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Why Does Microsoft Still Offer a 32-bit OS? (backblaze.com)
Brian Wilson, a founder of cloud storage service BackBlaze, writes in a blog post: Moving over to a 64-bit OS allows your laptop to run BOTH the old compatible 32-bit processes and also the new 64-bit processes. In other words, there is zero downside (and there are gigantic upsides). Because there is zero downside, the first time it could, Apple shipped with 64-bit OS support. Apple did not give customers the option of "turning off all 64-bit programs." Apple first shipped 64-bit support in OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard in 2009. This was so successful that Apple shipped all future Operating Systems configured to support both 64-bit and 32-bit processes. All of them. But let's contrast the Apple approach with that of Microsoft. Microsoft offers a 64-bit OS in Windows 10 that runs all 64-bit and all 32-bit programs. This is a valid choice of an Operating System. The problem is Microsoft ALSO gives customers the option to install 32-bit Windows 10 which will not run 64-bit programs. That's crazy. Another advantage of the 64-bit version of Windows is security. There are a variety of security features such as ASLR (Address Space Layout Randomization) that work best in 64-bits. The 32-bit version is inherently less secure. By choosing 32-bit Windows 10 a customer is literally choosing a lower performance, LOWER SECURITY, Operating System that is artificially hobbled to not run all software. My problem is this: Backblaze, like any good technology vendor, wants to be easy to use and friendly. In this case, that means we need to quietly, invisibly, continue to support BOTH the 32-bit and the 64-bit versions of every Microsoft OS they release. And we'll probably need to do this for at least 5 years AFTER Microsoft officially retires the 32-bit only version of their operating system.
You can't collect surveillance data on people with older computers if you aren't offering them an OS that will run on it that can collect surveillance data for you, that's why.
I don't know why they offer a 32 bit still, but it sure is annoying
my gaming machine threw a rod or something, I had to re-install, but bla bla bla the only license I could find in my big bin o' parts was for 32 bit windows 7, but they offered free win10 upgrade so what the hell I tried.
Anyway long story short, even though I had 64 bit selected it ended up installing 32 bit windows 10.
I ended up using my stupid 32 bit windows 10 to download 64 bit windows 10 installation media after extracting my CD-key from the registry I had to wipe the computer for like the 5th time in a row, and re-install 64 bit from scratch via a thumb drive.
Some computers still run on 32 bit processors. In many businesses you have the need to update software for security reasons but are unable to update hardware.
For some people, 4096MB *are* enough. And why buy a new computer when your old is working fast enough for you.
and Apple doesn't.
Now you can run old custom 32 bit programs in a newer 64 bit OS and mostly it will run fine, but why replace "100% guaranteed to run" with "most likely will run"? Especially with old funky device drivers that were fine-tuned for the old setup?
64-bit versions of Windows do not support 16-bit components, 16-bit processes, or 16-bit applications
That's why. There is still a TON of legacy apps out there in use that won't function properly. I don't have that problem. But it exists. And that's only one of the reasons. I'm sure there are other reasons.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
It's not rocket science - many people still use PCs that have 32-bit processors.
This sig left unintentionally blank.
Some software packages (stupidly) check to see if a WIndows OS is 32 bit or 64 bit before running or installing and if it's not 32 bit, they don't start. How do I know this? I know a person who runs their business on an outdated software package with exactly that limitation, which is why upgrading their office network was a hell of a challenge to ensure we got 32 bit versions of Win 7 Pro when we bought the equipment.
Why don't they get a new version? Because the company that makes the software is out of business
Why don't they use something else? Because they LIKE this package and for what it does, it works well.
Also, don't device drivers for 64-bit Windows need to be signed? I.e. they need to be current device drivers in active development, which won't be the case for a lot of legacy hardware.
Breakfast served all day!
That's the general answer. There is also a very specific answer in the case of Windows: 64-bit editions of Windows cannot run Win16 apps. There are still (FML) significant chunks of Win16 code out there, which everyone can agree is a pain in the ass but it's still a reality for some verticals. There may be some other compatibility considerations, too - right now I'm too drunk to check, but DOS emulation is different between the 32 and 64 bit editions.
You can still install the drivers. You just need to set the permission level using this:
/set nointegritychecks ON
bcdedit
The 64 bit footprint is bigger.
I have a cheap-o Asus tablet hybrid thing. It's only about 3 years old. Still works. The CPU is 64-bit in theory, but the EFI bios only allows 32-bit Windows. It's tied to the license key or something.
Installing software on the flash of this device is _tight_ and with 4GB or RAM there isn't a lot of real advantage to 64-bit Windows anyway.
I think this article might have been written by someone who only gets use cases for modern high-performance machines.
damn I have been running 7 thermal chambers over RS232 for like 6 years now on windows 7 64 pro, and I never knew they were not working...
I don't think the argument is written very clearly, but I think the central argument is more like, "64bit Windows can still run 32bit apps. 64bit Windows is objectively better. I don't like having to support 32bit Windows. Why is Microsoft still offering 32bit Windows?" I think the main reason he brings up Apple is to say, "Apple has done this for years. Why can't Microsoft?"
And he has a point. The main reason that I can think of is that Microsoft must still be committed to supporting old hardware. Microsoft has a tendency to provide extremely long legacy support, not breaking backward compatibility. Also, they wanted to push everyone to move to Windows 10, and they probably wanted to provide old 32bit computers an upgrade path.
I do think they Microsoft should start de-emphasizing 32bit versions of their OS and their apps. If you download Windows 10 from their website, 64bit and 32bit are presented as roughly equally valid, even though people generally shouldn't be installing 32bit Windows anymore. If you go to download the Office suite in O365, I think it still gives you the 32bit version by default, and you have to jump through a small hoop to get the 64bit version. IMO, 64bit should be the default going forward, and 32bit presented as a de-emphasized legacy option for people who need it.
I can't tell if most Slashdotters are teenagers, or live in a single office room and never venture outside. Because there are TONS OF BUSINESSES that still use legacy software A DECADE out of "support." The people that wrote the software have left the company. There's no documentation. And the software _still_ _works_.
Whenever you replace software, you have to understand it (a huge task), you have to re-implement it (a huge task), you have to transition it from old-to-new without corrupting data or interrupting business. (sometimes a huge task.)
I'm currently updating a .NET 1.1 / VS2003 application. It's a pain in the ass and even throwing C++ EXCEPTIONS even though its a C# program. A google of the error message returns... no results. Yay!
Meanwhile, in the last three years I've met not one, but TWO, different companies that still run their internet-connected AS/400 (Google it.) in a live, critical environment. And last year I found the reason a lab was running so slow... it funneled everything (including 150MBit wireless) through a 10 MBit ethernet... hub. (Not a switch.)
Legacy exists everywhere. It's a real problem. Hell, look at the B-52's that were designed in 1955, and we're STILL FLYING THEM as part of our essential air force. (I'm guessing because they cost a 100x less to fly than the billion dollar B-2's.) When was the last time you went to Radioshack (ha!) and bought a bunch of VACUUM TUBES to fix your multi-million dollar airplane. Well, the military has that exact problem.
I'm in the private sector and I still see the software equivalent every month.
If you think that's bad, look carefully at the installer for MS Office 2016/365. If you do nothing, it still installs the 32-bit version by default.
You can see Microsoft's own 32 vs 64 guide for Office here:
https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Choose-between-the-64-bit-or-32-bit-version-of-Office-2dee7807-8f95-4d0c-b5fe-6c6f49b8d261
The 2013 version of that guide still recommends 32-bit for most people, and I believe until recently the 2016 version did the same.
First we bitch at Apple because they stopped supporting 32-bit machines after 10.8. Now we bitch at Microsoft because they *still* support 32-bit machines.
Please make up your mind, people.
Some software just won't run in a 64 bit environment, regardless of WoW64 and thunking. Most of the software that is the most rigidly tied to a 32 bit environment is the kind of software that is also the most mission critical. The kind of software that operates radar ARPAs, hospital respirators, navigation systems, and MRIs. Apple, as pretty as it is, just doesn't have the presence in the industrial side of things that Microsoft does - in fact they don't have any industrial presence to speak of. As a desktop only computer, they are more free to adopt new OS features that render old software incompatible. Many beloved programs from the past have been rendered inoperable by a MacOS upgrade. While inconvenient for the user, it is hardly catastrophic.
Now, no one is going to perform an OS upgrade on an existing MRI of course. But there are many reasons why an MRI vendor would want to bring out a new model with a new (perhaps more secure) version of Windows, but where the software is still tied to 32 bit. Industrial software is far less agile. You just can't recompile for 64 bit, it has to go through very strict verification and rigid change control. That kind of process takes years, and costs far more than most software porting. What about that 80 year old who has had a forgotten metal bit in his shoulder for 40 years who is put into an MRI to have that bit forcibly ripped out of his body by because the magnetic flux feedback detection didn't work properly when the 32-bit driver for it was mis-ported to 64 bit?
So while Microsoft is hardly a company I regularly defend, in this case you just can't compare a company that only puts out pretty ergonomic desktop machines and keeps draconian control of hardware to the extent that you really can't use the OS anywhere else, and a company that produces OSes for everyone's hardware that ranges from embedded microcontrollers, to warship navigation systems, to tablets.
64 bit ms office doesn't work as well as 32 bit. This has been known since at least 2 office versions ago. Also Office plugins don't work because they plugin directly to Office memory space, not something like sockets or other common protocol.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
When Intel CPUs are operating in long mode (x64 code execution), they cannot be switched to 16 bit real-mode compatibility mode.
To use 16 bit real-mode compatibility mode, the CPU must be running in legacy mode (x64 support disabled).
The windows 16 bit API would occasionally require real mode coding, even though the bulk of operations were done in 16 bit protected mode. As a result, this cannot be executed natively on a x64 CPU which has been booted into long mode, and would require code emulation which was not considered a sensible design feature, especially as virtualization technology meant that on the rare occasion when 16 bit compatibility was required, you could simply run a 32 bit guest OS in legacy mode on a virtualized CPU.
If they've got to Google the AS/400, then maybe Slashdot isn't really the best place for them to visit/comment?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Why does Microsoft still sell 32 bit versions of Windows? Because there is a demand for it. Some customers have a need for a 32 bit version of the OS, for either legacy hardware or software (or both). I don't work at Microsoft, but I would guess that the demand for a 32 bit version of the software is greater than the cost of producing and maintaining it. Therefore, they sell it.
As the market for a 32 bit version of their OS dwindles, it will probably be retired when they don't make money by selling it. Until then, I would guess that they will keep producing it, since they want to, you know, make money by selling a product that people want to buy.
The other comments here have already answered why MS still offers a 32-bit OS - not a hard question.
What strikes me as weird is why many Linux distros today aren't offering a 32-bit OS. The next Debian release won't have a 32-bit version, for example. They should know that a good chunk of their users are computer hobbyists who run it on older, repurposed hardware. And not as old as you might think, Intel was shipping 32-bit Atoms through 2010 at least. I have one I'm using to this day as a low-power fileserver/seedbox/irc-bouncer.
Really odd to see them drop x86 support when they support other weird architectures I haven't seen since the 90s, or ever. Does anyone know why?
These arent "apps" he is talking about.
The "solution" of course is to buy new industrial equipment to replace the old that you are controlling with that 16-bit computer. So it''ll only cost a few hundred grand at best to move off of that 16-bit CNC setup. Not a big deal at all, right? Then they can run windows 10 too... thats an awesome operating system for industrial equipment. Honest.
"His name was James Damore."
I work in the process control industry, and many reporting modules for SCADA Historian software are only available for 32-bit Office (Wonderware is the first one that springs to mind).
So unfortunately, 32-bit Office will probably stick around for a while longer (at least until software vendors rewrite their modules to be compatible with 64-bit Office).
Heck I have an AS/400 in my server room right now.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Windows has granular permissions. Not a primative 1970's all-or-nothing security model.
One: memory. 64 bit applications use more memory.
Two: storage. 32 bit compatibility means 32 bit libs alongside 64 bit
Finally, apart from compatibility, there isn't much upside for 64 bit if you have less than 4GB of ram.
I don't know if Windows does anything with it, and in practice I don't think it's used, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... is an example of using 32 bit x86 but requiring x86_64 because of memory.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
*not* MRI, but I have direct experience supporting hugely EOL'd equipment.
There are vendors out there who don't advertise in the normal channels, but their specialty is finding and sourcing that "Component A" you need, generally for an eye watering markup over MSRP, even when accounting for inflation.
I needed some PECs (Pin Electronic Drivers) that simply didn't exist anymore and the Altera FPGAs that drove them in the system too. I didn't have the source for the FPGAs anymore, all I had was a known good dump from one of the units, but that's good enough.
Said company sourced the PECs (in the needed 16 pin PDIP or CERDIP package) at a price of $15 each, the FPGAs about $375 each.
I think the FPGAs were only 200% above retail, but those PECs used to sell for about $0.65 each.
Still, they had the remainder of the world's known supply (about 50K units) and could source them. They *also* were able to continue sourcing ATI All in wonder pros that only worked on Windows 98/98SE... and yes we paid through the nose for those too, since they were the only video card that was supported with the "live video overlay" on the machines.
Those systems lived in an isolated lab, where their network connection was to a dedicated bastion host that ran a current OS and provided server software passthrough etc.
Damn that was a fun lab to be the steward of (not).
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
Microsoft gives OEMs free, as in beer, or low-cost 32-bit Windows OS licenses for equipment that falls within certain hardware limits (screen size, RAM,etc.), that is why you can find $89 Win10 Tablets, for example.
Ken
Just another note on EOLed equipment: Intel ONLY stopped producing the i386 in 2007 (nearly 20 years of production for the CPU) because it was that widely used.