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At Google, an Employee-Run Email List Tracks Harassment and Bias Complaints (bloomberg.com)

A group of Google employees have begun a message board for employees to submit worker complaints that's then emailed weekly as a digest, according to a report on Bloomberg. The email list -- called "Yes, at Google" -- has been around since October and allows employees to talk openly about work situations in which they felt uncomfortable; most submissions are anonymized. From the article: Google management is aware of the list. "We work really hard to promote and preserve a culture of respect and inclusion," a Google spokesperson said in a statement. "Our employees have numerous ways to raise issues -- both negative and positive -- with us, including through grassroots transparency efforts like this one. We take concerns seriously and take appropriate measures to address them." The list is run by a group of workers across different product areas, according to a person familiar with the list, though it's not clear who runs the list and how or whether the submissions are vetted before being distributed. Usually, the people in the complaints are not named, though one submission described an instance when, during a large company meeting in late April, Alphabet Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt allegedly interrupted Chief Financial Officer Ruth Porat when she had a question addressed to her, which the post categorized as a "gender-related" complaint. A person who attended the meeting said Schmidt answered the question to make a joke. Messages sometimes include job titles and other details.

32 of 90 comments (clear)

  1. I reported my rape and got fired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is a trap, they just want to fire people that try to report rape.

    1. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      It seems too many people these days see shaming and the system against them at every corner....

      I would guess that MOST of the complaints are of the "Seriously?" type as listed in the article:

      though one submission described an instance when, during a large company meeting in late April, Alphabet Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt allegedly interrupted Chief Financial Officer Ruth Porat when she had a question addressed to her, which the post categorized as a "gender-related" complaint. A person who attended the meeting said Schmidt answered the question to make a joke.

      I mean really....there *are* real instances of harassment out there, but you have so many people seeing and reporting crap that just isn't worth it and not a real problem and it muddies the water for seeing the few *real* incidents that happen out there, are serious and need to be addressed.

      Is this the snowflakes entering the real world, finding out everyone doesn't get a trophy, doesn't have to give a shit about their 'self esteem', only expecting you to get your job done and do what your told and on time.....and seeing and reporting crap that no one in past generations saw as a problem but just the way life is....?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by oakgrove · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If being interrupted by the opposite sex is a "gender-related" thing by now then I should top the charts of oppression and my wife has a lot of 'splainin to do.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    3. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Of course they know the joke incident was nothing, this is not what it's about. This list is essentially a back channel for the usual grievance mongers to organize themselves and exert pressure on management.

      The "document everything" mentality has the dual purpose of legitimizing the list existing and to provide a shit ton of ammunition when they don't get their way. Most of the accused will be completely unable to defend themselves as they will have no recollection of some offhand comment made in an informal chat 18 months ago.

      Expect a "harassment task-force" to be shoehorned into the upper management structure in the next 12 months, replete with cushie, highly paid positions occupied almost exclusively by women, and a lavish budget to hire in outside "diversity consultants" who just so happened to go to the same college.

    4. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by zm · · Score: 1, Funny

      Studies have shown that men interrupt women more than vice versa. So it is a real thing.

      Well, duh. The men make a point and then stop talking, so they do not need to be interrupted.

      --
      Sig ?
    5. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I hope every one of them is caught and hung at the nearest lamp post. Gimme the rope.

      Be careful what you wish for. Harsh punishments for rape are correlated with very high acquittal rates and a cultural of impunity. Society's "ideal" of rape is a pure innocent blonde virgin minding her own business when some total stranger grabs her and drags her into the bushes. Very few real rapes are anything like that, but the more the actual situation diverges from the "ideal", the less likely the women is to be believed or even take seriously. Very few juries are likely to put a seemingly nice guy in prison for 20 years because of a "he-said-she-said" accusation of date rape.

    6. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No amount of shaming men to try to make them more like women is going to change that

      Not true. I first heard of the interruption difference years ago when I read this book. Once I was attuned to it, I noticed it happening in meetings, and I noticed that I did it myself. So I try to interrupt less, and if someone else interrupts a woman during a meeting, I often later ask her to finish her point. So at least in my case, it made a difference.

    7. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by Jzanu · · Score: 1

      No, Bill is commenting that based on experience an individual can choose to change their ingrained behaviors to improve outcomes. In business communications is what drives intelligent reaction to the ever changing competitive environment. You lose that edge at your own peril as competitors will quickly overtake you. When individuals pursue self-improvement it also has benefits throughout their personal lives as well - just ask marriage counselors.

    8. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by Jzanu · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You need to learn more. This isn't a marginal case, which is a very specific concept, it is an example of what is possible and one which is readily observed in every context imaginable. To think otherwise means you are young or stupid, and probably both.

    9. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by swillden · · Score: 1, Interesting

      If being interrupted by the opposite sex is a "gender-related" thing by now then I should top the charts of oppression and my wife has a lot of 'splainin to do.

      The problem wasn't the interruption so much as the context. Porat was asked a question that was about a gender-related complaint and Schmidt apparently stopped the complaint from being discussed and turned it into a joke. Depending on the nature of the complaint, that could be really hurtful to the person who'd screwed up their courage enough to ask such a question in front of the whole company (I'm assuming the "large company meeeting" was the weekly whole-company TGIF).

      Note that although I work for Google, and occasionally read "Yes, at Google", I haven't read anything about the described scenario other than what's in the summary here. I don't know the context, or even if it really happened. I'm just commenting on the hypothetical.

      I'll add that I think the mailing list is awesome. Its purpose isn't to chastise anyone, or tell management about problems... those are HR functions and shouldn't be handled through an open mailing list. Its purpose is simply to raise awareness of the fact that sometimes really bad things happen at Google. Google is an open, friendly, egalitarian place and it's tempting for people to think that sexual harrasment, racial discrimination, etc., couldn't happen at Google. The mailing list shows otherwise and serves to help people learn to notice it. It also serves to raise awareness of the small ways in which people make their co-workers uncomfortable, often without even realizing it. It exposes people to different viewpoints and broadens their outlook.

      The mailing list is a good thing. You should start one at your workplace.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    10. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Porat was asked a question that was about a gender-related complaint and Schmidt apparently stopped the complaint from being discussed

      Yeah, I mean Gods forbid Eric Schmidt the goddamned chairman of the fucking board have the temerity to open his mouth to lead the discussion when an exalted womyn is dropping her pearls of wisdom before the ungrateful swine.

      I mean...the nerve.

    11. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This. It's not about shaming as some people seem to think, it's about awareness.

      Stop taking it personally. When I see a sign saying "don't drop litter", I don't feel the need to scrawl "not all people!" or "fuck you litter nazi" under it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, how dare she expect that she should feel comfortable at work.

      Nice strawman. At no point did I comment on whether someone should feel or not feel "comfortable" at work. But have fun arguing with the boogeyman in your head as I'm sure that's a lot more, um, comfortable than any pathetic attempts you could make at refuting what I actually say.

    13. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by swillden · · Score: 1

      Assuming you're the AC above, after your initial response you have zero right to expect any sort of reasoned discussion. And I have fed you far more than I should.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    14. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Some folks with H1B visas consider the handling of women to be the women's fault. Sounds gross, but hay; it's their culture and it works for them?

    15. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How much do men interrupt men?

    16. Re:I reported my rape and got fired by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      Very few juries are likely to put a seemingly nice guy in prison for 20 years because of a "he-said-she-said" accusation of date rape.

      You want people to be put away on the basis of unsubstantiated accusation alone? If there's evidence it's not "he-said-she-said", after all.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
  2. gender-related by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    >gender-related

  3. And? by caferace · · Score: 1

    ref: B.A ... R.B.A. (obscure references, it was the mid/late 90's)

  4. Need for Group is Google's Failure by Jzanu · · Score: 1

    The existence of a list like this was motivated by unmet needs for company oversight and review of workplace conduct between employees. Google's policy for controlling and eliminating harassment is inadequate because their employees say it is.

    1. Re:Need for Group is Google's Failure by jedrek · · Score: 1

      Exactly this. Why does Google spend so much money on hiring and keeping their employees on board, and then completely bone stuff like this?

  5. "Allegations" by Jfetjunky · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While I know the list is usually anonymous, this kind of thing seems like it could potentially morph into a trial by mod situations. I'm not sure allegations alone are enough for something so serious. I'm not sure any serious HR org would discipline an employee on a single accusation.

    1. Re: "Allegations" by Jfetjunky · · Score: 1

      Boo, I meant "mob"

    2. Re: "Allegations" by Jfetjunky · · Score: 1

      Also, I should have said on "just" an accusation. There would most certainly be more investigating than that.

  6. Re:Yet another social justice story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm not really into comic books, can you explain the relation to DC comics?

    Comic book sales waaaay down recently.

    And it corresponds directly to the SJW takeover of comics.

    "B-b-b-but that ain't why!" scream the SJWs.

    Which must be why Stan Lee and Marvel Comics have told the SJWs to pound sand.

  7. Re:Yet another social justice story by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

    Which must be why Stan Lee and Marvel Comics have told the SJWs to pound sand.

    That's why Thor is now a woman and Iron MAN is now a black woman.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  8. Re:Also know as a by x0ra · · Score: 1

    or "what every communist society evolves into"

  9. Re:Yet another social justice story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Iron Man had been played by a black guy (James Rhodes) in the comics back in the 1980s because Stark was a drunk.

    Thor is transformed by the hammer into the god form. You have to be worthy, but you don't need to be white. Or even human (see Beta Ray Bill, once again 1980s).

  10. Re:not good enough, misogynerds! by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 2

    tl;dr I should have used sarcasm tags. I forget this place is like the big city. I'm more used to the red site now which is like a small town where everybody knows everybody else. And now the part that's too long:

    Well, I did miss the MWMF closing down at first I admit, being (basically) a trans woman (with complications thanks to TERFs) who would point to MWMF as proof that all feminism is trans-exclusionary but not giving enough of a shit to actually join Camp Trans (learned about that from a trans woman I met at tech convention). BarbaraHudson did fill me in after MWMF had to shut down when I used to post here more. Mostly I post to the red site these days where some of my posts are even serious! (Though increasingly as AC when I'm not posting about something that'll immediately give me away.)

    I forget if that was before or after I scrambled the password to my old UID on both sites. Haha, nearly had a change of heart there about feminism (thank you AmiMoJo, BarbaraHudson, and Azuma Hazuki for at least attempting to get through my thick skull), but then some local TERFeminists (I suspect but cannot prove, events were just too weird to be random chance) gave me a smack down that wound up forcing me to drive a 300 mile round trip to see a doctor over something THAT OBAMACARE DID! Argh!!!eleven!1!

    These days I've said essentially "fuck it." I'm not certain that TERFs actually are a minority voice in feminism, and I'm certain they're not a minority in my neck of the woods! I understand that transfeminism is a thing, but... I've just been put through too much shit because of the misogynerd narrative (was interesting because it was before gamers were dead and misogynerd came into usage), because of rape culture, because of you-name-it. You can stitch it together based on my posts on the red site.

    If all feminists were like the three that I named in this post that at least proved to me that not all feminists are TERFs (and then... only one has the fucking status to say that as a feminist, sorry to the other two, and even then I don't know that. On the internet, nobody knows you're a T-900 advanced infiltrator from the post-apocalyptic future!), I would probably be a feminist. Unfortunately, they're not. The misogynerd narrative has gotten so ridiculous, especially the personal shit it's caused me, that I'm going to be lucky if I don't find out in a month's time from now that I'm also transphobic and homophobic in addition to being a misogynist.

    Yep, I'm a certified misogynist according to one TERF I still see on a daily basis solely because of my assigned gender at birth. Because of a fucking letter on a fucking legal document that may or may not even be the current fucking legal document I'd pull out if you asked me to. It's all my fault (hence the collective and several part of my other post) that there are no womyn-born-womyn programmers, that compilers emit error messages, and fucking Garbage In Garbage Out is all my fault.

    Yep, that's right! Garbage In Garbage Out is the fault of all assigned males (including trans women) EVEN THOUGH LOVELACE HERSELF FIRST PUT FORWARD THE NOTION (in her Notes)!!!!!eleven!1! Argh!!eleven!

    They don't even fucking comprehend her Notes, and they have the arrogance to proclaim that command lines and compilers themselves are tools of the patriarchy specifically designed by assigned males to be inaccessible to womyn-born-womyn!! TERFeminists can get fucked. No, they can get raped for all I care. Not just because of the misery they've caused me, not just because of the misery they've caused all trans women, but because they and their fucking misogynerd narrative and their insistence that "coding" is "easy" (did not read the other article on that subject) or would be if not for some grand conspiracy... they are the ones most directly responsible for the lack of women progr

  11. Wait, what? by BoogieChile · · Score: 1

    > ...the men's restrooms in the San Francisco offices have menstruation products to accommodate men who have periods.

    1. Re:Wait, what? by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      I was thinking that co-ed bathrooms would just make this easier. If there are stalls for all sitting/standing positions, there's not really a privacy concern either. The whole discussion of guy, girl, girl turned guy, guy turned girl blah blah blah.... let's make it easy... if you want to support a culture where everyone is equal... they have to be equal, that means equally happy and equally uncomfortable.

      Just build the stalls and make it coed. If the employees don't like it, then quit.

      P.S. - I recommend hiring a cleaning person to keep them clean all the time... otherwise there will be problems as guys seem to think "I never miss the bowl" which may be true... but what we don't generally realize is that there are little sprinkles and tinkles spraying everywhere.... including the floor, the seat and the walls.

  12. Re:not good enough, misogynerds! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The way you're treated my TERFs is the way all men are treated by feminists. It's a hate movement.