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Apple Announces New iMacs With Better Screens And Modern Processors; Refreshes MacBook Lineup (arstechnica.com)

Posted by msmash on from the new-shiny-computers dept.

Apple today announced updates to its iMac line and MacBook lineups at WWDC, giving its all-in-one desktop, and laptop series more powerful specifications and the latest Intel chips. From a report: Apple is bringing Intel's 7th generation Kaby Lake processors to the new iMac, along with what Apple calls "the best Mac display ever," offering 500 nits of brightness, or 43 percent brighter than the previous generation. The 21.5-inch model now can be configured up to 32GB of RAM, while the 27-inch goes up to 64GB, twice what had previously been offered. The new iMacs also are getting two Thunderbolt 3 USB-C ports, making it Apple's first desktop computer to embrace the port standard. Graphics cards are getting a spec boost in the updated iMacs, too. The entry level 21.5-inch model will have an Intel Iris Plus 640 GPU, while the 4K 21.5-inch models will get Radeon Pro 555 and 560 graphics cards. Meanwhile, the 27-inch 5K model will have a choice of Radeon Pro 570, 575, and 580 graphics cards, topping out at 8GB of VRAM. The 21.5-inch iMac will start at $1099 and the 4K 21.5-inch model at $1299. As expected, Apple also refreshed the MacBook lineup. From a report: Today Apple provided a minor but wide-ranging refresh to its modern MacBooks and MacBook Pros, adding new processors from Intel and making a handful of other tweaks. The new processors are from Intel's "Kaby Lake" family, and some of them have been available for the better part of a year. Compared to the outgoing Skylake architecture, Kaby Lake introduces a gently tweaked version of Intel's 14nm manufacturing process, provides small boosts to CPU clock speeds, and supports native acceleration for decoding and encoding some kinds of 4K video streams.

134 comments

  1. First... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Post

    1. Re:First... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fake news

  2. 18-core processor... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Will the 18-core processor be the new one that Intel recently announced or the older 18-core processor for servers?

    1. Re:18-core processor... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Yes. The i9s Intel announced are just cut down Xeons. They're the same fucking thing.

    2. Re: 18-core processor... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Not quite. They are (like all the previous enthusiast chip, which used to be branded i7) based on the Xeon E5 / E7 die. The desktop chips, meanwhile, share a die with the E3 Xeons.

      They have several things missing: ECC support, muliprocessor support, probably something related to the data bus. But, they are selected carefully to he capable of very high clock speeds, and are unlocked to allow full overclocking: Xeons have nothing like that. Last year's 6950 was a 10 core that was a lot faster than the equivalent 10 core Xeon, for instance.

    3. Re: 18-core processor... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      The iMac Pro uses ECC RAM, it was in the keynote.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    4. Re: 18-core processor... by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      "They are" implies that they have working chips and partner boards at the moment. There is probably an engineering sample running around somewhere of the chips, but the boards they have can't run the higher core chips at full clock, and they gonna have to release a v2 of the 2066 socket to maintain power demands of the 14,16, an 18 core chips. You'll be lucky to see the 18 core released by January, and probably considerably later.

  3. Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Nabeel_co · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Pros still need a real computer that lets us add and remove PCIe cards.

    1. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      I think the external PCIe enclosure you may have seen is the answer to that.

    2. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by slack_justyb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Really? I'm not denying that, but I am questioning it. Programming for some time now and I can't remember the last time I needed to crack open the case to change out an expansion card of all things. I know a couple of folks in the graphic arts department and likewise, most of their editing and asset management hasn't required a change of things that would typically go into a PCIe slot. So I am curious as to which fields require a constant refresh of what's in the PCIe slots?

      Now if we are talking gaming, end user side, I can see that. So with a flexible enough definition we can call them professional? I'm a little out of the gaming loop so I don't want to grant a title to gaming that it doesn't have, but at the same time don't want to snub a legitimate group there. But gaming development, of which I don't do (sorry mostly deal with standard grade C++ and database programming) maybe then there's a need for it?

      I'm just struggling to put a solid finger on who exactly needs a constant refresh of cards but at the same time doesn't need a refresh of CPU/RAM/etc at the same time. Is this a common thing in that industry? Not hating on your comment or anything but it now has my curiosity peaked.

    3. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      Apple promised a refresh of Mac Pros in 2018 and indicated it would be a "modular" system.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FUCKING THIS!!!! And Gimme 6 hotswap SAS drives for fucks sake!

    5. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For me, it's a need for varied hardware reconfigurations (removing/adding RAID controller, extra NICs, etc.) for testing purposes. For some, it's less about upgrading, and more about flexibility... I could leave RAID, Infiniband, NICs all in the same machine most of the time, but that's a load of extra heat and power to deal with. The external enclosures seem to jive nicely with this. I find USB devices to be unacceptable for many of these purposes; while convenient, the obnoxious connector (hoping the type C connector becomes ubiquitous as quickly as possible) and inherent requirement of constant CPU involvement is a deal-breaker.

    6. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by drhamad · · Score: 2

      What about Thunderbolt and Thunderbolt enclosures, though?

      --
      -Daniel
    7. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      My big concern about the Macs in general, isn't the quality of the upgrade, but the lack of them in the past few years.

      The 2002-2012 Macs where really the premium system you can get. But after that they just kinda lagged and updated some of the specs to make sure they are not obsolete.
      I was a Mac user, then I switched over to Lenovo Think Pads. Because if I am going to get a boring old laptop. I might as well get one that is solid. For me to switch back, Apple will need to show evidence of a long term commitment to their mac lines.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    8. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      No we really dont. only reason I built an ATX machine this last time with the 7700K is because you have no other choice but to do a full PC.

      The motherboard came with everything I would ever need outside of the pair of GTX1080 Ti video cards and I will not upgrade them ever. When that time arrives, the whole box get's replaced. I'm betting the screws will never be removed unless I have SSD drive failures.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    9. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by enjar · · Score: 3, Insightful
      GPU capability has been outstripping CPU capability for some time, and are easily upgraded as PCI devices. In terms of compute, the nVidia 1060 GPU was introduced in 2009 and could do 77.6 GFLOPS of doubles computation. There have been five generations since (Fermi, Kepler, Maxwell, Pascal, Volta). Pascal is the most widely available and can do something like 5000 (yes, 5000) GFLOPs of doubles. On the consumer grade gaming cards in the GeForce line there have been pretty much the same generational leaps, plus the development of high DPI screens, 4K monitors, etc. Given that companies will buy PCs for a three or four year lifetime, depending on how things fall you could update the GPU 2-3 times and extend the life of the machine, especially if you also do something like move from a spinning HDD to a SSD as well.

      In comparison, processor speed, core counts and RAM amounts have increased only modestly, and for many users the currently available amounts of RAM are still OK.

    10. Re: Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meanwhile, the machine I built last year after the 1080 came out has a 970, and I will probably upgrade to an "11xx" or "12xx" in two to four years, and I added a wifi pci card and an M.2 pci card a bit after build time.

    11. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2

      Apple promised a refresh of Mac Pros in 2018

      What they actually said was "not this year." And while it may well be in 2018, they didn't say that.

    12. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by slack_justyb · · Score: 2

      GPU capability has been outstripping CPU capability for some time

      I get that GPU speeds have been on the rise, but a GPU cannot do everything a CPU can. So upgrading a GPU isn't exactly like upgrading a CPU. Additionally, GPU can only help with software specifically written to use that kind of acceleration. Each element in a GPU by itself is slower than a CPU so the speed bump only comes when a task can be spread across as many elements as possible. That is, while 77.6 GFLOPS might be what it can do, you have to be able to spread your task out enough to get to that value. And if we are just focusing on GPUs as a rationale for changing out the PCIe slots, what professional industry actually does that? I once had a gig at a university's chemical engineering department and even then they just sent modeling compounds off to a farm, where I can understand the need to change out regularly. But what profession is doing it regularly at the workstation? I would assume that the real players that need this massive parallel processing are farming it out to specially built rigs.

      I see your high DPI and 4K monitor statement there. Is that a common case? Everywhere I look in cube-ville here it's basically, you get a monitor upgrade when you get a computer upgrade. Are there industries that are actively switching to 4K and swapping out the card as opposed to just getting a new system altogether? How often does that happen? Do I need to walk into my boss' cube and demand a 4K monitor? I don't know why but I find all of this absolutely fascinating.

    13. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by enjar · · Score: 1
      Where I work we have code and software used for GPGPU computing using CUDA. I have servers that have been in service for about four years now and are approaching end of life. They have had three generations of GPUs in them. More recent developments in machine learning/neural nets/machine vision are using the Pascal cards (GTX 1080, Titan, 1080Ti) to do that kind of work. For $1000 or less you can get 12 teraflops of single precision math out of those things. That was a significant improvement from the earlier GTX generations, and those certainly fit in workstation's in a PCI slot. With our workstations lasting 3-4 years that could be two generations of these things, maybe three.

      For screen upgrades we did do a big update where everyone got a second monitor, the number of requests hit a tipping point when it just made sense to have that as a standard config. We have looked at replacing the two screens with one larger one, too, which could be done as a big switch depending on if volume buying could get a better deal. When you start talking about getting big batches you can get some nice discounting. I would say that this case is far more rare than the combo box/screen update, which is easier to manage from a logistics perspective.

    14. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      I'm just struggling to put a solid finger on who exactly needs a constant refresh of cards but at the same time doesn't need a refresh of CPU/RAM/etc at the same time.

      Programmers for games, 3D animators, and anyone doing any GPU intensive activities. GPUs are making decent strides in performance while CPUs are remaining relatively lame in comparison. As we load the GPUs up more and more it is finding a new purpose as one of the most critical components in a computer. /Disclaimer: I'm on my 3rd GPU upgrade on my 6 year old CPU and RAM combo which I still don't feel the need to touch.

    15. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Question: Will these new Macs finally support OpenGL 4.5? As far as I can tell, the highest version that Apple currently supports (as of Feb 9, 2017) is OpenGL 4.1.

      OpenGL 4.1 was released almost 7 years ago on July 26, 2010, and OpenGL 4.5 was released almost 3 years ago on August 11, 2014. That means Apple is stuck 13-14 GPU generations behind Windows and Linux, which have been using OpenGL 4.5 for the past 5-6 GPU generations.

      p.s. Don't tell me to use Metal/Vulkan, and don't tell me to check for OpenGL extensions. Either they pass the OpenGL 4.5 version check, or I won't bother buying a Mac so I can support the platform.

    16. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Good point. It looks like a lot of the press are just calling it the "2018 Mac Pro", even though Apple never actually gave a firm date.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    17. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      Yes. The iMac "pro", which they showed yesterday, will appease a reasonable portion of the people waiting (and waiting) on a new Mac Pro. But not all, of course.

    18. Re: Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny you should mention that; we have an old Supermicro box pushing multiple new P100s right now.

    19. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      From what I understand, they also refreshed the current Mac Pro model as well, so people who happen to need high-end Mac hardware *now* at least have some better options.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    20. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Tamerlin · · Score: 1

      It IS a common thing in film production; being able to add a video I/O box is a huge asset for a computer being used for media work. A good graphics card isn't always enough, you also need to be able to get an SDI I/O option in order to use software like PreLight, for example.

      For serious media production, you need a LOT more computing power than for programming... for working with for example 8K footage in real time while grading, or with dual 4K streams at 120fps... hence Baselight X includes a couple of GPUs.

      I'm sure there are other examples, but most programmers aren't anywhere near the most demanding users, as far as computing power goes.

    21. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

      That's very interesting, thank you. So GPUs play an important role in neural nets? I can see where that would be very important to people like Facebook and what not. Additionally, I would assume that they have big GPU setups in the workstations to allow for slicing and dicing of data sets from some server.

      I guess being mostly in a text editor I don't see the fuss over 4K monitors, but I figured that for people with spreadsheets and presentations and handling assets like our digital media department does here, that they would be important. Good to know. Thanks for your time kind stranger.

    22. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

      Programmers for games, 3D animators

      I assumed as much, but I would have figured that the major amounts of rendering would be done on a farm while the modeling would be done on the workstation. But I assume that we've progressed to a point that work stations are now doing a lot more work than just the basic modeling and the farm is doing even more complicated things?

      Thanks!

    23. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by enjar · · Score: 1
      GPUs play a very large role in deep/machine learning, which includes among other things:
      • image classification (facial recognition, what's in an image, detection of cancer from mammograms), automated driving and the like
      • natural language processing (Siri, Google assistant, Amazon Echo)

      As for 4k monitors, with pretty much every reference being online, more screen area is great. A developer in our organization might have an IDE open, Stack Overflow, some other browser tabs, mail client, our application, etc.

    24. Re: Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pros can afford to upgrade all of it like he talks about, Mine is replaced completely every year. You are a hobbyist that thinks they are a pro, if you were pro you would have the budget to do a complete replacement every 12 months. Because the speed increase you get will make you more money than the cost of the new box. The GP said "professionals" and I assume that is what Lumpy was talking about, Professionals that actually make money with their computer

    25. Re: Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By that definition, making money with a computer, a starving artist that makes money with a computer is a pro. Why would you need to afford to buy a whole new PC every year? (half the time with the same CPU and motherboard as last year, 6700K vs 7700K doesn't count and 5960X vs 6900K doesn't count)
      This goes the other way : a $150K/year engineer or software "engineer" working at some company is a proletarian.

      I hope you never plug a USB mouse or something, because that's a change in hardware configuration and that would make you a hobbyist.

    26. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Oh rendering still is done on a farm, but don't underestimate just how much effort goes into making that GPU fan spin while modelling.

      But I came up with anther one looking farther down in the replies. There's a bitching about HEVC vs AV1 and hardware decoders. ... Video editors, the once bread and butter of Apple. They may have some desire to either upgrade their GPU for something which processes some CUDA code faster or, something more dedicated like this: http://www.advantech.com/produ..., though I note that they don't list Mac as being supported.

      Try convincing someone of a video product not supporting mac 10 years ago ....

    27. Re:Great upgrade to Mac Pro, but... by Shadowmist · · Score: 1

      For what? bragging rights? Pros need computers that WORK. They don't get paid for wasting their time getting their machines to work. They want to be using their machines TO MAKE MONEY. If I get a new workstation, I want to be spending my time in Photoshop, not hoping that the drivers for the card I just put in will actually work. Or finding out which expansion I put in, put everything else out of whack.

  4. Give me some fucking ports... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't give a crap if the new macbook is a hair slimmer.. give me back some usable ports. Really don't want to buy (then have to search for) an adapter every time I want to use a peripheral

  5. I'm announcing kaby lake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Processor core coffee kaby lake. Blah blah blah blah. Now with Gigabytes!

    1. Re:I'm announcing kaby lake by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Ah, so now we know what El Presidente was babbling about.

      Covfefe lake.

  6. Entry Level by netean · · Score: 1

    "The [entry level] 21.5-inch iMac will start at $1099" :

    Entry level for $1110

    LMFAO

  7. Another media consumption device by pablo_max · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So... for over $3k (27inch) Apple has seen fit to grace this thing with a 580 card? Something in the range of a NVIDIA GTX 1060, which can be had for about 260 bucks?
    I guess they really have given up on the desktop market.

    1. Re:Another media consumption device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Something in the range of a NVIDIA GTX 1060, which can be had for about 260 bucks?

      I'm no Apple fanboy (I own nothing of theirs), but are you comparing gaming benchmarks? I assure you that the target market for these machines are users of applications that would perform vastly better on a Radeon Pro 580 than a GTX 1060.

    2. Re:Another media consumption device by nine-times · · Score: 2

      I guess they really have given up on the desktop market.

      It's more that Apple has never really gone after the gaming market.

    3. Re:Another media consumption device by pablo_max · · Score: 0

      Desktop does not automatically equal "gaming".

      We are in the early days of VR and MR. Both of these things require heavy graphics cards to keep you from puke all over your shiny new headset.
      Even Microsoft has clearly seen that VR is here now and working to push productivity apps to VR.
      It is an exciting time for computing. Unfortunately, Apple has decided that "Sheeple TM" will not be attending this future.

    4. Re:Another media consumption device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Even Microsoft has clearly seen that VR is here now and working to push productivity apps to VR.
      It is an exciting time for computing. Unfortunately, Apple has decided that "Sheeple TM" will not be attending this future.

      Apple made the right call. VR is the technology of the future, and always will be.

      Sure, Microsoft can waste a lot of time and treasure creating this:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFkyV7d5t8o

      Apple is going to focus on things people want to buy; overpriced mediocre hardware with brand appeal.
      Nobody looks cool in a VR headset.

    5. Re:Another media consumption device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I love how any post defending Apple has to be prefaced by "not an Apple fanboy". It just proves Apple puts out so much crap that you would have to assume only someone blindly in love with the company would defend them.

    6. Re:Another media consumption device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's probably more down to the tediously predictable nature of Slashdot posts these days.

      (I love the captchas though.)

    7. Re:Another media consumption device by Shadowmist · · Score: 1

      So... for over $3k (27inch) Apple has seen fit to grace this thing with a 580 card? Something in the range of a NVIDIA GTX 1060, which can be had for about 260 bucks? I guess they really have given up on the desktop market.

      Not that, they've never been for what YOU consider the desktop market, that very small slice of users who rips open their machine and replaces a graphic card every time a new generation of games comes out. Apple's never been for the hardcore gaming market, and there really isn't any point since even Blizzard is retrenching on Apple support. The Mac desktop market is focusing on productivity and artistic creativity markets.

    8. Re:Another media consumption device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I 'assure' you the target market for this doesn't use applications that require much GFX power at all. Apple lost the legitimate prosumer market half a decade ago, and their enterprise footprint is a joke. If you're buying one of these, you're doing it for the glowing logo, and Apple knows that even it's fans have gotten tetchy about not having the latest silicon on their very expensive blogging machines.

    9. Re: Another media consumption device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you have the VR headset on, nothing in meatspace matters. Furthermore, alashdot is not the place for fashion nancies who worry over "looking cool." Try an Apple-centric blog.

    10. Re: Another media consumption device by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Yes, looking cool is exactly what basement gamers look for.

    11. Re:Another media consumption device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      By the time VR/AR becomes actually viable for anything other than geeks and games, we'll be enough years down the track that the standard built in GPU in a MacBook at the time will cope with it just fine.

    12. Re:Another media consumption device by Teckla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We are in the early days of VR and MR.

      I'm going to go out on a limb and predict VR is going to be the new 3D TV.

    13. Re:Another media consumption device by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      But metal 2 will make sure the CPU can do so much more. The low end gpu will not have to work as much and it will all be ok.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    14. Re: Another media consumption device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those who strap new worlds to their heads must be tremendously unhappy with this world

      Meatspace is the only one that matters, or exists.

      Enjoy nothing, when that's all you have left...oops you've probably always HAD nothing.

    15. Re: Another media consumption device by tigersha · · Score: 1

      Considering how they pimp their rigs ... I was looking for a workstation mobo recently and was dismayed to find a review that extolled how sexy and fashionable the colors on the chipset and heatsinks was. We are talking about an X99 board here, for a Xeon

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    16. Re: Another media consumption device by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "They damaged his nervous system with a wartime Russian mycotoxin.

      "Strapped to a bed in a Memphis hotel, his talent burning out micron by micron, he hallucinated for thirty hours.

      "The damage was minute, subtle, and utterly effective.

      "For Case, who'd lived for the bodiless exultation of cyberspace, it was the Fall. In the bars he'd frequented as a cowboy hotshot, the elite stance involved a certain relaxed contempt for the flesh. The body was meat. Case fell into the prison of his own flesh."

  8. Still no decent Mac Pro, Mac Mini? by Ecuador · · Score: 1

    I am still holding on to my Mid 2010 Mac Pro with its 2xCPU, 2xSSDs, 3xHDs, Bluray etc It even has an HD-DVD which can play my HD-DVD (bought for nothing after the "defeat" of HD-DVD), but that requires a boot to Windows, which I haven't done for at least a couple of years I admit... I am also holding on to my Late 2012 Mac Mini with a Quad Core i7 and 16GB RAM. These were my favorite Apple lines, however I can't upgrade since with a newer version I would get a downgrade in either performance, or expandability/function, or both. So, still waiting... Thanks for looking after power users Apple...

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re:Still no decent Mac Pro, Mac Mini? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      There was no Mac mini on that "Macs" keynote slide. They've already said there's a new Mac Pro being designed, but I think the mini is pretty much dead. I guess we'll know once their store comes back online. Either the Mac mini will have been silently updated to Kabe Lake CPU, they will still be the same as the 2014 "upgrade" or they'll simply be gone.

      Hold on to your quad-core i7 from 2012 because so far, it's the best Mac mini ever made.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:Still no decent Mac Pro, Mac Mini? by Thanatiel · · Score: 1

      The last Mac I'll buy for the foreseeable future.

      Even the craziest Apple fans I know are hesitating to upgrade their desktop and laptops. They still use the phones though.

      --
      Irrelevant news and morons using moderation to mod down what they disagree on. 2018 resolution: so long.
    3. Re:Still no decent Mac Pro, Mac Mini? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Ridiculous, isn't it? The Mini is a great little machine and pretty affordable too. I do my iOS development on one, but it's starting to show its age...

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:Still no decent Mac Pro, Mac Mini? by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Yes, a Mac Mini Pro with the same specs as the iMac Pro would make a very nice desktop machine. But of course they would charge $3,000 for the base version!

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    5. Re:Still no decent Mac Pro, Mac Mini? by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      Yes, a Mac Mini Pro with the same specs as the iMac Pro would make a very nice desktop machine. But of course they would charge $3,000 for the base version!

      I think a large part of the iMac Pro's price has got to be that 5K screen. A display-less Mac Mini could probably be produced and sold much more cheaply, and historically has been.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    6. Re:Still no decent Mac Pro, Mac Mini? by naughtynaughty · · Score: 2

      Same boat as you, 2012 quad 16GB mini. Upgraded since purchased to an SSD and it runs like a champ.

      Apple has zero interest in selling a $600 box that you can hook to your own $300 4k 28" monitor, they want you to buy a $3000 iMac.

  9. Imac pro better have easy open back or it's said j by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Imac pro better have easy open back or it's said joke at $5K.

    What is point of 128G ram and 2 storage slots when you have to buy them at apples prices and can't easily put your own it?

  10. apples prices for ram / hdd / video cards suck by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    apples prices for ram / hdd / video cards suck it at the point to where for the update price you can just buy the bigger one but with apple you need to pay the upgrade price and you don't get to keep the old one.

  11. Get out the Popcorn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's nice to see how people who never would buy an Apple Product anyway, come here just to rant about how bad this lineup is.

    1. Re: Get out the Popcorn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people who would buy are either filling out or in the process of buying a new coloring book. Or having their manbun redone at the salon.

  12. MacBook Pro is still dongle king by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sigh.

  13. Snooze Fest by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As above, this is just the Apple Snooze Fest.

    Minor boosts in some specs, no compelling or interesting new features, but a new, higher price. No ports, no expandability, and lord have mercy on your soul if you ever need to get it repaired.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:Snooze Fest by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Some of it sounds like complete bunk. The screen gets stupidly, retina-burningly bright. Er... Okay. I'll turn that down to 20% so I can stand to look at it for more than 20 seconds.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  14. Re:Imac pro better have easy open back or it's sai by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

    I know that on the iMacs it has always been easy to add/change the RAM yourself. I've had two different models and on both it was a panel that popped out that gave access to RAM. However that doesn't guarantee that Apple will do the same with the Pro.

  15. Why did they wait so long by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yawn..........yet still the pricing stays as high as always.

  16. Still no new 17" ? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

    And no touch screens either?

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  17. MacBook still stuck at 16GB by GabeGhearing · · Score: 3, Informative

    I was hoping they'd add a 32GB option to the highest end MacBook... That's gotta come in the next year or so. It seems that there aren't suppliers for 32GB LPDDR3 setups(LPDDR3 being super-low-power RAM) and Intel CPUs won't support LPDDR4 until the next generation(Cannonlake). LPDDR4 uses a lot less power and supports much higher densities than LPDDR3.

    Intel was supposed to have Cannonlake out last year...

    1. Re:MacBook still stuck at 16GB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, it's been stuck at 16 GB for over seven years! It sucks that in the period of time due to Moore's Law, you'd expect memory to increase by a factor of eight. Instead, Apple gives us ZERO.

    2. Re:MacBook still stuck at 16GB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Redirect your whines to Intel who STILL haven't updated their portable chipsets to support LPDDR4. Apple is the consumer here, not the supplier. As for those who would be fine with energy eating 32 Gb RAM, you don't have a portable PC, you have a transportable one.

    3. Re:MacBook still stuck at 16GB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple is a large enough consumer that if they wanted to, they could request Intel not make garbage crippled computers that are nearly useless for modern software development. Apple hasn't even tried to solve the problem. They've had over seven years to do something, and they have refused to even try to help us.

    4. Re: MacBook still stuck at 16GB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My 64 GB StinkPad proves you wrong. It's a piece of garbage that crashes several times a week and the trackpad quit months ago, but at least I can get some work done.

    5. Re:MacBook still stuck at 16GB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What a load of crap. Real pro users would happily trade an extra millimeter or two of thickness and half a pound at most, in exchange for the extra battery necessary to support the more power-hungry RAM. It's supposed to be a fucking pro machine, not a glorified iPad with a keyboard and real OS.

      The Apple laptop lineup should be:

      • - Current "MacBook" renamed to MacBook Air; drop the old non-retina Air because nobody wants that
      • - Current "MacBook Pro" renamed to "MacBook" - because that's what it is, a mid-range consumer machine
      • - Add a real "MacBook Pro" that's thicker with a bigger battery and supports more fucking memory
    6. Re:MacBook still stuck at 16GB by tigersha · · Score: 1

      Agree agree agree. I want my 64GB

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    7. Re:MacBook still stuck at 16GB by Malc · · Score: 1

      And bring back the 17" display. It makes coding or working with video or photos so much easier when away from an external monitor.

    8. Re:MacBook still stuck at 16GB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My T470 with 32Gb of ram is hardly a “transportable” PC; it’s a perfectly portable 3.6 pound PC and weighs less than the new 15-inch Macbook pro. In terms of battery life, using the standard stock 3-cell battery (instead of the 6-cell expanded battery), I get more than six hours of estimated battery life with the screen at 100% brightness.

  18. Field-upgradable RAM and storage or "no sale" by davidwr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I typically upgrade the RAM and storage at least once during the life of my computers.

    Apple is nice and worth paying for but without a way to upgrade it 2-3 years from now, I'll get a non-Apple notebook the next time I need one.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Field-upgradable RAM and storage or "no sale" by epine · · Score: 1

      I'm with you, 100%

      New Kaby Lake iMacs arrive from Apple

      New iMacs will be upgradeable to 64 GB of RAM on 27-inch configurations and 32 GB RAM on the 21.5-inch models.

      Does "upgradeable" merely mean ka-ching ka-ching pre-sale "configurable" at 4x street price?

      If so, buh bye, sweet spot. No sale.

      Once upon a time I would have trusted Ars to know the difference. These days, I'm not so sure.

    2. Re:Field-upgradable RAM and storage or "no sale" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I do an OS upgrade, I generally get a new disk, about 50% bigger than the current one, slap it in and restore from TimeMachine. The old one goes in the long term offsite backup box (in the parents' attic) and the previous one goes to some beaglebone/raspberrypi, toy.

    3. Re:Field-upgradable RAM and storage or "no sale" by pubwvj · · Score: 2

      I used to feel this way too but have concluded that I prefer the more integrated approach. I simply buy a computer with the maximum storage, RAM and other capabilities now and then use it to get my work done. In the past it made sense but now the maximum configuration isn't really all that much more expensive and I would prefer to have the more efficient, sleeker and rugged design that the loss of expandability gives. Added storage is external over very fast busses. Internal storage is enormous now a days. I'm speaking as both a user and a computer designer who's been in the field since the 1970's which gives quite a bit of perspective. Apple's choice does make sense.

    4. Re: Field-upgradable RAM and storage or "no sale" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As one who worked at Apple stores for 9yrs 2% of users upgraded ram after purchase. Macs are worth 75% retail value after 2 years- not 20% after 6 months like PC'c- so they sell and buy new. Check eBay for sale prices for 2014 iMacs. Go ahead I dare ya. Then tell me Macs are expensive. THEY HOLD VALUE, and so apple couldnt care less about your 2% cult

    5. Re: Field-upgradable RAM and storage or "no sale" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do the same with my truck. It costs a little more to buy a full size fuel tanker truck, but I never need to stop for gas. And when the tank is dry, I can just sell it and buy a new one, in a slightly different color for the same price as the old one.

    6. Re: Field-upgradable RAM and storage or "no sale" by davidwr · · Score: 1

      As one who worked at Apple stores for 9yrs 2% of users upgraded ram after purchase.

      2% - that you know of. How many upgraded without ever informing Apple (oh please don't tell me Apple "phones home" and gives this "valuable research information" to Apple without informing the users, please don't tell me that).

      Every Mac I've ever owned got either more RAM, a bigger drive, or both before I retired it, all without any help from Apple. Some of them even served as Linux or other no-MacOS boxes once Apple stopped allowing any supported version of macOS to run on the old hardware.

      Macs are worth 75% retail value after 2 years

      Yes, yes, very much yes. I do buy used. Howerver, I won't be buying any of the recent-vintage used Mac notebooks precisely because they aren't user-upgradeable.

      --
      Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    7. Re: Field-upgradable RAM and storage or "no sale" by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      "I do the same with my truck. It costs a little more to buy a full size fuel tanker truck, but I never need to stop for gas. And when the tank is dry, I can just sell it and buy a new one, in a slightly different color for the same price as the old one."

      Wow. Did you now that RAM memory is rewritable. You can use it, erase it and save something new in the same spot. It's a great innovation! But Anon Cowards may have missed that news.

  19. Re:Imac pro better have easy open back or it's sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you cant open an imac then you need to turn in your man card.
    I have opened my 27" 2014 imac several times, it's trivial once you bother to take time to learn how and get the right tools.

    I'm betting you are one of those that claim "ohh BMW cars are hard to work on" because your lack of education tells you they are.

  20. pci-e x4 3.0 best case shared does not work by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    pci-e x4 3.0 best case shared does not work to well for all uses and system video also shares the same bus. one more thing the external PCIe enclosure cost just about as much as good mid range video card.

  21. Apple hardware stil sucks by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Insightful

    * MacBook Pro -- STILL limited to 16 GB ? Really?
    * It supports a wide color gamut -- what about 9-bit / channel or 10-bit / channel ???
    * Radeon GPU? UGH, I where is the nVidia GPU option to run CUDA code?

    * Sooo, what happened to the Mac Pro ? Thanks for giving us the finger Apple.

    * No new Mac Minis ?

    * iMac Pro -- at $4,999 isn't this just another Mac Pro ?

    * If Apple was serious about games -- the could EASILY blow Microsoft and Sony out of the water. WHERE is the gamepad??? Or the ability to use Android / PS4 gamepads?

    * HomePod -- You guys don't understand bass at all. I have a 12" driver on my sub. Why would I downgrade to a wimpy 4" driver ???

    I love my MacBook Pro -- but Apple really is becoming more clueless.

    1. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      I have a 12" driver on my sub. Why would I downgrade to a wimpy 4" driver ???

      Most people (especially those with spouses) go for practical and small rather than trouser-flapping loud. Why do you think Bose is so popular? Because people didn't want huge high-end super fidelity floor standers, but small "milk carton" speakers that manage to deliver decent (good enough) sound quality. If the Siri part of this speaker actually delivers, it might actually sell. Not holding my breath though, if Homekit thus far is any indication of how well Apple understand integration in the home.

      For the rest, I was seriously hoping for a much needed refresh of the Mini line.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by timholman · · Score: 4, Funny

      * iMac Pro -- at $4,999 isn't this just another Mac Pro ?

      It's worse than that - it's a betrayal of everything that Apple claims to believe in.

      Have you looked at photos of it? It has legacy ports, including an SDXC port, four USB 3 ports, an Ethernet port, and a headphone jack. What where the Apple engineers thinking? The iMac Pro should have nothing except USB-C ports, with lots of optional dongles, just like the MacBook Pro.

      The iMac Pro is doomed from the start. It's like putting propellors on a space shuttle. I can't imagine anyone paying good money to have their pristine new iMac Pro marred by those disgusting outdated openings on the back.

    3. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by nine-times · · Score: 1

      If Apple was serious about games -- the could EASILY blow Microsoft and Sony out of the water. WHERE is the gamepad??? Or the ability to use Android / PS4 gamepads?

      If they were serious about games, they'd also release a desktop machine without discrete graphics and without a built-in monitor. And they'd support remotes on Macs again, and allow you to run an AppleTV-like interface, so you could use the computer as a console. Hell, they could just partner with Steam and use their gamepad and Big Picture mode.

      They're not serious about games.

    4. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      People who need 10-bit / channel can afford to buy a real computer, real software and ensure color works from capture to edit to sale/release.
      They need a real CPU, a real OS, lots of ram, fast storage and a supported display. The software has to work with the 10-bit / channel and so does other hardware.
      The new Apple products are good for consuming really nice looking video work not made on Apple computers.
      Smart people need hardware and software that supports everything their capture, software, color.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by tigersha · · Score: 1

      Why would they be?

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    6. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      *where is the nVidia GPU option to run CUDA code?
        >> They have Metal 2. Maybe get a LINUX box and save money.

      * Where is the Mac Pro?
        >> The iMac Pro IS the Mac Pro.

      * Or the ability to use Android / PS4 gamepads?
        >> emulating other platforms just gives a new platform for the other platforms crap -- it's not going to make money.

      * HomePod - 12" sub
        >> Get the excelsior dominator 5000 with 50" subs to blast your inferior 4" neighbors into jello!
        >> On the other hand, Apple iPhones are the #1 platform for snapping photos today. Maybe because they figured out how to do less with more and were "good enough."

      * I love my MacBook Pro -- but Apple really is becoming more clueless.
      >> Yeah, in some cases I agree. But they have to play in the Alexa department, and they have to play catch-up in the VR department, and they've got a hard time reaching economies in scale with desktops so it makes sense to design a pro architecture and then hobble the cheaper amateur models. I'm mixed about the included monitor for the pro computer (hi quality and hi cost) and their new GPS on a cable trick -- but it's kind of necessary.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    7. Re: Apple hardware stil sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sneer at the new imac pro, but unlike the MS Surface studio pro, the imac has a beautiful touch free screen, half the capacity so less hassle.with sorting files and using an absolutely gorgeous designed in California by apple power cord in an eye catching Apple white color.

    8. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Well first, I'm not saying they should be. I use my Mac for work, and I'd rather have them continue to refine the desktop experience than make a half-assed play for the gaming market.

      However, they took a chunk of time in the conference to talk about 3D performance and VR, which would easily lead someone to think they're interested in gaming. That's not quite how I took it, but I could understand someone making that assumption.

      Also, there is a strategic reason for Apple to go after the gaming market: it's one of the hold-out uses for Windows that keeps people from switching. I have a Windows machine for gaming. If, instead of buying that Windows machine, I could have purchased a Mac with comparable performance for a comparable price, and run all the same games on MacOS, bypassing Windows entirely, I would have done that.

      So that'd be at least one additional Mac purchase they'd have today. I'm sure I'm not the only one, so there probably is a market for for Mac gaming machines. But, of course, there are other considerations. Is the market big enough to warrant investment in developing new products? Would those sales really create new purchases, or would they cannibalize existing sales? I don't know the answers to those questions.

    9. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      where is the nVidia GPU option to run CUDA code?

      They have Metal 2. Maybe get a LINUX box and save money.

      Most CUDA developers *do* have a Linux box(es) for serious computing, but being able to prototype on a MacBook Pro before deploying to a GPU cluster is extremely useful, as is being able to program on the road when you can't access the cluster.

      And Metal 2 is not anywhere close to a replacement for CUDA/CUDNN. At least not until Apple commits to maintaining a Metal 2 driver for one of the open source deep learning frameworks like Caffe.

    10. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) Metal is the Apple specific equivalent to Vulkan - Apple prefers OpenCL over CUDA but the reality is that OpenCL is effectively dead and CUDA won as there is now simply too much CUDA source code in use (hence the reason AMD is desperately attempting various things to translate CUDA into something their GPU's can run).

      2) The Mac Pro isn't coming until sometime next year (at the earliest). Look at the iMac Pro as an easy to churn out stop gap to attempt to appease the Pro market until Apple can get the proper hardware designed and made.

      3) HomePod isn't entirely about good enough, but a lot (ie almost all) don't want to fill up their homes with speakers, etc and instead want the room to look "good".

    11. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by Shadowmist · · Score: 1

      Apple is not only not serious about games, Steve Jobs was downright hostile to them. Apple is today more receptive to gaming.... but only on IOS devices.

    12. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by Shadowmist · · Score: 1

      There is no point in going after a desktop gaming market. That ship sailed long ago when developers realised that the only market woth developing for is Windows for commercial games. Blizzard was the last major company to do cross platform development and even they stopped doing dual development for any new games, only supporting their existing Warcraft, Hearthstone and Diablo markets. Nothing that Apple can do will change that, so what would be the point?

    13. Re:Apple hardware stil sucks by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Meh. People also said there was no point in Apple going after the desktop market because Microsoft had that sewn up. Also, there was no point in going after the smartphone market because companies like Motorola were too entrenched to compete with. There was no point in making tablets, since Microsoft had tried and failed, showing that nobody wanted a tablet. For that matter, when Microsoft made the first XBox, people thought that was silly because Sony and Nintendo were too unstoppable.

  22. Mobile CPUs? by Luthair · · Score: 1

    It doesn't really say... are the imacs still using mobile CPUs?

    1. Re:Mobile CPUs? by larkost · · Score: 1

      My guess is that the 21" iMacs, and the bottom-end 27" iMac are using Mobile versions, since they are limited to 32GiB RAM. The upper 2 models of iMac 27" are definitely using a Desktop part since they support 64GiB of RAM. That logic goes even more for the iMac Pro since it can address 128GiB of RAM.

      On the GPU front it is always a little hard to say, since Apple usually negotiates custom versions of the chips used that typically sit somewhere between the retail Desktop and Mobile chips (so more powerful than typical Mobile, without being as hot as the full Desktop cards). I expect that to be true for the new cards on the released iMacs, but would believe that the iMac Pro GPU will be closer to a stock Desktop part.

  23. Still no 32GB option... by andrewa · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I already committed to a Dell XPS 32GB for my next laptop though, I didn't have any faith on Apple being "courageous" enough to compromise on making a model that's slightly thicker than a previous model.

    --
    :(){ :|:& };:
    1. Re:Still no 32GB option... by Shadowmist · · Score: 1

      I already committed to a Dell XPS 32GB for my next laptop though, I didn't have any faith on Apple being "courageous" enough to compromise on making a model that's slightly thicker than a previous model.

      Eat your words then... they're doing so with the Iphone 8.

  24. At least they didn't wreck the Air by WalrusSlayer · · Score: 1

    Looks like the Air lineup is unchanged. Which on one hand, means they get more underpowered (by comparison) every year, but also means that they don't get the "who needs more than a single USB-C port?" wrecking ball.

    So at the moment I consider that a win. For me I think it hits a perfect balance of size, weight, compute power, and battery life. At least for the computing load of non-power-users. And is now the only Apple notebook not stricken by the USB-C-is-all-you-need syndrome.

    1. Re:At least they didn't wreck the Air by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      They went from 1.6GHz to 1.8GHz, option to upgrade to 256 or 512GB SSD even on the low-end model, but still stuck at 8GB.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:At least they didn't wreck the Air by WalrusSlayer · · Score: 1

      They went from 1.6GHz to 1.8GHz, option to upgrade to 256 or 512GB SSD even on the low-end model, but still stuck at 8GB.

      Thanks for that, it wasn't obvious on their web site that anything had changed at all. It would have been nice to go beyond 8G, but relatively small price to pay to preserve a usable array of ports.

  25. On the positive side ... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

    I can't believe Apple "innovated" a black screen inside the car. Joking aside ...

    * The wider color gamut on the MacBook Pro is nice -- just wish they said if they supported a native 9-bit / channel or 10-bit / channel or are they stuck with 24-bit color ?

    * Nice to see Apple finally taking 120 Hz serious on the iPad Pro.

    * 20 ms latency on the Pencil is a good step in the right direction. Technically you want sub 8 ms time (1000 / 120 = 8.33 ms)

    * The iMac Pro looks nice ... but are expensive as hell. $4,999

    1. Re:On the positive side ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Considering OS X and Photoshop CC for Mac have both supported 10 bit color since 2015, it's a pretty good bet that all their new systems, with DCI-P3 wide gamut displays are all taking advantage of those bits...

      Their Tech Specs page for the pro ( https://www.apple.com/ca/imac-pro/specs/ ) mentions "1 Billion Colors", in 5K and 4K UHD, and only "Millions of colors" in 4K, which I'd take as confirmation.

  26. Are they joking? by ilsaloving · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Apart from the iMac Pro (which I'm afraid to see the price of...), their 'improvements' are no less a joke now than they were last year.

    They barely count as incremental, and nothing that is truly important. Their $4000 machine still only has 16GB RAM, a 4GB graphics card, and still no way of connecting to *anything* externally without buying an armload of attachments.

    I miss the days when their "Pro" laptops actually were. Apple is probably the singularly best example of what happens when a company replaced an Engineer CEO with an MBA. Cook needs to be fired and replaced with someone that can provide actual leadership instead of just coming up with new ways to milk the dongle dollar.

    1. Re:Are they joking? by erapert · · Score: 2

      Steve Jobs was not an engineer.

    2. Re:Are they joking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      milk the dongle dollar.

      Oh, is that what they're calling it these days?

    3. Re:Are they joking? by erapert · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, Tim Cook does have an industrial engineering degree.

    4. Re:Are they joking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just as AMD has put Intel into a panic because they actually delivered with Ryzen/ThreadRipper/Epyc, Microsoft has managed to put Apple into a panic by making Windows hardware look attractive to professionals.

      In both cases, it takes time to turn the ship around. Intel's announcements are an attempt to buy time given the i9 chips are still at least 6 months away, and possibly (likely?) longer.

      Similarly, Apple is just playing make time at the moment. The iMac Pro, being a souped up iMac, is quicker to get to market than the all new Mac Pro and an attempt to convince pro's that Apple still wants them (hence the reason its still 6 months away but announced now). Any signifciant changes to the Macbooks also will take time, of which there hasn't been anyware near enough since MS shocked everyone with the Surface Studio.

      Add in being late to the AI/ML party (Amazon Echo/Google Home), very late (due to chronically underpowered GPU hardware) to the VR/AR market, and you start to see Tim Cook being the same as Balmer was at MS.

      Essentially the external design side has been allowed to run crazy at Apple with their thinness obsession and in the meantime the market and competitors have shown there is more to computers than thin.

      As for firing Cook, the question is who else do you bring in without making things worse.

    5. Re:Are they joking? by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      It's a bit late the party at this point so I dunno how many people will see the parent, but I'm commenting to give visibility to an interesting post.

  27. sigh, then my next MacBook will be a Dell XPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My 2013 MacBook Air is getting a bit stale. I had high hopes that the 2017 refresh would allow 16GB and have an updated CPU. Turns out the only change is + 0.2Ghz...

    I love OSX, but when a similarly equiped Dell XPS13 is over 600 euros cheaper than the MBPro with 16GB and 512GB SSD (and has an i7 to boot) then Apple is making it rather easy to jump ship.

    1. Re:sigh, then my next MacBook will be a Dell XPS by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Except the XPS13 is a dual-core i3 while the MacBook Air is a dual-core i5.

      I do agree that this MacBook Air "update" is weak at best. The RAM should have had a 16GB option as you say and the display could have been updated to IPS. A TN LCD in 2017 at those prices is completely insane.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  28. Re:Imac pro better have easy open back or it's sad by spoot · · Score: 1

    The older ones are easy. The new ones the glass is glued on with adhesive strips. Not impossible to open, but a solid pain in the ass. iFixit gives them a Repairability: 5 / 10. Also, it looks like the iMac pro, going by the shots on the Apple web site, have upgradable ram slots, but alas, no door to access them. So, to upgrade the ram, gotta unglue the darn thing. Can't tell about the ssd from the picts, maybe under the fan assembly(?) or soldered to the logic board.

  29. use modern processors by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

    Wow! They decided to use modern processors! No wonder the geniuses at Apple make the big bucks!

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  30. Really? Oh... by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    If I was any more underwhelmed by this the paramedics would be rushing me to the hospital for a heart attack.

  31. Re:Imac pro better have easy open back or it's sad by larkost · · Score: 1

    The other 27 iMac's that were announced today explicitly have user-serviceable RAM (not drives though), while the 21" versions are explicitly soldered on. The specs for iMac Pro do not specify one way or the other. There are only a few images of the back of the units on the website, and if you watch the keynote there was a video that showed the RAM banks while describing the air flow. The only image we have of that area does not have an obvious panel, but that is less than conclusive.

    Long story short: we don't know anything about that yet. Could be user-serviceable, could be fixed. It could be that they will go back to how it used to be, and you could take the whole back off pretty easily and then the RAM and drives are accessible. We just don't know.

  32. 2015's MF839LL by antdude · · Score: 1

    It looks like Apple stopped selling them (new). :(

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  33. only 2 TB buses in the imac pro? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    only 2 TB buses in the imac pro? over 4 ports they should have the pci-e for 4 buses. This does bold well for the next mac pro.

  34. $1,400 for 64GB upgrade WTF??? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    $1,400 for 64GB upgrade WTF???

  35. Meanwhile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My one year old budget powerhouse PC packs 32 GB memory, 512 GB SSD, Geforce GTX 1080 and an intel 6900K @ 3.7 GHz

  36. Re:Imac pro better have easy open back or it's sad by spoot · · Score: 1

    Just an FYI: Apple says iMac Pro RAM won’t be user replaceable, Space Gray accessories not sold separately

  37. Re:Imac pro better have easy open back or it's sai by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope, some models have the RAM soldered to the motherboard (thankfully the 27" this year returns to having user accesible RAM, but the 21.5" isn't upgradeable.