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Why So Many Top Hackers Come From Russia (krebsonsecurity.com)
Long-time Slashdot reader tsu doh nimh writes:
Brian Krebs has an interesting piece this week on one reason that so many talented hackers (malicious and benign) seem to come from Russia and the former Soviet States: It's the education, stupid. Krebs's report doesn't look at the socioeconomic reasons, but instead compares how the U.S. and Russia educate students from K-12 in subjects which lend themselves to a mastery in coding and computers -- most notably computer science. The story shows that the Russians have for the past 30 years been teaching kids about computer science and then testing them on it starting in elementary school and through high school. The piece also looks at how kids in the U.S. vs. Russia are tested on what they are supposed to have learned.
Fossbytes also reports that Russia claimed the top spot in this year's Computer Programming Olympics -- their fourth win in six years -- adding that "the top 9 positions out of 14 were occupied by Russian or Chinese schools." The only two U.S. schools in the top 20 were the University of Central Florida (#13) and MIT (#20).
Fossbytes also reports that Russia claimed the top spot in this year's Computer Programming Olympics -- their fourth win in six years -- adding that "the top 9 positions out of 14 were occupied by Russian or Chinese schools." The only two U.S. schools in the top 20 were the University of Central Florida (#13) and MIT (#20).
If only we had decent hackers in the US. Then maybe they could release the Russian hooker piss-tapes to Wikileaks. I love watersports.
I've been watching a lot of Russian language media lately, because I have been trying to restore my language skills. Hackers in Russian movies are much more realistic than in American ones.
One gets asked whether he can get in a secure system? He does not boast, he answers "I will certainly try."
He does not mash the keyboard while he is getting a blowjob, he deploys an arsenal from 'Flashka' or from a alphabetical soup URL.
He examining an air-gapped system, looking for a way to get at the hardware, and mumbling about which patches seems not to have been applies.
He gets asked to get some video records? He asks "Do I have an hour and a half"?
Etc... And that is from police shows, where the staff hackers are not necessarily named characters, and definitely not the focus of the series.
This tells me that that the population at large has some idea about IT... you would not make a movie in the US where the driver will shift three times while driving backwards, would you? I mean... Uh, you get the point.
No good deed goes unpunished...
Maybe the Russians aren't wasting time trying to figure out what bathroom a student should be allowed to use or letting some precious snowflake change the language because he doesn't like to be called "he"?
Maybe the Russians tell the violent kids they're fucking violent and kick their asses out of school, and don't care how it might correlate with racial statistics?
Maybe the Russians have an education system that isn't run by a union intent on playing politics with every damn thing?
In the US, there is an extreme risk-averse culture. Not risk-averse as in "start a company and it might fail" but as in "don't even think about trying to beat the system, someone might sue you for it". So the very thing that causes many of the most succesfull companies to be founded in the US is actively suppressed when it comes to hacking skills.
This aricle is about the education system in Russia, not Capitalism vs (failed) Communism. Also, don't you realize that you Amerikanos have Google due to Russia/Soviet Union?
Has been going on for a little more than 30 years. How many "person on the street" interviews have you seen where young adults, heck, even some older adults Can't find their own state on a map, can't tell you who the president is, can't tell you which side won the civil war and on and on. Is it any wonder the government (both R&D's) have been able to strip away rights, bloat the government, encroach on your every waking minute?
My wife grew up in the Soviet school system. She told me all about math training there. People from the former Soviet Union are sought out everywhere as math tutors. American schools just flop around when it comes to math and send students up a grade even if they don't have the skills.
I worked with a Russian-born testing theorist: she and they were really really good and worked insanely hard at anything that was amenable to an academic approach.
--dave (hey, Safia!) c-b
davecb@spamcop.net
The ones with the most newspaper clippings? Or the ones who never get exposed?
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Education has value. The schools teach. People want to learn.
Exams are passed on merit to get into a really great university.
So the math skills are created.
Also consider a long history of maths and science. Computer access and later faster network access.
Other nations tried to do the same over the years. What did Russia get right and so many other nations totally fail at?
The UK had its BBC Micro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... for education and a lot of very poor people all around the UK got so see and use a computer.
Given the funding and early access to computers the UK should have been a very advanced computer nation?
If it was only about hardware the early attempts at computer education would have allowed the UK to advance.
The USA educated generations in science after the 1950's with more funding. That provided a good selection of very good US teachers for the next generations.
The USA filled some of its schools with new computer labs, books, networks, educational software, robot kits and teachers who could teach. A lot of equipment and books got offered to different schools all over the USA.
Some parts of the USA got vast amounts of new funding for very poor students, per student. Did any of it help or change results? Not as much as expected per generation per student when tested given all the new spending.
If it was only about computer access, the best teachers and funding the USA on average would be very advanced given the amount of funding per student in some US states and cities..
What was the difference?
Passing exams, staying with real merit advancement. In Russia getting good grades and knowing things is seen as a good thing.
A culture of math, science, art, languages, music, sport, faith and education is encouraged and supported.
A pride in culture, art, engineering, maths, Russia is passed to each generation who want to learn and study.
For people in the USA trying to get a wide picture of history try Gymnasium (school) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Not much on Russia but it shows a different way of approaching education that has shaped different nations.
On Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The key is the exams and the need to pass on merit. The USA and UK selected very different educational systems over the last decades and per student funding.
The results of such very different failed methods show decades later over entire nations.
Too much social promotion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... in some nations and not enough low cost passing tests only on merit.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Cool story. The answer is still no, Dave. Stop calling me.
Are you talking about Sergey Brin, half of the duo who started Google, or how Russian scientists were involved in the mathematics behind eigenvalues, which is the underlying fundament for Google's pagerank algorithms?
In much of the West, crime doesn't pay, or at least pay well. Your average street thug probably makes less than minimum wage. Sure, there are a few that make a lot of money, but it's like trying to make a money as a rock band. Only the 0.1% make a middle-class income, and only the 0.001% make the money you see in movies. Plus, you're likely to wind up dead or in jail.
Consequently, for the most part, only the badly educated or stupid become criminals. There's the odd smart criminal, but having a legit job (if that's available) is simply superior in every way.
And then you have the former Soviet Union, with a ton of really smart, very well-educated, very talented engineers, with virtually no decent job prospects at all, but still fairly good virtual contact with the West.
And suddenly, given a lack of options, you have smart criminals.
And that is a recipe for total disaster.
As a matter of survival of the Western world, we need to open immigration from Russia so that these smart, talented engineers can find decent jobs that benefit us before they find ill-paying jobs that cost us terribly.
(Many of my most capable co-workers have been Russians who were able to leave, and man, we their talent working for us, rather than against us, for both our sakes.)
You can thank the absolute bullshit like common core for screwing things up as well. The ye olde by rote system we learned oddly ~30 years ago worked just fine, then they decided to start fucking around with it. And...scores dropped, then they screwed around more, and more. Welcome to the present. The US isn't the only case either, this is what's happening in Canada as well. Though we're only ~15 years behind the US in following this.
It actually get's a bit worse up here because they've also pushed the entire curriculum to be "female friendly" and those changes over the last 12 years have dropped male scores between 1.40pts and 3.80pts(ratings are on a 10pts scale the provincial average is 6.1/10 - some districts have seen male students as low as 2.20pts while female in the same school are 7.18pts) depending on the school district. You can read about the absolute shitshow going on here if you want. And it is a shitshow, one so bad that a province once known for having some of the top students in north america for math have lost it in a decade.
Om, nomnomnom...
To teach K-12 in the US, you need a degree in 'Education' which is for the most part a cultural indoctrination.
It is true that Russia places a much greater emphasis on teaching math, physics, and CS than the West. However, it is only possible because of Russian culture puts more value on knowledge of those subjects. Their knowledge means both more social prestige and better prospect of finding a well-paid job.
BTW, many Russians tend to preserve this attitude to math even when they emigrate to the US. As result, their children do better in math on average than American kids. For example, Sergey Brin has never attended any education institution in the Soviet Union, but he was successful in math and CS. Similar, many Asian kids do well in math, because of their parents.
Anyway, Russia has a large pool of young well-educated people, but Russia does not develop as much software as it could given human resources that it has. As result many young people cannot find a legal well-paid job, and some of them get attracted to the dark economy. Usually Russian authorities will not go after them as long as they choose their targets abroad.
Are you saying that the US system doesn't produce "evil people that commit crimes and make the world worse?" Because I'm pretty sure the rest of the world disagrees.
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CYKA BLYAT MUDAK IDI NA HUI isn't a thing? I could swear CS:GO was full of crying Russians.
As a former-soviet-state citizen, I think it's because of "deficit". A very well known word for soviet people. You couldn't get anything. Food, clothes, household items. Everything was in deficit. And it came in batches, so you needed to go on hunting trips around town to find some new item in a shop. So naturally, computers were a deficit when I grew up (20-30 years ago). You didn't go to a shop to buy new one. You got an old one from an institution and made do. You got bits and pieces and hacked something together. Software: obviously piracy. Who pays for software!? With piracy comes lots of little hacks and cracks, you get to know and learn the systems. You don't have a support line which caters everything on a silver platter. I don't know. It just feels like this hacking and cracking mentality is coming from that.
Russian education system - great at making hackers, not so great at making people who resent living in a kleptocratic autocracy.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
I am a product of post-soviet education of past 20-30 years, from a reasonably large city, and I can tell you that my generation (from which a lot of those hackers seem to come) was not "taught" any computer science, or tested on it, not on highschool, and certainly not in elementary school. Whatever my friends and I have learned was from playing with things on our own. The educational system, however, did provide us with very solid math foundation, geared towards multi-step problem solving, logic, and at least some critical thinking. In my opinion, the abundance of russian hackers is due two a combination of lack of consequences and lack of other as-lucrative economic opportunities. In US, one could easily end up in a world of legal trouble for experimenting with hacking. In post-soviet space, the worst that can happen is one would have to share profits with some thugs (from the government or otherwise).