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Ask Slashdot: How To Improve At Work When You're Not Getting Feedback?

An anonymous reader writes: Too many managers avoid giving any kind of feedback, regardless of whether it's positive or negative. If you work for a boss who doesn't provide feedback, it's easy to feel rudderless. It can be especially disorienting if you're new in the role, new to the company, or a recent graduate new to the workforce. In the absence of specific guidance, is there any way to know what the average boss would want you to work on? What would you advise someone who works in IT, engineering, coding, designing or any similar industry?

26 of 222 comments (clear)

  1. No need by Mycroft-X · · Score: 4, Funny

    No feedback means you are awesome and there is no room for improvement. If people have a problem with you it's just that -- their problem. If you are the problem they'll tell you in a clear. actionable and constructive way.

    1. Re:No need by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No it doesn't.

      "No feedback," means something different to every relationship at work and is based on the nature of both the superior and the subordinate.

      Terrible manager, no feedback could mean that the manager doesn't actually want to do their job. I've seen this firsthand, and the problem lingered for many years. It was made worse because the manager was friends with his boss, so his boss didn't bother to push to uncover what was going on in the section.

      Could easily also mean that the manager is scared of repercussions for doing the job, or feels that it's just easier to ignore the problems. This can be the end-result when the previous kind of terrible manager doesn't document or do honest evaluations of employees. It can also play into problems with employees that belong to suspect classes- if the boss doesn't document problems with employees generally, then it's much harder to get rid of problem employees, and it's even harder if the problem employee happens to belong to a suspect class. That documentation on employee performance and a paper-trail of guidance and review is what allows an employer to promote or terminate without having to face accusations of discrimination.

      There's only so much an employee can do to get feedback, and the myriad of factors (everything from the nature of the job to the physical layout of the employee work area relative to the boss) determines what that employee can try. I know I can walk over to my boss' office to talk, and I usually do talk a couple of times a week to go over projects and timetables, etc. I also document by-email, we're required to submit status logs of what we've been doing anyway so I just fill mine out stream-of-consciousness as I work and edit down to something usable at the end of the week, keeps him informed so he knows what's going on.

      Try to communicate with the boss, but it's as much on the boss as it is on the worker.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:No need by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

      Probably true. Most managers only give negative feedback.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    3. Re:No need by tlambert · · Score: 2

      Asking for a raise can easily get you feedback.

      FTFY. You're welcome.

    4. Re:No need by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you're not getting yelled at or fired, you're doing just fine.

      ...or you're stagnating, and 10 years later when you finally get laid off due to cuts from high above, you'll find yourself hopelessly outdated and lost as hell in job interviews.

      I guess the point is, it's not simple validation sometimes, it's mentorship, it's a chance to let the boss know what you're up to so he/she can put you on interesting problems later down the road, or even put you on to opportunities that may come along which are more suited to your desired career path.

      Any boss who is non-communicative, let alone not do any of these things for their employees, is completely worthless.

      I mean shit man, I don't beg for daily praise/criticism, but I do want to know at least once in awhile if my initiatives and work are truly taking the company where it needs to go...

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    5. Re:No need by fabriciom · · Score: 2

      If you work for me and ask me for a raise you will get some feedback but I will also start looking for a replacement. First off if the raise is approved you might not handle the added workload and will want to leave or if its not approved and you start looking for another job. In any case your replacement contingency plan will be set in motion and unless you are awesome at your job you will probably end up getting canned because of the added attention and because you are obviously not too happy with your job.

    6. Re:No need by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      First off if the raise is approved you might not handle the added workload and will want to leave or if its not approved and you start looking for another job.

      That's the same canard I heard at Cisco when I asked about training. My manager could approve training to help me do my job better, but then I'll used the training to get another job at a competitor and make him look bad. Never mind that a lack training was why most employees trained themselves on Cisco certifications and get a job somewhere else. Corporate dysfunction at its best.

    7. Re:No need by Frobnicator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the difficult thing. It is all about the relationship and the environment.

      In bad environments asking for a raise gets you fired. Asking for training (even if the company says they encourage it) gets you fired. Doing anything ambitious gets you fired, or have the things taken without credit. This type of company also fires people immediately if they make a mistake that has a cost.

      In good environments asking for a raise starts a discussion that can get you money. Asking for training (even when the company has never encouraged it) can get one person or even a team of people some training. Being ambitious is rewarded openly and and given cautious praise: that in addition to doing the regular duties you also did the thing on the side. This type of company generally retains people who make costly mistakes who are also contrite and appear to learn the lesson; leaders know the company pays for the learning experience either way, the question is if they will retain the student of life's hard lessons.

      The first type of company is the one to flee. The second is the type to cherish. If you don't know what to look for it is easy to miss the signs when finding the job.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    8. Re:No need by Anon-Admin · · Score: 2

      You sound like a boss I used to have.

      He once told me "I can replace you at moments notice!" He was surprised when I said "Let's see if you can." and started packing up my desk.

      The outcome was,
      In 48 hours I had two job offers on the table.
      In 6 months the position was still open and unfilled.

      An Asshole boss will always be an asshole boss. It is best to simply find a new boss that is not an asshole.

    9. Re:No need by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      If you work for me and ask me for a raise you will get some feedback but I will also start looking for a replacement.

      I already know what kind of people work for you: the kind that are too afraid of change to leave. Anyone good with a modicum of self-confidence has already left, and your office is a soul-sucking place to be. Experienced, skillful people can screen you out a mile away, and don't make it through the job-hiring process.

      There's some feedback, and it's free. You didn't even have to pay me.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    10. Re:No need by daveywest · · Score: 2

      Jr. Manger: What if we train them and they leave? CEO: What if we don't and they stay?

    11. Re: No need by fabriciom · · Score: 2

      What you are talking about might happen in a mom and pop type company. But in a mid to large company NO one is irreplaceable that's how they got to be that size.

    12. Re:No need by mattwarden · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Here is a secret: your boss is not there for you. They are there for the company. They exist not to mentor you or help your career but to get what the company needs out of you and mitigate company risks like you leaving. If the manager decides it is in the company's best interest to release you rather than reform you, that's what she should do. If it's not in the company's interest for you to grow, you shouldn't expect your boss to help you grow.

      I have many underlings ask for me to lay out a career path for them. To me this is an admission that they are passive actors in their career, floating along and putting in time and expecting others to figure out the next step for them. And I will do so, in some cases, depending on how much the company needs that employee to stick around even if in another position.

      Another secret: your boss is regularly asked how he/she has planned for you leaving voluntarily.

    13. Re:No need by TWX · · Score: 2

      Not all companies share your mindset, thank god.

      Many companies do look at the production that the employee brings as an asset, rather than only looking at the cost in wages that an employee draws as a detriment. Since the corporate structure between the end-worker and the top people doesn't usually itself produce anything profit-making, it is in the company's interest to attempt to mentor employees. It makes the employees feel more valued. It may provide more skill to the employee so they produce disproportionately more than it costs to train or mentor. It may help the organization evaluate if an employee can provide even more value if duties are tailored to that employee's strengths, if the organization can afford to make such structural changes.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    14. Re:No need by Penguinisto · · Score: 2

      They exist not to mentor you or help your career but to get what the company needs out of you and mitigate company risks like you leaving.

      Without growth, the competent employees will *always* leave sooner than you think, and you're soon only left with the incompetents. Good luck with that.

      Also, there is no need to do any part of the employee's job (laying out a career). There is a need however to discover what the employee think his/her career should be, and if you're a competent manager, you would want to be the first to find out (which incidentally helps out with that whole 'is my employee going to leave soon, and if so, when?' bit.)

      And, surprise surprise, feedback helps tune the employee into doing what the job requires, and help get them to better do what the company needs to do.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  2. Do what you think is needed to be done by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oddly enough, the stuff I get the most praise for is stuff that I simply started doing because it filled a void that I felt was present. Full disclosure: I have a cool boss.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    1. Re:Do what you think is needed to be done by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      Finding the jobs that no one else wants to do is a good way to gain recognition.

    2. Re:Do what you think is needed to be done by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

      That's likely to be the stuff I will praise the most for as well... both because it is most likely to be "above and beyond" and because it's apparent to everyone that the void is filled, but unexpectedly.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  3. Leave. by OmniGeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If your boss isn't communicating with you, try to communicate with him/her as to what you need and why. Be respectful and open, but direct; you're trying to improve your working relationship. If that doesn't work, move to a department that has a more communicative manager, and failing that, just bail as gracefully as posible. That workplace isn't going to be a good place for you to work in the long run, and life's too short if you have any other choice.

    --

    "My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
  4. This is an ovbious question... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I get feedback from Slashdot. For example, as an IT Support contractor who makes $50K+ in Silicon Valley, the feedback I got is: I don't make enough money to afford the American Dream, I'm a moocher because I work in government IT, I'm not a real IT person since didn't graduate from a CS program with $100K in student loans, I'm fat, ugly and retarded, and, worse, I'm not even ashamed of being fat..

    1. Re:This is an ovbious question... by Drethon · · Score: 2

      I get feedback from Slashdot. For example, as an IT Support contractor who makes $50K+ in Silicon Valley, the feedback I got is: I don't make enough money to afford the American Dream, I'm a moocher because I work in government IT, I'm not a real IT person since didn't graduate from a CS program with $100K in student loans, I'm fat, ugly and retarded, and, worse, I'm not even ashamed of being fat..

      And have your formed a plan of action around the feedback?

    2. Re:This is an ovbious question... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      Why would I want programmers doing QA?

      Test-driven development. You should try it. I would have written fewer bug reports as a video game tester and lead tester video game tester at Accolade/Infogrames/Atari (same company, different owners, multiple personality disorder), and as a tester for Fujitsu and Sony.

      Test-driven development (TDD) is a software development process that relies on the repetition of a very short development cycle: requirements are turned into very specific test cases, then the software is improved to pass the new tests, only. This is opposed to software development that allows software to be added that is not proven to meet requirements.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development

      You seem to spend all your business hours on slashdot writing comments and having your employer pay for it.

      As both an employee and entrepreneur, there's only one metric that matters: Do I get my numbers in each and every day? Yes, I do.

      I am sure this is what your whole life has been - sticking out of the crowd, in a bad way.

      No. I'm the guy who doesn't stand out in the crowd, surrounded by bigger and louder people.

      What topic was everyone discussing here again?

      Feedback I get from Slashdot. Thank you for your feedback. ;)

  5. Did it ever occur to you that... by diesalesmandie · · Score: 2

    Your manager many be busy and just doesn't have the time? Maybe the manager is hands off and trusts you to fill your own voids? (very possible if you are a knowledge worker) Just because they are your boss doesn't mean you have to reduce everything that could be possibly interpreted as something negative to be just that (although in a lot of situations you would be right in doing so). If you care to check, you will find that the world doesn't revolve around you and that managers are people at the end of the day, they are not omniscient. On the other end of the scale, constant feedback can be a symptom of micro managing...be careful what you wish for.

    --
    This is my sig, there are many like it but this one is mine
  6. Good feedback requires expertise by hackel · · Score: 2

    While I get the occasional "great job" from management at my job, that kind of feedback is largely meaningless. In order to give good feedback, you have to actually be *knowledgeable* in the field in question. In the case of programming, you actually have to review the code and understand it, including design and testing patterns, etc. In my company, that has never happened. No one ever looks at the code I produce, and there are only two other people who could even make sense of it. I think this is a huge problem.

  7. You can't "improve" by zifn4b · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Improve" in the sense of working for an employer means better meeting the employer's expectations. If the employer is not providing expectations or feedback, you are trying to be clairvoyant which is not possible. One of my parents was like this. They would expect me to do things a certain way or at certain times but never inform me of that except by severely punishing me for not reading their minds. That's a toxic situation.

    My advice, unless your employer doesn't question your performance and you can do whatever you like, leave. During the exit interview tell HR this is the main reason you are leaving. Hopefully they will take the feedback to heart but often employers don't because they are more often than not egotistical and believe they are infallible not open to criticism.

    Just so you know, there is a cognitive bias whereby people think that everyone thinks the same and therefore they ought to arrive at the same conclusions, you know the "right" and "only" ones because you know there is a right way and everything is the wrong way (black and white thinking). They can't compute why someone wouldn't arrive at the "right way" independently other than there is something wrong with you and you are defective in some way. These people have the emotional intelligence skills of a rock and you don't want to work for them or be in any kind of dealing with them. They will make you miserable.

    --
    We'll make great pets
  8. As a manager... by WolfgangVL · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have personally fielded this question from my team. On that occasion, I reminded them that when I say, "great job", I mean it, and when I say, "You missed this one, lets try $colleague's idea this time." I am not just being a persnickety asshole boss, I am providing feedback, and directing a project.

    (I think) At least half the problem today is that the younger generation no longer hears the real praise from their superiors for what it is, because they've spent their lives hearing these things for simply meeting the standard. I don't pass out high fives at the water cooler for showing up to work on time, but I do pass-out pitchers of beer and pizza when we complete a project within spec and on-time.

    When you're late on your side of the hardware, and the whole team is off grumbling between themselves while doing make-work for other departments, I'm going to point out a few things you may want to do differently next time. I'm going to remind you that this is not the way we roll around here. And I'm going to ask you if you think somebody else would have been a better fit for your responsibilities. Again this is not me being a dick boss, it's feedback, and guidance.

    If I see a problem with the way things are being done, the way you carry yourself, or the way resources are being applied, it's my job to fix it. Part of that job is making those responsible aware of the problem, as well as solicit solutions from them and avoid these problems on future projects. On Thursday, when I *ask* you to change the shirt you've been wearing since Monday, I am not *coming down on you*, or *being a dick boss*, but providing clear direction. If you're so dense you have to ask me why, (this has happened) I'm going to tell you the odor is distracting, and the catchup stain on the collar is annoying as hell. This is the feedback that is remembered. THIS is what he will tell his spouse tonight over dinner, and this is what he is going to remember when review time comes around.

    Unfortunately, "Team, we did it again, $client loves our work, and word is they are already bidding our next project. Wonderful work guys, keep this shit up. Anybody wanna join me after work this Friday at $pizzajoint? My treat...." Is considered standard for every project. It aint, It's positive feedback, as well as opportunity to debrief, and decompress, as well as for one on one time with me, over a beer, as friends and colleagues; instead of boss and subordinate.

    My boss is counting on me to both guide the teams project to completion, and keep my guys happy. I try to do both. If I don't, he's gonna ask me why not, and provide a few suggestions himself (misguided as they may be) That does not mean I'm on the hook to present a gold medal for meeting the standard, high school was a long time ago.

    --
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