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Wind, Solar Surpassed 10 Percent of US Electricity In March, Says EIA (thehill.com)

According to the Energy Department's Energy Information Administration, wind and solar produced 10 percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. for the first time in March. The Hill reports: The Energy Information Administration's (EIA) monthly power report for March found that wind produced 8 percent of the electricity produced in the U.S. that month, with solar producing 2 percent. The two sources combined to have their best month ever in terms of percentage of overall electricity production, EIA said. The agency expects the two sources topped 10 percent again in April but forecasts that their generation will fall below that mark during the summer months. Due to the way geographic wind patterns affect the generation of electricity, the two sources typically combine for their best months in the spring and fall. Annually, wind and solar made up 7 percent of electric generation in 2016, EIA said.

21 of 179 comments (clear)

  1. Trump won't let this stand by Socguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Get ready for federal 'tweaking' to prevent further renewable growth. Time to tax renewables so that coal can be competitive again. Now that renewables are seriously starting to cut into market share, special interests are going to pull out all the stops to make sure nothing changes.

    1. Re:Trump won't let this stand by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If by "tweaking", you mean removing subsidies, then that is a good thing. Subsidies are supposed to be a temporary incentive to innovate, not a permanent crutch.

      Great. Let's take away subsidies from coal and oil, then.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Trump won't let this stand by kenh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's take away subsidies from coal and oil, then

      Let's examine the subsidies of each:

      Solar: Free money to pay for basic Research & Development, Secured loans to build factories, Free Training for solar panel installers, Tax breaks for creating "green" solar panel installer jobs, Free money to pay for half of each solar panel installation, and, artificially high rates utilities must pay solar panel owners, regardless of the utility's ability to actually use the electricity when it is generated.

      Oil: Ability to deduct research and development costs from income.

      The great thing about oil is the ungodly amount of tax dollars the end-user pays per gallon, as we reduce dependence on Oil, tax revenues will drop, and have to be replaced by collecting more money elsewhere, for example, by taxing electric cars to help pay for infrastructure (roads, bridges, etc.), erasing even the illusion that electric cars are "cheaper". (Oil companies earn less than 10 cents a gallon, the federal government collects almost 20 cents a gallon, and states collect up to 40 cents for each gallon of gasoline sold.)

      --
      Ken
    3. Re:Trump won't let this stand by blindseer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most M.E. oil goes to Europe and other countries.

      That's true but oil is traded on the global market. If an area that produces a lot of oil is all of the sudden not producing oil because of war then oil gets expensive even for those that don't buy oil from that area. That oil has to be replaced by those that continue to produce oil, and increasing production costs money.

      I'm not saying that this justifies US military involvement in the Middle East. Quite the opposite in fact. I say let them fight it out amongst themselves. I also say we need to make it clear that we will trade with people that can act kindly to their neighbors, treat their citizens and visitors with respect, and generally act with civility. This trade can include weapons if they like. Keeping the peace does mean being prepared to go to war after all.

      The way to allow the USA to not concern itself with what goes on there is to produce enough energy on our own that whatever happens in the Middle East will have minimal effect on prices we pay here. We can do this by drilling for more oil, digging for more coal, putting up more windmills, and building more nuclear power plants.

      I've had people tell me that building nuclear power plants will do nothing for the price of oil because oil is primarily for vehicle fuel while nuclear power is primarily used for electricity. I've seen the opposite though. Energy is energy. People will use whatever is cheapest.

      I grew up on a farm and I've seen gasoline driven augers and electric driven augers used to move corn. There's advantages to both but in the end it comes down to cost on which the farmer will choose to use. Go to Sears, or wherever you might see lawn mowers and such, and you will see electric mowers next to the gasoline powered ones. This happens on the small scale with suburban yards to mow. On the medium scale with the family farm. Why would this not happen on an industrial scale?

      Oil is oil and energy is energy. An economy needs energy. To decouple the USA from the Middle East militarily means that the Middle East needs to be decoupled from the world economically.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    4. Re:Trump won't let this stand by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oil: Ability to deduct research and development costs from income.

      You forgot ability to hand-wave away externalities like carbon release.

      And then there's coal, ability to hand-wave away externalities like release of fissile nuclear elements into the air..

      Meanwhile, solar panels made in/for the first world are required to be recycled (or at least you're paying for it), and to not leach if landfilled in spite of recycling requirements. And solar panels have paid back the energy cost of their production well within their lifetime since the 1970s. And wind power predates human production of electricity.

      Since solar is required to account for its mess, it's only fair to count fossil fuels' being permitted to ignore their respective messes as a subsidy. Since we have no technology which can reasonably clean up what coal in particular has done to our environment, the subsidy for that particular fuel effectively amounts to an infinite amount of money.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Trump won't let this stand by blind+biker · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And then there's coal, ability to hand-wave away externalities like release of fissile nuclear elements into the air..

      People are (rightfully, to some extent) caught up with the radioactive shit that is released by the coal energy industry, but they forget the much worse stuff, mercury, lead, cadmium and other neurotoxic stuff. Especially mercury.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
  2. A Red is Wind Blowing by cosmicl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Turns out a lot of this wind power is coming from "red" states, like Kansas for example. From the nytimes https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0... "Two years ago, Kansas repealed a law requiring that 20 percent of the state’s electric power come from renewable sources by 2020, seemingly a step backward on energy in a deeply conservative state. Yet by the time the law was scrapped, it had become largely irrelevant. Kansas blew past that 20 percent target in 2014, and last year generated more than 30 percent of its power from wind. The state may be the first in the country to hit 50 percent wind generation in a year or two, unless Iowa gets there first. Some of the fastest progress on clean energy is occurring in states led by Republican governors and legislators, and states carried by Donald J. Trump in the presidential election."

    1. Re:A Red is Wind Blowing by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In mid Georgia we've got cotton being replaced by solar panels. My last trip to Columbus I drove through Taylor county, a lot of red clay that used to grow cotton. Those areas are covered by mile upon mile of solar panels as far as the eye can see. It's a brilliant thing considering that when they produce the best is the same time when A/C units are working hardest. The green revolution is here and it's paying it's own way. It continues just fine without subsidies because it makes money. Money talks.

    2. Re:A Red is Wind Blowing by zieroh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let me know when Kansas can supply 100% of it's electrical needs through renewables when the electricity is actually needed - producing a surplus of electricity during the day does nothing to power lights at night.

      Why is that relevant? The power grid is a large collection of power generation units that have different characteristics and are useful at different times for different needs based on the load at that moment. Having more options is a good thing.

      You seem to be laboring under the illusion that one power source has to do it all. There is in fact no such rule.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    3. Re:A Red is Wind Blowing by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, battery storage technology is on a rapid downward trend. I was reading about India, which has severe coal-related pollution problems, and just recently the price of solar has dropped there has dropped to be less than coal. Within five years the cost of solar plus battery will be less on a per kwh basis than coal. It doesn't mean they'll be able to conjure the change overnight, but it'll start things going that way.

      You didn't think Elon Musk just wanted to be this century's Henry Ford did you? He wants to be this century's John D. Rockefeller (Standard Oil) too. That's why pulling out of Paris pissed him off.

      Anyhow, until battery backup of renewables is economically feasible, which will happen soon, there's plenty of fossil fuel generated kwhs that can be replaced with renewables. This is not only good for the enviroment, it'll mean lower local energy prices. That in turn will mean jobs and industry returning to some of those pockets of America that never saw any recovery from the Great Recession.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  3. Re:What happens when you eliminate subsidies? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Solar and wind sound great until you eliminate the subsidies. Take away those subsidies and they become far more expensive. Once that happens, nobody will want to pay the extra costs and renewables will decline again. Like everything with the climate change agenda, it's a house of cards built on deception and lies.

    Fresh meat! Give me a list of the energy sources that do not get subsidized.

    Oil - yes, Gas yes, Nuclear? Bitch, please.

    Come back and make your argument when the only energy source left that is getting any form of subsidy is alternative.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  4. Re:What happens when you eliminate subsidies? by kenh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Gasohol/Ethanol is among the dumber ideas for reducing our dependence on crude oil - the more ethanol you add to gasoline, the lower the MPG the car gets compared to 100% gasoline. Then there is the energy burned growing and harvesting the corn, processing the corn, transporting the additive, and then blending in the additive to create Ethanol.

    The ONLY reason ethanol is a thing is because politicians forced it on the American consumer - it serves no other purpose than to further the goals of the politicians that keep it in place.

    --
    Ken
  5. Re:But how much did this electricity cost? by Jeremi · · Score: 3, Informative

    How often do people ask why solar is so unpopular?

    Almost never since about 2005, because solar has actually become extremely popular.

    After being subsidized heavily in the USA for decades this is all we have to show for it. Perhaps we need to stop and think if this is in fact a good use of our tax money.

    The price per watt of solar power drops every year and shows no sign of leveling out any time soon. If you don't like the price this year, wait until next year. If you don't like solar power period, at any price, that's fine too -- the world will continue to adopt solar power at an ever-increasing pace, with or without your support.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  6. Re:What happens when you eliminate subsidies? by Humbubba · · Score: 3, Informative
    Spending a few tax payer bucks on wind and solar is money well spent. Let's get this straight: All Viable Energy Is Subsided. It keeps the prices at a sweet spot for producers and consumers alike. In fact, fossil fuels, like oil, have been hugely subsidized. In 2015, global fossil fuel subsidies were over $5 trillion dollars. Oil, natural gas, and coal received 70% of the total energy subsides from 1950-2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

    Oil is the reason we war in the Middle East, sacrificing lives and tax payer money; it's another form of subsidy. War a racket, as the great Major General Smedley Butler pointed out. We have reached peak oil, and future dependency on oil projects a bleak future, with more war, scarce resources and dire prices. Raytheon, Academi/Xe/Black Water, Lockheed Martin and others would love such a Dystopia. Not me.

    Subsidizing alternate energies is a good idea. Wind, solar, water and yes, even other energy sources like fusion should be subsidized, encouraged and exploited.

  7. Re:What happens when you eliminate subsidies? by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's true. Round here there was an error once and they added too much alcohol. It made the cars go backwards.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  8. Re:What happens when you eliminate subsidies? by TRRosen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wind and solar have already become cheaper than coal and gas without subsidies. Renewables have already won.

  9. Re:What happens when you eliminate subsidies? by gtall · · Score: 3, Informative

    More to the point, it aids the farm lobby, which, in a rarely photographed mating ritual, causes three-way co-recursive "backscratching" between farmers, lobbyists, and congress people. The bastard sproggs of this unholy activity include higher food prices, higher energy prices, bad land management, never dis-elected congress people, and extra congressional aids to keep track on ledgers of who is doing what to whom and how good it feels.

  10. Re:What happens when you eliminate subsidies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem is largely one of engine design. Most cars sold in the US are fairly low compression. Under those conditions, the burning ethanol just adds heat, no real power.

    In a high compression engine, especially with a turbo is where ethanol works well. Australia sells a fuel mix that's 85% ethanol which is really popular with performance car owners as you get a lot more power from the same engine.

  11. Re:What happens when you eliminate subsidies? by guises · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Where does this subsidies rumor keep coming from? Yes the subsidies may have been the deciding factor at first, but they did their job and drove down costs as the new technologies gained wider adoption. It's been years now since then. Here, the Energy Information Administration publishes an annual forecast on the costs of different sources of energy. You can see that the cost ($/MWh) before subsidies is lower for onshore wind than anything save geothermal and basically tied with natural gas (but only natural gas plants which do not capture carbon emissions). And the cost for photovoltaic solar before subsidies is just above that, more expensive than hydroelectric but still cheaper than nuclear, biomass, etc.

    There's some variation there depending on how you measure, you can see there are multiple charts, but in none of those are solar or wind dependent on subsidies to be more cost effective than most of their competition.

  12. Corn vs sugar cane by fred6666 · · Score: 4, Informative

    It depends. Corn ethanol is dumb. Sugar cane ethanol make sense, but that wouldn't help US farmers.

  13. Re:But how much did this electricity cost? by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Informative

    I suspect that solar power advocates don't like to talk about the cost of the solar watt-hour because if they did that then the charts would not look so great.

    Utility-scale solar power is now selling for less than three cents per kWh. So that would be less than $.00003 per watt-hour.

    This compares favorably to coal and other forms of traditional power generation.

    My suspicion is that when you think about solar power, you are thinking only about residential rooftop solar power, which is indeed more expensive to due lack of economies of scale. That would be an error, since utility-scale solar power is where the advances in cost-effectiveness are occurring.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.