Microsoft Is Laying off 'Thousands' of Staff in a Major Global Sales Reorganization (techcrunch.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Microsoft is poised to layoff thousands of employees worldwide in a move to reorganize its salesforce. A source with knowledge of the planned downsizing told TechCrunch that the U.S. firm would lay off "thousands" of staff across the world. The restructuring is set to include an organizational merger that involves its enterprise customer unit and one or more of its SME-focused divisions. The changes are set to be announced this coming week, we understand. Microsoft declined to comment. Earlier this weekend, the Puget Sound Business Journal, Bloomberg and The Seattle Times all reported 'major' layoffs related to a move to increase the emphasis on cloud services within Microsoft's sales teams worldwide. Bloomberg said the redundancies would be "some of the most significant in the sales force in years."

Comments

QA

[thegreatbob]

Guessing they're sacking the rest of their QA staff, since Windows 10 is clearly coming along so nicely. /snark

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 does not use an internal QA staff. It uses Tata Consultancy Group in Bangalore. It's a QA contracting firm that handles firmware and software QA for much of the Fortune 500.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what you're going on about. I think Win 10 is a great OS. Stable, secure, boots up quick, and most importantly it runs the software I need. Sure, OSX does all that too, but then I'd have to pay twice as much for half the performance because of the Apple hardware.

Re:QA

[knope]

lmfao

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

Sure, OSX does all that too, but then I'd have to pay twice as much for half the performance because of the Apple hardware.

I don't know what you're going on about. On a like for like comparison as much as possible, Apple laptops cost about the same or even less than their competition, over the past 8 years when I've bought laptops. Now, you can rightfully argue that the laptop you are happy with costs less than Apple, but if you're needing Apple hardware specs or better, you're not looking any cheaper as far as laptops go. I wish I could say the same about their desktops, hopefully they'll get it right with the desktop (mac pro and hopefully mini) revamp they've announced.

Re:QA

[Hognoxious]

Guessing they're sacking the rest of their QA staff

Come on. Surely they won't get rid of both of them.

Re:QA

[gweihir]

Well, the one thing I do that I currently cannot really do on Linux or virtualized Windows is gaming. I hope that VM Vulcan-passthrough will work reasonably before Win7 goes out of maintenance. If not, I will go for one gaming PC with nothing else on it, no email, no browsing (except game-related) and a Linux box for everything else. I already do something similar with customer laptops, just need to get a 4-way KVM switch and that is it.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, what? Asus, MSI and a number of OEMs are producing laptop specs that FAR outpace MACs at every single price point Apple operates in. NO ONE buys Apple laptops for top of the line or even price competitive specs. It *may* have been arguable they were in the ball park years ago, but that's certainly not true today. Their desktop offerings are in even worse shape, but you admittedly acknowledged this shortcoming, so fair enough.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

They still have some QA left. The guys working for me all work for vendors and most make only $12 per hour. You can imagine how the vendor can't find the best people.

Another problem is the build team. They've been devastated with cuts to the number of employees and have drastically cut pay. That team is limited to forty hours a week, but required to cover 24/7. Most of them are working sixty+ hour weeks, but only getting paid for forty. Our tools are terrible, and we don't have the people to fix them. Also, we recently missed a couple of Insider releases, so it sounds like our CEO wants to cut the team further in order to punish us (but that's just a rumor).

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

You're retarded. Apple laptops are significantly more expensive than similarly speced Wintel laptops. At least you got right re Apple desktops. Moron.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

That is such bullshit. Apple's laptops are consistently overpriced "like for like" compared to the closest matching PC laptop hardware available. PC laptops also have the distinct advantage of not being designed to be unrepairable and non-upgradable. In the vast majority of higher-end PC laptops the RAM and PCIe SSD can be upgraded by the end user. In many there is an option to have both a PCIe SSD and a storage hard drive installed. Good luck desoldering your BGA memory chips and SSD from your overpriced Macbook Pro. If you don't buy the obnoxiously expensive spec upgrades at check-out, your computer is obsolete the minute you need more RAM or internal storage and the only solution is to buy a whole new Apple computer.

Oh, and let me know when the 15" MBP with the Core i7 doesn't cost $2399. This Asus UX501VW laptop with a Core i7-6700HQ, 4K IPS touchscreen, 512GB PCIe SSD, 16GB DDR4 RAM, is $1079 and has VASTLY better specs than the $2399 MBP in practically all categories. Also, more expensive comparable PC laptops that are still priced lower than the 15" MBP only get better and make the (still using outdated DDR3 for some reason...) MBP look like a joke.

But please, feel free to find another way to support your baseless assertion that "on a like for like comparison as much as possible, Apple laptops cost about the same or even less than their competition." I just did a like-for-like comparison and a 15" Apple laptop you could buy right now gives you drastically lower specs for more than double the price than a PC laptop you also buy right now.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

MacBook Pro with Core i7 16GB mem 512Gb ssd = $2,800. There are MANY wintel options with identical specs going for $1,000 LESS. I want some of what you're smoking.

Re: QA

[Anonymous Coward]

He said that with so much passion. At least that's what I want to believe.

Re:QA

[__aaclcg7560]

After all the testing got done with Windows 10, the QA testers got laid off and rehired as customer support representatives in the Bangalore call center.

Re:QA

[Tough Love]

the one thing I do that I currently cannot really do on Linux or virtualized Windows is gaming.

1) We must live on different planets, because on the planet I live on, Linux has more games than I can possibly make time to play, and they work great. For example, Doom is super sweet. Dota2 works great. Zillions of great indy games from Humble. Zillions of games from Steam. Most Windows titles work fine on Wine these days. Vulkan is the icing on the cake... performance out the proverbial yinyang.

2) Windows virtualization on Linux is, roughly speaking, perfect, including GPU virtualization. If you're too lazy to configure Wine then use VMware.

3) Nice troll.

Re:QA

[FlyHelicopters]

Call me when Ghost Recon Wildlands plays on Linux...

Re:QA

[Tough Love]

I don't care about your gaming faves, I care about mine. Sorry.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not? They're sure to have Win10 at home at home anyway so they can join the rest of us at doing the actual QA and beta testing each time a new release is launched and shitloads of people get their box bricked.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have your phone number.

Re:QA

[thegreatbob]

At the office where I work, we have about 20 of them now. Many of them have been factory-reset or reinstalled, and no two of them exhibit the same sorts of quirks, and even machines from the same vendors (which were initially consistent) exhibit random, often broken configurations. Broken start menus all over the place, randomly forgotten settings. I will say though, I haven't actually observed it crashing for anything other than a hardware failure. So I'll accept "stable" if it can mean "sitting at a not-responding instance of explorer for minutes at a time". Boots up quick? I had 8.1 ready to log in (on a C2D ~2GHz laptop, spinning rust disk) in about 5 seconds after POST (which was ~3 seconds). Haven't managed to get 10 there yet (best I think I've done on spinning rust is ~15-20 seconds including POST). It's just WAAAY too busy whacking the disk back and forth, doing god-knows-what. It could've been a very good OS if they'd, ya know, had a few more hands to help polish it.

Re:QA

[thegreatbob]

My apologies, understand that my snark exists here to keep eyes on the problem in hopes they'll do something positive about it.

Re:QA

[thegreatbob]

This is unfortunate but informative (would mod+ if i wasn't the OP snark-ass); keeping it in-house might have done them some good by tightening feedback loops. I also wonder how much gets lost in communication with people whose native language is not English (I imagine it's nowhere near as bad as the snarksters would make it out to be, but it can't be 0%).

Re:QA

[thegreatbob]

I about lost it, thanks xD

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

And you're not the original parent for your own comment, dumbshit, so right back at ya, Sparky. Additionally, top fucking keks @ configuring Wine in 2017.

Re:QA

[FlyHelicopters]

No, but you can't claim that Linux is just as good as Windows then, now can you?

What games play only on Linux and not Windows? There might be a few, but the balance is solidly on the side of Windows.

I first used Linux in the 90's, it has improved by leaps and bounds since then, but it is not going to take over the desktop, and the reasons are not technical in nature...

Re:QA

[BronsCon]

but if you're needing Apple hardware specs or better

then you go Apple, unless you need better, in which case you can't go Apple.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

You could always, you know, discover the great outdoors.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

Doom is super sweet

I would hope Doom (1993) is super sweet by now, after being out for 24 years. Perhaps you meant Doom (2016)? TBH, My complaint is not directed at you. It's directed at game companies that release the same game with the same name with no way to distinguish between the two. I do appreciate the fact that iD released it software so that people could keep it compatible with the current version of Linux/Unix/BeOS/AtheOS/what-have-you

Dota2

Isn't that a Starcraft mod? (yes, just kidding)

Vulkan is the icing on the cake

Vulkan is not yet here. When it is here and games are starting to use it, then I'll get excited about it. As for other technologies I'm excited about:

• MXM - upgradable graphics cards for laptops
• Project Farenheit - Cross platform OpenGL 1.3 and Direct3D 7.0 API, designed by SGI & Microsoft
• A working Glide emulator for DOSbox. Oh wait! there is one!one! (Some assembly required)
• Any Android device that will get updates for more than 2 years from design (not general availability)

2) Windows virtualization on Linux is, roughly speaking, perfect, including GPU virtualization. If you're too lazy to configure Wine then use VMware.

GPU virtualization is perfect? What? Last time I checked, the emulators were using a virtualized S3 Trident II chipset for 2D video (rebadged VMware SVGA), and the equivalent S3 Virge chipset for 3D, which from what I recall was pretty gnarly when it came to 3D performance. I understand that Hyper-V has RemoteFX, and that will allow you to run your VM with graphical acceleration. I've heard VirtualBox - with the non-free pack - will convert the D3D calls to OGL in Linux, but I have not seen it myself (It is Windows 7+ anyway). As for XEN and KVM, they allow PCI pass through if you have dual video cards, other than that, you need to use their WDDM driver and Windows 8.1+. Point for me.

Zillions of games from Steam.

Err, yes, there are some good indie games (Stardew Valley, Terraria, Don't Starve, VVVVV, FTL, Tabletop Simulator), and even commercial games (Neverwinter Nights, Xcom (2014), Mad Max). But there's some absolute crap out there, like Woodcutter Simulator 2014, Lumberjack Simulator 2016, Car Mechanic 2015, and a multitude of NSFW visual novels - which Steam has decided I must inexplicably love. I was allowed to skip each item in the last three discovery queues, because every single one had an age-gate or 'this item has been reported' flag. That's 36 non-family/cow-orker friendly items. They should have a Steam client for regular games, and a Steamy client for less safe games. I know that's not possible, so at least I can prevent that in the future by blocking tags from showing.

As for non-steam/totally free games, you have OpenXcom/X-Pirates, FreeCiv, Battle for Wesnoth, and Frozen Bubble which are great non-commercial games. So yeah, you'll win that point. I'll give you two - there's enough good Linux games to waste two lifetimes in.

Thanks for the discussion. Please come back later so that you can school me again.

Re:QA

[Zontar The Mindless]

I don't claim that Linux is as good as Windows. I claim that Linux is better.

Re:QA

[goose-incarnated]

the one thing I do that I currently cannot really do on Linux or virtualized Windows is gaming.

1) We must live on different planets, because on the planet I live on, Linux has more games than I can possibly make time to play, and they work great.

I don't care about your gaming faves, I care about mine. Sorry.

Re: QA

[dougdonovan]

the investors like their toys. the staff are a dime a dozen whether they are from india or wherever.

Re:QA

[vux984]

" On a like for like comparison as much as possible, Apple laptops cost about the same or even less than their competition"

Only if you start with the apple laptop as the baseline, and then customize the PC to match.

This is a bogus approach.

It frames the comparison relative to what apple packaged as opposed to what I want to buy.

Whenever I shop Apple its also an exercise in irritation, I don't want the fastest CPU but I'm forced to pay for it to get the other stuff I want. With a PC I can shop for what i actually want. With Apple to get what I want I HAVE to buy a bunch of things I am not the slightest bit interested in. If I want the big SSD and an i3 or i5 I can buy that. That represents a price savings.

And that's without even going into the frustration with ports right now. I want full size hdmi, ethernet, and both usb A and C ports. Apple isn't even at the table right now, doesn't matter what I buy I'd have to work around what Apple offers instead of apple offering what I want to buy.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

I bought my last laptop a year and a half ago, and it was true then. So I just looked, it appears that Dell's XPS 15" 4K system w/ 1 year premium support comes in at $2188 vs a similarly configured base 15" MBP at $2299 now. (I only bothered with Dell as it was the first thing that looked close spec wise and the pricing hadn't changed all that much from There's a few differences, of course, the 4K touchscreen vs a 2K non touch screen, but the 4K system with any version of windows still has scaling problems that don't exist for OSX, so I'm not sure that a 4K (or even 2K if they offered it) W10 system really gains you much.

While Dell does appear to have finally leapfrogged the screen resolution of a MBP, unfortunately neither the underlying OS nor the supposedly better GPU can do it justice. Battery life, well, it's still a Dell, i.e., terrible at less than half the battery life of an MBP, which only lugging an extra couple of pounds in the form of external battery packs will address. Then there's the trackpad, which is still not a touchpad.

All those substandard things really add up when you're looking at a system for working on, as I do, and I may need to run for 7+ hours on battery, while traveling. Nothing so counterproductive and interrupting as being in a multi-hour design and presentation session where the note taking Dell/HP/Lenova users all have to interrupt between 2 and 4 hours to plug in their laptops and share outlets while you're still running on battery power running videos, slideshows, and a live demo.

Tell me what's worth ~$120 there? I haven't even added the software packages you need to be as effective and at least pretend to be safe on windows as you can be out of the box on OSX, because that's highly dependent on your needs and environment and may require at least some similar expenditures on OSX based systems.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

Dell XPS 15 with 4K screen, 16GB ram, 512 SSD (which will be slower than the included Apple SSD, but I'll trade that for the 4K resolution).

Apple 15" MBP no touch pad, upgraded to 512 SSD and the mid-level CPU (100MHz slower peak, but 1 step up would put it several hundred higher)

Dell: $2188

Apple: $2299

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

You cherry picked "a" Dell to make your case. There are full desktop replacement laptops from Asus and MSI that are better in nearly every category at far lower price points. Now you're going on about battery life and OS scaling - which is a far cry from a spec to spec comparison. I'm not knocking Apple for their build quality and attention to detail. On that front, they're phenomenal devices. But there is NO case to be made for their being cost effective on spec count with their PC counterparts. Zero. None. At all. Knock that shit off. What crack are you smoking where you honestly believe there's a $120 delta here when you expand past some overpriced Dell you found?

Here, I'll even pick a non-boutique Asus from Best Buy, much less one of the more pimped out gaming ROG systems.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-asus-zenbook-pro-ux501-15-6-4k-ultra-hd-touch-screen-laptop-intel-core-i7-16gb-memory-512gb-solid-state-drive-silver/4816000.p?skuId=4816000

I'll even throw in a reivew:

https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/asus-zenbook-pro-ux501-v

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

And for gaming, it isn't. Full stop. Setting up pass-through VM is still running Windows as your platform - you're simply adding an abstraction layer. I love Linux, but it's ok to admit that there are things that Windows currently does better - either via technology (DirectX, here's hoping for more Vulcan adoption) or marketshare. Either way, it's the tool for the job. It's an OS, not a religion.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

Oh, and let me know when the 15" MBP with the Core i7 doesn't cost $2399.

Apple 15" MBP no touch pad, upgraded to 512 SSD and the mid-level CPU (100MHz slower peak, but 1 step up would put it several hundred higher)

$2299 - already upgraded

This Asus UX501VW laptop with a Core i7-6700HQ, 4K IPS touchscreen, 512GB PCIe SSD, 16GB DDR4 RAM, is $1079 and has VASTLY better specs than the $2399 MBP in practically all categories.

• Weight - +10%
• CPU Performance -11%
• Battery -20% at best
• Disk performance - didn't bother confirming but I'll bet it is significantly slower.

Also, more expensive comparable PC laptops that are still priced lower than the 15" MBP only get better and make the (still using outdated DDR3 for some reason...) MBP look like a joke.

I checked the MSI series out when I purchased my last one a little over a year ago - they weren't ready for prime time then, and I'll bet that still holds true today. You will be making tradeoffs with those laptops, either in weight, CPU speed, disk speed and always battery life over a comparable Apple laptop. BTW, one requirement I have is to run UNIX under the covers. I'm 100% fine running Linux or BSD on a laptop, provided they're 1) supported and 2) usable. Battery life is also important to me.

But please, feel free to find another way to support your baseless assertion that "on a like for like comparison as much as possible, Apple laptops cost about the same or even less than their competition." I just did a like-for-like comparison and a 15" Apple laptop you could buy right now gives you drastically lower specs for more than double the price than a PC laptop you also buy right now.

It's not baseless.

Every single laptop you referenced offers significantly diminished battery life, and all use at least some slower components that matter, namely SSDs and CPUs. DDR4 doesn't help you for squat if the CPU is 10% slower to begin with, and if the CPU is as fast or faster, then disk I/O becomes an issue, at least for my workloads. But hey, you lug that heavy half-life laptop along and enjoy your "savings". You'll be spending it on that extra software you'll need that I don't. ;)

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

You cherry picked "a" Dell to make your case.

I picked the system that came closest to meeting my needs a little over a year ago. No cherry picking at all. The MSI rigs didn't cut it then, so I didn't review them again.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

Actually, I'd like to see a "better" overall laptop than Apple's pre touch-bar. At least as of last year, it was all trade-offs.

Re:QA

[drinkypoo]

Windows virtualization on Linux is, roughly speaking, perfect, including GPU virtualization. If you're too lazy to configure Wine then use VMware.

Horse shit. Emulation of older versions of DirectX is pretty good, but there's still lots of games which are unplayable in either vmware or wine, to say nothing of other software packages. And wine is the poster child for regressions, so you wind up having to maintain umpty-ump wine versions.

I have a Linux box and a Windows box, and I even have linux on a small M.2 SSD in my Windows box for those times when I need it to save my bacon. I boot it up in vmware occasionally so that I can update it. I think Linux is pretty fantastic. But Windows compatibility continues to be a sore spot.

Re:QA

[BronsCon]

In the pursuit of thin and light, everything is trade-offs. To keep up battery life, they have to use slower CPUs and GPUs, sub-4k displays, and LPDDR (that last one I don't really have a problem with, except that it limits the amount of RAM as well), or they have to make it thicker and heavier, which, well... pursuit of thin and light...

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

But we're not arguing if you picked the right system for you based on your needs. That's clearly subjective. What everyone else in this thread has issue with is the rest of your statement, which was utter nonsense and objectively wrong. You overpaid for the hardware you received, but unlike the Apple haters, I can totally understand why you might as there many other factors involved in purchasing an Apple product that offer value beyond the price of the individual components.

Just simply say, "Hey, wow, looks I was incorrect with regards to Apple's pricing compared to equivalent specs from its competitors' laptop hardware offerings." It's okay to be wrong - even on in the internet. Doubling down on it is what makes you a twat.

Re: QA

[Anonymous Coward]

Unlike the Apple brqnded machines, every other vendor advanced in the last year. Plus you chose a massively more expensive and superior display, then ignored the superiority of it. Third parties offered touchscreen upgrade replacements on Macs awhile ago. They charged about a grand.
GrapeApe troll is obvious.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

It's $1000 LESS than your MacBook and nearly matches specs - that's his entire point and you're clearly missing it. For $2299 you can buy a boutique gaming laptop with individual specs that demolish the MacBook in every category, including Display, with the possible exception of battery life. And the reason why is because the MacBook is running underpowered hardware from the get-go, and for the air especially, it does so by throttling down liberally.

That doesn't mean you didn't get your money's worth if it meets your needs. It does NOT however, outclass laptops spec for spec. Period. Quit moving the goalposts.

Re: QA

[Anonymous Coward]

Years ago: But the dell doesn't have blue tooth 4.0, it's stuck on v3. Therefore the dell doesn't count.
Today: GrapeApeshit "4k touchscreen vs 2k not, isn't worth more"

Obvious troll is troll.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

Then you don't need what Apple's selling, and that's fine. I do need near top CPU performance and disk performance, the 2 biggest things negatively impacting my work. So for me, topping Apple's offerings pre touchbar wasn't worthwhile, especially since I wanted a UNIX based OS.

Re:QA

[gweihir]

As I have tried this from time to time for the last 10 years or so, I can only call you utterly clueless.

Re:QA

[vux984]

Then you don't need what Apple's selling, and that's fine.

No, it's not fine. Its irritating.

I do need [..]

I hope, for your sake, for next years model apple doesn't decide what you need isn't important.

My current 2015 mbp is tolerable. The missing ethernet is annoying. The new ones... are a joke. More stuff I need stripped out (function keys, ports...) replaced with stuff I don't need like "touchbar and apple pay".

Re:QA

[jon3k]

It also has a worse display, worse keyboard, worse trackpad and worse battery life than the Mac.

http://www.pcworld.com/article...

Conclusion On paper, the Zenbook Pro is an incredible deal. It features some extremely high-end parts, yet is amazingly affordable compared to its competitors. After spending time with it, however, it becomes clear why it's less expensive, particularly when compared to the Dell XPS 15 with the exact same specs. The Zenbook Pro'ss performance is slightly weaker, and it has subpar speakers and little oddities like uneven keyboard backlighting and that slap-dash Thunderbolt sticker.

If all you care about is GPU, RAM, CPU and HDD then do not buy a Mac. If you're willing to put up with awful keyboards and trackpads and substandard displays to save some money, there are better options. Honestly, I'm not being sarcastic.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. An Alienware laptop shits all over even the highest end Macbook Pro and it cost the same

Macbook Pro
7th generation Intel Core i7 3.1GHz
16GB 2133MHz DDR3
AMD Radeon Pro 560 4GB GDDR5
15.4" 2880x1800 display
1TB SSD
As configured: $3399

Alienware 17
7th generation Intel Core i7 4.4GHz
32GB 2400MHz DDR4
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 8GB GDDR5X
17.3" 3840x2160 w/eye-tracking
1TB SSD + 1TB 7200 RPM HDD
As configured: $3399

So the Alienware has a faster CPU, double the RAM with newer DDR4 technology, an infinitely more powerful GPU, a bigger and much higher resolution display, the same size SSD PLUS a 1TB HDD for storage.

Re:QA

[lsatenstein]

Guessing they're sacking the rest of their QA staff, since Windows 10 is clearly coming along so nicely. /snark

I would say that the Samsung, and other tablet makers that use Android, etc, have eaten into MS sales and MS client use. Today, how may people actually write letters or do long documents?

I use wps.com with Linux (MS Clone that is just great). I also use LibreOffice, which generally comes with some Linux distributions.
So, when desktop sales are down, when 80+% of servers are Linux based, a company can't keep staff that only works 4 hours per day.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

To keep up battery life, they have to use slower CPUs and GPUs, sub-4k displays, and LPDDR (that last one I don't really have a problem with, except that it limits the amount of RAM as well)

Well, learned something new there - LPDDR is why we do not yet have more than 16GB of RAM on MBPs. Should JEDEC ever get around to extending or creating a new standard that supports 24/32GB, it'd be nice. And since LPDDR seems to be a significant contributor to the longer battery life (note all the other laptops with standard replaceable RAM having 50% or less battery life) I'd say that's a trade-off I'm willing to live with. As for GPUs, Apple has seriously tweaked the discrete vs integrated GPU usage so well that I don't see that as being a major issue for battery life. Also, those 4K laptops all use pretty much equivalent discrete GPUs to the one in my MBP, but having a 4K vs 2K 15" screen doesn't really bother me that much. I'd rather have a nice 30-40" 4K external monitor so I can actually use that increased resolution.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

Wrong. An Alienware laptop shits all over even the highest end Macbook Pro and it cost the same

...

So the Alienware has a faster CPU

Wrong - Alienware has the 7820HQ, the MBP has the 7920 HQ. You'd have to step down to a 7820HQ.

double the RAM with newer DDR4 technology

It's DDR4 vs LPDDR3. Guess what that DDR4 does to battery life? And then double that effect in this case.

an infinitely more powerful GPU, a bigger and much higher resolution display

Yep, sucking down that battery life, and wow - double the weight! I guess I can stop going to the gym! And can you actually see the difference in that higher resolution? At least on the MBP, all apps scale seamlessly, so everything looks right on a 2K vs 4K vs 5K screen. I know Windows can't, yet. I'll give you the extra roughly 8 sq in in screen real estate, that is definitely better except when it's not, like on an airplane.

What you're comparing is a semi-portable desktop vs a laptop. I had an Alienware laptop. Couldn't get rid of it soon enough. High weight, crap battery life, and complimentary sterilization aren't things that appeal to me.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

Just simply say, "Hey, wow, looks I was incorrect with regards to Apple's pricing compared to equivalent specs from its competitors' laptop hardware offerings."

As countered throughout this thread's offered comparisons there's just not that major of a difference with equivalent hardware. You get differences if you chop 40% of the performance by selecting a much lesser or older CPU, less ram, or cheaper and much slower SSDs. That wasn't the argument - the argument was that like for like, or as close as you can get, Apple hardware is quite competitive. They just don't offer the range of budget options others do, but that's not what we're comparing here. Budget options will always win on price, they'll get clobbered in performance, but that's like complaining that your 1.6L Kia should accelerate like a Ferrari, much less more common high end vehicles. Which brings us back to comparing like with like.

It's okay to be wrong - even on in the internet. Doubling down on it is what makes you a twat.

I don't need to double down. Show me an equivalent system that's significantly cheaper, and I'll agree. The Dell is the closest by far, given the other options in the thread, and it is cheaper by a couple of hundred even though it falls short in a couple of areas and exceeds in 1. The Alienware system was the last one I just compared, and that one even didn't wind up being a slam dunk for an outright better performer since the CPU is 1 step down from the best available in the MBP, weighs twice as much and, per previous experience given the rest of the hardware specs, probably has less than 1/6th the battery life. I didn't bother double checking that.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

It's $1000 LESS than your MacBook and nearly matches specs...

It didn't come close.

It does NOT however, outclass laptops spec for spec. Period. Quit moving the goalposts.

Actually, it appears it does except for gaming laptops. That is not a reason anyone ever buys a mac today. But, you keep on trying to move the goalposts. Since the top end MBP has a faster CPU than Alienware's top end gaming rig, I'd say CPUs are at least on par with anything else out there today. Memory is limited, but that's directly due to battery life. It is a laptop, and that's one thing I've always needed in a laptop - longer battery life. SSDs in macs are absolutely top end. Laptops not running NVMe SSDs are in the buggy whip group.

The specs to match are in no particular order (and you're free to disagree, which may mean that this particular set of Apple hardware doesn't match your needs, don't buy it):

• CPU performance
• Battery life
• disk performance
• screen resolution min 2k as less is noticeable.

Memory should be mentioned only as requiring a min of 16GB. Why not more? Because I've yet to run into swapping as a problem with 16GB. It is quite possible that windows requires more than 16GB, but if running windows is a requirement for you, then Apple is obviously not your first vendor of choice.

Re: QA

[Gr8Apes]

Actually - I chose the the only screen with reasonable resolution. If Dell would sell a 2K screen, I would have chosen that. The base 1080 screen is just... unusable.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

Then buy the non touchbar version. I fully concur I have no desire to get a touchbar version. I also need function keys and the ESC key is an especially fond key for me. I touch-type, a touchbar isn't going to lend itself well to what I need. So I do hope they continue offering a non-touchbar version. If they don't, I'll likely hang onto the last model that does offer normal keys and then start looking for an alternative 5 years down the road. My shortest lifespan of a mac laptop has been 5 years, I still have a 2006 MBP running and in daily use, although it's about to be replaced, not because it's broken, but because as of this year it no longer is supported by the main software used on it. Sad really, but understandable given the technical limitations of the hardware in the machine.

For ethernet, I got the T-bolt->ethernet adapter. Is it a hassle? Well, certainly more than not needing one but nothing notable. Does it work? Haven't had an issue with it in the several years I've had it, and I wish I hadn't bought the second one I keep in my bag just in case because I've never needed it. At least I got them cheap, about $15 each.

Re:QA

[vux984]

"Then buy the non touchbar version."

Sure... unless they discontinue it. Which is highly likely.

"My shortest lifespan of a mac laptop has been 5 years, I still have a 2006 MBP running and in daily use"

My old macbook pro is also still in daily use (2010ish)... but a big part of its longevity is is because I was able to add ram and replace the original 5400rpm drive with an SSD. That's a big part of the longevity proposition, and apple's newer stuff doesn't have that. If the new units are long lived its going to be in spite of apple not thanks to them.

And in general all computers are lasting a long time now. My sisters laptop, is from 2009 and its perfectly fine, and it's a dell. My HTPC tower is running Windows 1 -- we play all kinds of steam stuff on it and it runs beautifully... xcom 2 chugs a bit though. It's running 4GB RAM and a Q6600 cpu from 2007. The video card is a few years newer... GTX660. The days where a PC was in the bin after 3 years and a mac was still going strong are LONG gone. The average PC at work is 5-7 years old now, and runs fine with the work load. (Windows 7, Office 2016, POS software, industry specific stuff).

"For ethernet, I got the T-bolt->ethernet adapter."

Yeah, me too. Its a hassle to remember, and there have been multiple occasions where i didn't have it with me when it would have been handy. I'd have paid more for a model that was thicker, with more battery life, and a built-in port if one existed.

"Does it work?"

Its also kind of irritating that I can't configure ethernet when its not plugged in. But yeah, its not horrifically defective. Its just a hassle to carry the dongle everywhere. I have one in my bag too, but I've occasionally left it plugged into the last cable i used somewhere. Wifi is pretty ubiquitous, but its not universal, and wired is often **much** higher speed. Plus i program routers / switches / APs ... I realize the latter is a bit niche (albeit precisely a niche where a someone would want a pro laptop)... but "moving large files frequently" is a pretty "pro" requirement.

Mine at least has full size hdmi... which i have used in hotels, board rooms, executive lounges, private offices... the new ones dropped that too. So that would be another dongle to carry around. And no USB A... seriously apple?? WTF. Those aren't niche requirements. Maybe in 2025 or 2030 they will be like needing analog VGA, but I have to use my laptop in 2017 and in 2017 those aren't niche requirements.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

The CPU in the Alienware is factory overclocked to 4.4GHz though. It is faster.

It's DDR4 vs LPDDR3. Guess what that DDR4 does to battery life? And then double that effect in this case.

Thanks for pointing that out. LPDDR3 is even slower than DDR3 making it just that much worse than DDR4. Oh and it's DOUBLE the DDR4.

Yep, sucking down that battery life, and wow - double the weight! I guess I can stop going to the gym! And can you actually see the difference in that higher resolution? At least on the MBP, all apps scale seamlessly, so everything looks right on a 2K vs 4K vs 5K screen. I know Windows can't, yet. I'll give you the extra roughly 8 sq in in screen real estate, that is definitely better except when it's not, like on an airplane.

Most people don't carry their laptops everywhere with them. They tend to go in the car to and from home and work. For anything else we use our smartphones and tablets. My laptop is supposed to be a replacement for a full desktop PC, not some high price, low spec Macbook shit.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

Sure... unless they discontinue it [non touchbar version]. Which is highly likely.

They hopefully learned a lesson with the mac pro. I'm willing to bet a larger proportion of the user base than Apple thinks is really attached to those keys.

My old macbook pro is also still in daily use (2010ish)... but a big part of its longevity is is because I was able to add ram and replace the original 5400rpm drive with an SSD. That's a big part of the longevity proposition, and apple's newer stuff doesn't have that. If the new units are long lived its going to be in spite of apple not thanks to them.

The newer stuff is already using hardware that is as fast and maxed out as possible. LPDDR3 is maxed out at 16GB, which is what the MBPs come with. Newer technology for bigger memory will require hardware support that will need a new logic board, at the least. I'm surprised Apple decided to solder the NVMe chips directly to the board. Hopefully that is a decision they'll reverse, or add a NVMe slot internally (ROFL - although Apple's mac pro admission shows there's a glimmer of hope when a bad decision is made).

And in general all computers are lasting a long time now. My sisters laptop, is from 2009 and its perfectly fine, and it's a dell.

She's lucky, given the lack of quality in Dell laptops. My IT guy at a previous job was seriously windows biased and had tons of Dells and quite a few Lenovos. One of the requirements I had joining was that I have a Mac. You'd think I'd asked for his first born. Within 2 years with a couple more guys coming on using macs like me, as Dells failed left and right and our work being primarily Unix based which also caused him lots of support issues on windows, but 0 on macs, he decided to try a mac. Within a week, he grudgingly admitted "it's not all bad". Within a month, he was positive enough about them to recommend we switch. Those Dells were circa 2008-2011, and the problems with them ranged across the board - memory going bad, a CPU burning up, hard disks crapping out, but the most common was batteries. Batteries lasted about 1.5 years. Yes, they're replaceable, but if you have to buy a new $100 battery at least twice in 4 years, that becomes an issue in this environment.

Wifi is pretty ubiquitous, but its not universal, and wired is often **much** higher speed.

Wireless is ALWAYS much slower, if you're not the sole device on the network.

Mine at least has full size hdmi... which i have used in hotels, board rooms, executive lounges, private offices... the new ones dropped that too. So that would be another dongle to carry around. And no USB A... seriously apple?? WTF. Those aren't niche requirements. Maybe in 2025 or 2030 they will be like needing analog VGA, but I have to use my laptop in 2017 and in 2017 those aren't niche requirements.

I agree, the USB-C only thing is a painful at this time because USB-A is ubiquitous. They could have left one.... HDMI I have never used. Everything I've needed to connect to is T-Bolt, DV, VGA or DVI.

Re:QA

[Gr8Apes]

The CPU in the Alienware is factory overclocked to 4.4GHz though. It is faster.

That would be quite a neat trick, considering the base is 2.9GHz for that CPU. Maybe they're advertising the max turbo mode? I don't know or care, really, because if they're really running that CPU at a base 4.4GHz, it'd a) be smoking hot b) be limited in life span, and c) be an indicator that the battery might last an hour. Also, I'd recommend an asbestos blanket for your lap.

Thanks for pointing that out. LPDDR3 is even slower than DDR3 making it just that much worse than DDR4. Oh and it's DOUBLE the DDR4.

And yet in performance benchmarks for things that matter - ie, real life work, LPDDR3 seems to have exactly 0 effect.

Most people don't carry their laptops everywhere with them. They tend to go in the car to and from home and work. For anything else we use our smartphones and tablets. My laptop is supposed to be a replacement for a full desktop PC, not some high price, low spec Macbook shit.

Then you are not the target audience for a MBP, so why are you commenting? The entire group of folks I deal with do take their laptops everywhere, and especially at work we move around with them. They are not desktops, but mobile work stations. The group of folks you're describing could just as well use a USB drive to transfer their work to and from their home desktop, saving themselves 9 pounds of carriage. If someone gave me an Alienware "laptop" I would sell it immediately and buy a real desktop or a replacement MBP, depending upon my needs. As for smartphones or tablets, yes, they're great to check email or do a 1 or 2 line reply, but absolutely horrible for more than that.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, seriously, what the FUCK are you talking about? You can't just hand-wave the raw specifications and throw up a bunch of criteria that are subjective, of dubious value, or that don't even support your Apple-worshipping stance.

Battery life? That's going to change based entirely on workload, and who buys a high-end i7 laptop to write letters to grandma in a coffee shop all day? No one, unless you're an Apple user with surplus money, it seems.

10% more weight? We're already talking about a device that weighs less than a single college textbook. If weight is such a massive issue to you then why aren't you buying an ultrabook form factor instead?

CPU performance? The Asus has an Intel Core i7-6700HQ. The 13" MBP with i7 upgrade is dual-core, so it is a total loser by comparison and the screen size means it's not apples-to-apples anyway. The 15" MBP does have higher-end i7 options but is more than double the price of the Asus, but a couple hundred more dollars and the even higher-end PC laptops than the example Asus more than make up that shortcoming...and are still way cheaper.

Disk performance! Ha, you think the Apple SSD is faster? They're both snazzy PCIe 3.0 x4 drives, you idiot!

You're an Apple fanboy. Their computers are not a good value on raw specifications. Stop making broad assertions about Apple supremacy and then doing the same super-specific requirements horseshit that HR job listing drones do when they want to hire from within. "It must run UNIX under the hood?" Fuck off. That's a personal preference. That doesn't make Apple computers superior in any way. Admit that you just like them "because reasons" and move along and sulk a little.

Re:QA

[Anonymous Coward]

The article linked doesn't say anything bad about the display other than "it's glossy and glossy means reflections." Oh, what a shock, a glossy panel is glossy and does glossy things. As for "worse keyboard, trackpad, battery life," that's also bunk. The battery life tests didn't include an Apple product and were real-world tests, not "up to X hours," so you're comparing very uneven workloads (idle vs. playing 4K video) and yet the one-sided deck-stacked results are somehow in favor of Apple. As for the keyboard: who gives a shit about "uneven backlighting?" Can your fingers find the correct keys at night or not? What else makes a keyboard "worse?" Oh, wait, they said the keyboard was quite comfortable and even pointed it out as a positive, so you're just lying. Trackpad...hmm, all they said is small in relative terms and takes more force/precision than the reviewer likes to push the underlying buttons and even then there are tap workarounds that made the button thing moot.

Just stop.

Re:QA

[Tough Love]

I don't care about your gaming faves, I care about mine. Sorry.

Ooh, looky here, a special snowflake with mod points was triggered.

Re:QA

[Tough Love]

No, but you can't claim that Linux is just as good as Windows then, now can you?

Oh wow, you got me! You're right. Linux is way better than Windows. Waaaaaaaaaaaay better. That's why it rules the world.

Re:QA

[Tough Love]

And for gaming, it isn't. Full stop.

Full idiot. Technically, Linux is better for games than Windows. Higher framerates, smoother update. Vulkan sealed the deal on that. You actually can run a stream and a game server at the same time without hitting oral/anal inversions like Windows gets. (Yes it's true son, check out the frequent reports of game lockups when streaming on Windows.)

There is exactly one thing that prevents some titles from getting onto Linux: illegal trustmaking activity by Microsoft. And that last bastion of Mordor is starting to crack. In the mean time, there are way more games including AAA games on Linux than I can possibly make time to play, and I don't give a fuck if your favorite game isn't there. Sorry. If you feel that strongly about it then run Windows, you deserve it.

Re:QA

[Tough Love]

...there's still lots of games which are unplayable in [either] vmware...

You're making that up.

Re:QA

[FlyHelicopters]

It doesn't rule the desktop and it never will...

Re:QA

[Tough Love]

It doesn't rule the desktop and it never will...

Oh yes it will. 1) Own the phone market 2) Own the cloud "office as a service" space 3) Cloud users adopt offline office apps running under Chrome and Firefox with V8 (compatible with cloud services and not giving a fuck about docx) 3) Microsoft shrinks and dies 4) Everybody parties and Russia can't hack

Re:QA

[FlyHelicopters]

I don't know where you get your delusions, laser brains...

Re:QA

[Tough Love]

Heh, you are a card, you are. Quit your day job, you will make it big as a comedian. As if it is not already a fact that Linux is by far the most installed and used operating system in the known universe.

Just like rats abandoning a sinking ship

[Anonymous Coward]

The greedy and needy people at the top have no real plan except cut costs at the bottom again!

Why do these senior people get seven figure salaries? They have no real plan except take, take, take.

Re:Just like rats abandoning a sinking ship

[gweihir]

Indeed. Get a huge bonus for selling the silverware and then get out with a golden parachute. They are a force of destruction, nothing else.

Windows is doing a good job selling itself

[Anonymous Coward]

After all, it's free!

For all my friends browsing at -1

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's another story you'll enjoy:

He grabs me by the hair and pulls me down onto my knees, he knocks me onto my back and pulls of my shorts.

"Touch yourself" he tells me.

I obey, as a good slave should.

"Back onto your knees slave!"

I wiggle my way upward, and he grabs my hands, tying them behind my back.

"You will do any and everything that I say, correct slave?"

"Yes Master." I pant.

He takes off his shirt and I feel the slow tingle start in between my legs, I start to feel warm and wet. I want so badly for him to use me.

My Master is a very attractive man. He's tall, with curly brown hair, and hazel eyes. He is also my husband and a soldier in the army. I'm average height, dark brown curly hair, blue eyes, and a pear body shape. My Master loves my big white ass. I can't wait till he finally fucks me analy. I want my Master to take from me all he desires. I want to please him.

He stares down at me, then spits in my face.

"You like when I spit on you slave?" He asks.

"Yes Master." I smile at him.

"Lets give that mouth something to do besides smile slave."

"Yes Master."

"You know what I want to do slave?"

"Anything you want Master."

"So true. Open your mouth."

I open my mouth wide, he takes off his pants and aims his long member at my mouth.

"Drink all of it." He commands and starts to gush his golden liquid into my ever eager mouth as I swallow every bit.

"Good slave." He cooes. "You never dissappoint, now lets try something new."

My Master moves closer to me and starts to sit down onto my face, his anus above my mouth. I know what I am suppossed to do. I begin with licking his precious hole, cleaning him, and tempting him to loosen up. I feel his anus pucker against my mouth and I open wide. I close my eyes and masturbate as my Master releases his waste into my mouth. My mouth fills before he is done and I chew and swallow, hurrying to catch his next load but it rolls into my eyes. I close my eyes tight and swallow my Masters glorious caviar, and open my mouth wide for the very large peice that had rolled into my eye. He puts gloves on and places the run away turd into my shit covered mouth.

"You are a nasty bitch slave, you know that?"

"Oh yes Master." I purr.

"Im going to beat you for dropping my precious gold."

I swallow the last of my delicous meal. Master tells me to roll onto my belly. I do as Im told as Master walks away to find a punishing device.

I lick my lips, trying to ingest as much of my masters present to me as I could manage. I look at him greedily, aknowledging that my master has not yet cleaned his backside, nor has he put pants back on.

"You want to eat my ass you nasty lil slave? I will let you." He comes close once again, pushes me back onto my back and sits his sexy tight ass on my face, I lick him clean, not missing a speck.

"Thank you Master."
"You are very welcome slave. Do you like being masters toilet?"

I grin and reply with "Of course Master."

He stands and walks towards the paddle he has set aside.

"Return to your belly slave. I intend to paddle you, then fuck your ass, hard."

I roll back over and raise my ass eagerly.

He hits me with the paddle, somewhat lightly at first but the more he hits my ass the harder he swings, and the greater the sting, but I don't complain. I want my ass to hurt. I want to remember what I was punished for evrey time I sit down and cringe at the sharp pain of sitting on my bruiced buttocks.

He spits on his dick and rams it into my ass with great force. I scream and moan in pain but stay silent.

"Do you like this slave?"

"Yes Master." I cry.

"Should I finish in your tight lil ass slave or should I try to get you pregnant?" I moan in delight at the thought of carrying my Masters baby. He understands without me saying what I want and pulls his hard penis out of my tight ass hole and into my wet wanting cunt.

He fucks me hard, pulling my hair, going in as deep as he can, hitting my cervix over and over again as hard as he can until finally he has had enough and fills my pussy with his wonderful seed.

Who lays off their Sales people?

[rsilvergun]

Something ain't right. Yeah, you fire folks from time to time. Maybe even whole teams. But mass layoffs in sales? And at a time when Chromebooks and Tablets are threatening market share?

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[Anonymous Coward]

The company top management forced the crappy Metro UI and insane spyware into Windows. And when sales drop, the blame is of course on salesmen. As a former Windows application software developer I can only wonder how fast the MS has managed to alienate its most loyal customers and developers. Only a five years ago the Windows was the easiest and most profitable platform to develop for, but not anymore.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[Anonymous Coward]

because sales people clearly produce something tangible lol

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[gweihir]

Indeed. I know of at least one large company (~50k employees) that will go all web-terminal before Win7 goes out of support. They looked at Win10 and decided that there was no way they would move to a platform with an ever-changing UI. Of course, all their internal stuff is already all web-apps, they just need to replace MS office with something web-based. But this is a good thing as the MS monopoly has done a huge disservice to the world.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[nukenerd]

Something ain't right..... mass layoffs in sales?

Yes, it's awful. "Microsoft", "salesforce" and "layoffs" in the same sentence! I never thought I'd see the day, you should see my tears. I'm starting a collection to support those poor guys until they can land a job in some Indian "Windows" support call centre..

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[JackieBrown]

The problem is a salesperson needs to do at least 2 things
1) Sale the product
2) Prove the sale would not have happened without them

And this does not even address the quotas and goals that companies set (then change if the goal is obtained.)

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[sydbarrett74]

they just need to replace MS office with something web-based

They could use something like rollApp, but there's the pesky problem of Outlook, which still lacks an open-source equivalent that duplicates most of its functionality. I would say Outlook is the very last strangle-hold Microsoft has on the corporate market. Every other one of its platforms (the rest of Office, SCCM, Server/Active Directory) contains more than adequate FOSS replacements.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[93 Escort Wagon]

... but there's the pesky problem of Outlook, which still lacks an open-source equivalent that duplicates most of its functionality. I would say Outlook is the very last strangle-hold Microsoft has on the corporate market.

What functionality is that, specifically? And I mean that as a serious question.

I don't see anything which Outlook does but other calendar and mail solutions do not - and I work with a lot of Outlook users. When we've talked about moving them off Outlook, there has been significant pushback... but it seems to be all about fear of change. They can't articulate anything Outlook does which other software does not also do.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[93 Escort Wagon]

because sales people clearly produce something tangible lol

You don't have to read many Slashdot comments before you realize that most tech-oriented people are going to suck when it comes to relating to customers. That's why you need sales people, who have a different skill set and - unlike the aforementioned tech folks - know how not to piss off most of the people they meet.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[Tough Love]

Something ain't right.

True. Microsoft is teh shrink. Rats jumping off. Couldn't happen to a more deserving gang of thugs.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[chuckugly]

Microsoft is all about the platform, always has been. The platform isn't just Windows now, is all.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[Anonymous Coward]

In that case I really must credit Microsoft's sales force for customer relations unlike any other company.

Re: Who lays off their Sales people?

[Anonymous Coward]

Users have the bad habit of treating Outlook like their own personal database. They store and sort their entire professional life in there. Every file, every correspondence, neatly sorted and filed away in a pst file FOREVER. I have literally had new employees hand me CDs with pst files stored on them and requested me to merge them into their exchange accounts.

The company I work for moved away from Outlook specifically because it was so easy for users to be titanic data hoarders. The really bad thing from with data hoarding like this is that all that shit is discoverable in a lawsuit. Having hundreds of employees storing gigs of info in random pst files and in their exchange accounts quickly turns into pure hell when you get hit with a discovery order. Trust me on this.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[thegreatbob]

Their web-based stuff available for office365 and what-not is (in my opinion) not particularly terrible. I somehow doubt they could sanely cram the full feature set into a browser without making a mess.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[Anonymous Coward]

they just need to replace MS office with something web-based

They could use something like rollApp, but there's the pesky problem of Outlook, which still lacks an open-source equivalent that duplicates most of its functionality. I would say Outlook is the very last strangle-hold Microsoft has on the corporate market. Every other one of its platforms (the rest of Office, SCCM, Server/Active Directory) contains more than adequate FOSS replacements.

I'll just leave the link to this SOGo application here. But, please don't go look at it. Please don't look at their Lightning calendaring extension for Thunderbird, or their compatibility with ActiveSync or MS Outlook. Definitely do not try their ZEG backend testing appliance. Corporate contracts are available for companies that like to give back to Open Source (or because contracts are mandated by the Board)

But if you have used it, and liked it, DON'T tell anyone else about it. It's a secret. I think there's another secret project out there called Zimbra, but I never got to it.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[jon3k]

How do you manage Global Address List and Distribution Lists using something other than Exchange? Serious question because that's the one I always get stuck on when I dream of ditching Exchange.

Re:Who lays off their Sales people?

[sydbarrett74]

Primarily Outlook's large ecosystem of add-ins. Lots of line-of-business apps use such add-ins (Adobe Acrobat, Swiftpage Act!, &c.).

Should have used apps!

[Anonymous Coward]

If LUDDITE Microsoft sold more apps like Appsoft's Appdows 10 S, then they would have millions of appy app appers instead of LUDDITE jobs!

Apps!

Re:Should have used apps!

[Anonymous Coward]

I prpose we star calin it aps, not apps. Aps is evn shortr.

Aps!

Re:Should have used apps!

[thegreatbob]

Just double the s instead of the p!

Ass!

Oh Yeah?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why can't Bill Gates get laid?

Because he's microsoft.

Re:Oh Yeah?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is the boss of M$ called Nadella? Because he's thick & brown.

Re:Oh Yeah?

[thegreatbob]

I've re-read this 3 times and only just now got it. Doesn't make it not a dated, tired joke.

Work for the evil empire - get shafted ...

[gweihir]

... as soon as they do not think they need you anymore. I find it really hard to feel any kind of compassion for those that will get hit.

In other news, Microsoft has salespeople

[Anonymous Coward]

Salespeople? Who knew?

MS: Tough time trying 2 sell another WinME?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Nobody likes or wants it or what you've done to it (especially telemetry you don't tell us all it sends).

* Having to knock off sales staff is telling my subject's dead-on right... what else do layoffs signal? Failure usually @ the cost of productive workers (just so top mgt. makes bonuses, right? Least productive group ONLY profiting is another signal of fail too!)

APK

P.S.=> You've clearly got another Windows ME here - wake up & smell the coffee (before it's too late)... apk

Typical new fiscal year reorg

[StreamingEagle]

Microsoft reorganizes some parts of the company every year at this time. July 1st is the start of their fiscal year.

Think Different

[Tablizer]

Hey Microsoft, instead of reorganizing your sales force, try stop sucking.

Re:Think Different

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey Microsoft, instead of reorganizing your sales force, try stop sucking.

Have you driven a Ford lately? The .NET ecosystem and Azure cloud definitely don't suck. If your head wasn't crammed so far up your backside you might have noticed that by now but group think is such a comfort isn't it?

Re:Think Different

[thegreatbob]

Responding indirectly to the AC that also posted... I'm on his side regarding .Net and Azure being quite alright.... but I'm stuck in a mindset where I cannot see them as anything but a desktop operating system company, and in this regard they definitely, unequivocally suck.

Re:Think Different

[Tablizer]

Their .NET tools are just a honey pot with a thousand ways to lock you in

My hobo index is up

[plopez]

My hobo index is a leading, and trailing, economic indicator. I live in a small city near the railyard. The number of transients hopping off of the train seems to be at a seasonally adjusted high. As most of these people are the last to be hired and the first to be laid off the indicator is showing a slowing economy. Couple it with the demise of HP, CA, and other legacy companies and I smell a trend.

Re:My hobo index is up

[Tablizer]

The end of decades often brings a recession. We are just about due.

Fake marketing, SAD!

[Anonymous Coward]

Good for getting sales, horrible for maintaining brand value.

Finally, year of the Linux Desktop!

[filesiteguy]

With MS removing staff, it will be time for teh Linux desktop!

(insert evil laugh here)

Seriously, this is kind of normal. My MS sales reps and my TAM are all mono-focused on the Cloud and what Azure and Azure Government can do for us to leverage computing (as well as ensure future subscriptions).

They don't even mention phones or mobile devices anymore. The focus is now "how can we move your 200TB of on prem storage into Azure and get your on a subscription model."

PS: Slashdot mods, sorry about the OT introduction. I promise to be more behaved in the future.

Re:Finally, year of the Linux Desktop!

[Anonymous Coward]

I now use NextCloud. It's a cloud service running on your own local server. Yes, that's basically decades old technology, and runs as reliably as you would expect, but does give have "cloud" in its name, but without any dependencies on third parties. "The Cloud" is basically everything that was before the cloud, but with a third party you have to pay for the privilege of being able to send data between computers.

"Layoff" is not a verb, dammit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn to spell.

Re: "Layoff" is not a verb, dammit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuckoff.

Routine makes it Right.

[Anonymous Coward]

Routine makes it Right.

License simplification

[jezwel]

Maybe they've finally realised that they can get more money from corps by simplifying their license types and standardising on software subscriptions. Windows, Office, CRM, Azure, CIS. What they need next is a cost effective way to hand back perpetual licences for some temporary discounts on their enterprise subscription products.

W00t!

[easyTree]

Start the layoffs with the unpaid beta testers/users !

Need to use saved funds to hire spyware programmer

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows doesn't spy on you enough. Need more programmers to send all screen draws back to Redmond.

Microsoft is reorganising...

[dddux]

to get more $ per person then they already have. It's a good thing. It means Microsoft is a bit more close to fucking off.