Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Are We Living In the Golden Age of Bailing? (nytimes.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report that makes a case of us living in an era where bailing has become just too common: It's clear we're living in a golden age of bailing. All across America people are deciding on Monday that it would be really fantastic to go grab a drink with X on Thursday. But then when Thursday actually rolls around they realize it would actually be more fantastic to go home, flop on the bed and watch Carpool Karaoke videos. So they send the bailing text or email: "So sorry! I'm gonna have to flake on drinks tonight. Overwhelmed. My grandmother just got bubonic plague..." Bailing is one of the defining acts of the current moment because it stands at the nexus of so many larger trends: the ambiguity of modern social relationships, the fraying of commitments (paywalled), what my friend Hayley Darden calls the ethic of flexibility ushered in by smartphone apps -- not to mention the decline of civilization, the collapse of morality and the ruination of all we hold dear. [...] Technology makes it all so easy. You just pull out your phone and bailing on a rendezvous is as easy as canceling an Uber driver. There are different categories of bailing. There is canceling on friends. This seems to follow a bail curve pattern. People feel free to bail on close friends, because they will understand, and on distant friends, because they don't matter so much, but they are less inclined to bail on medium-tier or fragile friends. Then there is professional bailing. This tends to have a hierarchical structure. A high-status person will frequently bail on a lower-status colleague, but if an intern bails on a senior executive, it is a sign of serious disrespect. What do you folks think?
What do I think?
I think Slashdot is posting articles from David Brooks, one of the world's worst columnists, on Brooks being annoyed nobody wants to hang out with him any more.
That's what I think.
What next? Tom Friedman on how we'll find out if the next iPhone is a success in the next six months, and what his cabbie thinks about that?
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
But in this case, the answer is yes.
This is not news for nerds, stuff that matters.
People have always made tentative plans and when more important things in life come up, plans get changed.
Not everything is new just because you are doing it on/over/under/next to a computer.
Wat
It's not that I want to flop on the couch, it's that I have over-committed my resources.
Also, why do we need to make plans to do anything these days? Why can't we just grab drinks whenever. Or go for a hike when the moment strikes us. Want to go fishing Saturday? call me before 10pm the night before, I really don't need a lot of notice to prepare. But if you want to set up a big fishing expedition 2 weeks in advance, well a lot can happen then. I can't say for certain how I will even feel 2 weeks from now.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
WTF? Bailing doesn't mean not showing up. It means leaving. Flaking means not showing up. The example in TFS even includes the example "gonna have to flake", it's not "gonna have to bail". If you're at the event, and you get a phone call from your bra, then you gotta bail, right?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I think this post is terrible, I don't come here to read this type of worthless crap.
2017:
Having (time for) a social life of any kind
I'm too busy to have much of any of a social life, and almost everyone I know who I'd want to be social with is likewise busy all the time, too, so there isn't much of any scheduling of social time to start with. When something is scheduled, it happens.
To be quite honest it sounds to me more like the author of this is the one getting 'bailed' on all the time, and just hasn't figured out yet that it's just him and not anyone else who is experiencing it. Sucks to be you, dude.
Bail on me once, shame on me. Bail on me twice, I won't acknowledge your existence anymore. Its simple fucking respect, if you make an arrangement, follow through. We're people, not stupid social media endpoints.
Bailing is for losers and flakes. People should be responsible and never just g
Table-ized A.I.
In the comment I post an hour from now.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
How is this news? Addicts flaking out on folks is nothing new... and that's exactly what we're seeing here. You may not see it as that at first, but that's what it is.... folks are ADDICTED to their mobile devices, tv, and the internet... addicts aren't just pill poppin crack smokin junkies any more...
If you have friends that flake out a lot, it's not likely because they are busy, it's because they're addicts... perhaps it's time you had a talk with them.
Betteridge's law is one of those really stupid ideas that makes no sense. That explains why the users here keep trotting it out. Most readers on this site are pretty stupid. What if the headline read, "was Hitler wrong to exterminate the Jews?" Would you answer no to that? My god the people here are stupid, just like Betteridge. Anyone who invokes Betteridge's Law should automatically be modded down to -1.
Betteridge's Law is gay. Hope that helps.
is all these damn kids on my lawn.
I associate being a flake with selfishness and self centeredness. Yes the population has been moving that direction, and yes I avoid people like that. Even the flakes appreciate people who aren't flakes and hate each other.
"Bailing" is not a thing, personal responsibility and accountability are things. "Bailing" is a symptom. Computers have made us less accountable for our acts, and less responsible. The only aspect I would say is "new", is that these traits are promoted as good and righteous. Not by everyone, but have you ever "worked" in Silicon Valley? Have you ever attempted to debate UBI on this site?
In the Military we called it slacking, and if you are a slacker in one area you will be a slacker in another. Basic human nature and psychology.
Slackers have always been around. The only difference between today and 50 years ago is that slackers are being promoted as the new "norm".
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Yes means maybe. Maybe means no. No means "I don't like you."
"Are We Living In the Golden Age of Bailing?"
No, clearly we're Living In the Golden Age of Slashdot, represented by showers. Clearly someone's taken a piss all over the concept of Stuff that Matters.
I'd comment further, but I'm gonna bail instead...
I don't have to ever bail. I'm a teetotaler.
Does NY Times even report hard news anymore? Or is it all opinion articles now?
As for people changing plans at the last minute, nothing new there. NY Times is scraping below the barrel these days to fill their pages / site with fluff.
The writer has undiagnosed clinical depression and is blaming his shitty outlook on the world on technology. I'm genuinely impressed with how much loathing was packed into a short summary.
Flakes are hardly new. The writer is either young or stupid (and possibly both).
The difference between today and yesteryear is that now pretty much everyone is connected 24/7, so there's more pressure to actually communicate that you're going to be a no-show instead of simply not showing up.
If people prefer to spend their time watching crappy TV, rather than spending time with you, that just says that you're not very interesting.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do than hang around here
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
I think I've had maybe a 10% success rate getting people to show up to a social event on the weekend. I think we're all running pretty close to the limit in terms of how much energy a person has to do things each week.
I've never heard of someone planning to have drinks with someone Thursday on a Monday. Who makes casual plans like that?
love is just extroverted narcissism
It's sad how many of you think it's ok to say you will do something and then flake at the last minute.
It's not ok. It's rude and inconsiderate and it is the behavior of a piece of shit rather than a man.
A man's word means something. If you make a promise, you need to do what you said you'd do. If you can't be sure you will do something, then don't say you will do it. This is basic adult behavior.
Of course I realize that most of you who spend time on Slashdot have yet to reach the adult stage, but that doesn't negate the fundamental truth that a person ( man or woman ) of good quality keeps his word.
I do agree that generally David Brooks is a douche bag, but his douchebaggery doesn't mean all his claims are therefore erroneous, and only an idiot would attempt to take that position. Of course, many of you ARE idiots. Do the world a favor and don't breed.
it's called the Midas touch, everything affluent people touch turns to gold.
Then they starve to death from lack of appreciation.
Excessive affluence is corruption, all civilization eventually die from the greed and irresponsibility of the privileged.
Meh, nevermind.
/bail
Freedom to fear. Freedom from thought. Freedom to kill.
I guess the War on Terror really is about freedom!
Are We Living In the Golden Age of Bailing?
Growing up, I was repeatedly taught "there are no stupid questions, except for unasked ones".
Well... Slashdot just proved that old saw false. What the heck kind of stupid question is this, anyway?
#DeleteChrome
"What do you folks think?"
That if this is your problem then you don't have any real friends.
Seriously. Reevaluate your relationships with people if this is what they're doing to you.
Age of Planshopping and Flaking? Yes.
Golden? Wouldn't call it that.
Here's the deal: Social media and always on culture shorten attention spans to a minimum and cyberpunk culture disintegrates social ties we've had since the early age of man. Planshopping and bailing are a sideeffect of this. I dislike it a lot and try to sniff out and steer clear of people who indulge in this before wasting my time with them. Likewise I try my hardest to cherish the people who can treat me fair and with respect, keep an appointment and don't need to be fumbling on their smartphone every odd minute.
The way to deal with this is, of course, to slow electronic interaction to a more managable level. I get annoyed when I message with more than 3 people at a time and even that is too much. I only recieve something like 5 meaningful non-bot emails a week and write roughly 2 or 3. Which is exactly the amount I can handle and has been every since the mid-90ies when I started using e-mail.
I consider much of our allways-online social networking culture a mental illness epidemic and avoid it as much as I can. Treat me like a single-use friend and I will try my very best to avoid you like the plague and ignore you in the future. Although it really rubs me the wrong way to treat people like an asshole, even though they did it with me.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Well at least they aren't getting stood up .
Bailing is nothing new, and it has not increased.
Bailing is pure bullshit - I have never bailed on plans with a friend and never will. That is the definition of friendship. I might not want to go when the time arrives but guess what, I do, and am usually happy I did, because I feel good about keeping to my word and seeing a real friend is always good too.
Acquaintances on the other hand? Bail away... And here is a clue, people who bail on you are not your friends, they are acquaintances.
Did you ever wake up in the morning, with a Zombie Woof behind your eyes? -- FZ
I guess the problem is very simple. People "agree" (in fact get convinced and are to weak to say "no!") on something they are not committed to.
And the closer the date/time comes the more uncomfortable they get. And then shortly before the event: they bail out.
Has lots to do with how you spent your evenings (different countries do that completely different, e.g. I like Spain and Italy, of course also France).
I actually don't really like to meet "old school" in a restaurant/pub with a prescheduled date. I either go there and we meet by accident or we don't or we do it on short notice. Short notice means half a day max: "what are you doing this evening?" And then I can bail out right away: "Oh, I'm occupied!"
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
not to mention the decline of civilization, the collapse of morality and the ruination of all we hold dear
Sounds like a right-wing bible thumping piece right there wack job stuff right there. Sorry Trump loyalist, but the world is in fact not getting worse, we are in fact getting better day by day, even with set backs from the conservative front who want to strip away all freedoms and ruin humanity.
This isn't a new thing, all my life I've found some people bail often. We call them "flakes".
I don't bail unless it's for a really good reason (car trouble, or I can give plenty of lead time (24 hours).
What's wrong with planning stuff? I don't know about other folks but it sure as hell helps me get through tough/dreary times when I know I have something fun coming up.
People cancel yeah, it happens, and is understandable. This article talks of people I wouldn't keep around me very long though, and you know what they say, good friends are hard to find.
I tend to rant.
Betteridge's law is one of those really stupid ideas that makes no sense. That explains why the users here keep trotting it out. Most readers on this site are pretty stupid. What if the headline read, "was Hitler wrong to exterminate the Jews?" Would you answer no to that? My god the people here are stupid, just like Betteridge.
Actually it's a corollary of good writing practices, in the context of newspaper journalism.
Headlines need to be as short as possible, so if you're waisting letters on a question word it better be because your article explains why the answer is "no" as otehrwise any editor with half the title would have cut it down to the shorter declarative statement, or tossed the article in the trash if all it does is restate the headline in paragraph form.
For example:
"Will Earth Explode Tomorrow?"
"Earth to Explode Tomorrow"
It's way easier to just not have friends in the first place. Bam! No bailing or social obligations to worry about!
I was going to post my well reasoned response, but aliens just landed in my bubonic plague culture again. Gotta run.
not to mention the decline of civilization, the collapse of morality and the ruination of all we hold dear.
Those damn kids on their motorybikes and that blasted rock and roll music! I knew it would end badly! Next they'll be taking drugs and playing that evil Dungeons and Dragons!!!!
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
I find myself "bailing" on events I was high pressured into in person, often held semi-captive, but then divesting myself of it when I had freedom again. Often, for example, people assume that you do not like them if you do not agree to their request. That's rarely true. It's more convenient to agree to go, then not go. There are limits of course, if someone is spending money on the event or going out of their way I will be blunt (ex. weddings) but thats about it.
The only trend in society that may be destructive to in-person relationships is that there is *always* plenty to do. Meat-space meetings with friends are pretty confining and limited in scope, rarely with any expected gain. I also imagine there was a day when one might be so bored that one didn't bail, that even a dubious meeting might be preferable to sitting on your couch watching The Jeffersons. But that day is well in the rear-view.
In reality I do not want, nor do I ever seek social events of any kind, everything I want or need is in my house at my keyboard, with the exception of time. That I never have in the quantity I would like. If I accept such an invitation I'm almost certain to bail but felt like I had to accept due to some real or imagined pressure on me. I will never do the inviting, and if I do you can be sure I won't bail on YOU, that really is rude. I have had people arrange large get-togethers from diverse social groups who bail, leaving those groups confused and stuck with each other...that's just a dick move.
I have to flake, bail, whatever.
Eh, I'll have to pass. No comment.
#DeleteFacebook
I think I hate people. And for me that has been a constant since the days of land lines up until this moment.
I think the ambiguity of social relationships is a big problem. The girls I want to be serious with don't and the ones I don't ... do. Being a recluse is far more rewarding.
I blame Columbine.
I think these millennial bloggers need to speak for themselves. For this pathetic generation, making and breaking plans is absolutely nothing new, and is arguably one of their defining characteristics. The astonishing lack of commitment is also not confined to social obligations, but to work as well.
Other generations do not have this problem. We grownups make commitments and stick to them.
The last time I had plans, I ended up casting off a few "friends..."
Five of us made plans... at 5PM, to meet for dinner and drinks at 7PM.. in two hours. Knowing that most of my cohorts ran a little late, I showed up at 7:15... I was still the first one.. I got a table for five and sat down, ordered a drink.
Then the texts started coming in... one by one "$excuse" after "$excuse" which really just means "something more betterer just came up and Ima go do that instead, sosry!"
I ended up by myself at a table set for 5... moved to the bar and chatted with the bartender while I had some food and then went home. Haven't spoken to any of those fuckwits since.
But eh, it was behind a paywall, and, you see, I'm going to have to flake on reading paywalled content tonight.
Sorry, I was going to read TFS and TFA, but I flaked.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Surrender your phones before any social gathering and its obvious what the problem really is. No one knows how to act in a group anymore.
I thought bailing was what you did when you hit a rock that put a hole in the bottom of the canoe so that you didn't end up at the bottom of the lake.
And yes, in circumstances where bailing is required, everyone bails!
I think the hyperbole is strong with this one..
not to mention the decline of civilization, the collapse of morality and the ruination of all we hold dear.
Really? The ruination of all we hold dear? I didn't realize the whole of modern society was relying on me making it to a Thursday night party. Guess I better brush up on my beer pong!
Other than that, this seems like "No duh, but with internet!" Time and energy are scarce resources for most people, and we're not all taught how to manage them properly. Energy especially. You can find time management courses if you feel you need them but I've never heard of a course that teaches you how to manage your life such that the party you get invited to on Monday when you're well rested after the weekend still seems like a good idea when Friday night rolls around and you're exhausted. Never mind if you have a family and every excursion requires either hiring a babysitter or having to choose whether you or your spouse gets to go out tonight or whatever other dynamic you have to deal with.
No!, It's just a lot more obvious now.
I have a most convincing proof of his thesis. I'll post it tomorrow.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
...is that slashdot is officially dead, as there is no more news for nerds nor stuff that matters. I find it unbelievable that we now have "articles" that are nothing more than someone whining about no one wanting to hang out with them. I can't even call this fake news. SAD.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
I'm totally gonna comment on this article in a few minutes
...
...
oh sorry, can't get to it after all, cool? raincheck for sure thou...
They were inported in the US by Euro nazi SS people
If I keep inviting someone to meet up and they flake out repeatedly, I just stop asking them. I'm not worried about it--if they can't bring themselves to participate, then I suppose they're not that interested and I move on. I'd rather invite people who will actually show up, and the ones who don't are obviously happier doing whatever they do, possibly including vegging on their couch. Not my problem. It's a win-win, right?
You can read all the NYT articles you can absorb as long as a) you allow session cookies and b) disable scripts. HTH.
This is not "news for nerds" or "Stuff that matters". This is the kind of shit the homecoming king and queen worry about. If this had been about a bail on the X5000/40 it would have mattered!
No, and we don't even need Betteridge for this.
What we are in is the diamond encrusted platinum age of retarded news stories.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Cellist Mike Edwards died instantly when the 50-stone cylindrical bale careered down a slope, flipped 15ft over a hedge and smashed on to the roof of his van.
Holy shit! Hands down the best way to die I have seen in a very long time.
Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
Pubs can have smokers and alcohol, so that people with jobs, spouses, and/or children specifically avoid those establishments in order not to smell bad later that evening or the morning after. Your friends also avoided seeing you in the pub, because they wanted to see only you; they calculated, that there might be another of your friends there. Friends with spouses and children must also think how they keep their offspring busy, or if a spouse is at work when they have to look after the kids. Then there are chores, and the wife/husband/kids also want attention.
You can pretty much only be on a 100% "spontaneous" schedule if you're a teenager on summer break. Once you get adult responsibilities in your life, you realize you have to plan things.
I used to plan things when i was younger. But I'm in my 40's now, and I go out of my way to be more spontaneous now. It's been a real drag to speed a several days making phone calls to get four or five "friends" together.
Now I kick out an email and have my own BBQ whenever I feel like having one and I don't negotiate with anyone on the details. Show up, or don't. Glad to have you, not a big deal if you can't make it.
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/idgl7i/stand-up-barry-sobel--flaking
It's more convenient to agree to go, then not go. ..
and then
If I accept such an invitation I'm almost certain to bail but felt like I had to accept due to some real or imagined pressure on me.
Maybe it's more convenient for you, fuckwit, but your dishonesty fucks up the planning for everyone else.
When it's inconvenient for you to be honest about such routine matters, you've become a sociopath.
Don't be mistaken, though - your "friends" already know that you're unreliable as a human being - how do you feel about that?