Slashdot Mirror


Facebook's Secret Censorship Rules Protect White Men From Hate Speech But Not Black Children (propublica.org)

Sidney Fussell from Gizmodo summarizes a report from ProPublica, which brings to light dozens of training documents used by Facebook to train moderators on hate speech: As the trove of slides and quizzes reveals, Facebook uses a warped, one-sided reasoning to balance policing hate speech against users' freedom of expression on the platform. This is perhaps best summarized by the above image from one of its training slideshows, wherein Facebook instructs moderators to protect "White Men," but not "Female Drivers" or "Black Children." Facebook only blocks inflammatory remarks if they're used against members of a "protected class." But Facebook itself decides who makes up a protected class, with lots of clear opportunities for moderation to be applied arbitrarily at best and against minoritized people critiquing those in power (particularly white men) at worst -- as Facebook has been routinely accused of. According to the leaked documents, here are the group identifiers Facebook protects: Sex, Religious affiliation, National origin, Gender identity, Race, Ethnicity, Sexual Orientation, Serious disability or disease. And here are those Facebook won't protect: Social class, continental origin, appearance, age, occupation, political ideology, religions, countries. Subsets of groups -- female drivers, Jewish professors, gay liberals -- aren't protected either, as ProPublica explains: White men are considered a group because both traits are protected, while female drivers and black children, like radicalized Muslims, are subsets, because one of their characteristics is not protected.

50 of 355 comments (clear)

  1. Who'd a Thunk? by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Try to police speech and expression and you fuck it up every time.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Funny

      Try to police speech and expression and you fuck it up every time.

      Slashdot's moderation system works pretty well.

    2. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by Tuidjy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, the policies are poorly written. Did you expect something else from Facebook?

      And I bet some specific populations are inflamed by "White men" being protected while "Black Children" are not.

      But you know what? "Black females" are more protected than "Christian children". "Lesbian Iraqi" are protected, while "White Europeans" are not.

      "Young Europeans are subhuman scum" is OK by the stated policies. "Muslim schizophrenics are dangerous" is to be censored.

      I bet if the article was written by a Fox news reporter, he would have focused on one of the latter examples. Once you know the flawed rules, you can manipulate them to produce inflammatory results.

      As for the slide? Who knows why they came up with such an example. Probably because they wanted the right answer to be reached through knowing the policy, as opposed to following one's gut feelings.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
    3. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Hey....why not give us white guys this one, eh?

      I mean, in EVERY other forum, it is perfectly normal and acceptable to ridicule and rant against white guys....it is never discrimination if it's against a white guy.

      Hell, look on tv, on shows and commercials....any time there is a goof, or buffoon, it is....yep, almost always a fat white guy.

      Heaven forbid you have a black guy or gal be the brunt of the joke or buffoonary...you'd get flooded with emails and protests of mysogny or racism.

      Hell, for that matter.....when did people of the same race stop marrying or dating each other...? I mean, on so many commercials today, I see mixed race couples.

      Why do that when mixed race couples are such a minority in the US?

      You're seeing it so much, you'd think it was the common demographic in the US.

      Oh well...sorry, just a white guy spouting off here....guess it's time to get modded down, because...well, you know....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh bullshit, white guys are still have more power and prestige in society than anyone else. Whining about how hard it is being a white guy makes you look extremely childish. And that fat white buffoon on the TV? He will always have a hot young wife. Oh look at that, the white guy is uncomfortable with mixed race couples and thinks there are too many of them on TV. Color me shocked.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    5. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      Oh look at that, the white guy is uncomfortable with mixed race couples and thinks there are too many of them on TV. Color me shocked.

      Never said I was uncomfortable or "phobic" about it...just that it is currently being so disproportionately displayed on TV that it is jarring enough to be extremely noticeable.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    6. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you read it it will also protect black men but not white children.

    7. Re: Who'd a Thunk? by saloomy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So who has more power and prestige in society: black men or white women? How about black women vs gay black men? Trying to rank demographics is what makes you a racist mother fucker and part of the problem. Yes, having white guys as the brunt of the jokes does a stereotype make, and it's sad. But it's not nearly as sad as trying to defend the stereotype because you feel achievement should be ridiculed. When we see past the stereotypes of who is being ridiculed, attacked, and disparaged is when racism will truely cease.

    8. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by flopsquad · · Score: 2

      This. It's just a mix and match game until you can outrage the right audience.

      Elderly White Priests (age + race + occupation) get no protection while Black Transgender Atheists (race + gender identity + religious affiliation) get special treatment?! Gawd help us, Facebook is the new Gomorrah!

      Poor South American Prostitutes (social class + contental origin + occupation) can go drink a hate speech cocktail while the White Protestant Sex Addicts (race + religious affiliation + disease) who frequent and exploit them get a gold star and another handjob?! FFS, Facebook! Shame! SHAME!!

      --
      Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.
    9. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by lucm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh bullshit, white guys are still have more power and prestige in society than anyone else.

      Let's put "White male owned business" on a company website and see how much prestige it will gain. Or let's have a "Men in tech" conference, or a "White lives matter" demonstration or a "whitecupid.com" dating site, and then we can revisit your statement.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    10. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by lucm · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Try putting a black sounding name on a resume and see how much prestige it gains

      Actually you would get hired. That's one of the most sought after demographics, especially in Silicon Valley.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    11. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by smallfries · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its much easier than that as their rules are logically inconsistent. I am not allowed to say "Women are shit", as it is a protected class. But both "women drivers are shit" and "women non-drivers are shit" are allowed as aubsets are not protected. So "Woman (both those that drive and those that don't) are shit" should get in, and "All Americans (apart from my mate Bob) are cunts" should pass their filter just fine.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    12. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by SharpFang · · Score: 3

      Let's put "demographics of homeless in USA" and check how "privileged" males are in comparison to females.

      It's easy to pick up the top 5% slice, dissect it, and claim any demographics prevalent there is "privileged".

      Look at the bottom 5%.

      Look at suicide rates. Look at life time expectancy - and causes (work-related usually). Look at incarceration times for the same crime, per gender.

      What you're doing is trying to help middle-class minorities to dominate the elites. But when you look at the bottom - at the poorest - you aren't doing SHIT! Because these most oppressed don't fit your narrative - because getting the shortest end of the stick are white men!

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    13. Re: Who'd a Thunk? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So who has more power and prestige in society: black men or white women? How about black women vs gay black men? Trying to rank demographics is what makes you a racist mother fucker and part of the problem.

      So close and yet so far. We're not running some sort of "Oppression Olympics" where the most oppressed demographic wins, at least not outside the minds of a bunch of internet commenters with a persecution complex.

      But things that people are biased against tend to have an additive effect. Pick some category, X then you will find that the people in X who are also, say, transsexual will on average have a harder time than those who are not.

      Yes, having white guys as the brunt of the jokes does a stereotype make, and it's sad.

      White guys form the majority of people on TV in the first place, so they're going to be the majority of all roles, including butt-of-joke ones.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    14. Re: Who'd a Thunk? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with this argument is that it's to do with medians and not individuals. If you pick a random white guy in the USA and compare him to a random woman of any colour, or to a black guy, then the odds are that he will have had more luck in the opportunities presented to him (which, for some reason, we now call 'privilege'). But there are a lot of individual pairs of white guy and black guy for which the converse is true. Do you think Obama had fewer opportunities than a white guy growing up in a trailer park?

      I'm a white guy, and I was fortunate to be born to comfortably off parents who valued education enough to send me to a good school and who encouraged my interests in a field that turned out to be in high demand. Every day on the way to work, I cycle past a few white guts who live on the street and have problems with substance abuse. Saying that we both have more power and prestige because we're white is nonsense. Some of us have more power and prestige because we have been really lucky. That correlates strongly with skin colour for various entrenched reasons to do with wealth distribution and social attitudes, but is in no way caused by skin colour.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    15. Re: Who'd a Thunk? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      There's no need to rank them. "White males" and "everyone else" works fine. The pro-discrimination crowd does more to rank than the affected groups. Get the Black gay women mad at the White gay women, for not being as disadvantaged. Then neither group is fighting the Privileged White Male, and that's the goal, right?

    16. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      All the studies have shown that Shwanda will get fewer calls than Betty, even when the resumes are identical, aside from the name. Though the studies didn't compare ethnic names from various backgrounds, so we don't know how Bubba Joe compares to Dejuan, and how both do against Ritesh or Achmat. We just know that ethnic Black names are avoided by those that do hiring.

    17. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by Minupla · · Score: 2

      if we could have a conversation about what the rules should be for once

      But that conversation is hard. It's easier to throw rocks at a straw-man (did anyone seriously think Facebook is a paragon of getting this right that we should hold them up as a measuring stick and find all hat/discrimination rules useless?)

      Min

      --
      On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
    18. Re: Who'd a Thunk? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Do you have a better word to describe this phenomena than “privilege”?

      Yes: luck.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re: Who'd a Thunk? by Tranzistors · · Score: 2

      A rich black guy has every bit the same opportunity as a rich white guy. A poor black guy has the same opportunities as a poor white guy.

      While I am not a sociologist, quick search for social mobility shows that poor blacks are more likely to stay poor.

    20. Re:Who'd a Thunk? by cyberchondriac · · Score: 2

      Well, that's ProRepublica for you.. and Gizmodo is buying into and passing along their SJW spin.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  2. Somewhat misleading headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The reason for the headline is that "children" is not a protected category, while skin color and gender both are.

    It's entirely about the words.
    "white men" are protected exactly as much as "black men" or "white women" or "black women", because both the noun and the adjective refer to protected categories.

    "black children" are protected, likewise, just as much as "white children" or "white adults" or "black adults"-- the second word in the phrase is not a protected category.

    1. Re:Somewhat misleading headline by omnichad · · Score: 4, Informative

      Misleading all around. But "black children" shouldn't be protected less than simply "black" but it appears to be the case in the article.

    2. Re:Somewhat misleading headline by Rockoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The whole concept of "protected class" is bereft of morality...

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    3. Re:Somewhat misleading headline by ganjadude · · Score: 4, Informative

      "All white people are racist. Start from this reference point, or you've already failed,"

      is quite a bit different than

      a U.S. congressman wrote a Facebook post in which he called for the slaughter of "radicalized" Muslims. "Hunt them, identify them, and kill them," declared U.S. Rep. Clay Higgins, a Louisiana Republican. "Kill them all. For the sake of all that is good and righteous. Kill them all."

      one is racist (ALL whites) and one is talking about "radical" islam, meaning the people we are actually at war with, ISIS and other groups

      it makes perfect sense why one of them, while still pretty harsh, isnt to the same level of being racist

      attacking a violent subset vs attacking a group based on their color

      facebook has a problem, but the comparisong isnt quite apples to apples

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    4. Re:Somewhat misleading headline by GuB-42 · · Score: 2

      Black children have two attributes : "black" and "child".
      They are not protected from attacks against their "child" attribute, only against their "black" attribute.

      Blacks only have single attribute, which is protected, and therefore are totally protected.

      That's the reasoning.
      In reality however, humans have many, many attributes, and only a few of them are protected, so attacks are possible on anyone. People are not totally defined by their race and gender, thankfully.

  3. While the point could be valid by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The author goes off the deep end when her ideology comes out somewhere halfway through the summary. To wit, the bit where she decries the disallowing of hate speech against white men in particular, because it's of course not possible to hate-speak against whitey for ~reasons~.

    1. Re:While the point could be valid by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "You need a society where there is systematic abuse of white men before they could possibly be the victim of hate speech."

      I never understood that twisted definition. I hear this commonly said, but it is completely made up. The words are "hate speech" not "denigrating speech targeted against a discriminated group"

    2. Re:While the point could be valid by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You need a society where there is systematic abuse of white men

      You mean like a society that has decided the only unprotected people are those that are both white and men?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    3. Re:While the point could be valid by ganjadude · · Score: 3, Insightful

      just because you dont get offended (neither do i) does not in anyway let the racists off the hook simply because you are white and they arent. they are still racist

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    4. Re:While the point could be valid by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >It's impossible because it's not possible for them to be victimized in that way.

      Yeah, that's what the racist would say. Can't possibly murder a negro; at most it's damage to property, right?

      >Having your feelings hurt != hate speech.

      Concrete discrimination against whites today starts from exactly the ideology where whitey cannot possibly be hurt, or damaged, or discriminated against in any way. So we have things like gender-based admission quotas that stop applying the second that the proportion of women to men increases past 1:1, 3:2, or whatever it was; and assistance for the underclasses that're deliberately inapplicable to white people regardless of background.

    5. Re:While the point could be valid by malkavian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, tell that to one of my white friends who escaped from Zimbabwe after her father was killed over the land they had. Her and her family escaped, but had a rather traumatic time getting out of the country (car jacked once, and her mother raped for being white).
      Now that's racism.

    6. Re: While the point could be valid by guruevi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Look again at society. If you want to see how disproportionately white men can be and are punished simply for being male and white, go to any court but especially family court.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    7. Re:While the point could be valid by epyT-R · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it's immoral to use race as a discriminator, then it's immoral regardless of the targeted race. If the racetype is used to determine the morality of the discrimination under the guise of fighting such discrimination, then the philosophy is illogical and self defeating.

      You need a society where there is systematic abuse of white men before they could possibly be the victim of hate speech.

      No. The individual situation matters, not some generalized assumption. You just need one person or institution in a position of power to discriminate for/against someone based on race for it to be an example of racism. The best thing for society is to provide a way for grievances to be heard in as unbiased a way as possible, equally, for ALL citizens. Your position (which is the popular GoodThink atm) demonizes specific groups (white/straight/male) by uniting everyone else against them (I'll let you draw the obvious historical parallels). By assuming it's just not possible for them to be discriminated against, you place them on second tier status, dehumanizing them.

    8. Re:While the point could be valid by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Hate speech", at least in US law, isn't just speech that expresses hate; that's Constitutionally protected. Hate speech laws pertain to acts that are already criminal such as vandalism or criminal threats, and incitement of imminent violence.

      In the US it absolutely is possible to commit a hate crime against white men. In fact SCOTUS in a landmark 1993 decision upheld the conviction of black teenagers who assaulted a white teenager under hate crime laws, holding that considering hatred as an aggravating (i.e., complicating) factor in a crime does not violate the First Amendment.

      Now hate speech in particular usually takes the form of groupintimidation. Burning a cross on a lawn isn't just a personal message, it's for the entire group. Since white men are (in most situations) a large and (again in most situations) high status group, it *is* quite difficult to do the intimidating form of hate speech (although not necessarily other kinds like the harassing forms). However it is certainly a logical possibility.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    9. Re: While the point could be valid by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Look again at society. If you want to see how disproportionately white men can be and are punished simply for being male and white, go to any court but especially family court.

      Men may be discriminated against in family court, but that is because of their gender, not their race. I have been discriminated against because of my gender many times. The worst was when I was a girl scout*. I endured some horrific abuse from the other scouts that felt I had no right to be there. But the only anti-white discrimination was in other countries. For instance, in China, they often have a higher posted admission prices for foreigners, which in practice means non-Asian looking.

      *Yes, I was a male girl scout. My mom was the scout leader, and she didn't believe in babysitters, so she dragged me along.

    10. Re:While the point could be valid by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Now hate speech in particular usually takes the form of groupintimidation. Burning a cross on a lawn isn't just a personal message, it's for the entire group. Since white men are (in most situations) a large and (again in most situations) high status group, it *is* quite difficult to do the intimidating form of hate speech (although not necessarily other kinds like the harassing forms). However it is certainly a logical possibility.

      That's pretty twisted, and is a slippery slope start.

      I mean, that could be used if someone wanted to create an art exhibition of burning crosses, nooses, etc......it is imagery, but with this logic, someone could say it was "hate speech" even if none were intended, because someone claimed it intimidated them or hurt their feelings.

      There should be no such thing as hate speech or hate laws......

      The things they are added to are already illegal.

      It is already illegal to threaten someone.

      It is already illegal to assault, or kill someone.

      Especially the murder one...I mean, the person is dead....what makes it worse if it was due to race? Someone kills a white guy.....dead.

      It is worse if they killed the white guy for his money, or if they killed him for his race?

      Dead is dead....so, no, there should not be "hate crimes". The crime is already against the law.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    11. Re: While the point could be valid by swillden · · Score: 2

      Look again at society. If you want to see how disproportionately white men can be and are punished simply for being male and white, go to any court but especially family court.

      Black men in criminal court would beg to differ. And not just a little.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    12. Re:While the point could be valid by PaulRivers10 · · Score: 2

      White men committing suicide 3x more than any other racial/gender group is yet another sign of their privilege! We need to figure out how to get those number of black women killing themselves up for equality! (Very strongly /s to be clear).

    13. Re:While the point could be valid by Tranzistors · · Score: 2

      You have confused “unprotected people” with “outlaws”.

  4. SJW by 110010001000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It must be very complicated trying to live as a SJW. I prefer just being nice to people.

  5. Wow, this is SJW message shaping at its best by guruevi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First of all, the article makes it seem like whites are protected while blacks aren't. That isn't the case, everyone in a group gets equal rights to censorship.

    However this is a clear example of Simpson's Paradox, if you split up your sample set enough, you get contradictory results.

    This is a direct result of SJW demands for censorship with a healthy dose of discrimination, you get a patchwork of rules that is neither based on word of law or common sense and can be cut and paste to fit pretty much every model.

    You can boil down and extend every SJW argument using the same logic and see that what they are asking for is not protection but discrimination.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    1. Re:Wow, this is SJW message shaping at its best by TheNarrator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What SJW want is to use their victim status to seize power and make whatever rules they feel like at the moment. An algorithm can't give them what they want because they don't want something that has limits and rules, they only want absolute, aribitrary power that doesn't have to explain itself consistently.

  6. So slashdot has to propagate the ignorant outrage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, this is taking the example way out of context. It's a perfect example of training material giving examples that on the surface seem legitimate and the having the less obvious example be the right answer. The example is done to prove a point and make people pay attention to detail. When talking about "protected" in today's world, everyone thinks of anything but white men. That's the point here. The right answer of an entire race is hiding with subsets of a gender and race.

    Had they shown a picture of black people, one of a white woman store clerk and one of white kids, people would have just chosen the picture of black people and not ever thought of why they did. To teach, you need to provoke thought, not just make it easy to select the right answer without knowing why.

  7. Science is absolutely biased. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Biased toward facts and truth.

  8. Just add an 'Ignore' button by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

    Clearly the solution is to stop policing speech and let every commercial web service turn into a swirling maelstrom of racial slurs.

    No, the solution is to make it easy for people to choose not to listen. In real life when some hate filled bigot is rambling on most of us are usually blissfully unaware of it since we choose not to go to whatever event s/he is speaking at.

    What these social media sites need is an "ignore" button that essentially blocks that person from any contact with the user who chooses to ignore them. This would have to be coupled with some mechanism to prevent users from creating multiple accounts as a means to get around the ignore. However a scheme like this lets everyone have their freedoms: the bigots have their freedom of speech to say what they want and the rest of us have our freedom to not hear it just like we do in real life.

    1. Re:Just add an 'Ignore' button by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      The trouble with that idea is that every new user would have thousands of bigots to block, unlike in real life. Until they've all been blocked, the site could resemble at least a moderate storm of racial slurs.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  9. Don't worry, it's a temp policy by s.petry · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As TFA states these are arbitrary policies that change all the time. People started complaining about the open discrimination and hatred for white males, and Facebook could not say "nuh uh" with the prevalence of posts doing exactly that. So for a while (read: until the coast is clear) they will address those issues.

    Pretty much how all authoritarian systems work, and history is chalk full of examples. Some are quite famous, but of course "it couldn't happen to me..".

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  10. Weird choice of examples by admiral+snackbar · · Score: 2

    It seems to me the choice of examples is intended to show Facebook is racist. But in my opinion it fails to do so. Their rules may be stupid, but if applied consistently they are not racist. Example: White men is protected, but Black Children is not. Ok. Question. Is Black men protected? I assume so, if I understand the Facebook rules correctly. Is White children protected? Again, if I understand the Facebook rules correctly, then the answer is no. So what do we have: white children. Not protected. black children, not protected. white men: protected. black men: protected. Then the sex discrimination that is implied: apparently female drivers is not protected, while white men is. Fine. But the question is: Is 'white females' protected? If I understand the rules correctly, yes it is. Is mMale drivers protected? If I understand the rules correctly, it isn't. So what do we have: white males protected, as is white females (and consequently, also black females). female drivers not protected, male drivers not protected. So based in the information I see, you cannot conclude that Facebook's rules are either racist or sexist. They are stupid as fuck, but not racist or sexist.

  11. Piece of shit summary and article. by aliquis · · Score: 2

    Dishonest and angled as fuck.

    Black men would be protected.
    White teens wouldn't.

    Angled dishonest confusing SJW propaganda.
    "Hate speech" shouldn't be a concept banned and censored.
    Because of hate speech laws we lack and actual debate and public support for our own genocide and invasion by unwanted people. We never got a chance to talk about and affect it. Where will that leave things? Why would we have to support and respect what we never agreed to and which was enforced upon us by the non-democratic rulers?
    When civil-war and terror are the only options to affect things because you are silenced and ignored?

    Biggest treason, genocide and catastrophe of Europe ever.