Slashdot Mirror


IBM: Remote Working Is Great! (For Everyone Except Us) (theregister.co.uk)

An anonymous reader writes: IBM, the company that just weeks ago said it was doing away with its work-from-home policy, is now preaching the benefits of telecommuting to customers. Big Blue's Smarter Workforce Group says a recent panel it hosted at the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology (SIOP) conference concluded that customers who work remotely are "more engaged, have stronger trust in leadership and much stronger intention to stay. These findings mirror what an IBM Smarter Workforce Institute study found," the group wrote. "Challenging the modern myths of remote working shares employee research revealing that remote workers are highly engaged, more likely to consider their workplaces as innovative, happier about their job prospects and less stressed than their more traditional, office-bound colleagues." This is posted without any apparent sense of irony, as IBM said just weeks ago that remote workers were not part of its "recipe for success" and could no longer be permitted to work anywhere other than its six regional offices in various techie hubs around the US.

109 comments

  1. Finding remote work is hard by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I never had trouble finding a job as a programmer until I started looking for remote work.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Tablizer · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I never had trouble finding a job as a programmer until I started looking for remote work.

      You may have to ask for less money and let them know you are willing to accept less in exchange for being remote. They later may change their mind if you are highly productive.

      Whether remote work is "good" or not can be debated, but it makes many managers uncomfortable.

    2. Re:Finding remote work is hard by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I never had trouble finding a job as a programmer until I started looking for remote work.

      When you work on site, you are competing with your neighbor.
      When you work remote, you are competing with the guy in Mumbai.

    3. Re:Finding remote work is hard by djrobxx · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've worked from home almost my entire 24 year career (about 20 years at home, 4 years doing in-office work). But, every WFH position I've had, including my current one, came out of a previous at-office work relationship, where I'd already established the trust with my superiors that I know what I'm doing, and can be productive without supervision.

      If a company is just "blindly" hiring, they're going to pick someone who will work in-office every time, unless you have an extremely specialized skill set that's tough to find.
       

    4. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but it makes many managers uncomfortable.

      Managing remote workers is often different, and to many that means harder, and the average manager (like the average person) prefers easy.

    5. Re:Finding remote work is hard by peragrin · · Score: 1

      It is a lot harder to find brown nose to suck up to you when your employees are not around hourly

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    6. Re:Finding remote work is hard by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      So, you get hired, then after a few months you say, "Hey boss, I'd kind of like to work from home now."

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re:Finding remote work is hard by computational+super · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but it makes many managers uncomfortable

      Yet having remote workers on a different continent, in a different time zone, who don't necessarily speak the same language, is perfectly logical.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    8. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you work remote, you are competing with the guy in Mumbai who is willing to work graveyard shift.

      FTFY

    9. Re:Finding remote work is hard by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yet having remote workers on a different continent, in a different time zone, who don't necessarily speak the same language, is perfectly logical.

      Things don't need to be logical these days . . . they just need to be cheaper. The cheapest suggestion, which saves the most operating costs, wins.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    10. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "NO! I'm going to kill you now"

      (worker gets stabs repeatedly)

      "And if you ever tell anyone, I'll finish the job!"

    11. Re:Finding remote work is hard by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      Which is pretty much all of them anyway, so what's your point?

    12. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Trondheim · · Score: 1

      If a company is just "blindly" hiring, they're going to pick someone who will work in-office every time, unless you have an extremely specialized skill set that's tough to find.

      Why did Liam Neeson's face pop into my mind when I read this sentence?

    13. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's good that his skill set was an extremely specialized skill in finding tough to find people.

    14. Re:Finding remote work is hard by tattood · · Score: 1

      Things don't need to be logical these days . . . they just need to be cheaper. The cheapest suggestion, which saves the most operating costs, wins.

      If this were true, then hiring remote people would be more common. By this I mean full time employees, not people supplied by contracting companies.

      I presume the OP was referring to full time work as a software developer, and if your statement was true, then companies should prefer to hire remote people, because you usually pay remote people relative to their location. You can pay someone living in rural Missouri far less than someone living in the Bay Area or New York because the cost of living on Missouri is less than metropolitan cities.

      Managers don't like hiring remote workers because they don't trust that the person will be productive or they might not be doing their own work.

      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    15. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So subcontracting is only something the Ownership Class is allowed to do. Gotcha.

    16. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      The important thing for remote work is to let the boss know that work is being done. It's not remoteness that makes managers uncomfortable, instead the invisibility is the problem. Some people just don't like to communicate what they're working on even to their own boss. At the very least there should be a good status once a week, listing what is accomplished so far, what are the sticking points, and what the plan is for the next week. Even better, report something daily because the boss is being asked about the projects every day. Worst thing that can happen is that the boss is asked about Project X and the only reply that can be given is "I don't know, we have a guy in a cabin who I think may be working on it."

      The worry is not so much that the worker is goofing off (though that absolutely does happen), but that if problems come up they may take longer to correct, or that the worker is setting the wrong priorities because of being out of the loop, is the worker acting as part of a team instead of being a lone wolf, things like that.

      The hard part is getting the trust in the first place so the boss has some piece of mind. Of course remote workers can do a great job, but they can also be terrible, and how is the boss supposed to know for someone who's new? It's riskier than with a person who's local. The local person screws up and needs redirecting then you lose a day of work, if the remote worker screws up you may be a week behind before you hear about it and correct things.

    17. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      We have remote Australian workers. The language gap is pretty tricky at times, but they do good work.

      Outsourcing is different. First, they're not real workers, you can terminate the contract at any time if it's not working out. Second there's the "5 for the price of 1" deal, so that the CEO forces you to accept them even if you don't want to. Third, the outsourcing firm should be doing the management for you.

    18. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you work remote, you are competing with the guy in Mumbai who can afford to live well on $8 a week because food safety regulations are a (bribeable) afterthought, electricity is optional (except at the office), health care is exactly what the Republican Party would like to see come to the USA for anyone not wealthy enough to buy their own private hospital and water/sewer systems are a joke.

    19. Re: Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All that matters is price.

    20. Re: Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All that matters is price.

      If everything else is essentially equal.

    21. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Company I work for has allowed a few people to work from home after working in the office for a few years. Rumor has it those people are better off being away from everyone else. What I find surprising is these people then go and buy houses in places where commuting is not practical - cheaper, more space etc. What will they do if their employment comes to an end or they want them to come into the office again? Screwed.

      They are also liberal with allowing us to take work from home days here and there, so long as the work gets done they seem ok with it. Legend has it HR tried to shut it down at one point and the network ops manager told them no way because they'd lose good people. That makes sense to me.

      Lastly I dont figure why companies insist of having one large office in the middle of the city, impractical for commuting. I'd be nice if they had a few smaller offices spread around. For example here in Seattle if they had a sub office in Tacoma, or even in Puyallup people that currently commute with everyone else from south locations could reverse/cross commute, and even get access to larger talent pools, wouldnt that be nice! Course the people that could make those choices are paid enough to live in convenient places so its not of any interest to them.

    22. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Because if the price is right, they'll live with discomfort. When hiring "regular" employees, multiple typically apply, and thus managers have a choice of hiring a candidate willing to come in to a desk. If managers are going to accept remote up front, they may figure it's cheaper to get an offshored worker with approximately the same skills.

    23. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1

      Yet having remote workers on a different continent, in a different time zone, who don't necessarily speak the same language, is perfectly logical.

      Only when you can pay them less than half you would to pay them here

    24. Re:Finding remote work is hard by jezwel · · Score: 1

      yeah nah mate.
      Here ya go brudda, have a crack at dese
      http://alldownunder.com/austra...
      http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27888329
      http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html

    25. Re: Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was with you until the end. There's no talent in puyallup !

      Joke - grew up there.

    26. Re:Finding remote work is hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10 years of WFH for me. All 3 jobs came from coworkers at other companies who intro'd me as someone who can bring results. I've run distributed engineering teams from my home office, even ones that are mostly located at HQ. I fly a lot but otherwise I can't complain. Make a SF salary living in the suburban north east. It's all about your network and skill set. If you're good enough, you can work anywhere.

    27. Re:Finding remote work is hard by An+Ominous+Cow+Erred · · Score: 1

      Lastly I dont figure why companies insist of having one large office in the middle of the city, impractical for commuting. I'd be nice if they had a few smaller offices spread around. For example here in Seattle if they had a sub office in Tacoma, or even in Puyallup people that currently commute with everyone else from south locations could reverse/cross commute, and even get access to larger talent pools, wouldnt that be nice! Course the people that could make those choices are paid enough to live in convenient places so its not of any interest to them.

      Because in most major cities it's the easiest place to get to for the most number of people. The population tends to be clustered in a circle around the central area, and the city itself has a large population of talent to draw upon.

      Moreover, in most major cities in the U.S., the only decent public transit is in the core downtown area (NYC being probably the sole exception). For instance in the bay area it's trivial for both drivers and car-free people to get to downtown SF via BART/Muni/ferry. Car-free people tend to live near stations, and drivers who live in the suburbs can drive to a suburban BART station or ferry terminal to continue their trip downtown (and avoid the worst of the automobile traffic). People living in most any direction have at least some way to get from suburbs to central core quickly.

      Companies that build suburban campuses wind up limiting their talent pool because driving from one far flung suburb to another means long trips in traffic unless they happen to be near each other. Try getting to that job in Cupertino if you live in Vallejo. The central city (downtown SF) is a *compromise* location that is equidistant from the far flung locations.

      Furthermore, suburban offices mean you can't hire the car-free/car-lite talent pool. This is the problem companies like Google have -- and they had to go to the extreme measure of *creating their own transit system* to deal with the problem (and since the only system they can feasibly build is buses running on public roads, they are still screwed by auto traffic).

      Building lots of small offices in every little town to hold hires of every type is not a very desirable option because it breaks teams up -- effectively everyone is telecommuting *but still has to commute to an office*. That's why when companies do have a large number of locations, each one tends to specialize in only certain departments.

      A central location with large numbers of different types of transportation to get there (road, rail, water) just makes sense when you think of the logistics.

  2. No Remote Working? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what about all the remote Indian workers?

    1. Re: No Remote Working? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The get paid 1/3 what the average American does. You're more likely to get remote work if you're willing to work for less.

    2. Re: No Remote Working? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they don't get paid 1/3 what the average American does - their employer does. And like most contractors, only about 1/3 of that actually goes to the employee.

      Who isn't so much willing to work for less, as able to do so, because the cost of living is so much lower in the paradise of lower regulations and standards.

      They're definitely not doing it because they're "willing" or they wouldn't have been able to force their pay up from 1/10th US pay to 1/8th US pay over the last 10 years, Unlike US workers, no one could tell them "Be glad you have a job - people in India would be happy to do the work for a fraction of that", because they are those people in India and they know how happy they can be.

  3. Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by erac3rx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...when you know the real reason for removing their work-from-home policy and asking that everyone go to physical IBM offices.

    They're not doing away with employees working remotely because they don't believe in it, they're doing away with it to encourage their oldest employees to retire or quit. Possibly also to weed out some employees who weren't really doing any work, which happens plenty with any job that offers telecommuting.

    Once their oldest employees who aren't willing to relocate or move to keep their job quit, they'll offer telecommuting to their employees again.

    1. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by nwaack · · Score: 1

      Once their oldest employees who aren't willing to relocate or move to keep their job quit, they'll offer telecommuting to their employees again.

      Did one of their VP's tell you this or are you just making stuff up?

    2. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by Baron_Yam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not exactly the first time this type of thing has been done. It's a page out of the HR version of Sun Tzu's The Art of War.

      PetroCanada, for instance, bounced its offices back and forth between Toronto and Calgary a few times (back in the 80s or 90s). Lots of people tried to hang on and lost their shirts on moving expenses because the housing markets happened to be going the opposite way of the moves.

      Companies will sometimes hire an 'axe man' who gives them advice on the best way to get employees to leave for the least possible expense to the corporation. Forcing them to choose between moving and quitting is not uncommon.

    3. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by erac3rx · · Score: 2

      Of course not, I'm just speculating. Should have made that clear in my initial post.

      But isn't it kind of obvious that this policy will have precisely the effect I suggested? It's well-known that they have an aging workforce and people that have worked remotely for years if not decades.

      Asking people with families, kids in school, or folks who are near retirement to move to keep their job is clearly going to have more of an effect on their oldest employees. It's the young, single people or those that desperately need to keep their job that will move.

    4. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Possibly also to weed out some employees who weren't really doing any work, which happens plenty with any job that offers telecommuting.

      Nonsense - the "telecommuting" part of this statement is irrelevant. I've known numerous people, working in-office 100% of the time, who weren't doing much if any work. Whether in office or at home, some people will take advantage of bad management.

      Side note - the worst offender in this regard that I ever worked with is now a state senator here in Washington.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    5. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course, they are more likely to lose their best employees (regardless of age) in this process as those are the ones that can get a local job that is as good or better by this time tomorrow. The ones who will move for the job, esp. if generous relocation is not offered, are likely to be the least employable.

    6. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by grumpy_old_grandpa · · Score: 1

      > Companies will sometimes hire an 'axe man'

      Ah, "Up in the air", with George Clooney. Love that movie!

    7. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by epine · · Score: 1

      Lots of people tried to hang on and lost their shirts on moving expenses because the housing markets happened to be going the opposite way of the moves.

      Happened to be? Just as PetroCan is shifting shop?

      Housing prices track the revenue base of the community around them, outside of a few exceptional gardens of geriatric Eden.

    8. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by turkeydance · · Score: 1

      Jeff Smith was just fired. he came up with this co-location (work from office not home) mandate.

    9. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Of course, they are more likely to lose their best employees (regardless of age) in this process as those are the ones that can get a local job that is as good or better by this time tomorrow. The ones who will move for the job, esp. if generous relocation is not offered, are likely to be the least employable.

      IBM has done this before - ask the greybeards about the infamous "intelligence test downsizing" of 1986-87. Stress filtration is a terrible employee selection device. It's strange that companies are all too willing to stress all employees, selectively filtering out the ones with the most marketable skills (the ones most difficult to replace.).

    10. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the "Bobs" that Initech contracted to do that.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    11. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by green1 · · Score: 1

      This just in, when your performance metrics are unrelated to employee output, employee output suffers.

      Doesn't matter if it's in the office or remotely, if you aren't paying attention to employee output you're not properly managing your employees, and some of them will chose not to produce any actual value to your company.

      It's easy to manage by the time clock, but it doesn't tell you anything at all about how much value your employee adds.

    12. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by leonbev · · Score: 1

      Still, this is somewhat confusing. This is coming from the same company that was offering financial incentives TO give up your office and work from home just a few years ago.

      Of course, that might just have been a ploy to get people to make their jobs more easily outsourceable by insuring that they could be done remotely. We are talking about a company that was the inspiration for hundreds of Dilbert cartoons over the years.

    13. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not strange at all, once you see the big picture.

      The best employees have already made most of their contributions. Their best work is behind them, and now they are basically just charging interest on that with their expensive salaries. The not-so-good ones that are left behind don't have to do the same work, they just have to be able to maintain what is already there.

      Aside from that, the best employees are often not so much better than the rank-and-file. Their pride tells them otherwise, of course, but once they are gone the walls don't come tumbling down.

      At the end of they day, they are all just low-level functionaries, and are much more fungible than they like to believe.

    14. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You clearly have not had any experience reviewing the work of others.

    15. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Apparently erac never heard the old saw that went IBM means "I've Been Moved".

      Or the newer one that says IBM means "I've been replaced by someone overseas".

    16. Re:Not as hypocritical as it sounds... by ffkom · · Score: 2

      Corporations like IBM are not really keen to retain their best employees, they want large amounts of cheap, docile personnel. IBM is not selling lots of stuff because their stuff is great or made by brilliant minds, they sell lots of stuff because masses of mediocre buyers, who are not even skilled enough to determine the quality of the product/service, buy IBM because of their brand name.

  4. The real reason by tomhath · · Score: 4, Informative
    This article in The Register (yea, I know) suggests the real reason behind IBM's decisions:

    By requiring that workers move to hub cities such as San Francisco, Austin, or New York, IBM could both rid itself of older workers and make the jobs more appealing to younger, lower-salaried professionals...

    Coincidentally, an internal IBM video distributed to staff, and seen by The Register, advocates working in an office. Funnily enough, it features a lot of young folks...

    1. Re:The real reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not an attractive company to younger talent. Not desirable at all.

    2. Re:The real reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why do they think that requiring workers to move to cities with an exceptionally high cost of living would allow them to lower their salary requirements?

    3. Re:The real reason by geekmux · · Score: 2

      This article in The Register (yea, I know) suggests the real reason behind IBM's decisions:

      By requiring that workers move to hub cities such as San Francisco, Austin, or New York, IBM could both rid itself of older workers and make the jobs more appealing to younger, lower-salaried professionals...

      Coincidentally, an internal IBM video distributed to staff, and seen by The Register, advocates working in an office. Funnily enough, it features a lot of young folks...

      And how in the hell are you going to convince those "lower-salaried professionals" to work for slave wages when mandating they move to some of the most expensive places to live in the entire country?

      Talk about fucking shortsighted and ignorant.

    4. Re:The real reason by ferro+lad · · Score: 1

      Anyone still working at Big Blue is a fool! Anyone worth a damn left 10 years ago. I would not recommend them to any young workers, as it sucks.

    5. Re:The real reason by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      They're not an attractive company to younger talent. Not desirable at all.

      They're not attractive to older talent either. We have long memories of the many, many times IBM went on an axe wielding mission at the expense of employees.
         

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    6. Re:The real reason by MangoCats · · Score: 1

      Because kids don't know better and will share rent 4 ways in a 2 bedroom apartment.

    7. Re:The real reason by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      And how in the hell are you going to convince those "lower-salaried professionals" to work for slave wages when mandating they move to some of the most expensive places to live in the entire country?

      You don't. The idea is to get rid of old workers who've spent 15 years getting the house how they like it and have kids halfway through school of their own volition so it doesn't cost any redundancy payments. Then they pick up some new fresh grads with 733t p13rc1ngs at the new location.

      That or ship it all to Bongobongoland.

      Talk about fucking shortsighted and ignorant.

      I know you are.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    8. Re: The real reason by Phong · · Score: 1

      You'll note that those reasons are conjecture on the part of the article, but they do have some interesting thoughts on why IBM might be making the changes.

      --
      ..wayne..
    9. Re:The real reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just need to be one of their acquisitions, and have the CEO fight for almost all the same perks before handing the reigns over. Granted it'll probably go away in several years, but I'm not complaining ... *goes back to 0.25 Mountain Dew and free Doritos.*

    10. Re: The real reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is, probably IBM does not have any intersting "thoughts" aside the ones brought up by fellow OP parent posters.

  5. "Not as hypocritical as it sounds..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not hypocritical, but sneaky and dishonest?

    1. Re:"Not as hypocritical as it sounds..." by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Being a hypocrite isn't the worst thing.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  6. Song lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Won't find me practicing what I'm preaching
    Won't find me making no sacrifice

    1. Re:Song lyrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honeysuckle Jump by Artie Shaw

  7. IBM is extremely badly managed, apparently. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 4, Informative

    Story about IBM Chairman, President and CEO Ginni Rometty: At IBM's annual meeting last week, shareholders agreed with a proposal to increase her salary more than 60 percent to $33 million. (May 5, 2017)

    From the story:

    Her $33 million paycheck this year puts her ahead of tech CEOs like Microsoft's Satya Nadella ($18 million), who is successfully steering the company back towards growth, as well as leaders at fast-growing tech giants like Alphabet's Larry Page ($1), Apple's Tim Cook ($9 million) and Amazon's Jeff Bezos ($2 million).

    Rometty has presided over 20 straight quarters of declining revenue growth.

    Since she became CEO in January 2012, revenue has declined more than 26 percent on a trailing 12-month basis compared to the year before she took over, and net income has fallen nearly 27 percent.

    1. Re:IBM is extremely badly managed, apparently. by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Funny

      In fairness, you would have to pay me a lot more to work for IBM, too.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:IBM is extremely badly managed, apparently. by drew_kime · · Score: 1

      Rometty has presided over 20 straight quarters of declining revenue growth .

      Since she became CEO in January 2012, revenue has declined more than 26 percent on a trailing 12-month basis compared to the year before she took over, and net income has fallen nearly 27 percent.

      Has revenue declined, or has revenue growth declined? For a mature company, declining growth isn't a death knell. Declining revenue is.

      --
      Nope, no sig
    3. Re:IBM is extremely badly managed, apparently. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Satya Nadella ($18 million), who is successfully steering the company back towards growth.

      Ah, now I know the story is complete fiction

    4. Re:IBM is extremely badly managed, apparently. by haruchai · · Score: 2

      Rometty has presided over 20 straight quarters of declining revenue growth .

      Since she became CEO in January 2012, revenue has declined more than 26 percent on a trailing 12-month basis compared to the year before she took over, and net income has fallen nearly 27 percent.

      Has revenue declined, or has revenue growth declined? For a mature company, declining growth isn't a death knell. Declining revenue is.

      See for yourself at https://ycharts.com/companies/...

      Not a pretty picture in any shade of Blue.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    5. Re:IBM is extremely badly managed, apparently. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      which amuses me with how the stock price hasn't cratered equally in those 5 years.

      Revenue AND net income are steadily declining in a clear trend.

    6. Re:IBM is extremely badly managed, apparently. by Thangodin · · Score: 1

      Stock price is maintained by buying back stock, not by performance. Salaries remain high, but the company is shrinking rapidly, so there is less stock, but less company. IBM is dying, but you wouldn't know it looking as the Nasdaq.

      IBM is basically a software graveyard, much like Computer Associates was, but more upscale. The business model for a software graveyard is as follows: buy a second tier competitor in a business software field that has a large installation base (the first tier will be too expensive and not willing to sell.) Squeeze out all employees you consider to be redundant, keeping enough to provide a few new versions. You have a captured clientele, so do just enough to keep them interested. This will pay your original investment and then some.

      When the captured clientele start leaving in droves as the software starts to give off a bad smell, sell the desiccated corpse to China or India. Get your employees to train their replacements, keep a small selection of that group that you consider worth salvaging (if they are willing to move).

      Rinse and repeat. This is a policy of hemorrhage, but as long as you use profits to buy stock, the shareholders won't care. And because only shareholders matter now, eventually all American companies will cease to exist, except for the banks, who can change their base of operations in minutes.

    7. Re:IBM is extremely badly managed, apparently. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Story about IBM Chairman, President and CEO Ginni Rometty: At IBM's annual meeting last week, shareholders agreed with a proposal to increase her salary more than 60 percent to $33 million. (May 5, 2017)

      From the story:

      Her $33 million paycheck this year puts her ahead of tech CEOs like Microsoft's Satya Nadella ($18 million), who is successfully steering the company back towards growth, as well as leaders at fast-growing tech giants like Alphabet's Larry Page ($1), Apple's Tim Cook ($9 million) and Amazon's Jeff Bezos ($2 million).

      Rometty has presided over 20 straight quarters of declining revenue growth.

      Since she became CEO in January 2012, revenue has declined more than 26 percent on a trailing 12-month basis compared to the year before she took over, and net income has fallen nearly 27 percent.

      Story about IBM Chairman, President and CEO Ginni Rometty: At IBM's annual meeting last week, shareholders agreed with a proposal to increase her salary more than 60 percent to $33 million. (May 5, 2017)

      From the story:

      Her $33 million paycheck this year puts her ahead of tech CEOs like Microsoft's Satya Nadella ($18 million), who is successfully steering the company back towards growth, as well as leaders at fast-growing tech giants like Alphabet's Larry Page ($1), Apple's Tim Cook ($9 million) and Amazon's Jeff Bezos ($2 million).

      Rometty has presided over 20 straight quarters of declining revenue growth.

      Since she became CEO in January 2012, revenue has declined more than 26 percent on a trailing 12-month basis compared to the year before she took over, and net income has fallen nearly 27 percent.

      Remove Rometty,Remove Rometty,Remove Rometty,Remove Rometty,Remove Rometty,Remove Rometty,Remove Rometty,Remove Rometty,Remove

  8. Big Blue Brother: Do as we say... by ilsaloving · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Do as we say, not as we do. Because we have some great software to sell your telecommuting workforce.

  9. Big Blue WFH Policy by cogeek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    During my time at Big Blue, we asked to be allowed to work from home one day per week. We were told that if we were saying our jobs could be done from any location that we needed to keep in mind that our jobs could be done from ANY location. At that point our entire team agreed that our jobs required us being at our desk 5-7 days a week. Go Big Blue!

    1. Re:Big Blue WFH Policy by Dog-Cow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A job workable from anywhere is not synonymous with a job workable by anyone. The more companies that think otherwise, the more companies will slowly fail.

    2. Re:Big Blue WFH Policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > We were told that if we were saying our jobs could be done from any location that we needed to keep in mind that our jobs could be done from ANY location.

      The motivation behind the answer is a little unclear. If the answer came from HR or up high in the corporate hierarchy, it was a threat to the get team to back off. If it came from mid-level management, it could be that the manager in charge was sensing a vulnerability in the team to being cut, and tried not to give upper management ideas.

    3. Re:Big Blue WFH Policy by Junta · · Score: 1

      That's true, but also, a job that can find 20% opportunity to work remote still means you are working 80% there. So even if you can't overcome the misconception that you can just boil down everything to a math problem of headcount and one human is the same as any other human, you can point out that the vast majority of time is local.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    4. Re:Big Blue WFH Policy by Tesen · · Score: 1

      During my time at Big Blue, we asked to be allowed to work from home one day per week. We were told that if we were saying our jobs could be done from any location that we needed to keep in mind that our jobs could be done from ANY location. At that point our entire team agreed that our jobs required us being at our desk 5-7 days a week. Go Big Blue!

      At which time, I would have told them "Aboslutely! I am working from home all the time! thanks for pointing out I do not need to sit in the office."

      You gave up something because you were scared of a job loss. Did you learn from this experience?

    5. Re:Big Blue WFH Policy by cogeek · · Score: 1

      Yes, I learned that shortly after I left my entire department was outsourced to India and Pakistan. We delayed what was already coming down the pipe for a few months, but the writing was on the wall. It's not paranoia if what you fear actually happens.

  10. Do What I Say!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do what I say, not what I do!

  11. Re: But really, the question is.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Donald?

  12. they're cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    They're cheap.

    If they TRULY wanted to lower salary requirements, they should move to Smallville, KS. I heard it was a super place to live :)

    1. Re:they're cheap by sconeu · · Score: 1

      It's too expensive for the company (not the employees). Lexcorp has a monopoly on all the real estate there.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  13. Unfortunately, for IBM . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    . . . they spent the last decade closing smaller sites world-wide, and consolidating everything in giga-sites. Part of this action was changing the office space into "e-workplaces" or "flexible offices". This basically meant tearing out the cubicle dividers, leaving a big full-floor room filled with just empty desks.

    Employees get a locker room type closet with a trolley suitcase like thingy to stash all their junk that workers usually leave on their desks. IBM employees are not allowed to leave any items on the desk, since it is not their desk. Every morning they play "musical chairs" and everyone tries to grab a desk in a good position. If you are a programmer and need to concentrate in silence . . . and a salesperson sits down next to you doing "LOC = Lines Of Calls" instead of "LOC = Lines Of Code" like you . . . well, that is just tough shit for you.

    IBM managers know that this is a stupid idea, but the goal was to save money, and that trumps everything. So they tried to sweeten the deal a bit by letting folks work at home. Basically, IBM has outsourced its office space building services to its employees. Well, guess what . . . if you can't at least put a picture of your wife and kids on your desk . . . you don't get "attached" to your "place of work". You also don't feel very much attached to the company either . . . so guess what that does to turnover rates.

    So now, IBM wants to lure its employees back to work at IBM locations. But too many don't even have an office to go back to. If IBM wants to haul them back in, all they need to do is give their employees real offices to go back to.

    These IBM e-places are just as pleasant to visit as a trip to Dachau: very loud, greying chipped concrete colored paint, rickety desks and chairs that make IKEA furniture look like luxury items.

    Of course, they can always threaten to fire the employees, if they don't come back. Which is probably going to happen, since even Warren Buffet threw in the towel, and declared IBM to be a basket case. They desperately need another Lou Gerstner, to turn them back around again.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Unfortunately, for IBM . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure the exaggerations here are intentional, but.. as an IBM employee, I can say that not every office environment is as you describe. The "e-places" you're describing are internally called "agile workspaces". At my site, they're not nearly as bad as you describe - they are too loud and open for my tastes, but the Dachau reference is ridiculous. Many cubicle office spaces remain; I've been in a cube for years, and I don't foresee that changing soon.

    2. Re: Unfortunately, for IBM . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lou be rather is the one who started the practices that led directly to the current situation...

    3. Re:Unfortunately, for IBM . . . by avandesande · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What sad times we are in when we are proud to have our own cubicle...

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    4. Re:Unfortunately, for IBM . . . by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      The last CEO planned to peak IBM revenue. He sold this plan to the board and worked it into the very blood of IBM, what he didn't tell them that he wasn't just going to peak revenue but that it was genuinely going to peak and then start to decline. He create hostile work policies to ensure high turn over rates and now they are trying to drive all the older people away, you know the ones with all the institutional knowledge that create the backbone of knowledge that brings them customers and replace them all with a bunch of college grads that don't know their ass from their chair.

      The plan all along was to peak revenue and dividends at the highest possible, but that peak is a true peak, not a peak and level off. On top of this they want to outsource as much as possible and hand all that institutional knowledge to a bunch of non-Americans offshore. Anyone invested in IBM should be invested short because they are in for a long slow drop and eventually a sectioning out and selling off of all their assets. IBM as a company won't be around in 2050.

      That's what happens when you let next quarters revenue be more important than next years growth.

    5. Re:Unfortunately, for IBM . . . by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "So they tried to sweeten the deal a bit by letting folks work at home."

      Except even this isn't really a sweetener. Having a consistent fraction of working form home each day allows overbooking the desks. I.E. if on average each employee works from home one day per week, an office can be assigned a desk count that is 80% of the assigned employee count. Then you get to discover that wildly different distributions can have the same average, as my previous employer did.

    6. Re:Unfortunately, for IBM . . . by Doke · · Score: 1

      That sounds horribly like the US government programming sweatshop in Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson. That was supposed to be a dystopian warning, not a how-to guide. I hope they don't regulate the toilet paper too.

  14. should not surprise anybody. by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    IBM is no doubt just doing this in America and maybe Europe. They are hoping to gut the western employees. That is why I no longer even consider an IBM product or service.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  15. Re:I never had trouble finding a job as a programm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "AMERIKA" hmmm well that gives one perspective no?

  16. IBM is Irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And this is why IBM has had 20 straight quarters of decline. From a prestigous and championed American employer to a run of the mill outsourcing company. Ginni Rometty is worthless and needs to go.

    Oh, and Watson is just a marketing term used to sell overpromising and underdelivering half-baked AI.

  17. Depends on your goals... by Junta · · Score: 1

    If your goal is employee retention and attracting talent, then flexibility on remote work is a valuable perk. This is pretty much the entirety of what is being said, that the *employees* like being able to work remote (which of *course* we do, we like more options)

    If your goal is assuring your team is the most effective, and you have little to no concern about labor shortage or retention, then an employee who can work in the office at least *some* of the time is invaluable.

    Doing meetings remote can work ok, but it still pales in comparison in having everyone sitting in the same room. Even if you aren't *explicitly* marking some time as collaborative, the ability to turn your head and speak is great.

    Being videoconferenced in during the whole day is just too bizarre and seemingly obtrusive. A text chat is suitably unobtrusive, but can drag on. Also if you see someone, you get a sense whether they are really busy or maybe they have some time to help out.

    The truth is a balance is best, some home time for a comfortable working environment and at least for *some*, fewer distractions than at work. Some time at work for collaboration, and for *some*, fewer distractions than at home.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  18. no balls by tatman · · Score: 1

    Typical big corporation. Probably a couple big paying customers complained so they decided to capitulate.
    The same thing has happened in my office. We had work from home policy. One customer visited the office and said "how can you get anything done with no one here". The policy was reversed. No consideration for the benefits of work from home or justification that we got at least as much done (if not more). Customer says!
    Tripping over dimes to pick up nickels.

    --
    I've always said English was my second language. Had Romeo and Juliet been written in C, I might have understood it.
  19. I have interviewed IBM employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These are folks leaving IBM. And they are all fed up with IBM. They want out. It seems that maybe IBM has some form of hold on these folks because they say very little about IBM as a company. They usually say they are looking for something outside of IBM.

  20. no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


     

  21. Poor management at Microsoft, also. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    "Satya Nadella ($18 million), who is successfully steering the company back towards growth."

    Ah, now I know the story is complete fiction

    I had a negative reaction to that, also. Maybe Nadella is merely not as destructive as Steve Ballmer. Ballmer was rated the worst CEO in the United States.

    Quote from an article in Forbes Magazine about Steve Ballmer: "Without a doubt, Mr. Ballmer is the worst CEO of a large publicly traded American company today." Another quote: "The reach of his bad leadership has extended far beyond Microsoft when it comes to destroying shareholder value -- and jobs." (May 12, 2012)

    1. Re:Poor management at Microsoft, also. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, except Nadella is the real deal to most employees at MS who hated Ballmer (as far as I understand--have a family member who has been with MS for 18 years).

  22. IBMer for 4 years - Ran screaming away by Seven+Spirals · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I worked at IBM for about four years from 2000-2004. I have friends that just left about a year ago. They had begun the India-shift at that time already, but didn't have any W@H policy. The key thing to understand about IBM is that it's like a small city. They have more than 300,000 employees world wide. Like all cities there are good and bad parts of town. You work at Watson? Okay that's upscale. You work for IBM Global Services as a NOC engineer, sysadmin, or Java dev? That's the slums. If you work for IBM "true blue" you'd probably have an easier time W@H in the past than a red-headed stepchild working at IBM Global Services. The clients in IBM GS are the table pounding types and mostly in financial industries. They'd just have to complain to the sales reps that they heard a dog in the background of a con-call and W@H ends for everyone. I saw incidents occur like that while at IBM. You can also bet your ass that the Ph.D researchers at Watson who have any W@H privs are keeping them. IBM was always scared shitless to upset that apple cart. When I used to do security scans at IBM, those guys would always get a pass, no matter what. Bottom line: it's where you are at in IBM that will ultimately matter, I promise.

    1. Re:IBMer for 4 years - Ran screaming away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bottom line: it's where you are at in IBM that will ultimately matter, I promise.

      Mod parent up. If your product/division is profitable quarter after quarter, year after year - you are generally left the hell alone. Don't break what's working. More commonly what's done is the successful/profitable products will be shifted around internally to help massage financial numbers. Again - leave it the hell alone if its working and making others look better.

      Posting as an AC for obvious reasons.

  23. Avoid remote jobs by currently_awake · · Score: 1

    If you can do the job from home, then so can a team in India working for 1/10 the price. Remote working is a job killer, avoid at all costs.

  24. I'll scratch your back by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    you scratch mine. You know they're all on each other's boards, right? Why American is so adverse to recognizing their true ruling class is beyond me. Instead we waste our time worrying about "Big Government" and ignore the biggest government in the world: The Mega Corps.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:I'll scratch your back by Thangodin · · Score: 2

      Funny you should mention that. I think I've figured out why that is.

      The greatest threat to democracy and the rule of the people is, and always has been, disparity of power. In the 18th century, when the American War of Independence happened (not actually a revolution, because revolutions are regime changes, and the same people who ran America in 1870 still ran it in 1880), the most powerful people in Europe were the kings and the aristocrats. They were the state (Louis of France said it literally: "I am the state!") As with Rome, where the democratic senate had been overpowered by the rule of the Emperors, the greatest threat in the 18th century was the aristocracy, who were, at that time, the state.

      But the men who established the American system forgot the lessons of the first democracy. Athens was a democracy, and it was destroyed not by kings and nobles, but by the Oligarchs (Athens was where the word originated), and they were not aristocrats, but merchants who came to own everything. In fact, Greece's problems to this day are that it still has laws that recognize oligarchs, who pay almost no taxes. Onassis was an oligarch.

      The totemic worship of the founding documents of the United States means that the American people no longer recognize them for what they were: living documents that were hotly debated and considered deeply flawed even by the men who approved them. And it also means that Americans seem to be incapable of recognizing that these men made what is now an anachronistic mistake. The ruling class today is no longer the lords and kings, but the oligarchs. These are the threats to democracy.

      But freedom has become a worship word. Remember that Star Trek episode? American's adhere blindly to a 200+ year old doctrine only because they are old, without understand the context of the time, or why they might be wrong. And so, a new order of aristocrats have come to take your freedom, and you will hand it to them, because you believe that such a threat can only come from the state.

  25. Hypocrites! IBM Sucks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I worked for IBM for 4 years, they are a bunch of hypocrites. They tell their customers one thing then do something else. Their infrastructure is so shitty nothing works and they have the gall to try to advise other companies on how to run. One of the biggest hypocrisies is the fact that they say they support LGBT but have a major campus in Raleigh, NC and say they obey all local laws such as the discriminatory bathroom law. They are run by a bunch of sales weasels that will say anything to get that dollar and make their quarterly bonuses but don't give a shit about their customers once they have that sale. And they couldn't care less about their employees, they actually think management does real work when all they do is babysit pissed off customers. Managers get promotions and raises all the time but the real workers get diddly squat! I would never recommend working at IBM to anyone!

  26. IBM is Pockets of different by JeremyDavis · · Score: 1

    Working for big blue some commenters are quite right if you add "in pockets" or areas like we add in bed on fortune cookies. It's so big and so many divisions. We have some strong NA people and they care, but a lot of upside down pyramid and thin investment into a lot of things. But I work remotely and unless in services options are restricted now. But even though I might need to change jobs or cities eventually there are areas where the remote spread combined with poor tools and processes and poor management or too over extended management and too lean on funds is a Stiffler. Obviously like we humans do, they went with the simplest to understand solution to the multi faceted issue. FYI anyone in PHX looking for a top performer let me know ;)