the US. I'm not joking, I have actually be told by a worker once that this was the case.

      Now, I've also hired a couple of VERY TALENTED folks that needed H1-B sponsorship and, if I am not able to find someone else to fill that specialized role (sometimes with jobs paying into the 6 figures) have agreed to cover the H1-B sponsorship costs. That is what this is supposed to be used for, but honestly, I can say that's been 2 times of the hundreds that I have seen over the last 10 years. This isn't an anti-world and anti-immigration thing, this is an anti-letting companies abuse policies that hurt US workers thing.

      --

      Dissenter
      "There is no knowledge that is not power."

    3. Re:It's A Start by cjonslashdot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think that age is relevant. I am 61, and I am completely current in my field (containers, Kubernetes). A few years back I worked at a small company populated with "DevOps" folks - all younger than me - and I ended up leaving because they were not able to mentally shift from VMs to containers. Age is not the issue. Also, while most of "middle America" is not going to turn into programmers, some of the young people in middle America who are just starting out might pick an IT career if they think there is opportunity in it - but they won't if all the jobs are taken by H1B people.

    4. Re:It's A Start by computational+super · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think 25 year-olds realize how relatively young 40 actually is...

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
  3. Even simpler, increase the wages by gatkinso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Raise the minimum salary to $100,000 per year, have it automatically increase by 1.5% per year. Done.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  4. Biased article.. by slashkitty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can tell the article and website are biased by the first phrase. "In a bid to court working class voters..." No, it's not a bid for voters. It's fulfilling a campaign promise. It's helping the American worker. As a programmer, (and mighty successful at that) I've been denied jobs at many companies who hire H1Bs over citizens like me. It must change.

    --
    -- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
  5. Re:What's wrong with these people?! by jonsmirl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Abuse of the H1-B program is not primarily done by large corporations. Instead there are specialized "body shops" doing it. These body shops pretty much only employ H1-B Indian software/testing people and then rent them out to business in the US as temporary staff. These body shop companies make huge profits for the owners since they bring in the H1-B people at very low wages and then rent them out at 90% of a normal salary. The savings to the large corporation is not much since most of the profits accrue to the body shops. One of these shop owners lives near me in a $20M house and has made over $100M profit from renting out H1-Bs. These body shops are where the bulk of the abuse occurs and they need to be outlawed.

  6. Re:So actually enforce the law? by jonsmirl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Haven't you noticed hundreds of tiny ads in the classified sections of local newspapers asking for programmers or testers and they include salary information? But when you contact them you never hear anything back? Those ads are generating the "proof" needed for the government that the position can't be filled by American workers.

  7. But it's a very well known fact... by gwolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That US-Americans haven't learned to use that metric. Nor any decent metric. They are still stuck using Imperial.

    (hmmm, quite fitting for Mr. Trump!)

  8. The simple way to fix the problems by jonwil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just set a minimum wage for H-1B visas so anyone imported in via a H-1B visa costs more than hiring an American to do the job would have cost and most of the abuse of the system goes away.

    Combine this with some sort of labor market testing so they cant bring in a foreign worker if there is an American capable of doing the job and 99% of the problems with H-1B visas go away. (if you do this right you can structure it to also avoid the situation where companies import foreign workers to train them up and send them back to their home country as cheap outsourced labor)

    Doing this ensures that H-1B visas only get used when there is no American capable of doing the job (and the company can demonstrate they tried to find an American for the job first) or when they need a specific individual for some reason (and can prove there is no American with the necessary skills/experience/knowledge to do the job)

    Will this solve every issue with H-1B visas? No. Will companies try to find loopholes? Yes. Would this be significantly better than doing nothing? Most definitely.

  9. You're giving him too much credit... by denzacar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Given the "swamp draining" skills Trump's shown so far, I'm expecting that he's going to outsource the implementation and enforcement of the H1B program to an Indian corporation...

    Instead, just start the countdown clock until he reports that "No one realized that visas would be so hard." or until he has a 10 minute conversation with a foreign leader who explains to him why he's wrong.
    Or until they find him in the corner of the rose garden smearing himself in his own shit as the dementia kicks into top gear.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  10. Re:Because the salespitch was a lie by gmack · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the program really was there to fill a labour pool deficit, it never would have allowed for visas for positions where the wage was below the current median wage (for those employed, not for empty positions waiting to be filled). You'd still get downward pressure on wages as labour supply increased, but it'd be slower. If the program was there to fill a labour pool deficit, it would never be allowed to be used in an instance where employees have to train their H1B replacements before being let go.

  11. J-visa workaround by zerofoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I suspect we will see an increase in "students" looking for work via J-visa:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    The administration better be ready for body shops to work around the new restrictions - there is too much money here to simply walk away.

  12. Re:It already bears fruit by DigiShaman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, a judge in California or Washington will shoot it down on the grounds of being discriminatory to Indians (dot, not feather). Also, and most importantly, it puts a "burden" on the tech sector for not having access to cheap global labor. I SHIT YOU NOT, that's how it will go down in flames. I'm 100% correct on this, just wait.

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  13. Re:So actually enforce the law? by Software · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A good example of H-1B abuse is when Disney make their employees train their foreign replacements. It's blatantly obvious that the outsourcing company committed fraud on the H-1B application. There's no way to claim that US-based workers cannot be found for a job that those workers are currently performing. The Disney workers sued and lost.

    Google, Microsoft, et al don't have standing to sue the outsourcing companies for visa abuse.

    It's not just low-level IT - as the links above show, it's entire departments. Even it was targeting low-level IT only, that makes it harder for new college graduates to find jobs - everybody has to start somewhere.

  14. Re:Easy way to MAGA by jeff4747 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    High-skill jobs were what was supposed to replace the lost manufacturing jobs. The idea was to retrain some manufacturing workers, and younger people would get degrees that lead into high-skill jobs.

    H1Bs greatly harm that paradigm.

    they need to bring manufacturing back as its the only place where you need large numbers of workers

    Not anymore. Automation means you only need a larger number of workers if they are incredibly cheap workers. As soon as you go above third-world wages, automation is cheaper.

    This is starting to happen to China. Their manufacturing workers are getting expensive enough that companies are looking at "re-shoring" with highly automated factories and virtually no workers, or moving their plant to another country where workers are still incredibly poor.

  15. Re:So actually enforce the law? by jader3rd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So what he's saying then is that there's nothing wrong with the law, it's just not being enforced?

    It's not just that. This EO is saying that someone has 220 days to create a report, for Trump to review about how the law is not being enforced. That's all. The reason for all of this bluster is to make his trust-and-don't-verify support base think that he's actually doing something.

  16. Re:Right Sure... by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apparently you don't know what the fuck you're talking about since that's not remotely close to being true.

    Please educate yourself. You're embarrassing all the other asshats on Slashdot.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/muslim-majority-countries-donald-trump-travel-ban-immigration-entry-visa-three-main-countries-exempt-a7552526.html

    Uh, yeah. You're the embarrassment who needs to educate yourself. The executive order is based on a law passed in 2015 and signed by Obama - and the seven countries are listed there. Even the loons at Politifact know this:

    http://www.politifact.com/wisc...