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'Why I Decided To Disable AMP On My Site' (alexkras.com)

Web developer Alex Kras on Monday listed a number of reasons why he dislikes Google's AMP project, and why he pulled support for it on his website. From his post: Back in the day we used to have WAP pages -- specific web pages that were presented only to mobile devices. Opting into AMP, for publishers, is kind of like going back to those days. Instead of using responsive design (making sure that one version of the site works well on all devices) publishers are forced to maintain two versions of each page -- their regular version for larger devices and mobile phones that don't use Google and the AMP version. The benefit of AMP is that it imposes tough restrictions on content, making it load fast. The issue with this approach is that AMP becomes a subset of the original content. For example, user comments are often removed. I also find the way images load in AMP to be buggy. AMP tries to load an image only when it becomes visible to the user, rendering a white square instead of the image. In my experience I've seen it fail fairly regularly, leaving the article with an empty white square instead of the image. [...] It's up to publishers to decide if they want to add AMP support on their site. Users, however, don't have an option to turn AMP off. It would be nice if Google provided a user level setting to turn results rendered as AMP off. Unfortunately, even if they were to add this option, it wouldn't help much when Twitter of Facebook would decide to server AMP. Further reading: Kill Google AMP before it KILLS the web - The Register, The Problem With Google AMP, 2 Billion Pages On Web Now Use Google's AMP, Pages Now Load Twice As Fast. John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook.

145 comments

  1. Great, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    Now if only every other web developer in the world followed suit, and also abandoned the numerous other methods of forcing browsers into crappy "mobile site" ghettos, instead of designing their pages properly, the world would be a better place.

  2. Not just AMP... by Ecuador · · Score: 2

    The vast majority of websites become crippled when I browse their mobile version, and I am talking about those "responsive designs" (which the summary seems to indicate they are the "good option"), not just AMP. Even on my 5" phone - i.e. a prime target for "mobile web" content - I usually have to switch to the regular website to retain functionality that I consider essential (but the designers apparently do not). I don't mind having to pan & zoom a bit when everything I need is right there on the page - the only difference is that I use landscape mode.
    And that includes slashdot...

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re:Not just AMP... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      That's what AMP is supposed to fix. "Responsive Design" means "Load the whole god damned thing, all 4 gigabytes, all the massive JavaScript, everything; then apply CSS to show it friendly-like on a Mobile Phone so it doesn't look like shit." AMP provides an alternate location, so your cell phone downloads only half a megabyte of crap, and starts downloading the 15MB of images as you scroll the page. It can also supply cut-back JavaScript and skip loading scripting blocks for high-intensity features that get cut from mobile.

      I've seen cut-down designs provide feature subsets before. Sometimes I have to use the desktop site. Ideally, you frequently wouldn't, and so you'd get to skip all that garbage; it'd be great if you could do that on the desktop, too.

    2. Re:Not just AMP... by houghi · · Score: 1

      It is obvious that this happens. As a Linux user I now have a PC with a BIOS that tries to do everything, that starts a boot loader that tries to do everything, running a display manager that tries to do everything, so I can launch my web browser that tries to do everything, so I can load a website that tries to do everything to load ads that try to do everything. ... and all I wanted to see was a puppy.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Not just AMP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How could you possibly have left out systemd?

    4. Re:Not just AMP... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      If the CSS loads all the desktop-version images, it's badly coded and/or the browser doesn't use the CSS properly.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    5. Re:Not just AMP... by tepples · · Score: 1

      If the CSS loads all the desktop-version images, it's badly coded and/or the browser doesn't use the CSS properly.

      What's the proper way using HTML and CSS to specify a separate image for desktop or mobile? Internet Explorer fails to support the srcset property of the img element at all, and srcset in Edge has severe distortion issues.

    6. Re:Not just AMP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      also emacs

    7. Re:Not just AMP... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      So what you are saying poorly designed web sites are too blame.

    8. Re:Not just AMP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some other commenter mentioned the CSS3 @media rule. Not being a web dev, I can't say if that's the best way to go, but at a glance, it seems like it.

    9. Re:Not just AMP... by tepples · · Score: 1

      I read the W3C spec page for CSS3 media queries. But I couldn't find a media feature for "an input device more precise than a finger-operated touch screen is in use" or "the device has a physical keyboard" or "the connection is metered". Can any web dev point me in the right direction for these features?

    10. Re:Not just AMP... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Images aren't all specified in CSS. There's this <img/> tag ...

    11. Re:Not just AMP... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Kind of. Some sites have a lot of images to load and can either have image tags or can use JavaScript to do fancy things to set the images. Much JS is poorly-coded, so yes, it eats your desktop as well as your mobile device. Likewise, a lot of JS that shouldn't load on mobile ... does, and doesn't end its timers and such, so it keeps running.

      AMP mainly tries to restrict what you can do. It says, "On a mobile device, you can't do certain resource-heavy things anymore," so you're forced to at least fall into a reasonable standard. Whether this is a viable approach or not remains to be seen.

    12. Re: Not just AMP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are going to have to check resolution and dpi as nothing like that exists. As for metered connection you have no way of knowing.

    13. Re: Not just AMP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These days no one really needs to support IE anymore and you can always use a polyfill if you really had the IE users to justify it.

    14. Re:Not just AMP... by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      None of those matter to a sane person. When I browse on my phone, I just zoom in if a link is too hard to tap. The presence of a keyboard should be irrelevant. And if I want to load a page on a metered connection, that's my problem, not the server's or the web designer's.

    15. Re:Not just AMP... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      is systemd written in emacs lisp?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    16. Re:Not just AMP... by tepples · · Score: 1

      The presence of a keyboard should be irrelevant.

      How is a keyboard irrelevant? I find a keyboard relevant for two reasons.

      A site might use the presence of a keyboard as a (weak) proxy for the presence of a mouse. I admit that this is weak because a phone may be used with a Bluetooth keyboard but no Bluetooth mouse or trackpad.

      I find it tedious to enter HTML, such as the <strong>, <em>, <a href="...">, and <code> elements commonly used in Slashdot comments, without a physical keyboard because the required punctuation is scattered across multiple pages of the on-screen keyboard. The presence of a keyboard may affect the default setting for whether to present an HTML editor or a limited functionality comment form that takes only plain text and pasted URLs.

    17. Re:Not just AMP... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      The img tag has this srcset parameter, you see...

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    18. Re:Not just AMP... by ColinPL · · Score: 1

      I couldn't find a media feature for "an input device more precise than a finger-operated touch screen is in use"

      This feature will be available in CSS4: Pointing Device Quality: the pointer feature.

    19. Re:Not just AMP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the CSS loads all the desktop-version images, it's badly coded and/or the browser doesn't use the CSS properly.

      What's the proper way using HTML and CSS to specify a separate image for desktop or mobile? Internet Explorer fails

      staph there dolan

    20. Re:Not just AMP... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It's more likely that the next release of emacs will be written in systemd lisp.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    21. Re:Not just AMP... by p0larity · · Score: 1

      If it's missing features on the mobile version, it's NOT A RESPONSIVE WEBSITE.

      "Responsive websites shall not remove functionality." - The laws of the Internet, written by me. Also probably some smarter people.

      Honestly, you're describing a terrible website. It's not a site that provides a fair or reasonable example of responsive web design as a comparison. Just because someone calls a car an egg, doesn't make it an egg.

    22. Re:Not just AMP... by p0larity · · Score: 1

      If you disagree with me and you're a web developer: congrats, you're bad at your job.

  3. Again by campuscodi · · Score: 2

    No day goes by without someone complaining about AMP. This should tell you all you need to know about this technology.

    1. Re:Again by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      People complain a lot about GUIs and command lines, too. That should tell you all you need to know about everything.

    2. Re:Again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No day goes by without someone complaining about something. Should that tell you all you need to know about it?

    3. Re:Again by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  4. Request Desktop Site Version? by Zurkeyon3733 · · Score: 1

    Don't Most mobile browsers allow this now? I know of a LOT of pages with crappy mobile versions. Youtube being one of them. I just go into my page settings and select "Request Desktop Site" and TADA! All is well...

    1. Re:Request Desktop Site Version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, except for those stupid sites that detect the mobile browser regardless of what UA is reported by this feature and force you to use the mobile version no matter what. Fuck those sites.

    2. Re:Request Desktop Site Version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most sites I go to that have a mobile version have a link someplace on the page to take you to the desktop version. Having a mobile version is a great idea, the problem is that the mobile version often times sucks.

    3. Re:Request Desktop Site Version? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Horizontal scroll....horiztonal scroll...zoom in...zoom out... zoom in...zoom out
      hmm yes this is a very usable website.

    4. Re:Request Desktop Site Version? by Alumoi · · Score: 1

      There's this litle Desktop Mode Add-on (Firefox, of course) which make all the sites behave.

  5. Problem Resides With Website Owner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem isn't developing a streamlined mobile version of a website, the problem is not dedicating adequate resources to it to ensure it performs well and still satisfies the customer's needs.

    If you're big enough to need an alternate mobile website, you're big enough to hire enough people to make it work correctly.

  6. I like desktop even on my phone by future+assassin · · Score: 2

    so what if it doesn't compact to remove 1/2 of the info I want to read. Pinch and zoom bitches ...

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:I like desktop even on my phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are the minority, probably even an edge case. As such, there is little to no reason for websites to cater to you.
      I'm sure that's very difficult to understand for someone with asperger's.

  7. All you need to know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No day goes by without someone complaining about seat belts. This should tell you all you need to know about this technology.

    Not saying that AMP is a good thing, but just because a vocal group of people complain about something doesn't automatically make it a bad thing.

    1. Re: All you need to know! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL biggest strawman I've ever seen I think.

      Being sarcastic does not suit you.
      xD

  8. motherfuckingwebsite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    1. Re:motherfuckingwebsite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find the original more readable. Both rendered and its source.

    2. Re:motherfuckingwebsite by tepples · · Score: 1

      When lines of text are nearly 1920 pixels long, how do you avoid rereading a line or skipping a line?

    3. Re:motherfuckingwebsite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't seem to have a problem with that. Perhaps from many years of reading big fat science textbooks and wrangling huge spreadsheets? Though if I did have that problem and thought it due to lines being too long, I could just resize the browser window and the text will wrap.

    4. Re:motherfuckingwebsite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      reduce font size so that each line ends before the screen's edge.

    5. Re:motherfuckingwebsite by tepples · · Score: 1

      Reducing font size on page as wide as a 1080p display would just cause the automatic word wrapping to cram more text onto each line, making the problem even worse. This is why newspapers have multiple columns per page and why the "Better MF Website" sets a maximum width for the body text column.

  9. John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2, Insightful
    In the linked article re $SUBJ:

    And in the same way they block indexing by search engines, Facebook forbids The Internet Archive from saving copies of posts.

    That's not bad thing though; nothing of value is lost and the storage space could be used for more valuable stuff.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re: John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try using a searching engine to find anything on Facebook.
      Try using reverse image search for images you know are on Facebook.
      It doesn't work, because of FUCKING Mark's FUCKING walled garden.

    2. Re: John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      As I said, and nothing of value was lost...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That's not bad thing though; nothing of value is lost and the storage space could be used for more valuable stuff.

      At no time in human history have so many shared so much. This data will one day be of immense interest to historians.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thats what was thought about time capsules

    5. Re:John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's Facebook's content, not our content. That's exactly what they're proving. In the future, you will only get what Facebook gives you.

    6. Re:John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      thats what was thought about time capsules

      The problem is only leaving them for a hundred years. Only Americans think that's a long time.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      This data will one day be of immense interest to historians.

      Many things are of immense interest to historians; nevertheless, there's never a guarantee that a document for X exists for any random X you might be interested in. Digital dark age may always strike.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by zedaroca · · Score: 1

      The linked article is talking about something that the author thinks is valuable, and if you read it, you might agree (the story about Roger Moore).

      People's history have value, most of us see that and the Internet Archive creators and maintainers certainly see that way too. It's pretty arrogant to say that people's posts are less valuable than some storage space. And contrary to the direction the world is moving too.

      If people where like you the Internet Archive would probably not exist, only Wikipedia. Remember Geocities? It wasn't the pinnacle of insightful speech either, but it was history.

      The Internet Archive is a nonprofit digital library, and home to a giant archive of the public web since 1996. Our web archive is viewable for free via the Wayback Machine.
      GeoCities was an important outlet for personal expression on the Web for almost 15 years, but was discontinued on October 26, 2009.

      Of course I understand that budget constrictions would make it impossible to keep the whole Facebook on the IA, but that's not a subject of importance or value, but of real possibilities. If we could keep the pages that someone thinks is important enough to save to the archive and make public (like the one in the article), that would be a great improvement over the current situation.

    9. Re:John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      I don't like $THING therefore, no one likes $THING. (or if they do, I am better than they are because of it)

    10. Re:John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I have no problem with personal histories - quite the opposite in fact. Of course, they historically did take some effort to record. Not everyone was Samuel Pepys. Not everyone is today. But even outside Facebook, the barrier to entry is vastly lower so I'm not tremendously worried about a lack of materials for historians to study. In fact, you seem to be assuming that Facebook posts are going to be accessible in the 2500s. I'd think that the chances of preservation are about as good for non-Facebook materials, if they aren't in fact even greater.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    11. Re: John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having search engines not being able to find things, is not a loss for you?

    12. Re: John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'd think that the chances of preservation are about as good for non-Facebook materials, if they aren't in fact even greater."
      There you go, you're starting to get it. In a moment you'll realise that they're definitely greater.

    13. Re:John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's hubris in the extreme to think future historians will have access to web content at all, let alone data that only exists on proprietary for-profit platforms. We are living in a future dark age. Your content ephemeral, and the Internet a void.

    14. Re: John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by "starting to get it"? Of course there is more durable and less durable media. Medieval parchment is more durable than cheap 19th century paper. Any paleographer understands that.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    15. Re: John Gruber on open web: Fuck Facebook by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I'd lose more sleep over those unindexed paper books in libraries than about this.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  10. AMP is perfect in every way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A glorious product that has elevated us to the status of Gods. It puts bacon on my table and nurtures my children. I will not hear a disparaging word said against it! Good day to you Sir!

  11. Accommodating fat fingers without excess scrolling by tepples · · Score: 1

    designing their pages properly

    Then what's the "proper" way to accommodate the fat fingers of users of touch screen devices without needing excessive scrolling for users with more precise pointing devices? Adding padding around links improves usability on touch screens but increases the scrolling for mouse or trackpad users. And controlling the padding with a CSS media query breakpoint based on viewport width doesn't help because a touch-operated iPad held in landscape orientation has more pixels than a trackpad-operated netbook.

  12. AMP Breaks Functionality by Scorpinox · · Score: 2

    My biggest gripe with AMP is that it breaks same-page-searching. If you have a specific phrase you're searching for on a very long article, it just doesn't work well because all the search results still seem to be rendered underneath the article, and same-page searching seems to go through each of those first, and sometimes still can't find text after that on the AMP page. When I'm looking something up on mobile, I often just want to find a something quick, not read an entire article.

  13. dumber than a box of rocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    all yall are too stupid to realize if you stop visiting lame websites, that gets site owners attention more than griping about it in forums 0.0042894761% of all intertubes users read. "but zomg that means i'd actually have to sacrifice to make a statement!!!"

  14. fritter kitten fumble grope by epine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't whether AMP is responsible, but I visited a site about a week ago with progressive content and image load as I paged down. This is annoying, but nothing new.

    Since I wanted to CTRL-F to search within the page, I spent 5 s manually pressing PG-DOWN to fully load the page.

    Imagine my horror when I discovered that most of the top of the page—previously loaded already—had now disappeared from my document, and was doing progressive load on the way back up.

    That wasn't just irritating. That was outright /etc/hosts-level hellban territory.

    Please, for the love of God, look upon my 16 DIMM slots ye Mighty frugal HTTP server, and load the whole damn document all at once, SVP.

    1. Re:fritter kitten fumble grope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real problem here is that the server has the *capability* to do this. Browsers are acting in the interests of publishers, rather than their users.

  15. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    designing their pages properly

    Then what's the "proper" way to accommodate the fat fingers of users of touch screen devices without needing excessive scrolling for users with more precise pointing devices? Adding padding around links improves usability on touch screens but increases the scrolling for mouse or trackpad users. And controlling the padding with a CSS media query breakpoint based on viewport width doesn't help because a touch-operated iPad held in landscape orientation has more pixels than a trackpad-operated netbook.

    I would be happy if mobile Firefox had an option to force line wrapping. Having to keep scrolling horizontally to finish reading sentences, then scroll back for the next sentence, repeat ad nauseum, well that gets old. On some sites this happens whether it's a "mobile" page or not.

  16. Why/how I decided to block JOOgle ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-7 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/

    Ads/script & malware rob speed/security/privacy

    Hosts add speed (via hardcodes/adblocks), security (vs. bad sites/malware/poisoned dns), reliability (vs. dns down), & anonymity (vs. dns requestlogs/trackers).

    Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus + less security bugs/complexity & faster vs. addons/routers/remote dns!

    * Via what u NATIVELY have in the IP stack in FASTER kernelmode too!

    Avoids DNSChangers in routers/IP settings & dns redirects (99.999% of ISP DNS != patched vs. it) + lightens DNS load & resolves faster from local system RAM!

    APK

    P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e01211ca36aa02e923f20adee0a3c4f5d5187dc65bdf1c997b3da3c2b0745425/analysis/1433430542/

    1. Re:Why/how I decided to block JOOgle ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up you racist retard.

    2. Re:Why/how I decided to block JOOgle ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's "racis" (lol a cry of losers in a nation of free speech) about hosts? Have Rabbi Brin shut him up crony jude! Can't he do it? Apparently not. A jude's soul is easily controlled. Take away the ad gold! Banished from 11 nations in history too Argentines in the 1940 under Perrone, Spanish inquistion, France (1306), Egypt (despoiled/robbed by jews), Arabs (pre & post 1948), England (1330 Edward longshanks), Romans under titus, Russia pogroms and Germany who got rid of them from their nations nazi german's too? No. So much for your bullshit jude.

    3. Re:Why/how I decided to block JOOgle ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jooz aren't a race stupid. They're a religious cult. Who's the retard here? You are.

  17. AMP is not the problem, you are the problem by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

    The point of AMP is to restrict what you can do so that pages load faster. And as a side effect, Google gets to make the rules.

    But AMP would never have existed if webmasters were a bit more reasonable. We are talking about sites weighting several megabytes for the equivalent of a single blog post, with scripts creatively breaking browsers. With a 2.3MB / 66 object webpage, the author is definitively guilty of this.

    How about, instead of complaining about AMP, take the core of the technology, which is actually quite good, remove the Google bits, and make your site even faster and lighter.

    1. Re:AMP is not the problem, you are the problem by tepples · · Score: 1

      We are talking about sites weighting several megabytes for the equivalent of a single blog post, with scripts creatively breaking browsers. With a 2.3MB / 66 object webpage, the author is definitively guilty of this.

      Is 2.3 MB for a whole month's worth of blog posts, including several photos and/or CGI renderings, likewise too heavy? If so, what change would you recommend for a page like this one?

    2. Re:AMP is not the problem, you are the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article did go into that; he tested AMP vs his site with performance tweaks on a throttled connection: AMP was slower (primarily because AMP is a big ball of javascript).

    3. Re:AMP is not the problem, you are the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point of AMP is to restrict what you can do so that pages load faster.

      Don't be a sap. The point of AMP is to drive up ad impressions overall. If you don't care about Google's bottom line and (especially) if your content doesn't depend on organic search, ignore Google and their bullshit.

    4. Re: AMP is not the problem, you are the problem by oobayly · · Score: 1

      The first time I can across an amp page I wondered what the hell was wrong - I got no comments and searching didn't work - so I tried to disable it, only to find out I want allowed to.

      That's the problem, many apps insist on linking to amp content only even though I want the full fat version. It shows that Google realised this was a problem, seeing as they added a link option to Chrome on Android, rather than forcing us to jump through multiple hoops to view the actual content

    5. Re:AMP is not the problem, you are the problem by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      Is 2.3 MB for a whole month's worth of blog posts, including several photos and/or CGI renderings, likewise too heavy? If so, what change would you recommend for a page like this one?

      I wouldn't change anything. This is 2.3 MB worth of content, not 2.3 MB worth of scripts, fonts, stylesheets, oversized pictures, etc...
      I don't have a problem with large pages, I have a problem with low content/size ratio.

    6. Re:AMP is not the problem, you are the problem by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's the point... for Google. Like any private company, everything Google does serve their bottom line.
      But the reason Google did this and not something else is that there really is a need for faster browsing and AMP is their way of addressing it for profit.
      But if webpages were the same size they were 10 years ago, everything would be crazy fast now and there would be no need for AMP.

      And ads aren't the problem. There were ads and analytics 10 years ago, but while they were just as annoying as they are now, they were small enough not to make dial-up users too mad.

    7. Re:AMP is not the problem, you are the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, that's the point... for Google. Like any private company, everything Google does serve their bottom line.
      But the reason Google did this and not something else is that there really is a need for faster browsing and AMP is their way of addressing it for profit.

      Right, which is why I call bullshit. Google's "solution" is content constraints to make sure they can cram their ads in while achieving fast browsing. In other words, less of what users actually request + more of Google's bullshit. People don't want ads and they certainly don't want less content to make room for more ads.

      No thanks.

  18. AMP SUCKS for visually impaired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when pinching to zoom on articles with small fonts, the layout completely breaks and even becomes totally uncontrollable. It is so bad for me that I switched my default search engine on my phone to Bing to avoid the craziness of AMP. IOS ad blockers work just fine and when i run into a site like the LA Times or Fortune that block it, i just find the same story at another outlet.

  19. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The DEVICE knows if it is using a touchscreen or a mouse. It is therefore up to the device to render properly, and the web designer should simply not get in the way of this. I.e. don't think you can force a particular layout so don't even try.

  20. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

    The answer was in the article. Read it sometime.

  21. Re:I too... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

    And yet that's not what the article is about Troll....

  22. Beefy PC with pay-per-bit upstream by tepples · · Score: 1

    Please, for the love of God, look upon my 16 DIMM slots ye Mighty frugal HTTP server, and load the whole damn document all at once, SVP.

    Even a PC with double digit GB of RAM can be connected to a satellite or cellular upstream connection whose ISP charges $5 to $10 per GB. Though a non-AMP page like this still loads fast because it's so simple, I imagine people aren't going to be happy to pay the ISP to load images that won't be viewed.

    1. Re:Beefy PC with pay-per-bit upstream by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can agree with the goal of limiting download bandwidth to just what the user has viewed.
      However dynamically UNloading that content after it has scrolled past, such that it must be downloaded AGAIN if the user scrolls back up strikes me as counter productive to the goal of minimizing bandwidth consumption.

      There is no justification for not loading all of the html (such that it can be searched) at the start however.

    2. Re:Beefy PC with pay-per-bit upstream by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They get to dynamically load different ads when you scroll back up.

  23. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    @media

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  24. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by tepples · · Score: 1

    It's unclear to which part of the article you are referring. I searched inside the document "I decided to disable AMP on my site" by Alex Kras for the words "touch" and "finger", and neither word was there. I searched for the word "link", and none of the results mentioned adapting link size based on whether the browser uses touch or mouse. Could you quote a sentence from the relevant portion?

  25. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by tepples · · Score: 1

    And controlling the padding with a CSS media query breakpoint based on viewport width doesn't help because a touch-operated iPad held in landscape orientation has more pixels than a trackpad-operated netbook.

    @media

    Could you be more specific as to which CSS media query expression you refer?

  26. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't that what the "reader mode" button is for?

  27. AMP by slashdice · · Score: 0

    You know when a fat guy is in the doctor's office, one hand clutching a philly cheese steak, the other hand holding a half-empty party-size bag of doritos. And, in between swigs of a 2-liter Mt Dew bottle, he asks the Dr if there's a pill to help him lose weight, while his coronary arteries beg for the sweet relief of death.

    Yeah, that's AMP. most news and blog websites are painful to use on my 4 ghz desktop and are liable to kill my phone's browser. Publishers, you don't need a pill, you need to put down that cheese steak, turn off the 30 different trackers, analytics, taboolas, etc.

    The exception is Medium. If you use Medium, kill yourself.

    --
    Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
    1. Re: AMP by CrybabiesArePeople · · Score: 0

      Yes ! Dont need AMP! Remove ads and trackers and it will speed up things !!

    2. Re: AMP by tepples · · Score: 1

      Without advertisements, how should a site's operator pay its writers, its server operators, and its bandwidth bill? Paywalls don't work for sites that rely on traffic from search engines. What's the third way, besides ads and paywalls, to fund a site that is larger in scope than a hobby?

    3. Re: AMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without advertisements, how should a site's operator pay its writers, its server operators, and its bandwidth bill? Paywalls don't work for sites that rely on traffic from search engines. What's the third way, besides ads and paywalls, to fund a site that is larger in scope than a hobby?

      Lemme guess -- your entire livelihood is dependent on pushing content on users that they didn't ask for and don't want to see.

      How to make publishing on the internet cost effective is a completely different argument. The point about AMP and many other Google brainfarts is that while they claim it is about creating a better user experience, the goal is simply to flood users with more ad impressions. If that sounds good to you, go with Google. If your user's experience is not enhanced by ads, and you content does not require organic search to find its audience, you are free to ignore Google and their bullshit.

    4. Re: AMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bankruptcy is my preferred solution

    5. Re: AMP by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      A good question to ask, if you're generating content, is that if the only way to pay for it is by embedding advertising, then the content is worth nothing. Thus, if you do want to broadcast it to the world for some reason, hobby or otherwise, you're going to have to find the money yourself. If the advertising industry disappeared overnight, and all the content that it funded did so too, nothing of value would be lost.

    6. Re: AMP by packrat0x · · Score: 1

      Host ads and scripts on YOUR servers (or rented space). It is the connections outside your domain that cause lag that is beyond your control.

      --
      227-3517
  28. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    Expressions using min-width and max-width specified in pixels are a good starting point, as those are compared to the Viewport size reported by the browser. Where you go from there depends entirely on your design needs

    All iPad models present a 1024x768 viewport in landscape mode, regardless of how many actual pixels there are. If your content is so crammed together that you can't tap a link with a fat finger on a 7" screen, you need to work on your design a bit.

    The shittiest Chromebook I can find presents a 1280x720 viewport. Despite having physically fewer pixels, it presents a larger horizontal viewport dimension than any model of iPad so, yes, you can use media queries just fine. You just have to understand how they work.

    For more information on viewport sizes, see here: http://viewportsizes.com/

    And if you really can't make it work, consider also using min-width and max-width expressions based on physical size in addition to pixels, so you're measuring physical and virtual capabilities of the device. Even Windows can work accurately with those now.

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  29. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The 'proper' way is to just serve the desktop web page and NOT make a mobile compatible or 'responsive' reskin of your site.

    My smartphone has enough resolution and the ability to pan / scan / zoom over all of your content.

    I would ask that you not solely use hover-over elements in your UI, but beyond that don't dumb down your website because that doesn''t help me use it from a mobile device. It just pisses me off.

  30. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The DEVICE knows if it is using a touchscreen or a mouse.

    What if it is a touchscreen device with mouse support, what then?

  31. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by tepples · · Score: 1

    My smartphone has enough resolution and the ability to pan / scan / zoom over all of your content.

    Then what's the proper way to serve the majority of users, who prefer to view documents that are already at a reasonable zoom level when they first load? Search engines behave similarly: Google is known to penalize documents that aren't already at a reasonable zoom level when they first load.

  32. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Device stylus.

    e.g. PalmPilot

    We worked all this shit out decades ago.

  33. Fuck AMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first bad experience I had with it was when I was loading a page strictly to read the comments. I just have my mobile in desktop mode all the time now.

  34. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by tepples · · Score: 1

    All iPad models present a 1024x768 viewport in landscape mode

    So did my first couple PCs (an Acer TravelMate laptop and a Dell Dimension desktop), which had a 1024x768 pixel display and a mouse. My netbook (a Dell Inspiron mini 1012) also has a 1024-pixel-wide viewport because its display is 1024x600 pixels, but it has a trackpad. A full-size PC is likely to have a 960-pixel-wide viewport and a mouse when the user "snaps" a browser window to half of a 1920x1080 pixel screen.

    The shittiest Chromebook I can find presents a 1280x720 viewport.

    According to the site you linked, the Nexus 10 tablet in landscape orientation also presents as having a 1280-pixel-wide viewport.

  35. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by tepples · · Score: 1

    Fine-point styli for touch-operated devices still under warranty, such as the Apple Pencil and Samsung S Pen, aren't widespread among most websites' audiences. And a stylus for capacitive touch screens is nearly as imprecise as the finger it's designed to emulate.

  36. Technical knowledge varies by audience by tepples · · Score: 1

    When I browse on my phone, I just zoom in if a link is too hard to tap.

    You are also aware of the zoom feature. Not all sites' audiences are as technical as that of Slashdot. In addition, the mobile view of Google Search penalizes sites that initially load with text too small or links too close together.

  37. Re: Why I Decided To Divorce ShanghaiBill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hear he's hiding out in Shanghai. Ask the locals xD

  38. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by Rockoon · · Score: 2

    Because its not supposed to be up to the page what the size of links are. Its supposed to be up to the browser. That was the original intent of HTML, of the Web itself.
    br. Disabling AMP doesnt solve the problem that browsers arent reformatting automatically, nor can a web page developer solve that problem. The browser authors need to step up and stop trying to be the next PDF.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  39. If you feel like linking to DF... by sootman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... Gruber has written specifically about AMP. https://daringfireball.net/lin...

    If you are a publisher and your web pages don't load fast, the sane solution is to fix your fucking website so that pages load fast, not to throw your hands up in the air and implement AMP.

    He has written more about it in the past -- links are in that piece.

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    1. Re:If you feel like linking to DF... by doconnor · · Score: 2

      Will Google increase your PageRank by the same amount as implementing AMP?

  40. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    And if you really can't make it work, consider also using min-width and max-width expressions based on physical size in addition to pixels, so you're measuring physical and virtual capabilities of the device. Even Windows can work accurately with those now.

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  41. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    Hell, you know what?

    @media (pointer:coarse)

    Enjoy.

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  42. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by tepples · · Score: 1

    And if you really can't make it work, consider also using min-width and max-width expressions based on physical size in addition to pixels, so you're measuring physical and virtual capabilities of the device. Even Windows can work accurately with those now.

    I'm failing to understand how high DPI implies pointer precision, unless you're recommending targeting specific models of Apple kit. Laptops and Android tablets vary so much in DPI that the high end of tablets, which lack a trackpad, is likely to overlap the low end of laptops, which have a trackpad.

  43. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by tepples · · Score: 1
  44. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by BronsCon · · Score: 1
    And I'll repeat myself, since I'm really not sure why we're still having this argument in the first place:

    If your content is so crammed together that you can't tap a link with a fat finger on a 7" screen, you need to work on your design a bit.

    Phones will have smaller screens and are dead simple to detect with media queries.

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  45. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by tepples · · Score: 1

    What if it is a touchscreen device with mouse support, what then?

    It goes based on whether a mouse happens to be connected. This can cause documents using the @media (pointer:coarse) media query to change styles when a mouse is connected or disconnected.

  46. Re: Accommodating fat fingers without excess scrol by Baloo+Uriza · · Score: 1

    Did you just assume the size of my screen and the size of my pointing device? Stop. All bets are off on both.

    --
    Furries make the internet go.
  47. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    It's ''ad nauseam'', you fucking peasant.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  48. Re: Accommodating fat fingers without excess scrol by tepples · · Score: 1

    Did you just assume the size of my screen and the size of my pointing device?

    Until web browsers support CSS4 media queries, web browsers have to use CSS3 media queries and assume that any device with a viewport narrower than 26em or so has a touch screen, which is a coarse pointer.

  49. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by Merk42 · · Score: 1

    So, if a wireless mouse (or maybe pen?) is connected, but not being used, it'll give the targets too small for a finger?

  50. stupid thing is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had never heard of AMP, but reading the description of what it does makes me wonder how anyone could ever be stupid enough to use it.

    I don't think the problem is so much the evil companies constantly trying to force stupid stuff like this onto foolish people, but rather to get people to stop being such fools.

  51. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The web (for better or worse) is a lot more than just a text-driven Wikipedia article, which sounds more in line with the original intent.

  52. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  53. Why I decided never to implement AMP by allo · · Score: 1

    Mandatory Javascript (mandatory loaded from google cdn) for a restricted subset of HTML?
    W.T.F.

    1) Define a Subset of HTML
    2) Create a Parser
    3) Validate the page. When it's AMP display it with your fast parser, if not open a browser
    4) ???
    5) PROFIT

    Why does it need javascript?! Javascript should be FORBIDDEN on "fast" pages.

    1. Re:Why I decided never to implement AMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AMP is not a subset of HTML. The AMP JS is a component library, which is intended to plug some gaps that cannot be met (for most sites) with HTML alone.

      If you have a site that can work without JavaScript at all -- which is certainly still very possible, with some tradeoffs! -- then go for it. You can still embrace the "HTML subset" nature of AMP without using its component library.

    2. Re:Why I decided never to implement AMP by allo · · Score: 1

      The thing is: AMP should make it the standard.

      A subset of html, a subset of javascript. Possibly some instruction counting (like "total js is no bigger than 4k" but not on filesize (which would just get more minimization) but on instructions and complexity).

      You can open you menu with javascript, if you really don't know how to do it otherwise. But you cannot load a external script, which loads an external script, which loads an tag, which loads an ad ...

  54. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by allo · · Score: 1

    Browsers need to help there. Chrome does a very good job. firefox not that good. But the worst are websites, which disable the zoomin on purpose, because they know better what fontsize is good for me.

  55. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by allo · · Score: 1

    your browser can let you choose.

    Did you know, that firefox allows you to use alternative stylesheets in the "view" menu? when a site provides a stylesheet with rel="alternative", you can choose it there. And old mozilla had button navigation for rel="next", rel="previous" links. Browsers had nice features even before html5 ...

  56. Re:In defense of AMP... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is actually possible to make AMP your only experience, if indeed you are willing to accept AMP's implementation of all of the relevant features and skip things it doesn't support. This feels like a hard pill to swallow at first, but often stripping away that custom stuff is what makes it faster, and it being faster benefits people who aren't coming from Google Search and those who still use desktop browsers as well.

    For those who can't stomach full-site AMP, I suggest instead studying the compromises made by AMP and then applying them selectively to your non-AMP site. We did this at my former employer and ended up with a page that loads just as fast on mobile as the AMP pages do, but with additional features that AMP can't support. Since we used progressive enhancement, we were able to serve very similar pages to both but cut out some trickier stuff in the AMP experience.

    Unfortunately since I don't work at that place anymore I cannot ask permission to link to it as an example, and thus I understand that I don't have a lot of credibility here. However, there's some good stuff to learn in the design tradeoffs of AMP and I think they are well worth studying to see which subset can apply to you.

  57. Re:In defense of AMP... by Khyber · · Score: 1

    "AMP is for ARTICLES, not SITES."

    ARTICLES ARE FOR MAGAZINES, NOT WEB SITES.

    But I guess you failed to understand that since you've probably never picked up a piece of dead wood in your life.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  58. Re:In defense of AMP... by bongey · · Score: 1

    Sorry but AMP sucks even for articles.

  59. Re:In defense of AMP... by SJ · · Score: 1

    Or as Gruber said before... you could just "fix your fucking web site".

    The only people that AMP benefits, is Google. It's a lock-in tool, plain and simple.

  60. Cry All You Like by WankerWeasel · · Score: 1

    Google values page speed very highly and that value is only increasing. They're pushing AMP landing pages and converting ads to AMP too. As a website owner, when Google gives priority to those that have AMP pages over those that don't, it's pretty hard to choose not to offer AMP. Look at the sites that chose not to become mobile-friendly back in 2014. They saw significant drop in rank and traffic. Most won't throw away that traffic just because they don't like everything about AMP. Claim maintaining AMP pages is maintaining 2 versions if you like but for most it's done automatically. Few will have to manually maintain their responsive site and AMP site. WordPress runs a huge percentage of all websites and offers a WordPress-made plugin to automatically generate AMP pages, along with other plugins offering the same, plus native implementation is on the way in future versions. The author claims comments can't be included on his site in the AMP version. AMP most certainly supports comments. His implementation just doesn't. Additionally, the vast majority of website content doesn't contain comments, so it's not a big issue for most, even if it was true that AMP didn't support it.

  61. HEY JUDE (beatles) explain this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jews believe this about others they call goyim/gentiles: Jews = biggest racists of all (for which they "jew guilt" you for no less! They're hypocrites known as thieves all thru history or were Argentines in the 1940 under Perrone, Spanish inquistion, France (1306), Egypt (despoiled/robbed by jews), Arabs (pre & post 1948), England (1330 Edward longshanks), Romans under titus, Russia pogroms and Germany who got rid of them from their nations nazi german's too? No:

    1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."

    2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

    3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

    4. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

    5. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."

    6. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."

    7. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."

    8. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."

    9. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."

    10. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."

    11. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."

    12. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."

    13. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."

    14. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

    15. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."

    16. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."

    17. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."

    18. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."

    19. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."

    20. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."

    21. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156: "When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."

    22. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122: "A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean."

    23. Nedarim 23b: "He who desires that none of his vows made during the year be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may make in the future shall be null'. His vows are then invalid."

    Really nice people guess all nations are nazis (egypt "despoiling" robbing it, Romans under titus, russian pogro

  62. EXPLAIN THIS JUDE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jews believe this about others they call goyim/gentiles: Jews = biggest racists of all (for which they "jew guilt" you for no less! They're hypocrites known as thieves all thru history or were Argentines in the 1940 under Perrone, Spanish inquistion, France (1306), Egypt (despoiled/robbed by jews), Arabs (pre & post 1948), England (1330 Edward longshanks), Romans under titus, Russia pogroms and Germany who got rid of them from their nations nazi german's too? No:

    1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."

    2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."

    3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."

    4. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."

    5. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."

    6. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."

    7. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."

    8. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."

    9. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the Law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the Law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely, if by so doing, Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people."

    10. Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17: "A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them."

    11. Baba Necia 114, 6: "The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."

    12. Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D: "When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves."

    13. Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L: "Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."

    14. Aboda Sarah 37a: "A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

    15. Gad. Shas. 2:2: "A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl."

    16. Tosefta. Aboda Zara B, 5: "If a goy kills a goy or a Jew, he is responsible; but if a Jew kills a goy, he is NOT responsible."

    17. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 388: "It is permitted to kill a Jewish denunciator everywhere. It is permitted to kill him even before he denounces."

    18. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348: "All property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which, consequently, is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples."

    19. Tosefta, Abda Zara VIII, 5: "How to interpret the word 'robbery.' A goy is forbidden to steal, rob, or take women slaves, etc., from a goy or from a Jew. But a Jew is NOT forbidden to do all this to a goy."

    20. Seph. Jp., 92, 1: "God has given the Jews power over the possessions and blood of all nations."

    21. Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156: "When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it."

    22. Schulchan Aruch, Johre Deah, 122: "A Jew is forbidden to drink from a glass of wine which a Gentile has touched, because the touch has made the wine unclean."

    23. Nedarim 23b: "He who desires that none of his vows made during the year be valid, let him stand at the beginning of the year and declare, 'Every vow which I may make in the future shall be null'. His vows are then invalid."

    Really nice people guess all nations are nazis (egypt "despoiling" robbing it, Romans under titus, russian pogro

  63. Useful max-width by default by tepples · · Score: 1

    if I did have that problem and thought it due to lines being too long, I could just resize the browser window and the text will wrap.

    A max-width on the body text column does pretty much the same thing. Putting max-width in the CSS rather than waiting for the user to "resize the browser window" does the right thing by default for the majority of people, who do have this problem.

  64. Re:Accommodating fat fingers without excess scroll by tepples · · Score: 1

    CSS4 media queries anticipate that multiple pointing devices may be connected at once, which is why it defines a concept of "primary pointer" used to evaluate the pointer media property. If the user wants to use the touch screen, he should tell the browser to treat touch as the primary pointer.

  65. Can your AMP go up to 11..? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just wish I knew what "AMP" and "WAP" meant in the context of web development. So many people keep using these obscure three-letter abbreviations (obscure for me, at least, because I'm nerdy in ways besides web development); though I realize that this is news for nerds, so all of you knowing what those things mean is good.

    I just wish that once, just once, someone would use the full unabbreviated term so that I could know what the abbreviations mean. I don't trust UrbanDictionary to have the correct definition for this context, and my Google-fu is weak.

    </WhinyRant>

  66. Practical problems with not using an ad broker by tepples · · Score: 1

    In theory, I'm inclined to agree that hosting the ads on the publisher's server is probably the most efficient for network data volume, CPU time, and user privacy. But in practice, a publisher selling ad space directly to advertisers faces a few additional difficulties compared to the more common route of going through a broker, such as an ad network or an ad exchange.

    • The publisher has to seek out advertisers. Not all website operators whose websites have outgrown a hobby are experienced in ad sales or big enough to retain a full-time specialist in ad sales. A broker wins on scale.
    • The publisher needs to assure advertisers that view and click statistics are authentic, as opposed to fraudulent. A broker has more resources to establish trustworthiness of its analytics.
    • The publisher may have to calculate, collect, and remit sales tax, value added tax, or other applicable destination-sourced tax on services to dozens or hundreds of jurisdictions where advertisers are tax resident. A broker wins on scale.

    I'm interested to read the solutions that you would apply to these problems if you were running an ad-supported website.

    1. Re:Practical problems with not using an ad broker by packrat0x · · Score: 1

      Have you found a broker that will prevent malware in ads?

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    2. Re:Practical problems with not using an ad broker by tepples · · Score: 1

      Have you found a broker that will prevent malware in ads?

      No. But despite the answer to your question being no, a broker still outscores no broker.

      A broker has 3 points: a larger selection of advertisers willing to pay competitive prices for your inventory, a reputation for fighting click fraud, and tax collection and remittance in multiple jurisdictions.

      No broker has 2 points: not a malware vector because no third-party scripts execute on the client, and the viewer's browsing habits are shared with fewer third parties. (I say "fewer" rather than "no" because the viewer's ISP can still infer coarse viewing habits from the ClientHello message's SNI field and data sizes.)