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Hanoi Plan To Ban Motorbikes By 2030 To Combat Pollution (bbc.com)

Hanoi -- a city of five million motorbikes -- is planning to ban the popular two-wheeled transport by 2030. From a report: The city council voted for the ban almost unanimously, hoping to unclog roads and reduce soaring levels of pollution. The council has also promised to increase public transport so that half the population are using it by 2030, instead of the current 12 percent. But some residents think it very unlikely the bikes will go for good. Council officials decided to put "immediate management measures" in place after a report found the number of motorbikes in Hanoi was set to grow at an "alarming" rate. Some studies suggest there are already as many as 2,500 motorbikes per kilometre. According to the non-governmental group GreenID, the city recorded 282 days of "excessive" levels of PM2.5, which is harmful to human health, last year.

9 of 236 comments (clear)

  1. It's not the bikes... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's the trucks and cars. Encourage motorcycles and scooters, they are much more environmentally friendly, you can pack 6 of them on the road compared to every car, and are extremely low cost so they promote upward mobility of most workers, since they can now commute a fair distance to jobs (not just stuck in their own little village or district).

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    1. Re:It's not the bikes... by Luthair · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd hazard that many of the bikes are using two stroke engines which are particularly dirty. Maybe the push should be to electric motorcycles?

    2. Re:It's not the bikes... by MrL0G1C · · Score: 5, Informative

      "they are much more environmentally friendly" With regards to CO2 they are a bit more friendly but due to emissions controls being lax for 2 wheelers they can be worse than cars, often a lot worse, Mythbusters covered it, pointing out that cars have had decades of ever tighter controls whilst motorbikes have had it easy.

      http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...

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    3. Re:It's not the bikes... by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

      Motorcycles and scooters often lack or have less emissions controls than cars and trucks. And in a place like Vietnam, I suspect many of them use two-stroke engines instead of four-stroke. Two-strokes generate more power per engine weight, but they mix incoming fuel and exhaust gases thus generating more pollution.

    4. Re:It's not the bikes... by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They are riding two stroke instead of the much cleaner four stroke and that is what is making all the pollution. If you have never owned a two stroke they smoke like crazy, picture a chainsaw motor on 2 wheels and you have an idea how a two stroke bike engine belches smoke.

      But yet again its a case of "we have to DO something!" instead of "we have to do something SMART" because the SMART thing to do would be to push four stroke bikes and hybrids NOT simply ban bikes, instead I'm sure this bill treats an electric bike no differently than a two stroke thus effectively banning the solution.

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  2. Re:The Motorbikes, really by Whatsisname · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cars aren't necessarily the largest polluters. CO2 production and production of other nasty substances aren't always related. Running a two-stroke leaf-blower for a half hour can easily exceed several days worth of NOx and CO emissions from a passenger car. If a lot of the motorbikes are two-stroke, replacing those may be the best bang for the buck.

  3. Re:The Motorbikes, really by blindseer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know this story is from India but I suspect that this is also true in many other parts of the world, like Hanoi.

    In India the primary means to cook food is by kerosene stoves. It seems this is even true in many large cities since electricity is either expensive and/or unreliable. People need to eat or they riot so the government subsidizes kerosene. The government wants to discourage use of motorcycles and auto-rickshaws, so they tax fuel for these highly. Do you see where this is going yet?

    People that want to run their vehicles on the cheap will mix the gasoline with kerosene and get something that kind of burns and runs the engine but blue smoke and soot is produced. This is highly illegal but very difficult to enforce. Now imagine millions of these things on the road, all producing this thick smoke.

    People that have the money to buy a car will want to keep it running, so they don't typically burn kerosene in them. It's also much easier to collect a fine or bribe from someone that actually has money than some poor auto-rickshaw driver that's making deliveries for pennies.

    I see a solution here but I'm sure it's not popular, tax gasoline like kerosene. I don't mean raise kerosene taxes to the level of gasoline, that will lead to riots. Tax gasoline like kerosene.

    I suspect that two-cycle engines can run on kerosene better than a four cycle engine. Lower taxes would lower costs. More money in the pockets of the public mean they can afford more cars and newer motorcycles. Cleaner air from lower gas taxes.

    Since this requires lowering taxes this means it's not going to happen.

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  4. They should look at what is happing in China first by ukoda · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They should see what is happening in China first. Many Chinese cities had a very high usage rate of electric scooters. Very practical transport for flat cities that provide lanes for them and a potential pollution free option. Interestingly there is a movement there away from scooters to cars. When the weather is ok the scooters are a more practical solution being cheaper and faster, but in the case of China the movement to using cars is a status thing, not about what is best but what impresses others more. As a result some cities that had free flowing traffic 5 years ago are now gridlocked much of the day.

    Translate that to the Hanoi situation and try and imaging 2500 cars per km! Of course Hanoi is not China and I suspect few people will be able to afford the cost step from a motorcycle to a car. Regardless it is a trend in the wrong direction. The better option would be to ban the new sales of 2 stroke motorcycles now then force the transition from petrol to electric over a period of time. The irony here is the bulk of commuters will likely switch from petrol to electric, simply because of the advantages, over the next few years. For example a few years ago in China I could buy an electric scooter for USD $400 (500W) or a 125cc motorcycle (5KW) for $1200. For the average commuter in a Chinese city it makes little difference. Now in China I have found you can buy more conventional electric motorcycle (1.2KW) for $1000. In my book that means for city commuters electric motorcycles are close to parity with petrol ones in cost and performance today.

    No need for a well intentioned but short sighted law change.

  5. They ARE 4 stroke! by WittyName · · Score: 4, Informative

    I lived there a year, and left due to traffic, and traffic noise. Pollution is bad, not not much worse than most other asian cities. The biggest problem for me is the slash and burn agriculture which puts a haze over the entire region.

    The bikes are almost exclusively 4 stroke, Honda Dream, Honda Wave, 100-110cc over 175 cc you get a special 200% tax, yes the big bikes then cost 3x as much! Some Suzikis and yamahas, but many parts are interchangable. There is the odd old Russian Minsk, and those are foul.. but those are mostly used in the mountains and by dumb-ass tourists.. Sometimes an old Honda Chaly mini-bike with a 50 cc but really, 99% 4 STROKE.

    Post after post after post, THEY ARE 4 STROKE!

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