Microsoft Thinks USB-C Isn't Ready For the Mainstream (digitaltrends.com)

When Microsoft unveiled the Surface Laptop last week, it left many customers and members of the press scratching their heads over its lack of a USB Type-C port. According to general manager of Surface Engineering, Pete Kyriacou, Microsoft seems to think that the technology isn't ready for the mainstream. Digital Trends reports: Microsoft does not want customers to deal with the various Type-C cables, underwhelming chargers, all the adapters, and the third-party Type-C docks. That is why the Surface Laptop features only one USB 3.1 Gen1 Type-A port, one headphone jack, one Mini DisplayPort connector, and the Surface Connect port. Simplicity. That latter connection is how customers can "safely" expand their Surface device experience. Microsoft's $200 Microsoft Surface Dock adds two Mini DisplayPort connectors, one gigabit Ethernet port, four USB 3.1 Gen1 Type-A ports, and one audio out port. The dock connects to a compatible Surface device via Microsoft's proprietary Surface Connect port. Right now, it works with the Surface Pro 3, Surface Pro 4, and Surface Book but the Surface Laptop will undoubtedly be added soon. While limiting a Surface device's connectivity seems like forcing customers into purchasing the dock, Microsoft sees this setup as brand stability. Customers won't get ticked at Microsoft because they are confused about the different types of cables, chargers, and so on. Microsoft is controlling the end-to-end experience and there is nothing wrong with that.

Comments

Seems like Microsoft isn't ready for USB-C

[zerofoo]

I have zero issue with my nexus devices and my MacBook - both use USB-C and I have yet to find a cable or device that doesn't perform as intended on any of the devices.

The various flavors of USB are enough to drive someone to drink. USB-C is a welcome change that actually fulfills the promise of the word "Universal" in USB.

I think Microsoft is just chickening out here.

Re:Seems like Microsoft isn't ready for USB-C

[Ark42]

I can't get my Nexus to charge 50% of the time when I plug it into a FULL external battery, because of USB-C. 50% of the time, My Nexus 5x thinks that the most logical default would be for the phone (at 15% battery left) to use it's remaining battery to charge the external battery, which is surely around 95% or more full already.
The whole bidirectional aspect of USB-C seems like a total failure to me. I have to remember to unlock my phone, pull down the menu at the, and change the charge direction. There is no way to set a default apparently, and no way to determine WHICH direction it will start with each time I plug it in.

Re:Seems like Microsoft isn't ready for USB-C

[ArmoredDragon]

Aside from Thunderbolt (which is pointless with USB 3.1), micro USB already does all of that. The only benefit USB-C has is that it can be connected upside down, which isn't enough to outweigh the benefits of micro USB.

MicroUSB does NOT provide video capability, unless you use one of those crappy dongles that does video compression. USB-C not only does actual full bandwidth video, but in the Thunderbolt 3 configuration it even provides a friggin PCI-e interface. They even make external GPU enclosures that allow you to run an actual desktop GPU on a laptop if you'd like, and it works pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Not only that, but in terms of physical durability, USB-C will WAY outlast MicroUSB.

Re:Seems like Microsoft isn't ready for USB-C

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure you could send a 1080p@24fps video over USB...
1920*1080*3*24*8 = 11.9Gbit/s raw video data.. then you will most likely add a few percent on top of that in protocol-overhead so let's call it 12Gbit/s required for 1080p video.

Now lets see for USB speeds:
USB 2 - 480Mbit/s
USB 3.0 - 5Mbit/s -- Aka "SuperSpeed"
USB 3.1 - 10 Gbit/s

To reach the "SuperSpeed" you need at least 4 differential pairs in the cable (8 seperate physical leads in the cable) and then you need cables for power and such too. This is nothing microusb and all the older cables/connectors have..

Thunderbolt v1 - 2 10Gbit/s lanes. (20Gbit in total)
Thunderbolt v2 - 20Gbit/s (did not bother to research this.. probably per lane.)
Thunderbolt v3 - 40Gbit/s

So try to send anything above 720p on that USB 3.1 connection.

And then i had a look at your product-examples:
MHL : This one is not USB. This is just a way to bring out a custom datachannel from the phone via re-purposing an existing connector.
SlimPort : Same as the MHL..

They are both just a one-way displayport output that can be used over any 5-pin connection, and the only 5-pin output available on a phone is the USB-port.... But this is NOT USB... it's just repurposing an existing connector for it's own protocol.

Oh and there are USB to external PCI-e converters too. They've been around for a long time.

Yea, running at 10Gbit/s best-case, 5Gbit/s in many cases as long as you have the right cables with you and then for most people those would still run at 480Mbit/s or slower... If you look at the chinese crap that exist for this (what most people buy) the specs are crap and just provides the functionality of connecting a pci-e device to USB without considering performance.
Try fitting a uncompressed 1080p video over a "PCI-e -> USB 3.1 (10Gbit/s) -> Host" chain.. Would be even more overhead there too.

Re:Seems like Microsoft isn't ready for USB-C

[AmiMoJo]

You either have the world's worst external battery or are plugging it in to the wrong port. The way USB power supply works, the device has to detect that it is in host mode and negotiate with the device receiving charge before it will supply more than 100mA.

So in order for your problem to manifest, your external battery must be acting as a USB device rather than as dumb charger or host. That suggests you either plugged in to the charge port instead of the output port, or the battery has a really really really terrible USB controller in it.

USB-C is no more bidirectional than any other variant of USB. It's all negotiated over the USB protocol, just the same as older USB plugs and sockets.

Dear Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

No one cares what Microsoft "wants" or "thinks" anymore

Fried Laptops? No thank you.

[DatbeDank]

Either have a dedicated power cable or figure out how to prevent low powered USB C ports from being fried if you plug in the wrong cable. Until they solve that problem, it isn't ready for the mainstream. The ports should be smart enough to not take the full voltage. I've already seen a few folks fry their expensive phones by plugging in the wrong USB C cable.

Re:USB-C is a shit spec

[Anonymous Coward]

Pardon me, but you are a fool.

The reason that the voltage on the cable is 20v is to reduce the I^2R losses in the cable and connectors. To deliver a useful amount of power at 5v, you would need to have cables that were physically bulky, with matching heavy connectors. Since power = voltage * current, increasing the voltage decreases the current proportionally. Since dissipation in the cable and connectors is proportional to the square of the current, the effect is substantial. Remember, a 10% reduction in the current makes a 19% reduction in the power dissipation in the cable. Moving from 5v to 20v reduces the current by a factor of four - reducing the dissipation in the cables and connectors by a factor of 16 - which is why the fairly small cables and connectors they are using can deliver a useful amount of power.

If you are actually using correct circuits to run the USB power delivery (which is in the spec, by the way), there is a nice little switch mode power supply in the loop - which handles the conversion perfectly. Cypress, TI and a number of other player offer well designed and properly specified chips that do exactly what they are supposed to. It is not the fault of the spec that some manufacturers will violate standards and cause issues - rather, it is the fault of the manufacturers in violation. The designers are right, and you are a moron,

Re:because

[TheRaven64]

The problem with USB-C is that there are multiple power levels and some of the cheap cables don't correctly identify their maximum current, so end up catching fire when plugged into something that can provide the higher power levels. Unfortunately, these are typically sold on sites alongside the ones that will work fine.