Cloudflare Helps Serve Up Hate Online: Report (cnet.com)

An anonymous reader writes: If you've been wondering how hate has proliferated online, especially since the 2016 election, ProPublica has some answers. According to ProPublica, Cloudflare -- a major San Francisco-based internet company -- enables extremist web sites to stay in business by providing them with internet data delivery services. Cloudflare reportedly also keeps to a policy of turning over contact information of anyone who complains to operators of the offending sites, thus exposing the complainants to personal harassment.

Comments

This is not news.

[Anonymous Coward]

TCP/IP enables extremist web sites to stay in business by providing them with internet data delivery services

Re:This is not news.

[XXongo]

...and doxing anybody who complains about a hate site.

don't forget that part.

Re:This is not news.

[ganjadude]

power company enables extremist website by providing power

Re:This is not news.

[chispito]

...and doxing anybody who complains about a hate site.

don't forget that part.

To be fair, you'd be pretty stupid to miss where it says they may release your contact information (name and email address) to the site owner. I think CloudFlare's general stance is they aren't interested in policing content that is not demonstrably illegal.

By submitting this report, you consent to the above information potentially being released by CloudFlare to third parties such as the website owner, the responsible hosting provider, law enforcement, and/or entities like Chilling Effects.

Ref: CloudFlare's Abuse Page

Re:This is not news.

[Anonymous Coward]

You say this like The Daily Stormer isn't legitimately hateful. You can't tell me that headlines like "Iran States Obvious Facts About Jew-Controlled Saudi Terrorist Regime" aren't written by an actual anti-Semite. Well, I mean, you could, but you'd be a retarded shitstain and probably believe that 2+2=5 if you did.

So they sell to anyone

[Anonymous Coward]

So Cloudfare sells their services to everyone who's willing to pay for it.

The ultimate in diversity and that's now "bad"?

Are there calls to stop providing services to Stephen Colbert's show and CBS now then?

No?

Huh...

Re:So they sell to anyone

[lgw]

So Cloudfare sells their services to everyone who's willing to pay for it.

The ultimate in diversity and that's now "bad"?

Correct, there's no room for diversity of thought in progressivism. It's more of a chanting-in-unison sort of thing.

Freedom of speech means "freedom of speech you don't like". Sound like Cloudflare is a champion of free speech (as if we didn't already know that from keeping torrent sites alive). Good on em.

Re:So they sell to anyone

[penandpaper]

So instead you cozy up to anarchist, spawn antifa, and riot?

Re:So they sell to anyone

[penandpaper]

You personally may not have... but I know more than a few Bernie fans who were so disillusioned that they voted for Trump in the end.

During the primaries I honestly could not believe the Clinton supporters and how arrogant they acted. "We don't need you or your vote!" was a common sentiment I saw.

I participated in both primary parties for Ron Paul (2012) and Bernie Sanders (2016) and while the GOP did do some messed up shit that bit them in the ass to ignore the delegates Ron Paul won during 2012, nothing compared to the #BernieBro resentment from the Clinton camp. It was incredible to me that there was such animosity for a different opinion in the same party. For all the faults of the GOP, they do have a fairly diverse range of ideas the party represent while the Democrats wanted to limit what is an acceptable opinion by shaming those that strayed from the party mantra.

Re:So they sell to anyone

[HeckRuler]

anarchist

Yes. Realize that the other side ALSO want anarchy, at least they want to tear down the government, deregulate everything, and trust the anarchy of the free market to rule in it's place. They want the government out of business. Our flavor of anarchists want the government out of our personal lives.

antifa

Who?

Is that anti-fascism? As in, Woody Guthrie? That guy with the "This machine kills fascism" guitar? If so, then yes. Bob Dylan has some good stuff too.

Am I supposed to be supporting fascism? Did I not get that memo?

and riot?

Sigh, yeah. That's a problem. I highly prefer the peaceful protest marches. And I could say something about there being plenty of violence on the other side of the fence. Or that the bulk of rioters are probably apolitical and just partaking of a crime of opportunity... but I have to admit that as far as cozzying up to bad tactics and asshats, that's been a problem.

We're sure not perfect, but we strive to change for the better. That's progressive.

Re:So they sell to anyone

[KiloByte]

more than a few Bernie fans who were so disillusioned that they voted for Trump in the end.

Even after seeing what he did during the first 100 days, I still think the cheeto was a slightly better choice than the Mother of Lies. And that both compare unfavourably to Cthulhu/Dagon.

The problem with you Americans is that your electoral scheme is made so no sane party is currently viable. You have a party that says attack helicopter is a gender and that straying a single word off their orthodoxy makes you worse than Hitler, and a party that says everything that disagrees with their sky fairy is wrong despite any evidence to the contrary. It's quite mind-boggling why a third party won't pop up and have 90% votes immediately (ie, anyone with a shred of brain left).

Re:So they sell to anyone

[Orgasmatron]

Things desperately needed by another medieval religion I could name.

The problem is that Martin Luther returned the church to the teachings of God. When people wish for an Islamic reformation, they want Islam to move away from Allah. There is no theological basis for a more peaceful Islam - instead, you get ISIS calling Muslims to return to the true Islam. In other words, ISIS is the reformation that you are hoping for.

http://vidble.com/GjpDwJJaPA.p...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

so having or communicating *emotion* is bad

[iggymanz]

an *extreminst* website is anything I think is extreme. like Windows fanboy websites.

"Hate" is anything I hate. If it's speech that I hate, the person is making "hate speech"

------------------

What a bunch of hothouse plants the current generation is, can't survive in the real human world

Re:so having or communicating *emotion* is bad

[hey!]

Actually, there *is* quite useful way to define extremism that doesn't rely on on subjective value judgments about the admissiability someone's particular ideology.

To the degree that a person tends to perceive the world as polarized into two camps with no overlap or middle ground, that person is an extremist. It doesn't mean he's wrong on any particular issue.

So, socialists who think anyone who isn't a socialist is a fascist are extremist socialists. Likewise capitalists who see any departure from laisez-faire as tantamount to communism are extremist capitalists. Their comrades with similar views about issues but somewhat more flexible views about people are not extremists.

Extremists view the world as populated by the moral equivalent of angels and devils; consequently they have a severe difficulty with compromising or horse-trading, which is tantamount to a deal with the devil. This is why extremist movements are notorious for schism.

This also explains the resurgence of extremism in the age of social media. It's never been easier to surround yourself with like-minded people, no matter how outré your particular mania is.

Now "hate speech" is an entirely different matter. It's poorly named because "hate" is not the defining characteristic. The defining characteristic of hate speech is intimidation. Suppose you burn a cross on a black family's lawn, not because you have anything personal against blacks, but because you know that it's better for your property's value if the neighborhood is entirely white. That's still hate speech, even though you don't feel any hate. On the other hand if you politely inform your black neighbor so you'd prefer it if the two of you stayed out of each other's way because you hate blacks, that's not hate speech.

Hate speech is a crime against liberty: it's an attempt to force people not to live here or put their genitals there, when it's none of your damn business.

I haven't

[Anonymous Coward]

f[sic] you've been wondering how hate has proliferated online

I haven't, and I don't really care. We have something called the "Freedom of Speech" in this country and most of the time when people are complaining about "hate speech" what they really mean are "people who disagree with me."

Well, tough it out, snowflake. Just because you've been triggered is no reason to squelch free speech.

not censoring is hate serving?

[sittingnut]

"hate" is a subjective term. people can get offended by anything they choose.
so unless there is a call for actual and specific illegal activity(say by calling for murder of a specific individual or group) such speech should not be censored based on such a vaguely defined term.

that is my opinion.
of course private companies have a right to do what they want with their property, either to censor or not. others(myself included) have a right to criticize that too, either way.

Re:not censoring is hate serving?

[Anonymous Coward]

of course private companies have a right to do what they want with their property, either to censor or not.

When the fuck did we let our words become someone else's property? I wouldn't put up with a phone line that tried to censor my conversations, would you?

Re:not censoring is hate serving?

[Hognoxious]

"Hate speech is speech which attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race, disability, or sexual orientation."

That's the definition.

Who put you in charge of the English language, you whining little shit?

What the hell?

[Notabadguy]

What sort of stupid hit piece is this?

I'm not even going to bother picking this apart because (1) other slashdotters will and (2) no one on here is stupid enough on here for this spin.

I scrolled back up expecting to see another infamous BeauHD submission, but its msmash. C'mon, don't lower your standards.

So, they dox anybody who complains

[XXongo]

"Cloudflare reportedly also keeps to a policy of turning over contact information of anyone who complains to operators of the offending sites, thus exposing the complainants to personal harassment."

So, they dox anybody who complains about a hate site. Charming.

Re:So, they dox anybody who complains

[omnichad]

Otherwise known as forwarding the complaint. They aren't policing content. Calling this "doxxing" is like complaining that Amazon gave your address to UPS.

This is Political Pressure

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct. This is not news. it is political propaganda.
These stories, like the "extremism on Youtube" stories, are designed to put pressure on companies to abandon their free speech principals and submit to the will of the media and the political class.

Let us be frank: The article mentions the "Daily Stormer", but the actual websites which will be banned are almost certain to resemble the Prop or Not list of alleged "Russian Propaganda" sites. A list promoted heavily be the Washington Post and other MSM sites which ultimately included many independent bloggers and even left-wing progressive sites like nakedcapitalism.com.

The Propornot list was a list of doubters. Sites which would not tow the propaganda line, on war, on the banks, on the economy, on the election. These are the sites which the political class has been scheming to proscribe since the election. I would hope that people can put aside their political preferences in that election long enough to acknowledge that it was a shocking defeat for the Media and the increasingly corrupt political establishment. Regardless of your opinions on him, someone the political class did not want got in, and they are making moves and exerting political pressure -- usually through their lapdogs in the media-- to prevent ANY such repeat occurrence.

Regardless of whether you'd prefer vote for Trump or Sanders or any other disruptive candidate come 2020, if this censorship drive continues, the MSM will dominate the internet as well, and you'll be stuck with the political equivalents of Hillary and Jeb Bush.

Doxxing?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it a "doxx" to forward complaints about a site to the site owner after telling people that you will forward complains to the site owner? Just look at the CloudFlare abuse report form -

By submitting this report, you consent to the above information potentially being released by CloudFlare to third parties such as the website owner, the responsible hosting provider, law enforcement, and/or entities like Chilling Effects.

(emphasis added)

They're not looking up your information, they're forwarding your feedback about the site to the people who actually control the site. It's your fault if you don't even read the damned page and send your contact info to some site telling the people who run it just how much you hate them.

Re:Doxxing?

[chispito]

When you send a DMCA to cloudflare, cloudflare ends it to the upstream provider

You've got a major uphill battle if you want Slashdot to agree with you that getting a DMCA takedown should be anonymous and easy.

Pleading the Sixth: right to confront accuser

[tepples]

I thought due process in Cloudflare's home country included the right for someone accused of a crime to confront his accuser (U.S. Const., Amendment VI).

Re:Link to actual article

[Repentinus]

Cloudfare shouldn't be policing their customers. If someone is violating the law and you are the victim, report it to law enforcement or initiate civil proceedings. It is the function of courts to issue permanent injunctions if the law is being violated and Cloudfare will comply with these injunctions; Cloudfare has no duty to act as an arbitrator, nor should it have. Also when it comes to spam, publish a restrictive DMARC policy and sign your outgoing e-mail streams using DKIM. Discard bounces if necessary.