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Trump Misunderstood MIT Climate Research, University Officials Say (reuters.com)

MIT officials said U.S. President Donald Trump badly misunderstood their research when he cited it on Thursday to justify withdrawing the United States from the Paris Climate Agreement. From a report: Trump announced during a speech at the White House Rose Garden that he had decided to pull out of the landmark climate deal, in part because it would not reduce global temperatures fast enough to have a significant impact. "Even if the Paris Agreement were implemented in full, with total compliance from all nations, it is estimated it would only produce a two-tenths of one degree Celsius reduction in global temperature by the year 2100," Trump said. "Tiny, tiny amount." That claim was attributed to research conducted by MIT, according to White House documents seen by Reuters. The Cambridge, Massaschusetts-based research university published a study in April 2016 titled "How much of a difference will the Paris Agreement make?" showing that if countries abided by their pledges in the deal, global warming would slow by between 0.6 degree and 1.1 degrees Celsius by 2100. "We certainly do not support the withdrawal of the U.S. from the Paris agreement," said Erwan Monier, a lead researcher at the MIT Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change, and one of the study's authors. "If we don't do anything, we might shoot over 5 degrees or more and that would be catastrophic," said John Reilly, the co-director of the program, adding that MIT's scientists had had no contact with the White House and were not offered a chance to explain their work.

21 of 361 comments (clear)

  1. Not "misunderstood" by XXongo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think Trump "misunderstood" the science; he didn't have any understanding of the science in the first place.

    1. Re: Not "misunderstood" by negRo_slim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Science or not, funneling American wealth to third world countries via a non-binding agreement is enough of a reason to oppose participation in this treaty and to be glad it was never submitted to be potentially ratified.

      --
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    2. Re:Not "misunderstood" by gtall · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That would only make him happy because then he'd be the greatest martyr that ever lived. If you really want to cause him pain, then it would be better if he were ignored and the rest of the country moved on without him and his alleged administration.

    3. Re: Not "misunderstood" by butchersong · · Score: 5, Informative

      That would be pretty much any treaty that has properly gone through the senate.

    4. Re:Not "misunderstood" by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you want to hit Trump where it hurts, you get him in the one thing that he really values: himself. I don't want to see him assassinated. Beyond that fact that it's a bad idea to call for the death of any US President - no matter the reason - it wouldn't "fix" this problem. Instead, I want to see him kicked out of office, jailed, and for his name to become toxic. When people think "Nixon", they think of a crook. I want his name to represent so much worse to the point that nobody wants anything to do with the name "TRUMP". That would really hurt Donald as his name seems to be the thing he values above all else. (I will apologize to anyone who happens to have the Trump last name, though.)

      --
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    5. Re:Not "misunderstood" by Ichijo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" --Upton Sinclair, 1935

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    6. Re: Not "misunderstood" by Barsteward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Believe it or not, USA is NOT the only contributor to the Paris Agreement, the USA contribution is only 3% of the total figure. So you want to pollute and let everyone else clear up the mess. We all have responsibilities to this planet.
      "Per capita, however, the U.S. pumped out more CO2 than China and India combined in 2015. On average, each individual living in the United States contributed 16.07 tons to the country’s total. But each individual living in China and India contributed 7.73 and 1.87 tons on average, respectively." quote from https://www.usatoday.com/story...

      --
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    7. Re: Not "misunderstood" by Bradac_55 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Try reading it.

      India specifically gets US dollars to fund it's green industry pretty much forever. China gets to keep uping emissions for 13 years and then the US pays them to use green energy that they are already building. Russia just gets to ignore the entire thing.

      Several other 3rd world countries also gets US dollars but not as bad as the above. It was a horrible accord that only an idiot would sign *John Kerry*

    8. Re: Not "misunderstood" by Paradigma11 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why are you using per-capita output? The atmosphere doesn't care about per-capita output.

      And China and India are INCREASING their emissions and will continue to do so as they develop and each capita demands a higher standard of living. Their options are to increase pollution or kill a bunch of people. (Or, considering their governments and social structures, why not both?)

      What else than a per capita output?

      Would you give Luxembourg the same CO2 allowance as india?

      Kepping less developed countries down by restricting their CO2 output to a fraction of those in the US won't fly this day and age.

    9. Re: Not "misunderstood" by slew · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why are you using per-capita output? The atmosphere doesn't care about per-capita output.

      And China and India are INCREASING their emissions and will continue to do so as they develop and each capita demands a higher standard of living. Their options are to increase pollution or kill a bunch of people. (Or, considering their governments and social structures, why not both?)

      What else than a per capita output?

      Would you give Luxembourg the same CO2 allowance as india?

      Kepping less developed countries down by restricting their CO2 output to a fraction of those in the US won't fly this day and age.

      How about per-industrial-GDP? India has about 1/2 the CO2 emissions of the US, but only 1/9 the industrial-GDP** and 1/5 the exports...

      By simply using per capita measures, you ignore that some countries have more export and more industrial GDP per capita. By simply assigning CO2 emission targets per capita for a country, you are essentially transferring the equilibrium industrial and export-related jobs from one country to another country. Depending on your politics this is either the only fair thing to do, not fair at all, inevitable, or unfortunate.

      **the total GDP of the US is about 9x that of India and both India and the US have about 20% of their GDP as industrial GDP, so by extrapolation the industrial-GDP of the US also about 9x that of India...

    10. Re: Not "misunderstood" by quantaman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Try reading it.

      India specifically gets US dollars to fund it's green industry pretty much forever. China gets to keep uping emissions for 13 years and then the US pays them to use green energy that they are already building. Russia just gets to ignore the entire thing.

      Several other 3rd world countries also gets US dollars but not as bad as the above. It was a horrible accord that only an idiot would sign *John Kerry*

      So what part do you disagree with?

      1) The part that global warming is a real and serious problem.

      Or 2) the part where the US helps other countries reduce their emissions, as a result of the US being one of the nations most responsible for the problem, who benefited the most from prior emissions, and who is most capable of dealing with the problem.

      I think #1 is quite true, and once you accept #1 then #2 makes a lot of sense as well. For all the talk of cash transfers to 3rd world countries many on the right seem to think the only "fair" way to deal with global warming is for the West to keep living like kings while the developing world goes pre-industrial.

      --
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  2. Huh? by wbr1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Misunderstood? Or willfully misconstrued to fit an agenda?

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  3. How diplomatic of them by chispito · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is a difference between "misrepresented" and "misunderstood."

    --
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  4. Re:Of course it was Trump by thebullshitpatrol · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Holding the president accountable for decisions that his brand, and whoever is associated with it, makes?

    Is there any president who we give a pass for making retarded world-scope decisions because of "jargon, confusing verbiage, and passive voice"? Maybe if the president of the united states and his advisors can't reason with jargon, confusing verbiage, and passive voice, they should look into alternate career paths.

    Maybe Obama just misunderstood the TPP.

  5. Let's focus on the trivial by XXongo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Science or not, funneling American wealth to third world countries via a non-binding agreement is enough of a reason to oppose participation in this treaty and to be glad it was never submitted to be potentially ratified.

    The amount of "American wealth" that is "funneled to third world countries" is so small a number that you can't even see it in the pie chart of the government budget expenditures. It is absolutely and completely negligible.

    If that's your objection, you are focussing on the trivial.

    (The one exception here is American aid to Israel, if you want to call Israel a third-world country; totaling $127.4 billion. But most of that it military aid, not energy.)

    1. Re:Let's focus on the trivial by penandpaper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How is disagreeing with the political solution akin to "somehow believe they've falsified an entire field of research"?

      You can think AGW is real and disagree on funneling money to poor nations. In addition, you can disagree with how much foreign aid Isreal receives and disagree on money transfer in the Paris Accord. These things are not mutually exclusive.

    2. Re:Let's focus on the trivial by peragrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Republicans love saying things like foreign aid and welfare as they get reported in dollars where as military spending that only gets reported in percentages that make little sense unless you have seen the entire budget breakdown. Letting them argue over pennies when thousands are being wasted elsewhere.

      The whole us budget is online in lots of charts and grafts. I encourage people to take a look at the entire budget what comes in what goes out and what is the total spent on various aspects. Forget any political sound bite that shows just how screwed up Washington is.

      We start the year in a hole because Washington assumes 3-5% growth in taxes to start budgeting. Then you have politicians using GDP when they mean annual revenue. The military is 11% of the GDP but 30% of revenue. GDP doesn't apply to capitalist countries. Using it as a meteric is misleading at best and close to outright lying

      --
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  6. Re:Did he misunderstand the bit about gender equal by heck · · Score: 5, Informative
    So I went and looked it up. They have specific reasons cited, namely:

    Women commonly face higher risks and greater burdens from the impacts of climate change in situations of poverty, and the majority of the world’s poor are women.

    and

    Parties to the UNFCCC have recognized the importance of involving women and men equally in UNFCCC processes and in the development and implementation of national climate policies that are gender-responsive by establishing a dedicated agenda item under the Convention addressing issues of gender and climate change and by including overarching text in the Paris Agreement

    So...my interpretation of the above is: don't just focus on the issues of a specific group but make sure this is for the common good, because lord knows the history of modern (or past) civilizations doesn't have a bad tendency to focus on certain groups which may be in power and not work for the common good.

    yeah, I don't have a problem with what they are saying now that I understand it. They have an effing valid point.

  7. Re:Of course it was Trump by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not to put too fine a point on the issue but...

    Was it Trump who misunderstood the study, or government advisers?

    Many Trump advisors such as Musk and Iger, along with the CEOs of massive businesses including Exxon and Chevron (oil companies!), Microsoft, Apple, Goldman Sachs, GE, etc told Trump leaving the Paris Accords was a bad idea. Several, specifically Musk and Iger, have already stepped down from advisory councils. The only advisor Trump trusts is Trump. He has explicitly said so.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  8. 1/5 of a degree C is not a "tiny amount". by hey! · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sure, it makes no difference to whether you want to put a sweater on, but that's not the point. The troposphere is vast, and 0.2 C represents an immense amount of kinetic energy, which in turn drives dramatic changes in circulation and precipitation patterns. You can get a sense for this by calculating how much energy an average of 0.2 C represents.

    Start with this: how much does a cubic meter of air weigh? Have you ever thought about that? A cubic meter of dry air at sea level weighs about 2.7 pounds. How much energy does it take to raise 2.7 pounds of dry air by 0.2 degrees? It turns out you can look that kind of thing up. It takes about 245 joules.

    Now take that 245 joules/m^3 and multiply it by the volume of the troposphere. As you recall from calculus, you can approximate this by taking the surface area of a sphere 6,371,000 meters in radius and multiplying by the troposphere's roughly 11 km height. You should end up with a figure on the order of magnitude of 10^18 joules.

    Or you can think of that as being roughly the same as 20,000 Hiroshima sized bombs. Granted the density of air 10 km up is somewhat less, but we haven't factored in the gigatons of water vapor in the atmosphere. Or interactions with the oceans; most of the excess energy goes into the oceans, and that in turn affects climate in countless ways. That's how palm trees grow in Southern Britain, even though Cornwall's further north than Maine.

    And yet... You just can't feel a 0.2C change. Then again you can't feel the Coriolis force either, but that can bend a subtle pressure gradient hundreds of miles long into a cyclone, a feat no human agency can resist, much less match.

    Scale matters. If there's anything scientific and mathematical literacy should teach, it's that. That's why the future of the planet can't be trusted to a semi-literate ignoramus.

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  9. Re:Comments from MIT Climate Scientist Dr. Lindzen by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

    I looked into Lindzen's arguments ten years ago when he was the darling of the denialist movement. I stopped bothering when he made a statistical argument that was completely invalid for any data sample that has serial correlation. Any MIT student who'd passed 18.05 would be able to spot that.

    He's a crackpot, like Andrew Wakefield is on vaccinations. Wakefield too had impressive academic associations; he got his medical degree from the Imperial College School of Medicine, which is harder to get into than Harvard Medical School, and was a fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons. He was also a crackpot.

    The only difference between Wakefield and Lindzen is that science is a lot more tolerant of crackpots than medicine is.

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