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Google Hires Key Apple Chip Architect To Build Custom Chips For Pixel Phones (variety.com)

A recent hire at Google indicates big changes are coming for future versions of the Google's Pixel phone. Manu Gulati, an Apple micro-architect who worked on the company's chip development for nearly eight years, has just joined Google. From a report: Gulati started working at Apple in 2009, and was instrumental to the company's efforts to build custom chips for the iPad, the iPhone and Apple TV. Apple began using its own chips in 2010, starting with the introduction of the iPad in 2010, which was powered by the company's A4 chip. To this day, the company uses custom-designed microchips for each of their devices, which make it possible to optimize processors both for performance and energy consumption. In the industry, these integrated chips for mobile devices are also known as SoCs, or "systems on a chip." In contrast, Google relied on a chip designed and manufactured by Qualcomm when it introduced its first Pixel phones last fall. The same chip is being used by a number of other Android phone manufacturers, including HTC, LG, Lenovo and Asus -- all of which goes to say that these phones all offer very similar performance specs. Qualcomm has become the de facto-manufacturer for higher-end Android phone chips, making it harder for the companies to differentiate their devices from one another.

52 comments

  1. Nearly 8 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If working for the same company for 7 years and a bit sounds like an extraordinary achievement, then I weep for the future.

    1. Re: Nearly 8 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've been at 5 places in 10 years of working life. How does one get a decent raise staying in one place if going into management isn't interesting to you? I ask this honestly, not in jest. I would love to work at one place for 40 yrs like my dad but I don't wanna be stuck making 45k at age 60.

    2. Re:Nearly 8 years by ranton · · Score: 1

      If working for the same company for 7 years and a bit sounds like an extraordinary achievement, then I weep for the future.

      Going back to a day when someone works at the same company for 40 years sounds like going back to a day when someone rarely left their home town their whole life. It certainly doesn't sound like a good thing. Cross pollination of ideas and labor market fluidity are good things.

      If leaving your company in under 7 years for better opportunities ever sounds like a volatile career, then I weep for the future.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    3. Re: Nearly 8 years by Moheeheeko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This, the only way to get a raise that isn't a cost of living adjustment these days is to hop from company to company.

    4. Re:Nearly 8 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hmm, let's see

      - No long term benefits anywhere
      - No advancement above ~3% cost of living increase
      - Increasing politics / stratification

      WHY do PEOPLE leave COMPANIES???

      Science just doesn't know

    5. Re: Nearly 8 years by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      This, the only way to get a raise that isn't a cost of living adjustment these days is to hop from company to company.

      That is not a bad thing. Cities with lots of job hopping tend to be more productive and have lower inequality. Ideas spread faster, and people can avoid getting stuck in jobs that don't fit their skills.

      Churn is good.

    6. Re:Nearly 8 years by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Going back to a day when someone works at the same company for 40 years ...

      You can't go back to something that never existed. A "golden age" of lifetime employment is a myth. Average job tenure today is higher than it was in at almost anytime in the past. Sure, there were some people that worked in a factory their whole life in the 1960s, but that was not common, and many more people were day laborers moving from job to job.

    7. Re: Nearly 8 years by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      There are some companies that do have an advancement track for non-managers. It's not as common as it once was but it is not necessarily rare. I suspect it may make a comeback given the rapid job changing of younger workers. You especially don't want job hopping by senior engineers, it's far too disruptive.

      I think for younger workers there is this myth of being rich quickly by just finding the right startup and this encourages changing jobs often.

    8. Re:Nearly 8 years by ranton · · Score: 1

      Sure, there were some people that worked in a factory their whole life in the 1960s, but that was not common, and many more people were day laborers moving from job to job.

      This is why just looking at average job tenure doesn't tell the whole story, and is in fact very misleading. Two massive changes on the opposite end of the spectrum caused the average to stay mostly unchanged. On one end there are less people working at one company for 20+ years with a defined benefit retirement plan. On the other end there are less people working as day laborers or other jack of all trade workers who move from job to job perhaps many times in the same year.

      None of that changes the fact there has been a large shift in the workplace, even if the averages don't show it.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    9. Re: Nearly 8 years by Streetlight · · Score: 2

      Are your retirement accounts (401ks) vested and transportable with each move? If not, then you'll reach 60 years old with little of no retirement income. It used to be that you needed to work a minimum time (7 years ?) for retirement accounts to be vested; not sure what the situation is now. If the major source of the contribution was from an employer, as in my case, holding short term jobs could be a disaster if you can't keep the whole value of your retirement accounts.

      --
      In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
  2. We should be welcoming commodity smartphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They won't be able to charge premium prices forever.

    1. Re: We should be welcoming commodity smartphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except these companies may start "extending" on the ARM instruction set making it custom and proprietary as they attempt to monopolize the market.

    2. Re:We should be welcoming commodity smartphones by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      They won't be able to charge premium prices forever.

      Yeah, let's all race to the bottom. Afterall, it has worked out so well for the quality of PeeSees...

    3. Re: We should be welcoming commodity smartphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought ARM was proprietary.

      In fact, I thought that's all ARM was, all IP, no physical product. They only license the design, they don't manufacture anything themselves.

      Isn't that right ?

    4. Re: We should be welcoming commodity smartphones by tgetzoya · · Score: 2

      Yes. You buy an IP license from ARM. This gives you the right to modify and sell ARM-based-architecture products to customers. You can even modify the architecture enough that it is no longer compatible with other ARM based products if you choose. What Google will do here is optimize the software to their very specific hardware making Pixel with Google SoC faster, and more memory efficient, than HTC/Motorola/Samsung with SnapDragon/Exynos.

    5. Re: We should be welcoming commodity smartphones by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Every chip maker with IP has SoCs, that's nothing special. Usually no one worries about this since only the operating system needs to know about the special features whereas the bland applications remain relatively portable. Even if they go to an extreme to add new instructions (so very rarely needed or desired) these aren't going to be things used by the application layer.

    6. Re: We should be welcoming commodity smartphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if they go to an extreme to add new instructions (so very rarely needed or desired) these aren't going to be things used by the application layer.

      That's not true, that's down to the compiler. You might need to recompile your program. That said you can expect it to support all the old instructions so you can target that instead. That's why armv6, armv7, armv8 have backwards compatibility. The compilers would handle it in the same way as things like the x86 SSE extensions.

    7. Re: We should be welcoming commodity smartphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It has. We're you supposed to be sarcastic?

      I meant good for the customers, though. And I mean over the long term, i.e. the last 30 years. Even Apple had to eventually give it up and adopt defacto standard commodity components.

    8. Re: We should be welcoming commodity smartphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True apple cheerleaders dont care about mere customers. It all about making apple look good to justify the money they waste on apple overprices gadgets.

    9. Re: We should be welcoming commodity smartphones by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can even modify the architecture enough that it is no longer compatible with other ARM based products if you choose

      No you can't. ARM will not sell a license that permits you to change the ISA for any price: they saw what happened with fragmentation with the MIPS market and have no desire to commit suicide in the same way. You can add custom interrupt controllers, UARTs and DMA engines, which makes porting an OS a bit harder but is invisible to userspace (and to the compiler). You can also add custom coprocessors, which every SoC vendor does (for example, a lot have face detection as a dedicated logic block: you DMA an image from the camera to the block and then read back a list of rectangles from an I/O register). Apple's chips also have a smaller ARM core that has private memory that is not readable by the main core for storing encryption keys, so that a compromised device can be forced to encrypt or decrypt things for the attacker, but can't leak the keys.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  3. Trump's a bitch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His supporters that aren't millionaires are dumb mother fuckers.

  4. Hire some support engineers by nickmalthus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I doubt the mainstream market consumers would want to buy a Pixel phone when it only will be supported up to two years after it's initial launch. Google is taking planned obsolescence to a new level! Buy a premium pixel phone on a two year payment plan and as soon as it is paid off it is obsolete and one will need to start looking to purchase a new one with little hope of reselling their current phone for any meaningful value.

    Google is a fickled company and all of their services and products have short abrupt lifespans.

    --
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be-T J
    1. Re:Hire some support engineers by Albanach · · Score: 2

      I doubt the mainstream market consumers would want to buy a Pixel phone when it only will be supported up to two years after it's initial launch. [deccanchronicle.com] Google is taking planned obsolescence to a new level! Buy a premium pixel phone on a two year payment plan and as soon as it is paid off it is obsolete and one will need to start looking to purchase a new one with little hope of reselling their current phone for any meaningful value.

      That's a bit misleading when the page you linked to shows the phone is supported for three years. Admittedly, the OS is only guaranteed to be upgraded for two years, but there will be monthly security updates for three.

      As an Android user and Nexus owner for many years, I do agree that the length of support is far behind that offered by Apple in the past (though the recent 64 bit decision reduces their support to four years).

    2. Re:Hire some support engineers by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Apple makes sure to push that last update that nerfs your device at the point in time that they feel it's time for you to buy another iGadget.

    3. Re:Hire some support engineers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      No. Apple adds features to iOS that require better hardware and stops supporting your device when it updates iOS to a new version. You make it sound like they brick your device. I have an first-gen iPad that still works, as proof you are wrong.

      And even dropping support only happens once every four-ish years.

    4. Re:Hire some support engineers by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      Google's short support is also amusing to me since they love to snipe at Microsoft about security issues, yet the security situation on Android is garbage.

    5. Re:Hire some support engineers by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Two years is an eternity when you consider most Android phones never get updates (other than the flagship models).

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    6. Re: Hire some support engineers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How is this modded +3 insightful? To me it looks like flamebait.

      Nowhere in his post does he tell the truth. It's all lies and deceptions. I have an iPhone 4s that just stopped receiving updates. That's a 6 year old fucking phone.

      So fuck off with that FUD.

    7. Re: Hire some support engineers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL the apple haters are out in full force. First the post above yours gets modded +3 insightful when he does nothing but lie, then your post modded -1? For what reason? Everything you said is 100% accurate. Fuck this site man.

    8. Re:Hire some support engineers by swillden · · Score: 1

      I doubt the mainstream market consumers would want to buy a Pixel phone when it only will be supported up to two years after it's initial launch.

      Three years. However, I'd like to see you point me to the support commitment made by any other OEM. Any at all. As far as I can tell, Google is the only one that even bothers to tell you what you can expect. Not even Apple makes any commitments, though in practice they do generally give you four or five years, rather than three. But if they were to decide not to, you have no recourse.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    9. Re:Hire some support engineers by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      This is true for first-party updates, but I'm still getting regular updates on my Moto G (released November 2013) from LineageOS (thanks to the Slashdot AC who pointed me to the process for installing it).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  5. ROI ? by dasgoober · · Score: 1

    Has the performance of Apple's chips outpaced Qualcomm's so much that Google will see any major improvement from making their own custom?

    1. Re:ROI ? by fred6666 · · Score: 1

      Even if it is the case, can Google really beat Qualcom and what makes you think Qualcom couldn't make faster chips if manufacturers were willing to pay for it?

    2. Re:ROI ? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Everyone makes customer chips with ARMs, and with other processors. These are not PCs where you buy off the shelf parts and combine 20 different chips into what is normally a single chip on an embedded system. Off the shelf SOCs are too generic much of the time and they can be overpriced if you have to go up the tier to get the components you need. So companies instead present their wishlist recipes and get that made into an ASIC, and they'll do this even if the speed doesn't get faster because they'll reduce overall costs.

      Custom chips aren't that difficult to get, you don't need to be a gigantic company for this.

    3. Re:ROI ? by known_coward_69 · · Score: 2

      It's been like this for years. Qualcomm chips have 8 cores and run at 2GHz or some ridiculous speeds but for real performance Apple chips beat them any day. Apple has lots of custom silicon and their OS uses it

    4. Re:ROI ? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Has the performance of Apple's chips outpaced Qualcomm's so much that Google will see any major improvement from making their own custom?

      According to Geekbench benchmarks, yes - at least in single core because Apple doesn't make an 8-core chip. A single A10 used in the iPhone 7 Plus scores around 3300, while the latest Qualcomm scores... 1900. An Intel i7-6600 scores 4000. That puts Apple's chip somewhere around a i5 from 3-4 generations ago

      Multicore Qualcomm wins - 8 cores beats 2 cores any day.

    5. Re:ROI ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the A10X in the latest iPad Pros scoring around 3880, multicore 9230.

    6. Re:ROI ? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I develop fairly heavyweight processing stuff that ultimately has to run on phones. As far as I can tell, Geekbench's numbers are utter tosh. A desktop i7 vastly outpaces all the mobile chips for more or less all the stuff I write. My experience echoes that of colleagues and friends who do similar things.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    7. Re: ROI ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I looked and haven't seen what benchmark score they are citing. Obviously there is a benchmark for every advocate.

    8. Re: ROI ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Geekbench is written for mobile, and has delays to let mobile chips cool off. For actual computing this is trash bin. The claims that Apple's phone chip is on par with a desktop Intel from a couple years ago are total rubbish.

    9. Re:ROI ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I developed some low level stuff for Android and in my opinion single core performance is much more important than multi core performance. If you have a few fast cores vs many slower cores, user experience will be always better on fast cores. This is because peak performance matters very much for user experience. For benchmarks however the story is somewhat different since there only numbers matter. I would say that today Apple has the best ARM core out of all the available ARM vendors.

    10. Re:ROI ? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      In computation-per-second figures or in computation-per-joule?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  6. Google doesn't have the numbers to justify custom by fred6666 · · Score: 2

    Google doesn't have the numbers to justify custom chips. Samsung does. Apple does. Huawei seem to have it. But Google I highly doubt it.

  7. Re:Google doesn't have the numbers to justify cust by Albanach · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Perhaps they want server chips? They already use google designed security chips and ASICs.

  8. Re:Google doesn't have the numbers to justify cust by dasgoober · · Score: 1

    If you're referring to the numbers after the dollar-sign, I think they do...

  9. Re:Non-Compete Agreements? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean, like this??

    https://yro.slashdot.org/story/17/06/12/1559241/amazon-sues-former-aws-vp-over-non-compete-deal

  10. Not Even Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Never existed". Never existed?? Your definitions of the words "never" and "myth" are not only not my definitions, your definitions cannot be found in any dictionary anywhere. Notwithstanding your lame qualification that "...there were some people...".

    The ignorance of your comment is surpassed only by the corrosive effect on employment expectations your comment has.

    Many, many, many companies had cultures of lifetime employment. And even when specific employees didn't stay a lifetime, they moved at their option, not that of their employer. IBM, all of the Detroit Big Three, Hewlett-Packard, General Electric, Pan American, AT&T/Bell, Kaiser Steel, Sears Roebuck, Singer Sewing Machines, Macy's, the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, ... I could spend weeks thinking up examples and never get to the end.

    Furthermore, those who were "day laborers moving from job to job" either yearned to get in with a better employer or had given up and simply accepted they were a permanent underclass.

    More insidious is your subtext however. "There was no golden age, get over it, expectations are for losers, you're going to get screwed so bend over and learn to enjoy it!"

    I'm not against progress and I'm not against a gig economy either. However we need workplace and employee protections, and that's an area where we are doing poorly.

  11. Re: Google doesn't have the numbers to justify cus by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 2

    Perhaps Google wants to free hardware developed by this guy to the Android hardware base in the same way they free Android. I.e. have him developing flagship hardware that becomes a reference design for all the Android hardware shops eventually. It isn't that far off to recognize a big point of the Nexus product line has always been to act as a reference design. Pixel can be used that way as well. Google benefits from all vendors who roll out Android-based products.

  12. Wrong Hire by speedplane · · Score: 1

    Google should have hired Apple's chief marketing or design officer, not any chief [technical role] officer. Apple products aren't wildly bought because of superior performance, but because of amazing branding and design. In many respects, Android is more capable than Apple. Another wasted effort by Google.

    --
    Fast Federal Court and I.T.C. updates
  13. Re:Google doesn't have the numbers to justify cust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A royalty free architecture would also be desirable, and make a better base for a future Android platform as well. There is real momentum behind RISC-V, and Google is also invested.

  14. urrg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's not apples , the A4 is an ARM chip licensed by apple , the last CPU they actually partly owned was the powerPC chip buit in colaboration with others