European Union Will Fund Public Wifi (axios.com)

An anonymous reader writes: The European Union is moving towards getting free public wifi into unconnected locations around the bloc. A new agreement will provide 120 million euros to "fund equipment for public free Wi-Fi services in 6,000 to 8,000 municipalities" across the E.U.

Comments

How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, that's right, you're going to raise taxes and force people to pay for this whether they want it or not. The free market could decide this for itself, or local governments could provide incentives for businesses to increase connectivity with voters approving tax credits. Instead, the leftist leadership of this is going to force it on everyone in the EU and raise the already ridiculously high taxes even more to pay for it. This is why the free market should be allowed to operate with minimal government intervention and control.

- snruter rotsac

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[mrclevesque]

"The free market could decide this for itself,"

The 'free market' doesn't exist in that sense, markets are always run according to various sets of rules.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[fustakrakich]

Oh c'mon... It's only 120 million euros. How much is that in Beluga Caviar?

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Wycliffe]

Oh c'mon... It's only 120 million euros. How much is that in Beluga Caviar?

Yeah, that's what they said when the United States started paying for stuff for the states. Look at us now. The Federal government has all the power and the state governments are a joke. That's exactly where the EU is heading. They modelled their system after the USA and are following the same path where the EU slowly takes more and more power from the individual countries until they cease to exist. An interesting history lesson, the word state used to be synonymous with nation until the USA redefined it and robbed the individual states of their sovereignty.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Subnationalizing the states was the price of freedom from slavery and disagreeing is a hate crime.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[SpankiMonki]

Look at us now. The Federal government has all the power and the state governments are a joke.

Hold on there, pardner. I live in Texas and I can assure you that our state government is not a jo...oh wait

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your glory days of the Republic are over, Tex. Six Flags over the Loser State now.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the US the 'free market' has created entrenched players who can stifle any advancement to suit their own profits

the free market is way too oversold, I would love to have some socialism driving the development of new technology

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[fustakrakich]

No, I'm sorry... The correct answer is ~13,400 kilos

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[HornWumpus]

Less, you'd spike the price buying that much.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Germany figured out that it could not control the world on it's own, though it tried twice.

If they control Europe and the other countries without fighting them, they'll have a much better chance this time.

Re: How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dummies who cry free market about these things forget about natural monopolies. We used to understand that you had to regulate natural monopolies, but now we are too stupid to understand that certain businesses aren't really good candidates for the free market with telecom and the internet perfect examples of businesses that should be regulated monopolies

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

They modelled their system after the USA

The EU integration goes from the little things to larger things, while the US integration goes the other way around. It all started as a agreement to mutually oversee the strategic industries of each party to avoid another war.

An interesting history lesson, the word state used to be synonymous with nation until the USA redefined it and robbed the individual states of their sovereignty.

At that point the state was more synonymous to a king or kingdom rather than a nation. The national romantic cultural wave was on its infancy, waiting for the first French republic and the early days of Napoleon, Risorgimento, and Otto von Bismarck. The US was never looked as collection of states with a separate cultures, but a unified nation with the culture as it was presented through its ambassadors.
  Some show about the history of television in the US emphasized how the national broadcasting finally harmonized the US culture in a significant way. The previous differences were practically invisible to the outside world before and remained so until television brought the US political and historical divides to the European screens.

Re: How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeh giving free things to citizens is so bad. Better ban mums giving milk to their children, and better yet ban the American military for its socialist national defence program...

Re: How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Typical self centeeed American, England is a sub national state and has quite different laws compared to wales or Scotland and doZens of other British territories around the world.

Re: How do you plan to pay for this?

[Wycliffe]

Typical self centeeed American, England is a sub national state and has quite different laws compared to wales or Scotland and doZens of other British territories around the world.

American states are very similar to England,Scotland, and Wales. They had and still have in some cases quite different laws from state to state but every year that goes by the laws get more and more homogenized and the states lose more and more powers to the federal. The federal government discovered that it could collect more money than it needed and then give it back with strings attached to make the states comply. The states technically could not comply but only at the cost of not getting their fair share of the federal money.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

you are a fucking idiot

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Subnationalizing the states was the price of freedom from slavery and disagreeing is a hate crime.

And I will disagree. Slavery was already dying. Whites enslaving blacks was the final breath of slavery and a short part of overall slavery. Most of the racial problems we have today are because of the last 200 years of slavery where slave traders tried to make people think blacks were inferior to whites to try to keep slavery from fully dying. Before that any race could be a slave owner and any race could be a slave. Racism only became a part of slavery at the tail end of slavery when it was already on it's way out.

p.s. A good book to read about slavery and racism is "Roll of Thunder, Hear my Cry". It not only explains the root of whites enslaving blacks but it also shows what real racism looks like.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that's what they said when the United States started paying for stuff for the states. Look at us now.

Ok, do tell us what's going on. And then tell us why Trump, and the GOP beforehand hasn't fixed it. They've been railing at it for over 30 years now, yet the results, well, what results do we have, huh?

The Federal government has all the power and the state governments are a joke.

State governments chose to be a joke. Some of them became the epitome of corruption, to the point where their own citizens were rebelling against them. Not to mention the nullification crisis, was all about supporting the rich, as was their second huzzah with slavery.

So far, states' rights have been woefully misused.

That's exactly where the EU is heading.

I'm pretty sure the British government didn't need the EU to become a joke.

They modelled their system after the USA and are following the same path where the EU slowly takes more and more power from the individual countries until they cease to exist.

While I'm not sure of the ACTUAL existence of Delaware, I'm pretty sure it NEVER existed, thus it could not cease to exist.

But seriously, you're too late to wring your hands over Europe. Maybe you forgot the Holy Roman Empire, maybe you forgot the Austria-Hungarian Empire, maybe you forgot the Papal States, the Free City of Danzig, and the four Kingdoms of Spain, but not everybody is so deficient in their recollection of history.

An interesting history lesson, the word state used to be synonymous with nation until the USA redefined it and robbed the individual states of their sovereignty.

No, it wasn't like that at all. You should look up a good etymological record of the word.

If anything, such confusion PREDATED the formation of the United States, when the Colonies were referred to as "states" in some cases.

They had and still have in some cases quite different laws from state to state but every year that goes by the laws get more and more homogenized and the states lose more and more powers to the federal.

Actually, it's because lawyers, and businesses, are advocating uniform and regular standards of legal codes, not a mish-mash of unfathomable obscurities. This is even occurring on an international level. See the UCC, but also the ULC.

The states technically could not comply but only at the cost of not getting their fair share of the federal money.

And if you wanted to talk about that, we already have it, due to the failure of the House to apportion itself properly.

But I suspect you don't.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[TechyImmigrant]

Oh c'mon... It's only 120 million euros. How much is that in Beluga Caviar?

I much prefer osetra.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya, right. The Invisible Hand of Shrugging Atlas. Thing is, the "free market" is now rejoicing and rubbing its hands that its lobbying campaign to "educate" decision makers has turned out so well.
The issue with you neocons/neoliberals is that you don't want to see that as long as the "free maket" can buy laws, they will.

Re: How do you plan to pay for this?

[Midnight Thunder]

I think it may not be that clear cut. Maybe infrastructure vs service? Also, a certain amount of market iniative is needed, otherwise the innovation doesn't happen, unless it is the sort of grand nation project that is far too risky for any private entity.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[techno-vampire]

Look: if you're going to use food as a unit of currency, do it right! How much is that in saffron?

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

The free market could decide this for itself, or local governments could provide incentives for businesses to increase connectivity with voters approving tax credits. Instead, the leftist leadership of this is going to force it on everyone in the EU and raise the already ridiculously high taxes even more to pay for it.

How is there a difference between "tax credits" and other forms of funding/subsidies? Do you really think that "tax credits" are a free lunch (instead of shifting the tax load to others, too), or are you desperately trying to build a strawman against progressive politics?

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Chas]

In the US the 'free market' has created entrenched players who can stifle any advancement to suit their own profits

the free market is way too oversold, I would love to have some socialism driving the development of new technology

"Have you read your manifesto today comrade?"

Yes/No

No? Well, you have been reported to the wifi secret police. Stay where you are. We're coming to award you a free stay in Club Gulag.

I'm sorry, but socialism has basically fucked up just about everything it's ever been exposed to (to a greater or lesser extend). So when some yutz comes along and goes, "I know it doesn't work. But you know what we need? MORE SOCIALISM!" I tend to look at them like the inbred, indoctrinated mouth-breather that they are.

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

...says the inbred mouth-breather

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[Chas]

Ah. Lacking in an ACTUAL argument, you simply fall back on name calling.

Very adult of you. Are you going to fight me next? Maybe book me in the hall?

How cute!

Re:How do you plan to pay for this?

[mrclevesque]

"I'm sorry, but socialism has basically fucked up just about everything it's ever been exposed to"

Public ownership is common in the US, and many many other countries in the world including those with the highest living standards, in other words, a mix of socialism and capitalism is the norm.

So when he said "I would love to have some socialism driving the development of new technology" I'm assuming he meant he would like to see some new tech driven more by user interests and less by the drive for profits at the expense of consumer choice.

So 20,000 euro will disappear in 6000 shitholes

[HornWumpus]

This has to be a payoff of some kind. 20,000 euro isn't enough to pay for significant 'Public Wifi'.

The money will disappear without a trace. Plop.

Starry-eyed idea

[Calydor]

Funding hasn't been secured for this, just to start somewhere.

What kind of speeds are we talking? What kind of data caps? If it's like my current mobile data plan in Germany, 500 MB per month is nothing on today's internet. May as well go without entirely.

Re:Starry-eyed idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Data caps are pointless on open wifi where mac cloning resets your cap.

Re:Starry-eyed idea

[Anonymous Coward]

one must rememeber the point of such connexions, alowing everyone a chance to connect, 500 mb is suficient for news/mail and that is all that is needed for most ppl. especialy if the cap resets daily (local tourist office offers free 30 min conexion per day and despite the fact that I don't use it I can see the point and it works, on the move you can erify your important email, get a train ticket etc. and use a lot less than 500 mb of data)

Re:Starry-eyed idea

[thegarbz]

Speed limits? Datacaps? What are you talking about. In many parts of Europe you can happily walk around connecting to WiFi without concerning yourself with those terms.

Re:Starry-eyed idea

[rtb61]

What kind of access rules, how about I retitle free WiFi to what they really intent SpyFi. The access you are talking about is the access into you and not the other way round. Why free WiFi because SpyFi, that's why.

Re:Starry-eyed idea

[thegarbz]

Why free WiFi? Because access boosts the economy. As for spying, you're naive to think they will do more or less than any other ISP, and stupid if you're not already taking countermeasures*.

*This post not seen by my ISP due to HTTPS.

Cowabunga!

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, if I could download free pizza, it'd be totally radical!!

MEUGA

[Anonymous Coward]

Just another example of how the USA is lagging so far behind the developed world (note: America can no longer be considered *part* of the developed world)

Re:MEUGA

[Anonymous Coward]

America can no longer be considered *part* of the developed world)

Whatever you say, fruitcake.

Re:MEUGA

[Anonymous Coward]

America has free wifi as a patchwork of private services like "attwifi" and "Google Starbucks" and "xfinitywifi".

Re:MEUGA

[Anonymous Coward]

Expand medicare to all ages! Do it now!

Re: MEUGA

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. Half the USA's infrastructure works only at the whim of some corporation (see the recent story about the dismantling of the telephone network) and most of it is held together with string.

Re: MEUGA

[Anonymous Coward]

You actually think the government can provide anything better than the private sector is already providing? The government doesn't build or create anything except endless layers of bureaucracy. If the government declared they were instituting free WiFi the first thing they would do is issue requests for proposals from the private sector vendors to build this government sponsored WiFi project. This will just open up another avenue of graft, rules, and regulations since those are the only value adds the government can offer to any new project or endeavor.

And the biggest fallacy today surrounding the government budget is that the more money an agency or program has correlates with that agency actually doing a better job or providing better service. Any agency or government program moaning about a budget cut would be better off concentrating on managing their costs instead of just asking for more money each year.

Re: MEUGA

[Anonymous Coward]

Remind me, what's this story about?

Oh yes, governments providing what the private sector can't or won't.

Duh. Can't spy on them if they're not connected.

[Anonymous Coward]

We've hit the point where the (depressingly high) percentage of the western world that's willing and able to pay for the privilege of being tracked 24/7 has already done so, so now it's time to pick up the stragglers by giving it away for free. The ones who still refuse will eventually be forced in as it gets increasingly difficult to participate in the modern world without internet access.

then the wifi allergy

[Cryofan]

back a few years ago when it looked like maybe there might be a wireless alternative to comcast time warner, there was a sudden explosion of people and nonprofit organizations claiming that there were many people suffering from wifi sensitivity...I believe that these were bogus claims being backed by money from comcast, time warner etc...watch for wifi allergy complaints to make a comeback if this idea takes off

Re:then the wifi allergy

[Anonymous Coward]

According to the Terminal Man, anyone with a pacemaker should suffer cardiac explosion.

Re:then the wifi allergy

[Obfuscant]

back a few years ago when it looked like maybe there might be a wireless alternative to comcast time warner,

Might be? We've had wireless internet in this area for a decade now at least. I'd say there can be a wireless alternative, if only someone thought there would be profit in providing it.

And don't get me started on how useless the local uni has made the 2.4G band by blanketing campus in WiFi nodes. It's so bad that you can find places where you can't use a bluetooth headset and the headset is 6 inches from the device.

wifi sensitivity...I believe that these were bogus claims being backed by money from comcast, time warner etc.

It's fun to spread conspiracy theories, but don't discount the dumb factor and fear of the unknown. Comcast has nothing to gain from panic over wireless electric meters, yet there is a public backlash against them based on "wireless sensitivity" and "cancer" and "boogeyman".

Re:then the wifi allergy

[Cryofan]

eat shiat

Re:then the wifi allergy

[thegarbz]

watch for wifi allergy complaints to make a comeback if this idea takes off

This is the EU, not the USA. We actually have mental health care here.

What about cellular carriers?

[mi]

If my phone can get on WiFi for free, I will not need cellular services — Facetime/WhatsApp/Hangouts some other VoIP will kill cellular service.

Cellular carriers know this and are sitting on their hands. I predict one (or more of the following):

The free WiFi will suck Though this goes without saying, because it will be government-managed, it will suck especially badly to keep people from cancelling their cell-plans the way they are already cancelling their "land" lines. The free WiFi will be limited Your ability to use it will be limited to, say, 2 hours per day — trying to evade the limit by changing your MAC-address will be illegal. Joining such a WiFi will require explicit agreement to a giant "sign your rights away" sheet, which no one will read. This means, the joining will not be automatic — when traveling from one municipality to another, you'll have to keep accepting the terms. And then someone will read it, find all sorts of potentially-troubling privacy implications and advise people to keep using their traditional cell-service. The popular VoIP services will be blocked Net-neutrality? What's that? No, that's only for the evil KKKorporations, that charge money. The benevolent government service-providers, that give you the service for free, will be exempt — the way Amtrak is already exempt in the US. The existing carriers will be co-opted into building this infrastructure Instead of competing with each other, however, and trying to attract customers, the carriers will divide the market and provide the service for "free" to captive tax-payers. And yet, considering the alternatives, this is the best EU-citizens can hope for if this stupid proposal gains any traction.

Fellow Americans can get a taste of the "free" government-provided WiFi by buying an Amtrak ticket and trying to use Amtrak's WiFi during their trip...

Re:What about cellular carriers?

[Obfuscant]

Fellow Americans can get a taste of the "free" government-provided WiFi by buying an Amtrak ticket and trying to use Amtrak's WiFi during their trip...

Amtrak is quite up-front about the limits on the WiFi they provide and why. They aren't intending to be a full service ISP.

Re:What about cellular carriers?

[mi]

Amtrak is quite up-front about the limits on the WiFi they provide and why.

So would've been Facebook's "Free Basics" Internet-service in poor countries — denounced by all the progressives and, indeed, banned by India's government already... Because KKKorporations are evil and mean only to enslave you, whereas government-provided services always have good reasons for their limitations...

They aren't intending to be a full service ISP.

However you justify its deficiencies, the "free WiFi" being discussed will use the same justifications for sucking...

Re:What about cellular carriers?

[Anonymous Coward]

retard

Re: What about cellular carriers?

[Anonymous Coward]

So would've been Facebook's "Free Basics" Internet-service in poor countries â" denounced by all the progressives and, indeed, banned by India's government already...

Yep, Facebook wanted to create a vertical integration network, a reprise of AOL, and India decided that they didn't want it, so poor Facebook wasn't given the billions in tax subsidies they wanted. What a pity.

Next you'll be telling me somebody refused to let McDonald's put up one of its garish signs.

Because KKKorporations are evil and mean only to enslave you, whereas government-provided services always have good reasons for their limitations...

Oh poor mi, he doesn't realize that the limitations Amtrak has are the same any similar entity could implement. Hospitals, fast food joints, hotels, motels, malls, libraries and your Aunt June's Brothel could all do the same.

It's the difference between being an ISP and well, not being one.

Same reason I can let you make a phone call from my house and not become a telecommunications company.

mi, not only is your argument tendentious, it is based on a falsehood, and when confronted on it, instead of realizing your error, you repeat it.

Why don't you just stop? If nothing else, you should stop taking money for what you know is a losing argument.

Re:Duh. Can't spy on them if they're not connected

[Anonymous Coward]

Duh, learn to visit SSL enabled websites. Even porn sites do it nowadays, so i'm pretty sure nobody but then knows my porn habits. And maybe Google. But that's on secure pipeline as well.

Re:Duh. Can't spy on them if they're not connected

[Anonymous Coward]

Your ISP knows you're going to pornhub, but once you're there, they can't tell if you're watching golden showers vids or the submissive male vids.

Underlying ideology

[manu0601]

EU loves infrastructure projects that serves its only true goal: create an optimum currency zone.

This project require capital and labor to be perfectly mobile within the zone, hence the subsided transport and communication projects where free market failed to create the approriate conditions

What enormous coverage you have

[Anonymous Coward]

The better to track you with, my dear, said the big bad wolf.

Just Equipment Not Service

[Anonymous Coward]

As I found out in April many European Hotel chains employ geoblocking against patrons who are not European.

So likely the "service" will also geoblock non-Europeans.

Re:Just Equipment Not Service

[jawtheshark]

Can you elaborate? I don't understand geoblocking in this context? Did hotel chains refuse to provide (paying or free) Internet because you are not a EU citizen?

Surveillance for.. everybody!

[Anonymous Coward]

It is free, so what is the catch? I am thinking free wifi across the WU probably must be based on police state bs. Make surveillance easy!

You are the product! Something a particular technologist once said.

Re:Surveillance for.. everybody!

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, is there any known situation elsewhere, where wifi has been offered at a large scale?

Re:Surveillance for.. everybody!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wifi at McDonalds?

Re:Duh. Can't spy on them if they're not connected

[tlhIngan]

We've hit the point where the (depressingly high) percentage of the western world that's willing and able to pay for the privilege of being tracked 24/7 has already done so, so now it's time to pick up the stragglers by giving it away for free. The ones who still refuse will eventually be forced in as it gets increasingly difficult to participate in the modern world without internet access.

How funny it is. When free WiFi came out over a decade ago everyone flocked it to for free internet access. I think Starbucks was one of the first pioneers of the idea. Then came demand for every other store and company to provide free WiFi access for their customers, which really took off during the iPhone revolution (2007). Then municipalities started getting involved and offering free WiFi inside places like libraries and such and some even blanketed their towns in it. Others offered small hot spots for it.

And now, whenever someone offers to create free WiFi areas, it's treated as a way to spy on users or people want to know what the limits are. Funny how speed or limits never really factored into it before.

What a society we live in today/

And queue the censoring of speech....

[PontifexMaximus]

We all know this will happen. Those idiots in the EU will block all news regarding refugee terrorists, dissenting voices on all the left-wing governmental bullshit and promote anti-right wing news. Good luck with that, fuckwits.