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Is China Outsmarting America in AI? (nytimes.com)
An anonymous reader shares an NYTimes article: Beijing is backing its artificial intelligence push with vast sums of money. Having already spent billions on research programs, China is readying a new multibillion-dollar initiative to fund moonshot projects, start-ups and academic research (Editor's note: the link could be paywalled; alternative source), all with the aim of growing China's A.I. capabilities, according to two professors who consulted with the government on the plan. China's private companies are pushing deeply into the field as well, though the line between government and private in China sometimes blurs. Baidu -- often called the Google of China and a pioneer in artificial-intelligence-related fields, like speech recognition -- this year opened a joint company-government laboratory partly run by academics who once worked on research into Chinese military robots. China is spending more just as the United States cuts back. This past week, the Trump administration released a proposed budget that would slash funding for a variety of government agencies that have traditionally backed artificial intelligence research.
Answer on your phones; now
You can count on it.
... it is.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Is the true question, and the only answer is, OF COURSE IT IS! This is TRUMP, one who has the intellect of any other stage-4 alzheimers patient, and outsmarting anyone with this is quite literally child's play.
Strong AI doesn't exist yet, so no, no one is outsmarting anyone when developing true AI.
If we're talking about AI being equal to computer programs as marketing tends to do, then no, because American tech companies are the most valuable in the world.
How much money is Google putting into AI research? Amazon? Apple? IBM? Others? How successful are they compared to the Chinese government's efforts?
How many products or services do people use which rely on U.S. company's AI efforts and how many which rely on Chinese created efforts?
The idea that the only comparison is between Chinese government funding and U.S. government funding is ridiculous. The private companies in the U.S. working on AI are the ones actually accomplishing things nowadays and announcing another government 5-year plan for China to win some sort of AI race isn't going to change that.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Every year we keep stupidly claiming that AI is just around the corner. Every year we are disappointed.
The truth is we have tricked ourselves. The rapid pace of Moore's law (computing power keeps doubling) has created incredible simulations. But paintings and statues do NOT spontaneously come alive, no matter how accurately they simulate a person. Neither do computer chips.
There is a fundamental difference between real AI and what computer chips can do. The ability of computer chips to parse written, audio, and visual information is amazing, and keeps growing but it is NOT real AI and will never be.
Computers will shortly be able to accept input via camera and microphone as accurately as they get it from a keyboard or mouse. That is not real AI. Nor is the amazingly complex search functions and databases we have created.
They are useful, and worth investing in, but more money has been wasted on them than is appropriate.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
In my American pre-K, we used to make collages out of macaroni. I could outdo anyone in the class in terms of what needed to be done, except for the Chinese kids and their superior AI.
Whenever I hear about China making progress in any field I've always got to wonder... how? Do they actually design, or do they merely steal?
Japan tried something similar in the 1980's
The tech giants -- Microsoft, Amazon, Google, etc. -- did not depend on an infusion of cash from governments to become leaders. Although there are likely exceptions, governments tend to do poorly when picking winners and losers. My guess is that China's major gains in A.I. will occur from spycraft, in other words, stealing the intellectual property from companies in the West.
I guess you didn't go to collage.
Well, how good are their AIs at Go?
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
You should see what they're doing to with Popsicle sticks.
ROTFLMAO, dream on.
,Military spending, health spending (though results don't match), generosity (charity donations)
The problem with the USA is that it now eats too much of its own dog food.
https://www.theguardian.com/ne...
The USA is 14th for Reading
The USA is 25th for Maths
The USA is 17th for Science.
And the US fares little better for Health, welfare, life expectancy, democracy, corruption, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, equality, social mobility, etc etc etc etc.
You are number 1 for Prisoners (per 100,000)
China should be the worlds biggest economy soon, the EU is probably not far behind (would have been faster without Brexit)
Being American does not automatically mean you win, it requires far more than that.
They are out hyping AI which certainly takes a lot to do compared to the US.
and voters -- including those who influence them -- want government money spent on bread, not education.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
when you factor out african-americans, america is at the top of all of those areas. due to political correctness people always underestimate us, and fail.
bomber gap
missile gap
AI gap?
The problem with the USA is that it now eats too much of its own dog food.
Societal pressure to have students do well in tests in small monolithic cultures, like South Korea and Finland, do not necessarily translate perfectly into larger societies. The American educational system is actually praised across much of Asia, because it focuses more on creativity rather than regurgitation. Slower students do tend to find it easier to drop out of US schools, but as compensation, the best students usually find unique opportunities that allow them to excel in ways that Asian countries don't usually allow.
China is never going to have the world's biggest economy until it ditches its totalitarian system. There is just too much you cannot do.
i say this honestly. every time apple says siri got smarter, she actually gets dumber. she only has a small subset of commands from when i first got this dumb phone. so it would not surprise me that anyone is outsmarting america in anything.
The U.S. could put money into AI or universal healthcare, but instead puts it into military toys and the pockets of the rich.
Yes, but the economy has to keep funding their welfare, police needs, prison blocks, etc....lest they start killing us instead of mostly themselves.
Yes but Chinese companies like Baidu, TenCent and Alibaba are comparable to Google, Facebook, and Amazon and are very competitive in AI research and accomplishments. China's home grown supercomputers are the fastest in the world and the Chinese are pursuing multiple avenues of development and improvement in software and hardware. Assuming that the US will continue leading in computer hardware and software without a national push to improve is naive.
right in the face *splat*
We can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
Let China win. Let them innovate and develop all the hot new technology. Then copy it from them without a care in the world. China's been doing that for decades and it's worked out pretty well for them.
Nope. While the government's crack and HIV solutions failed to solve the problem effectively, Trump is working on something huge that will #MAGA.
And France (for one) chooses which populations to include in their stats and which to exclude.
That's one example. I can't speak for the rest but I truly wonder if you are comparing apples to apples.
For instance, as regards violence, most US counties are as safe as the safest in Europe. Something like 2 percent of the US counties have 1/3 of the violence.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
And America's music industry and sports dominance collapses because whites can't jump and are tone-deaf.
98% of US Counties shoot drug users on sight and dump their bodies in the desert, never reporting anything.
"There is just too much you cannot do."
Such as ?
More Anti-Trump garbage from the New York Times. Uneducated phewls. Its truly amazing how all the liberals rely on the government for everything. How much money are the PRIVATE company's in the USA pumping into AI?
China isn't spending money on stuff like this because they're too stupid to realize that the American private sector will deliver the technology if they just wait. They have their reasons.
The companies that you are calling "US Companies" have no real allegiance to the US. If all things were equal, they could just as well do the research in, say, Indonesia, which has almost the population of the US, or India, which is considerably larger. But neither of those have the America's massive research infrastructure, paid for by lavish cold war spending.
What China is doing here is priming the pump. If they can create a hotbed of advanced applied research in a field like AI, that will attract companies to put research facilities there.
Put yourself in China's shoes. They have over 4x the population of the US, so why shouldn't they be 4x more influential and powerful? But it won't happen by letting nature take its course.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
And you know why the US government "put money into the pockets of the rich"? Yes, that right: because of idiots like you.
And I was about to say what people have said back in the 90s and 2000s. It's going to take years for the chinese to catch up to the U.S. in technology. Funny thing is people kept saying that and now look at where the chinese are with technology?
You are one hundred percent right. Very little good comes from government funded research. DARPA, NASA, NIH, etc. are a total waste of money. We need to plow all the cash we waste on them into the exploitation of the natural resources this country has. The government has to allow and help corporate executives meet the need to keep the investors and the banks short term profit goals met so they can off shore the profits. They also need to help to shift more of the taxes to the middle class to fund the programs to help the wealthy. You know, give the very wealthy all the benefit of no taxes and let us take the yellow shower in the "trickle down".
Let's hope they spend a bunch of buck on this and maybe make some advancements. At least it's not directly on bombs and bullets. Maybe the AIs will convince them to work on fusion development. After all, it's only 50 years away from full rollout.
Being American does not automatically mean you win, it requires far more than that.
I think the US population does not have what it takes to understand that. They have been told for too long that they are massively ahead of anybody else, even in things were they are already massively behind. Now they stick to that in order to feel good and think their way is the only good one (i.e. no potential for learning from others).
Of course, that is how empires fall: Believing themselves to be ahead instead of actually being ahead.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
If there were any such thing as 'AI'. Yawn, snooze, and snooooooore
China races to the technological singularity while the US races to the end-state of capitalism.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
The publication evidence is that the major centers of research on deep learning are Redmond, Cambridge and universities in China -
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse...
Who cares?! Pwedeipie posted a new video! That's what I'm watching, not your nerd rage! Dorks!
Much of the current problem started with WWII.
.
The USA was lucky, not great.
Name any other large, well populated, educated, industrialised nation with large amounts of natural resources that was not bombed during WWII. During the 1940-1970s the USA was able to build on what they already had, the rest of the world was effectively rebuilding roads, rail. schools, hospitals, and all the other infrastructure required. More to the point, they were able to build and sell the things the rest of the world needed.
During the 1950s the USA account for over 50% of the entire worlds GDP, today its about 20%.
The world is no longer reliant on the US, sure it impacts all the world, but so does China and the EU.
The US is 4% of the worlds population, so 96% of the worlds population and 80% of world trade are not US based.
China can (and will) surpass the USA, so will India and Brazil, may not happen in my life time, but it will happen, and I am not so sure the US is capable to accepting that cultural shock. I think high up in some sectors of the US government they understand this which is why they are meddling in the politics of Asian countries, they don't want as Asian Trading Bloc because that is 60% of the worlds population, and the area of greatest economic growth potential. Growth potential in the USA is almost nil, its a saturated market.
And while Trump et al keeps shouting USA USA USA and USA first, the rest of the world keeps on improving, and putting the USA further and further down the ladder. For example, the world is not longer reliant on Boeing, there is Airbus, and China is getting into the act too. ARM is doing well, Its British not US. Samsung is doing well, again not US. And there are thousands of examples where non-US products are better than US ones.
Its not like the US has failed, it more like the rest of the world has grown up and is no longer dependant. And because of that, the natural progression is that the US will fall behind in many fields
is going to use a page out of the Chinese playbook this time.
Let them dump vast sums of money into the research, then just steal it once it is viable and improve upon it.
"There is just too much you cannot do."
Such as ?
Broadcast the AlphaGo vs Chinese grandmaster Go match in China?
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
America, the land of the insecure and arrogant. Who cares if it is, you can't (and never have been) the best at everything, the only thing america is truly the best at is convincing gullible people that it is the best.
America #1 at nothing...
OH WAIT Obesity, mass shootings, gun violence in general for a developed nation, incarcerating its own people... there are some things you're still #1 at!
The USA is 14th for Reading
The USA is 25th for Maths
If you look at the data, the difference comes down to demographics, urban vs rural and race.
The top scorers in PISA are highly urbanised and racially homogeneous.
If you look at data from American Whites and Asians in the cities, they compare very well.
There is less data for blacks and rural populations, but I think those demographics in America would also compare favourably to their fellows in other OECD countries.
"China is never going to have the world's biggest economy until it ditches its totalitarian system."
You had me nodding along until that last part. While their numbers are a bit sketchy it seems to he generally agreed upon that China's economy is growing faster than ours and has been for quite some time. Couple that with the fact that they have over 3 times the consumers that we do and I think it's really quite possible for them to have a larger economy in the future.
Now if we're talking per capita gdp that might jive with what you're saying.
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Not just that, a country w/ a $20T debt would have more problems coughing up the dough than a country like China that's floating on cash, and which has the bulk of the world's manufacturing
Good plan, except that we'd have to translate that stuff from Mandarin, or be as willing to adapt Mandarin in our business as they've adapted English in theirs
Yes but Chinese companies like Baidu, TenCent and Alibaba are comparable to Google, Facebook, and Amazon
Baidu's main AI lab is in California.
Most of the researchers there are Americans.
Baidu Silicon Valley AI Lab
Chinas population is over 1.37 Billion
USA population is 321 Million.
China has about 4 times the US population.
China also has faster, easier access to all of Asia which accounts for about 60% of the worlds population (USA is 4%)
Oh.. Wait.. IBM is not really an American company, opportunistically? Anyhoo.... Capitalism will produce things when it makes more money. Communism can set focus on something (like ... making socks) and take an early ( if myopic ) stab at it. How would we gage useful manifestation of AI.. .at its first implementation, or one that makes more money? Military robots? autonomous drones? Factory work robots?
Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
Doesn't scale though.. Who will make our arms when everything is made in the same time zone ( https://www.timeanddate.com/wo... ) ? at this point, how much of our military is made with chinese components... Crucal ones..
Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
China also has a very male-heavy youth population. All those smart young boys with no girls around to distract them. I'm betting on them.
While I know you are just being a moron, think about it for a moment.
This is one of the major reason such companies provide such services 'in the cloud'
You cannot copy them, you can only utilize the service - any more than you can copy the google PageRank algorithm, or their translation machine learning codes.
So no, go back to your cave..
If you really believe any of this bullshit then what percentage of your portfolio is in Chinese stocks? What percentage American stocks?
China is already outdoing the US in a whole bunch of things, but international press do not cover this so lots of people don't really know what's going on there.
This is an understandable, often overlooked problem that not many people stop to think about.
The way press works for international coverage, for several countries, is to only publish a limited range of stories that overcomes the cultural/language barrier, when not ultimately going only for eye grabbing content.
And that's fine, because really, who's got the time and attention to know everything that's happening all around the world?
It's just naive and kinda dangerous to build an image of a country and it's industry based on the very limited information you get from main channels.
It's why even nowadays we still have so many people with this image that products coming from China are all shoddily made or clones of american/european products, when in fact not only China controls the vast majority of production for most electronics we use in a daily basis, several design decisions and technology advances also happen there.
It's nothing magical really... when you have a single country taking care of a huge percentage of worldwide production and manufacturing of tech related products for over a decade, of course they'll start developing their own products from start to finish. Think about what your own country would do in a similar situation.
People who have been paying attention for one reason or another to chinese branded smartphones, tablets, laptops and several other lines of products will know that they are fast becoming indistinguishable from high end lines of american and european brands. And particularly for their own market, there is no culural barrier to overcome. Technologies that are highly related to culture like AI (because recent advancements have been going around speech recognition and such) are bound to evolve in a different way.
Who's the leader in end-consumer quadcopters right now? DJI, indisputably, right? You know what DJI stands for? Dà-Jing Innovations Science and Technology Co. It's a Shenzhen based and born company. There's a whole bunch of tech crammed in those drones that were developed by the company... tech for obstacle avoidance, 3d tech for hand gesture recognition, radars and sensors.
Some people might not know, but Lenovo is also a chinese company. Yes, the one that now owns the staple of business laptops, the Thinkpad line. The same company that owns Motorola.
There's a whole bunch of cases like those in the tech industry.
Not to mention how chinese companies have been buying left and right a whole bunch of hotel businesses, movie studios and other companies people have no idea about:
http://fortune.com/2016/03/18/...
Sure, a whole bunch of tech that several chinese companies made in the past were straight rip offs of designs from US, europeran and japanese based companies, but this has changed in later years. And the further you go into several tech devices, the more you understand how much of the technology behind them are really not coming from a single US brand.
High end technology for all sorts of displays nowadays have a majority made in South Korea (LG and Samsung). Central parts of cameras of all shapes and sizes, including smartphone cameras, mostly comes from Sony, a japanese company. Samsung also dominates when it comes to technology related to storage (memory chips and whatnot), but that market is a bit more balanced. CPUs, GPUs and SOCs are still mostly developed by american and british companies (Qualcomm, Intel nVidia), but that doesn't mean they don't have chinese or asian competition (Samsung, Mediatek, Allwinner). More importantly though is that in several areas of technology, if a chinese company isn't already there among the top businesses involved, there's likely to be one encroaching.
So yeah, I don't know if chinese companie
I made a snark on another post that folks should've voted 'Regressive', but I'm slowly realizing that we absolutely did just that. Sorry, I don't have an AI angle, but I've got some spare karma!
There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
Ah humans ... so self-confident ... even after they have started to lose!
https://qz.com/878503/ke-jie-the-worlds-best-go-player-says-he-still-has-one-last-move-to-defeat-google-goog-deepminds-alphago-ai/
Silly China, shouldn't have murdered all of those intellectuals 40 years ago. In retrospect it was a really bad idea.
China can (and will) surpass the USA, so will India and Brazil, may not happen in my life time,
China and India will, but not Brazil. The US has a larger population than Brazil, and that gap will increase (the fertility rates are the same, and more people want to immigrate to the US). The social and economic gaps between the US and Brazil will narrow, but probably not close entirely.
The US may only be 4% of the world's population, but that still makes it the third most populated country after China and India.
Ah, I didn't realize they were so much over a billion. Thanks for the update.
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China have not adapted English as their business language. Most Chinese businesses have very limited English skills among their staff. It is easy to find people that speak and read English at a simplified level, but few people handle the language at a reasonable business level. There are very limited access to English books, magazines, and movies. The English materials are censored, changed for local taste, and translated into Mandarin for the Chinese market.
Most Chinese nationals living and working in the west prefer Chinese news sources and Chinese online entertainment outside their work here in the west. The main reason is language. They have a tendency to think something like: "It is easier to not translate in my head after a tiring day at work". That reduces their understanding of the English language in a culture and social setting. It also reduces their understanding of the western societies, way of thinking, and democracy.
I agree, but have a look at any major university in the world. You tend to find Chinese nationals doing their PHD studies. Many of those go home after their international PHD.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The point being that all IP, knowledge, future plans is not decided by UK people or "europe" (whatever that is)
Selling ARM to Japanese is a "stupid decision" by UK gov. (They could have blocked due to some "national interest")
I would argue that both US and Europe are losing out to the whole BRICS block
The only way they've managed to make technological advances recently is by outright theft.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
What governments invest in and what private businesses invest in are usually two different categories of research - as far as I know, that is the way it has always been. Private companies typically invest in monetising research results, or do research on things that can be made into a saleable product - that is after all the primary purpose of most businesses. But where does that research come from? Normally from government funded sources - certainly this is the case outside the US, where most universities are publicly funded. The point to take home is that the fundamental research, which to the un-initiated can seems like mere daydreaming and waste of time and money, is crucially important for the high-tech businesses of tomorrow, who are going to monetise the results that flow from fundamental research.
Just look back at the decades of research into how inherited traits are actually transmitted - it started around 1830 with Gregor Mendel, and it was not until the late 20th century that we got so close that businesses could smell the money, but now DNA research is one of the most important, fastest growing industries. So that's 170 years of curiosity driven, fundamental research and 20 years of private businesses investing in the same. Public funding of research is what drives this kind of research - because companies in general only think about the next fiscal year and the bottom line.
The USA was lucky, not great. [...] Name any other large, well populated, educated, industrialised nation with large amounts of natural resources that was not bombed during WWII. [...] During the 1950s the USA account for over 50% of the entire worlds GDP, today its about 20%.
The USA accounted for about 30% of the world's economy before WWII. It reached that position through rapid, efficient industrialisation, driven by an intensely capitalist economy, with workers from an unprecedented influx of immigration (the after-effects of which are still being felt today).
The bump from 30% to 50% was due to its luckiness and isolation, yes: but reaching 30% in the first place was ... okay, partly due to luckiness and isolation in WWI, but a lot of it is a triumphant story of capitalism and democracy as an engine for generating wealth.
Compare the USA with Argentina, which matches the US for luck in isolation, and - two hundred years ago - was in a similar economic position to the US. Today, it's not even close.
Interesting. Can you provide some more data to support the claim?
Canada, Mexico, Spain, Switzerland, Australia, and others I'm probably forgetting. The USA was bombed in World War 2 btw. Pearl harbor? German sabotage efforts?
Excellent point. The US has grown fat and lazy while it was ahead and that now makes it difficult for them to even only keep pace with the others.
I do know a European example that was not bombed in WWII: Switzerland. The difference is that they used that advantage and are today in 2nd place as to GDP per capita in Europe, after Luxembourg (apparently suffered very little infrastructure-damage in WWII as well and would be a second example) and with about twice the value of Germany, the UK or France. Not having to build-up infrastructure again is a huge advantage, but it has to be used well to count long-term.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
An advantage has to be used well to count. The US is not 2nd world yet (like Argentina), but it seems to be on the way there by slowly falling behind. Of course, it would be to anybodies benefit if that could be fixed, because the things done now (protectionism, sabotage of competition) basically only do harm. But I do not see it happen anytime soon. It will be interesting to see at what time the US economy bottoms out and start to catch up again. There are some huge challenges to overcome for that and Trump is making things worse at the moment long-term, by attempting to lighten some straw-fires so he does not quite look like the utter failure he is.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The US may only be 4% of the world's population, but that still makes it the third most populated country after China and India.
The US is a collection of states... So you should really include the other big collection of states in your comparison, the EU. The population of the EU is greater than the US by a considerable margin.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Let China win. Let them innovate and develop all the hot new technology. Then copy it from them without a care in the world. China's been doing that for decades and it's worked out pretty well for them.
This is an emotional statement meant to be use as, I don't know, sarcasm maybe. Pure chest thumping that achieves nothing.
Canada, Mexico, Spain, Switzerland, Australia, and others I'm probably forgetting. The USA was bombed in World War 2 btw. Pearl harbor? German sabotage efforts?
I'm from Latin America, and to put Mexico (and Spain) in that list is ludicrous. Spain pretty much turned itself into a backwater land, and Mexico, though far more industrialized than most other LATAM country (sans Argentina), it truly did not belong (and still doesn't) to a list of industrialized, educated countries. And I don't mean this as an act of derision (I love Mexico, I just care enough for it to point where it is lagging.)
Canada and Switzerland, though educated and industrialized, were not significant economies whose presence or absence would become pivotal. Apples and oranges.
Sure, Pearl Harbor was bombed, but the OP is specifically talking of bombing as "being bombed back to the stone age", which is pretty much what happened to most of Europe and Japan. We are talking about countries with their infrastructure and industrial base that they have to start building shit out, down to simple things like public plumbing, all the way from scratch and rubble.
Much of the current problem started with WWII. The USA was lucky, not great. Name any other large, well populated, educated, industrialised nation with large amounts of natural resources that was not bombed during WWII. During the 1940-1970s the USA was able to build on what they already had, the rest of the world was effectively rebuilding roads, rail. schools, hospitals, and all the other infrastructure required. More to the point, they were able to build and sell the things the rest of the world needed. During the 1950s the USA account for over 50% of the entire worlds GDP, today its about 20%. The world is no longer reliant on the US, sure it impacts all the world, but so does China and the EU. The US is 4% of the worlds population, so 96% of the worlds population and 80% of world trade are not US based. China can (and will) surpass the USA, so will India and Brazil, may not happen in my life time, but it will happen, and I am not so sure the US is capable to accepting that cultural shock. I think high up in some sectors of the US government they understand this which is why they are meddling in the politics of Asian countries, they don't want as Asian Trading Bloc because that is 60% of the worlds population, and the area of greatest economic growth potential. Growth potential in the USA is almost nil, its a saturated market. And while Trump et al keeps shouting USA USA USA and USA first, the rest of the world keeps on improving, and putting the USA further and further down the ladder. For example, the world is not longer reliant on Boeing, there is Airbus, and China is getting into the act too. ARM is doing well, Its British not US. Samsung is doing well, again not US. And there are thousands of examples where non-US products are better than US ones.
This. That 80% of the world trade happens *outside* of the US or that countries can actually survive without it, that will be a tough, bitter pill to swallow to many who bought the "bring jobs back" kool-aid. He who was stupid enough to believe it will get his Darwin reward in time.
Its not like the US has failed, it more like the rest of the world has grown up and is no longer dependant. And because of that, the natural progression is that the US will fall behind in many fields .
Exactly. Countries are simply climbing themselves up. Economies are not a zero-sum game (unless we still do nothing about the millions of effectively illiterate workers who are simply unemployable outside of grunt work.)
Australia was bombed in WW2, just for the record.
If it were only that easy. I'd bet that if the US didn't then they would be like Israel right now in the middle east. Where Canada and Mexico would be an offshoot of some non-friendly country and a border between them like that between N & S Korea.
The Feeling of Power:
http://themathlab.com/writings/short%20stories/feeling.htm
Tracy Johnson
Old fashioned text games hosted below:
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BT
I'll do that once the EU countries give up their separate UN votes :)
"This is one of the major reason such companies provide such services 'in the cloud'"
You say this as if it prevents corporate secrets from leaking out. Employees come and go, and many take ideas with them. You see it all the time, and this is no different.
Just another day in Paradise
And before that it was the Koreans, and the Japanese.
Just another day in Paradise
Indonesia? No. Yeah, they have population, but no infrastructure, little education, and they have their own problems as one of the largest Muslim populations in the world. https://www.wsj.com/articles/t...
Just another day in Paradise
Indonesia? No. Yeah, they have population, but no infrastructure, little education,
Which is exactly my point.
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RE: In fact, there are rather strong indications at this time that some human brains can do things that may not be possible in this universe.
CItations? Examples? Please be specific. I'm really interested, and have agreed with many of your posts, but here you seem to be veering off rational argument.
On its face your statement is self-contradictory, and thus fallacious. (As are other parts of your argument.)
You make extraordinary claims, but give no specifics or examples to back up your generalizations. You may be right, but I can think of no examples of magic properties of human brains that would require extra-physical umm, mechanisms? (Even trying to frame a question about your assertions seems paradoxically impossible.)
You simultaneously decry 'magical' explanations, and then refer to magical explanations ('the soul') to bolster your argument. I don't get it. Can you explain better?
At last year's World Congress on Computational Intelligence, 40% of the papers were from China.
How much money is Google putting into AI research? Amazon? Apple? IBM? Others? How successful are they compared to the Chinese government's efforts?
How many products or services do people use which rely on U.S. company's AI efforts and how many which rely on Chinese created efforts?
The idea that the only comparison is between Chinese government funding and U.S. government funding is ridiculous. The private companies in the U.S. working on AI are the ones actually accomplishing things nowadays and announcing another government 5-year plan for China to win some sort of AI race isn't going to change that.
With all governments, there is usually an arrangement to create a government need and hence to fund research. Its been this way for the past 75 years.
But foreign countries take the view that 3% or 4% of gdp is for funding innovation. Innovation is the key to progress.
The USA under your POTUS had redirected that 3-4% towards a tax reduction for the wealthiest. When that healthcare and research money goes to drop corporate tax rates by 15 %, you will see some humongous transfers of wealth from parents to children. You will see transactions dealing with tens of billions of dollars, where wealth transfer will be subject to reduced taxation. And then the bail-out. Trump will have done his thing for his fortune, Jared likewise and the Republicans will be footing the bill, along with Mr Average.
So, US research into AI is not going to suddenly explode. Oh yes, there might be some extra AI research if military spending is not used for tanks, but for technology to create cyber warfare, eg, cyber attacks and cyber defences. But Trump is only happy with rockets. He likes to see the flaming tail as these rockets shoot upwards.
The USA spends more on military than the next three largest countries combined. Does the military need that increase? Is the USA planning to invade the world? That extra spending that Trump wants should go to education (AI research, medical research, etc.). I just feel so sad that the Trump priorities are wrong.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
You should see what they're doing to with chopsticks.
FTFY
Just another day in Paradise
For the most part, it seems like the intcentives are all wrong however. It seems like most of the AI that they are doing is centered around getting more advertising in front of potential suckers, errr, I mean users so they might buy more useless crap. The only exception I can think of is the effort to make self-driving cars. I suppose it was all predictable.
It is true though. It also worked well for Japan. And, hell, it is how the US got started, by stealing patented device ideas from the British/UK. The thing is, they start out copying and then springboard that knowledge into innovation. Anyone with any amount of experience knows that engineers learn a lot from the manufacturing lines and processes. We've sent a tremendous amount of ours to The Middle Kingdom, what is that doing to the development of our engineering talent? Even when dealing with AI: insights gained on an assembly line can be used as catalysts and motivation when developing AI.
Only I can judge you.
Yeah, I'm sure that set back their progress thousands of years. Hell, it probably added 6 billion hours of productivity to the country as a whole.
Hey! Maybe we should do that with sports, and cat videos, and pron, and celebrity watching. I bet productivity would skyrocket!
Only I can judge you.
I'm betting on them instituting polygamy with two or more husbands for every female. Or making male homosexuality acceptable and even preferable. Maybe castration as a way to receive free college education (it reduces the needfulness)? Another thing is that maybe they'll all take to avidly watching pron and never even notice that they've never actually hung out with real women nor do they care to.
Only I can judge you.
You didn't notice the "never reporting anything" statement? That makes it an air-tight unassailable claim, like The Bible.
Only I can judge you.
Protectionism and sabotage of competition are key components needed to develop a local economy. The US did to great success, it was only when the free trade corporatist baboons took the helm that the US started (and hasn't stopped) falling behind. Now China is doing it and, predictably, it is working gangbusters for them.
Only I can judge you.
This speaks more to long-standing racial inequalities in the treatment of minorities than anything else, such as the racial ability you are trying to imply. When your family gets put in jail over "crimes" created to punish minorities such as marijuana usage (knocks down blacks and browns), crack cocaine usage (again, blacks and browns but mostly blacks). When your way-back inheritance consists of not-a-fucking-thing while some dead-stupid fuck gets to inherit the family negroes and some land, hmm someone magically does better in life. Must be all that inherent talent.
Try living in the ghetto, in a crowded, overheated, or freezing apartment with neighbors crammed around you like rats. See how well you can focus when all you hear at night are screams, and moans, and cars and sirens. Let me know how positive an outlook you'll develop when your dad is due to be out in 7 years with good behavior for the horrid crime of slinging some dope to try to feed the family.
Fuck all of y'all and your racist, thoughtless statistics.
Only I can judge you.
Switzerland etc don't have oil, gas, coal, etc etc etc, so not really a good example
Wow! Where did that rant come from?
I don't know anything about the ghettos. I'm not even American. Am just talking about the facts behind the PISA rankings, and why US scores lower than other advanced economies. I was not trying to imply anything about nature vs nurture here, because it is irrelevant to the context.
Try considering a less emotional topic - the urban vs rural gap. There are a number of hypotheses, but we still don't really know the root causes of that.
But if it makes you feel better, I totally agree about the "war on drugs", and that such bad laws disproportionately affect disadvantaged demographics.
I saw your comment and some earlier similar ones. Maybe not from you but definitely Americans who use these statistics use them to drive home the (incorrect) point that "the minorities" are dragging down the nation due to their lower innate intelligence. I lumped you in with them. I think I was already pissed about seeing this shit earlier and didn't read too carefully. I should go back and respond on the other thread I read.
I sort of apologize but I still don't get the point you were trying to make. You lump Asians and Whites in the cities together, and Blacks and rural people in another group, what is that about or meant to illustrate?
Only I can judge you.