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The US Considers A Remote Identification System For Drones (engadget.com)

An anonymous reader quotes Engadget: The FAA is still trying to figure out the best way to regulate drones to ensure safety. Last week, a committee tasked with tackling the issue met for the first time, including representatives from Amazon, Ford and NYPD. One of the items discussed was a better way to identify registered drones from the ground since any ID numbers are pretty much invisible while the UAV is airborne...

As Recode notes, Congress is working to restore mandatory registration which would be key to tying a drone to its owner for the purposes of any remote identification... Back in March, [drone manufacturer] DJI proposed what it calls an "electronic identification framework" for all drones that would give authorities in the U.S. information about the owner when necessary. That proposal includes using the radio tech DJI says is already on most drones to transmit details like location and registration number. EPIC (Electronic Privacy Information Center) made a similar recommendation back in January 2016... [T]he FAA committee is scheduled to meet again on July 18th. Any formal recommendations are currently due to the agency by September 30th.

99 comments

  1. Mumble mumble by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Agenda 21 mumble mumble.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:Mumble mumble by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 2

      Agenda 21 mumble mumble.

      OK... From The Wikipedia:

      Agenda 21 is a non-binding, voluntarily implemented action plan of the United Nations with regard to sustainable development. It is a product of the Earth Summit (UN Conference on Environment and Development) held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, in 1992. It is an action agenda for the UN, other multilateral organizations, and individual governments around the world that can be executed at local, national, and global levels.

      So, I'm really not seeing the connection unless you are saying that regulating drones is some "evil" United Nations secret plan for World Domination...

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    2. Re:Mumble mumble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah you believe that if you want.

    3. Re: Mumble mumble by dougdonovan · · Score: 1

      the us considers...

    4. Re:Mumble mumble by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      ACARS for Drones.

    5. Re:Mumble mumble by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      ACARS is a telex link used to send data to the aircraft and back -- point to point. You mean ADS-B, specifically ADS-B out, a broadcast system.

      Given that people can build their own from parts, you're going to create a huge mess by shoehorning drones into the ADS-B system. (My drone identifies as Air Force One! Haaaaaa! haa!) You'll be creating a costly mess by creating a new ADS-B system for drones.

    6. Re:Mumble mumble by fedos · · Score: 1

      It's not clear from your comment whether you're mocking morons who listen to Alex Jones or if you are a moron who listens to Alex Jones.

    7. Re:Mumble mumble by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know the saying about the sucker at a poker game? Perhaps it applies to morons on internet forums.

  2. Re:Slashvertisement/Testimonial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well as long as I'm so fat I can't even see or get at my penis, at least I can't be accused of rape by SJWs... or wait, maybe not. hmm..

  3. Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    People who seek to do harm or make trouble will just mod their drone so it doesn't squawk anything. This is another feel-good regulation that mostly serves to inconvenience the type of people who are going to follow the rules anyway.

    1. Re:Useless by turkeydance · · Score: 2

      tax....as well as inconvenience

    2. Re:Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who seek to do harm or drive under the influence will just remove their license tags. This is just another feel good regulation that mostly serves to inconvenience the type of people who are going to follow the rules anyway. ...maybe you haven't thought this through very well.

    3. Re:Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What in the actual F are you talking about? "Money and time for my safety"? What is this? More liberal dreams of nanny states?

      I tell you what... when a weaponized drone tries to do some shit, the real Americans will fire back, because F being scared all the time.

    4. Re:Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "bad people" don't give a sh!t about complying with registration laws. And, neither do most good people that understand that this is nothing more than security theater.

    5. Re:Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      People who seek to do harm or drive under the influence will just remove their license tags. This is just another feel good regulation that mostly serves to inconvenience the type of people who are going to follow the rules anyway.

      I'd say that's a perfectly accurate statement. The main reason license tags exist is to be a vehicle for taxation (bad pun intended). Having license plates doesn't stop crime or DUIs, and the rise of automated LPR cameras makes them just another way for the government to keep tabs on everyone.

    6. Re:Useless by jezwel · · Score: 1
      No need to worry, unlicensed drones will simply be shot down.

      People who seek to do harm or drive under the influence will just remove their license tags.

      Never seen this, though I would imagine that ANPR systems are already flagging these to police right now - or should be...

    7. Re: Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So any drones found flying without valid identification can be taken out with extreme prejudice, problem solved.

    8. Re:Useless by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      People who seek to do harm or make trouble will just mod their drone so it doesn't squawk anything.

      That may not be easy to do. How many people have the ability to write their own DroneOS? I have a Mavic Pro, and registering with the FAA was a mandatory part of the installation process. There is no "skip" button. So I either register, or I spend the next 10 years writing my own code to fly my drone. It is likely that squawking an ID will be the same. Very few people will have the skills to bypass it.

      We really need to get the NRA to defend drone rights. I had to register my drone, but not my assault rifle. Yet the drone would be way more useful in an insurrection. They should be classified as militia weapons protected under the 2nd Amd.

    9. Re:Useless by cciRRus · · Score: 1

      That may not be easy to do. How many people have the ability to write their own DroneOS?

      By using existing open-source firmware such as Ardupilot for open-source hardware such as PixHawk?

      --
      w00t
    10. Re: Useless by Jesus+H+Rolle · · Score: 1

      You must be thinking of rc quadcopters carrying pistols. Try autonomous high-performance fragmentation bombs with facial recognition. Like one of these , but exploding like a grenade when in close proximity to any valid target.

    11. Re:Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He doesn't actually know how to build anything, just buy stuff.

    12. Re:Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who seek to do harm or make trouble will just mod their drone so it doesn't squawk anything.

      Such regulation will obviously not stop high-tech terrorists. It will help out in a lot of other cases though:

      * Low-tech terrorists who simply strap a stick of dynamite and some nasty insecticide to a drone they bought from a store
      * Peeping toms using a camera drone to spy on sunbathing women
      * Idiots who fly drones where they shouldn't - so when they loose control, the drone falls into crowds or into traffic.

      The last one will be the biggest problem by far - there being many more idiots than terrorists. They won't be able to walk away pretending they don't know whose amateur drone caused high-speed car crash or a head injury. And if all (standard) drones broadcast ID, you'll be able to buy a cheap receiver box that identifies any drones flying over your property. You may then lodge complaints till the cops confiscate the peeping toms drone.

    13. Re:Useless by mysidia · · Score: 1

      will just mod their drone so it doesn't squawk anything.

      Which makes them easily detectable. "Drones that fail to identify flying more than 100ft high up or within 1000ft of any property other than the drone owner's private land can be shot down on sight"

    14. Re:Useless by mysidia · · Score: 1

      There is no "skip" button.

      By tricking the drone into thinking it has registered when it has not. MITM Attack, firmware or memory data modification, Etc

    15. Re:Useless by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I think most drones should be illegal anyway. Even if 99% of drone owner/operators are using them in a reasonable, legal, non-privacy-invading, non-safety-hazard way, the 1% of assholes who use them in dangerous, illegal, and invasive ways are going to ruin it for everyone else who is playing by the rules, therefore they should make any drone larger than a childs toy illegal in the U.S. unless you're a professional drone pilot and are filing for permits for specific uses.

      ..and not, naturally, the asshole drone people will rip me a new one, as they stamp their feet, scream at their monitors, and destroy their keyboards by pounding on them in anger, for daring to say that they should be made accountable for their actions. TOUGH SHIT. Face it: You've ruined something cool for everyone else because you can't control yourselves and act like reasonable human beings. You could have kept your drones out the way of emergency vehicles and aircraft, but you didn't. You could have kept them out of people's faces, but you didn't. You could have got some help for your pedophilia, but you didn't. You could have resisted the urge to invade people's privacy, but you didn't. I'm not even going to talk about actual criminals using drones intentionally for criminal acts because that's a tiny minority compared to the random mentally ill jackass whose addled brain can't comprehend that what he's doing is wrong. Rage all you want, jackass drone abusers, I don't care. You're the ones who are wrong, and now you're ruining it for everyone else. I hope the rest of them find you and kick the shit out of you.

    16. Re:Useless by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but it does help when someone who isn't seeking to do harm or make trouble in fact does do harm or make trouble. Might stop kids from doing something dumb. But in general, yeah, it's not going to do much.

    17. Re:Useless by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      I have a Mavic Pro, and registering with the FAA was a mandatory part of the installation process.

      Huh? How can DJI make a step that isn't mandatory, mandatory?

      So I either register, or I spend the next 10 years writing my own code to fly my drone.

      Registering with the FAA doesn't mean your drone is transmitting an identification. It means you've registered it with the FAA.

      It is likely that squawking an ID will be the same. Very few people will have the skills to bypass it.

      1. Find the antenna.

      2. Cut the wire.

      3. ???

      4. Profit!

      Step 2 might be changed to "paint over the circuit board antenna with conductive paint", or just "unplug the antenna" if there is a connector. Three very easy things for people to do, especially people who are motivated to not be identified flying illegally.

      They should be classified as militia weapons protected under the 2nd Amd.

      There is no such thing as a "militia" weapon. The 2nd amendment talks about "arms".

    18. Re:Useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I’m building my hobby drones myself and I will not install such a system into them for 3 main reasons:

      1. the system will need to be “certified” so it will cost a lot of money probably $1000 and up;

      2. It will add weight and consume battery power;

      3. It will enable anyone with a “scanner” to read my personal information

    19. Re:Useless by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      will just mod their drone so it doesn't squawk anything.

      Which makes them easily detectable.

      What? You have it 180 degrees backwards. Why do you think transponders are required in manned aircraft when flying in certain airspace, if flying without a transponder will "make them easily detectable"? Have you ever tried to see a drone at 400' AGL that is 2000' away? Easily detectable?

    20. Re: Useless by CheapEngineer · · Score: 1

      If you are scared all the time drones are not your problem, you are.

    21. Re: Useless by CheapEngineer · · Score: 1

      At some point can you be bothered to say what incident 'has ruined it for everyone'? Because there haven't been any number of injuries above single digits, and no deaths after 3 years of cheap drones.

    22. Re: Useless by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      All it takes is once. You really want to wait around for that 'once' to happen? So far the patterns of behavior of some drone owners, and some of the incidents that have been in the news are creating a pattern of behavior that doesn't draw a pretty picture. You can't deny that there are some people out there with drones that are making life difficult for everyone else, and that sucks but it can't be ignored either. If you don't like that or think it's grossly unfair then I understand, but don't get mad at me, get mad at the misbehaving drone owners who are helping make negative publicity, they're the ones that are creating an environment where you 'right' to fly your toy is being curtailed; I'm just and advocate for public safety and the rights of everyone else, and I'm never going to apologize for that.

  4. Alrighty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, that'll solve it once and for all. Done! NEXT!

  5. Isn't this already a solved problem? by scdeimos · · Score: 1

    Full-size manned and unmanned aircraft are required to have ADS-B transmitters. These drones already have the required GPS receivers so it seems to me like this would be an ideal time to push for miniturization of the technology to use on drones.

    Bonus: ADS-B will make drones visible to all other aircraft in the vicinity.

    1. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the ADS-B system is very inefficient. In busy airspace the system is already saturated during daytime. Adding more transmitters to ADS-B is not possible without adding many more receivers to reduce the cell size. ADS-B uses a transmitter output power in excess of 100W. This is too much for small drones.

    2. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This should be the solution. ADS-B is a stupidly simple protocol. Really all one would need is a small radio transmitter of the appropriate frequency and power tied to a spare GPIO pin on the drone's controller. Some code in the controller to properly modulate the GPIO to transmit GPS coordinates, altitude, and the drone registration number. This would let ATC as well as surrounding aircraft to see the drone as just another aircraft. ATC could identify and send a warning/fine to anyone breaking airspace rules, and other aircraft could use it to avoid the drone just as they do for other aircraft.

    3. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the end though you know some big drone manufacturer like DJI will roll their own implementation, get it approved, and reap the rewards of the licencing fees from everyone else to implement on their drones. It's the american way

    4. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do they have GPS receivers that allow them to transmit anything but "quality" indication set to "zero"?

    5. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's the american way

      It's the everything way. [Some of] the pins in euro spec automobiles are, by ISO standard, power timer, junior power timer, and micro power timer pins. E.g. stereo wiring.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      ADS-B uses a transmitter output power in excess of 100W. This is too much for small drones.

      What would be the result of using the same protocol at lower power levels? Would aircraft be able to see drones, perhaps with some kind of directional antenna? Could you point a highly directional antenna at a drone to read its output deliberately, ala bluesniper? Or is it just wholly unsuitable? And if so, what should be used instead?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would work, with a very small range. The current ADS-B reception network is designed for altitudes above around 2km. The lower you fly the more the signal is blocked by obstacles. This will certainly be true for small UAS operating at tens of meters. Reducing the power will further restrict the range as it will need to compete with high power, high altitude, users of the already congested channel.

      Other planes may see it, depending on congestion conditions and how close they are. It may come up a as a surprise though when clearance is already lower than you would want. Directional antenna from the ground would work for sure.

      The ADS-B network has support for transmitting updates to planes, so it would IMHO be better to provide an internet based API to upload your coordinates. The real ground station network could then transmit it to planes. The data would also be directly available to ATC.

    8. Re: Isn't this already a solved problem? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The result would be that you'd have to be much closer to the drone to read it. Depending on frequency and power you'll be proscribing, this could be several meters to several km. Given larger drones, a 1-2W transmitter isn't completely out of this world and only needs to burst once every few seconds.

      And yes, if you build a good unidirectional receiver and you have line of sight, even lower power would be readable from quite a distance.

      The primary problem is throwing a transceiver for the new protocol into airplanes, that is neither free nor easy.

      Also, things for consumers end up malfunctioning way more both intentionally and unintentionally than a well maintained commercial aircraft. If you use similar protocols and frequencies than existing commercial systems you may end up doing more harm than good, a drone will most likely be pulverized by a collision with an aircraft without too much damage. A malfunctioning radio system could easily affect an entire airport.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    9. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A transmitter of a couple watts would likely be sufficient for some advance warning. A drone flying above 100ft or so is probably clear of about 95% of radio obstacles in an average area and thus would have radio line of sight with any planes in the immediate region. A couple watts should have several miles of range. If the drone is below a point where there are radio obstacles, then its probably of no concern to nearby aircraft since they would be well above said obstacles, unless you were within a mile or so range of an airport in the direct takeoff/landing path.

      If you're flying the drone in a dense urban environment then its kind of a mute point, the planes aren't going to be there and the ADS-B signal could still be used by authorities with some kind of handheld receiver that could pick up the registration number of any drones flying within several hundred feet in such an environment. As far as such a hand held receiver picking up the ADS-B signals from farther out aircraft with 100W transmitters. If the drone registration IDs have a particular prefix such a device could be coded to filter out all IDs that don't match the drone prefix.

      As far as picking up multiple drones in such an urban environment, my guess if there were several drones in flight within hundreds of feet, they're probably all violating the same rules and good targets. Even if they aren't all violating the rules its a really good starting point for some good old fashioned detective work.

    10. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by citizenr · · Score: 1

      except gliders/paragliders/ultralights are all EXEMPT from transponders, and they are significantly bigger/more dangerous.

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    11. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not more dangeerous; they're generally flown by people who intend to live through the experience and consequently don't do stupid dangerous shit. This is veery different than overgrown toddlers with their expensive toys and no skin in the game.

    12. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by cstacy · · Score: 1

      They're not more dangeerous; they're generally flown by people who intend to live through the experience and consequently don't do stupid dangerous shit. This is veery different than overgrown toddlers with their expensive toys and no skin in the game.

      ^^^mod up, someone

      I get mod points all the time, but never on the days I really want them.

    13. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Full-size manned and unmanned aircraft are required to have ADS-B transmitters.

      No. The requirement is airspace-based, not aircraft. And not until 2020. 91.225 specifies where aircraft need ADS-B OUT.

      1. Class A airspace. Not relevant to most drones, and requires ADS-B OUT ES (extended squitter). Most drones don't have squitters to start with, but they also don't fly in class A airspace.

      2. Class B and C airspace. Some of this extends below 400', so appears to apply to drones.

      3. Within 30 nautical miles of airspace listed in app. D. (Big airports.) Also surface up.

      4. Class E above 10000' MSL, excluding airspace below 2500' AGL. Since Part 107 has a limit of 400' (as do many COAs, and the hobby rules), this doesn't apply to drones.

      However, here's this:

      (e) The requirements of paragraph (b) of this section do not apply to any aircraft that was not originally certificated with an electrical system, or that has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed,

      Now I can't speak for all drones, but I know none of the DJIs I have owned or used have electrical systems that are certified to FAA standards. Does yours? Also, the rules for ADS-B require GPS certified to FAA standards. Does the GPS in your drone meet the FAA certification standards? I'm not going to go look it up, but I'm pretty sure that WAAS is a requirement, and I don't know of a drone system that has WAAS augmentation.

      this would be an ideal time to push for miniturization of the technology to use on drones.

      The FAA regulations require ADS-B OUT equipment manufactured to specific TSO standards. Manned aircraft do not need, and therefore will not get, ADS-B equipment that is small enough to put on a drone, and it will cost a lot of money for such equipment to be built. The second that you make it an FAA TSO product and mandated in aircraft, the price multiplies by a factor of ten, at least. For example, the Icom IC-A220 Panel Mount VHF Air Band Transceiver has a list price of $2200 for what amounts to an 8 watt AM VHF dual channel radio with built in weather radio. I can buy a similarly functional handheld (on FM VHF) from China for less than $100.

      Not to mention, flooding the ADS-B system with Phantom 4 and 3 and Mavic and all the other mid-sized drone data is going to create havoc. Many years ago they came out with Mode C transponders which report aircraft altitude and made it similarly mandatory to ADS-B. The situation is currently that you can be told to turn your transponder to standby (not off, but not responding) in areas of high density transponder traffic. Let's not make ADS-B so saturated that it suffers the same fate.

    14. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ADS-B certified receivers are $300+; transmitters are $1000+

    15. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      ADS-B uses a transmitter output power in excess of 100W.

      No. According to this, the minimum power output at the antenna input is 7 watts for low level service. Most drones are not going to be operating in medium (16 watt) or high (100W) airspace. This is for UAT systems; the ES systems do require higher power, but no drone is going to be carrying a full transponder with a squitter to start with.

      Considering that the output is a data pulse, the battery drain is not a constant.

      In busy airspace the system is already saturated during daytime.

      Yes. With 100W to 250W transmitters operating at high altitude, that's a normal result. And it will only get worse as the 2020 deadline approaches.

    16. Re: Isn't this already a solved problem? by CheapEngineer · · Score: 1

      A 'couple of watts' is already more than twice the power of any system on most $2000 drones.

    17. Re:Isn't this already a solved problem? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      They're not more dangeerous; they're generally flown by people who intend to live through the experience and consequently don't do stupid dangerous shit.

      The impact of a ultralight landing on your roof is significantly more than a Phantom 3 doing the same, both to your roof and to the pilot. That is why they can rightfully be called "more dangerous".

      Your "A thus B" argument is demonstrably false, since many people who intend to live through the experience manage to do things that are quite stupid and dangerous anyway. There is a long history of NTSB reports of people who intended to live through the last flight they ever made but did something stupid or dangerous and that's why it turned out to be the last flight they ever made. For example, the pilot of a US Dept of Interior airplane who intended to return to home base and drive home to dinner but wound up pancaked against the side of a mountain because he stupidly decided to try scud running. Or many people who intended to return home after buzzing their neighbor's house but managed to spin it in and never got home.

    18. Re: Isn't this already a solved problem? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      A 'couple of watts' is already more than twice the power of any system on most $2000 drones.

      Except the motors, for example. A 4.5Ah 15V battery that lasts 20 minutes means that it is drawing 13A, or 195 W. Approximately. That's what my DJI P3 battery/lifetime is. Ok, four motors, so each is only using 50W -- continuous.

      A 10W pulsed data transmitter would run for quite some time. Assuming a 5% duty cycle (very large for ADS-B), 50% efficiency, that's 1W. At 15V, that's an average draw of 66mA, or 0.5% of the current already being used. This decreases the flight time from 20 minutes by an incredibly massive 6 whole seconds.

  6. Re:Slashvertisement/Testimonial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can still be accused of "unwanted advances", which these days is just as bad. I'm so fat and disgusting, pretty much any advance I make is gonna be considered unwanted. I'll be accused, then fired, then fat and unemployed. Not a good place to be.

  7. bullshit by ooloorie · · Score: 0, Troll

    As Recode notes, Congress is working to restore mandatory registration which would be key to tying a drone to its owner for the purposes of any remote identification...

    Translation: "we want more taxes, and we want citizens to learn to obey, submit, and live in fear of authority."

    As a safety or security measure, this is useless.

    Back in March, [drone manufacturer] DJI proposed what it calls an "electronic identification framework" for all drones that would give authorities in the U.S. information about the owner when necessary.

    Yes, drive up the cost of entry into the market, create costly requirements, and keep competition away.

    EPIC (Electronic Privacy Information Center) made a similar recommendation back in January 2016

    Progressive authoritarians masquerading as champions of privacy again it seems.

    1. Re:bullshit by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      Progressive authoritarians masquerading as champions of privacy again it seems.

      yeah, just read this shit!

      EPIC is involved with wide range of civil liberties, consumer protection, and human rights issues. EPIC has pursued several successful consumer privacy complaints with the US Federal Trade Commission, concerning Snapchat (faulty privacy technology), WhatsApp (privacy policy after acquisition by Facebook), Facebook (changes in user privacy settings), Google (roll-out of Google Buzz), Microsoft (Hailstorm log-in), and Choicepoint (sale of personal information to identity thieves). EPIC has also prevailed in significant Freedom of Information Act cases against the CIA, the DHS, the Dept. of Education, the FBI, the NSA, the ODNI, and the TSA. EPIC has also filed many "friend of the court" briefs on law and technology, including Riley v. California (U.S. 2014) (concerning cell phone privacy), and litigated important privacy cases, including EPIC v. DHS (D.C. Cir. 2011), which led to the removal of the x-ray body scanners in US airports, and EPIC v. NSA (D.C. Cir. 2014), which led to the release of the NSA's formerly secret cybersecurity authority. EPIC also challenged the NSA's domestic surveillance program in a petition to the US Supreme Court. In re EPIC, (U.S. 2013) after the release of the "Verizon Order" in June 2013. One of EPIC's current cases concerns the obligation of the Federal Aviation Administration to establish privacy regulations prior to the deployment of commercial drones in the United States.

      totally authoritarians!

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    2. Re:bullshit by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Yet, they have no problems advocating that people be forced to put wireless transmitters on their drones. That's the problem with organizations like that: what they do is mostly about self-aggrandizement and preaching to the choir, not principles.

      Sorry, I don't believe anything they have done has made my life more private or more secure. I think they are irrelevant.

    3. Re:bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet, they have no problems advocating that people be forced to put wireless transmitters on their drones.

      You should read the actual lawsuit to find out their problems. They set them forth.

      That's the problem with organizations like that: what they do is mostly about self-aggrandizement and preaching to the choir, not principles.

      Really, in what way? Do be specific. Offer particular details to support your contention.

      Sorry, I don't believe anything they have done has made my life more private or more secure. I think they are irrelevant.

      I think your beliefs are irrelevant, what with them not being based on any actual facts.

    4. Re:bullshit by RichZellich · · Score: 1

      And what's next? Since criminals use automobiles, and the cops "need" to know who's driving any given car in the vicinity of a crime, will the DoT also require an ID transmitter in every car?

      The FCC found out that requiring every CB operator in the country to have a "license" was a huge burden on them, and served no functional purpose, and finally gave it up as a bad job. I suspect the millions of quadcopters and hexcopters (do we have octocopters yet?) will be the same. Perhaps they should stop conflating hobby and small-business quadcopters with actual _drones_, and they'd stop thinking both types of object need to be licensed and controlled in the same way and for the same reasons.

    5. Re:bullshit by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 0

      Sorry, I don't believe anything they have done has made my life more private or more secure. I think they are irrelevant.

      That doesn't mean they haven't, it means you're self-deluded.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    6. Re:bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course there's octocopters, they're YUUUUUGE.

    7. Re: bullshit by guruevi · · Score: 1

      The FCC finds lots of things too burdensome yet still regulates them, that way, if they want to put you away, they can.

      Do you have any imported electronics without an FCC certification? Perhaps from Amazon or Newegg (early RPi or RPi clones) - illegal or a cheap USB WiFi adapter - illegal.

      Ever tried to get anything FCC certified? It's 10k and several months for 1 round of testing thus almost nobody does it for low volume items.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    8. Re: bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry as soon as the Republicans get fired in. They will put and end to all of these anti freedom laws.

      Wait, what? The Republican Trump and the Republican Senate and Republican House and the Republican SCOTUS are already in power?

      Why the duck are you blaming liberal or progressives then? Seems like the Republicans are either useless or hypocrites.

    9. Re:bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what's next? Since criminals use automobiles, and the cops "need" to know who's driving any given car in the vicinity of a crime, will the DoT also require an ID transmitter in every car?

      Oh by the Gods, they ALREADY HAVE!

      The FCC found out that requiring every CB operator in the country to have a "license" was a huge burden on them, and served no functional purpose, and finally gave it up as a bad job. I suspect the millions of quadcopters and hexcopters (do we have octocopters yet?) will be the same. Perhaps they should stop conflating hobby and small-business quadcopters with actual _drones_, and they'd stop thinking both types of object need to be licensed and controlled in the same way and for the same reasons.

      CB Radio didn't cause near the same problems for innocent people that all these drones are. I mean really, a few Smokey and the Bandit movies, versus Predator?

      Not to mention how this "burden" is not any different than all the WiFi devices with a unique ID, or all the Cell Phones, because you know what? The manufacturers fucking need to do it anyway.

    10. Re:bullshit by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      That doesn't mean they haven't, it means you're self-deluded.

      You're welcome to worship some self-righteous academic if you like. I think you're finding increasingly the rest of the country doesn't care about these people or their positions.

    11. Re:bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention how this "burden" is not any different than all the WiFi devices with a unique ID, or all the Cell Phones, because you know what? The manufacturers fucking need to do it anyway.

      Ah, the progressive mantra: we messed up the old markets, so it imperative to mess up the new ones too!

      Go to hell.

    12. Re: bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, yes, ooloorie, close your eyes tight, cover your ears and scream as loudly as you can while stomping your feet.

      That's a very effective way to have a tantrum, isn't it?

    13. Re: bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's right, ooloorie, scream your hate-word, totally ignore that the technical resolution of identification is a real and necessary step for remote operations and just rage over phantom demons.

    14. Re:bullshit by mccrew · · Score: 1

      And what's next? Since criminals use automobiles, and the cops "need" to know who's driving any given car in the vicinity of a crime, will the DoT also require an ID transmitter in every car?

      Good point, but we're already there. License plate readers are becoming ubiquitous, so that with a simple database query a longitudinal history of your car's whereabouts can easily be determined long after the fact. The FBI is flying planes over US cities, for who-knows-what reasons, but possibly recording traffic so that any particular vehicle of interest can be traced back to where it came from.

      --
      Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
    15. Re: bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't know. But you tell me since you're doing it. Is it working for you? Does it make you feel all tingly?

  8. Jenna Bush Has AIDS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You heard it here first.

    1. Re:Jenna Bush Has AIDS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what you get when you have sex with Africans.

  9. Re:Slashvertisement/Testimonial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe you can find a nice fat girl to be with. I'm sure there's lots of lonely fat chicks out there that might enjoy being with you. Take a chance! You'll never get anywhere unless you try.

  10. should use IPV4 to send/query registration id... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so Bad Guys can set the Evil Bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_bit
    Much more convenient for all concerned.

  11. Re:Slashvertisement/Testimonial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even fat chicks want guys with jobs.

  12. When drones are outlawed .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... only outlaws will have drones.

    1. Re:When drones are outlawed .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... only outlaws will have drones.

      when anon drones are outlawed, only inlaws will have anon. drones. ;~)

    2. Re:When drones are outlawed .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In SOVIET DRONISTAN people don't kill, drones do, in you.

  13. Re:Slashvertisement/Testimonial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

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    But taking a shit is where things really become problematic. I have to lower myself down on the can while grabbing and spreading my fat ass cheeks as wide as I can. You see, If I can get my sphynxster stretched open while seated, there's less of a chance that the shit will slide along the sides of my giant buttocks on it's way out. If that happens, it's a real problem because basically I'm unable to wipe myself. It's just too far to reach - what with my limited mobility and all. There've been times where the shit didn't come out clean, and I've smelled like a sewer until I can get back to my Toto Washlet S350e.

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    Some a-hole modded this down, so I will re-post here - effectively modding it to +1 Informative

  14. Well, Naturally... by BlueStrat · · Score: 0

    Naturally, the government wants a way to find and squash video evidence taken by hobbyist drones of government incompetence and/or criminal actions, and be able to locate, silence, and/or imprison drone operators who would dare try to reveal what they want to remain hidden from the general public. Drones being used rather ubiquitously & anonymously by the general public aids in empowering them against government abuse, corruption/criminality, & overreach. Government already uses drones domestically and doesn't want the public having the same capabilities.

    Now that the US military has started issuing infantry soldiers backpack recon drones, a 2nd Amendment case could be made that drones are a civil right.

    Strat

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    1. Re:Well, Naturally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much. How are they going to enforce custom made home built drones to be identified? The vast majority of drones in the air right now are home built. DJI and Parrot are actually expensive toys that are in the minority here. From where I stand, this is an attempt to silence all the people using camera drones to do detective work from revealing criminal behavior of a lot of rich and prominent people (My favorite is watching those drone guys use it to expose rich abusing animals). All this is going to do is make these casual and commercial drones prohibitively expensive, but it's not going to stop DIY drones. Google has been on the forefront of trying to stop drones because the top management doesn't like them flying in their backyards (Their latest BS claim was a drone took out the power).

      And DJI is only putting their ridiculous restrictions due to prominent communists officials being exposed doing naughty things thanks to these drones, while the rest of the world has to suffer because of their nonsense.

      In the mean time, this is going to do absolutely nothing to stop people from flying drones. It's as ridiculous as trying to stop teenagers from skateboarding, when a DIY drone can be had for less than a few hundred dollars now that outperforms the casual drones in every way in altitude, size and speed. You can buy a nice board with opensource software and pretty much do whatever you want with it, including a camera gimbal rig.

    2. Re:Well, Naturally... by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      How are they going to enforce custom made home built drones to be identified?

      Well, if past patterns hold true and they do decide to go all-in on registration/tracking, there's already a convenient blueprint for the politicians to follow.

      Welcome to; "The War On (unregistered/untrackable) Drones(TM)"

      "Alright, kid! Let's see registration papers for that drone and show me some picture I.D.!"

      "But Sir, I'm only 9 years old!?"

      "Sure, just an innocent young radical-in-training out for a stroll with an unregistered spy drone! Alright, on the ground, face-down...and don't make any sudden moves, my partner has you covered with his M4 carbine!"

      "Mommy!!"
      [BANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANG]...[BANGBANG]

      After a couple of "tragic incidents", what parent would allow their child to play with a drone? How many adults would want to fly drones as a hobby?

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    3. Re:Well, Naturally... by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      The vast majority of drones in the air right now are home built. DJI and Parrot are actually expensive toys that are in the minority here.

      Citation required. I believe it is exactly the opposite. Literally millions of off-the-shelf drones from DJI and their small handful of competitors, and a rapidly dwindling number of home/custom-built machines regularly in any kind of use. The complete integration and ease of use in products like DJI's make that a no-brainer for the millions of people who are flying around for fun. Most pro photographers/videographers don't have the time to build, tweak, and maintain a custom rig - they just need a camera in the air and for it all to work: enter DJI and almost every price point.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    4. Re:Well, Naturally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parents who buy their kids overpriced "toys" are a serious problem, but that started with Cabbage-Patch Kids.

  15. hobby drones are model aircraft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is the government going to require "remote identification" transmitters on r/c model airplanes at the local flying field? I think not. They why do they think 4-rotor models ("drones") are different?

  16. Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems to me that this is nearly pointless in achieving the goal of identifying someone using a drone improperly unless the user is dumb. There's always going to be a drone out there that you can flash the software of to prevent it from sending the broadcast ID signal (or rip the broadcasting part out, or assembled from parts and never has this in the first place) And unless you have some way of spotting the drone and capturing it (when it's not broadcasting where it is), you won't grab it to see any other ID (which you can just file off anyways). I think eventually we're just going to have to accept that some regulation, even if well intentioned, isn't going to do anything.

    The reason we catch people breaking traffic laws is we have a massive network of enforcement officials /and/ the operator is inside the vehicle. You'd have the same issue now prosecuting someone who had a remotely operated car who filed off the serial numbers of the parts that have them (very intentionally hard in cars, but there's not that same issue in a 50 lb device)

  17. So why are we fighting a war in the middle east by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When it is our own government that wants enslave and cuckold its own citizenry.

  18. lol no chance im doing this crap to my toys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When lego's have transponder my flying toys will get them too

  19. Traffic jams by Max_W · · Score: 1

    About half of the traffic on roads is a delivery of documents and small parcels, which could be easily automated by drones. Certainly, reducing traffic is not what some lobbies want.

    I think this is the underwater reason of these prohibitive measures.

  20. Modulated reflector - technology that could be use by XNormal · · Score: 1

    https://www.google.com/patents...

    The tag is an almost-passive device with tiny power consumption. It can be read by a device with a directional antenna mounted on a pair of binoculars, for example.

    --
    Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
  21. Replace 'drones' with 'guns' by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    and you'd have half the country freaking the heck out. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader whether that's a good thing or not.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Replace 'drones' with 'guns' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come back when you've found the part of the Constitution that protects your Right to "keep and fly drones"

  22. No. by Bartles · · Score: 1

    Just stop.

  23. Re:Useless read the book... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  24. Easy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about from their extremely loud noise? They can be identified for miles using their unique noise.

  25. Re:Slashvertisement/Testimonial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's so bad that I'm afraid to approach a girl because she'd scream rape. I'm even afraid to be raped by a girl, because she might change her mind and scream rape. I'm afraid to run away when I see one coming because she'd scream I was fleeing rape.

    It's all the fault of the Patriarchy! I'd kill myself but the SJWs would just claim it was because I was guilty of wanting to rape.

  26. DJI needs to go away by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    They have market dominance but they also kowtow to government paranoia. They force firmware updates that bork your copter even if you are legally allowed to do stuff they don't want you to.