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Umbrella-sharing Startup Loses Nearly All of Its 300,000 Umbrellas In a Matter of Weeks (shanghaiist.com)

Posted by msmash on from the saw-it-coming dept.

With bike-sharing companies like Mobike becoming incredibly successful in Chinese cities, a few startups have decided to mimic the concept with shareable umbrellas. The only problem: most of the umbrellas have gone missing, reports local media. From a report: Only a few weeks after starting up operations in 11 cities across China, Sharing E Umbrella announced that it had lost almost all of its 300,000 umbrellas. The Shenzhen-based company was launched with a 10 million yuan ($1.5 million) investment. The concept was similar to those that bike-sharing startups have used to (mostly) great success. Customers use an app on their smartphone to pay a 19 yuan deposit fee for an umbrella, which costs just 50 jiao for every half hour of use.

96 of 159 comments (clear)

  1. Well, collect on the deposits... by bobbied · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You don't lose anything if you keep the deposit... Just buy new ones.. Right?

    Seems like a great way to sell umbrellas to me... Here borrow this, but if you don't bring it back I'm going to charge you...

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    1. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Funny

      You don't lose anything if you keep the deposit... Just buy new ones.. Right

      TFA says the deposit is half the cost of the umbrella.

      Sounds like they need a flashing LED handle that says "Stolen" if the umbrella isn't returned on time, otherwise there's an incentive problem.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      According to the article, it costs 60 yuan to replace an umbrella, but the deposit is only 19 yuan. But no worries ;-) , they plan to make up for their losses in volume:

      but Zhao has not yet given up hope. He reportedly plans to release another 30 million umbrellas by the end of the year.

      On a related note, anyone know what 41 x 30,000,000 adds up to?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    3. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      You don't lose anything if you keep the deposit... Just buy new ones.. Right?

      Seems like a great way to sell umbrellas to me... Here borrow this, but if you don't bring it back I'm going to charge you...

      You hope the company was smart enough to charge a deposit. TFA doesn't say.

      It does say that they ordered 3million more umbrellas though, so either they like giving away cheap umbrellas, or they are charging a down payment and this isn't the disaster the article makes out.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    4. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Too complicated; just make the deposit twice the cost of the umbrella, and the incentive is gone.

    5. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Except the deposit is less than the replacement cost (19 yuan vs 60 yuan). So the indefinite half hour usage fee I guess would have to make up the difference. The internet says 1 yuan = 10 jiao, so I'm not sure if there is a typo and it should be 5 jiao per half hour or if you're paying 5 yuan (50 jiao) per half out. Worst case break even is after 2 days.

    6. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My father once worked at a convenience store (Circle K), where people would run out of gas and ask if they could borrow a 4 gallon gas can. At the time, this made sense - they didn't have a gas can, just walked a mile or two, and needed to get gas back to their car. ...
      Later, driving in a car with a) gas and b) a gas can, they would neglect to return it. ...
      In the days before debit/credit cards, my father's store had a "deposit" required (in cash) of $10 for the gas can. ZERO gas cans were ever returned. They also sold gas cans for $10.

    7. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by tripleevenfall · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Umbrellas are cheap and available anywhere, there's no problem with access or cost.

      The problem they're trying to solve is that people haven't carried an umbrella with them at the necessary moment.

      It would seem to me that rather than banking on people going out of their way to return a cheap item in order to receive a deposit back, less a significant fee, maybe they should be selling umbrellas an offering a small deposit return if the umbrella comes back, similar to soda cans and bottles in the 70s and 80s.

      The business model is upside down for low-value goods that people might well just keep instead of walking down the street to return.

    8. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      On the bright side when everyone has one or more umbrellas, no one will need an umbrella anymore and he'll stop losing money...

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    9. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What do you mean by "offering a small deposit return [...], similar to soda cans and bottles in the 70s and 80s."

      This is still true today.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    10. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      In the days before debit/credit cards, my father's store had a "deposit" required (in cash) of $10 for the gas can. ZERO gas cans were ever returned. They also sold gas cans for $10.

      Your father was a dumbass. He should have charged $12 deposit. A lot of people would have paid that thinking they'd get the money back. Later on they'd figure that it wasn't worth $2 to drive back and return it.

      Result? $10 can sold for $12.

      --
      No sig today...
    11. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Currently, the deposit is 19 yuan and replacing the umbrella cost 60. If you increase the deposit to 60, you may be pricing yourself out of the market. Many of the users are quite poor. And most of them probably don't have a credit card

      Yet they have the app on their cell phone.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    12. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      Way cold! So dude, I also get a bonus flashing LED that can be removed from my stolen umbrella? Score!

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    13. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      <Barney Stinson>Have you met Greed?</Barney Stinson>

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    14. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Depends where you live. Most states don't mandate a deposit.

      And bottle deposits go way back before the 70s.

    15. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      The deposit is twice the cost of the umbrella. It's about $3, which should cover the cost of a cheap umbrella at least four times over, considering they sell for $1 in shops even outside China.

      The problem is that umbrellas are too cheap. If they make the deposit any higher people won't use the service out of fear of losing it, but at the same time it's not enough to motivate them to return the item.

      Maybe they could be more like a library, with fines if you don't return it and no more books until you do.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    16. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Zocalo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, it sounds more like they need to figure out how to bill their customers for the *on-going rental* of their non-returned umbrellas. At 50 jiao (5 yuan) per half hour, they're going to be making a pretty good RoI given each umbrella only costs around 60 yuan - including the 19 yuan deposit you're in the black after about 8 hours of rental. They've got an app that makes the initial payment, so surely that includes such on-going billing, right?

      Oh, wait, "startup". Maybe not...

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    17. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      According to the article, it costs 60 yuan to replace an umbrella, but the deposit is only 19 yuan. But no worries ;-) , they plan to make up for their losses in volume:

      Google tells me that 60 yuan is $8.82. $8.82 for an umbrella, in China, when you are buying 300,000 of them? That seems to be a bit high. I'm sure I can get 300,000 umbrellas from Alibaba delivered to my home (whole neighbourhood covered by umbrellas :-) for a lot less than that.

      Just checked: Yes, I can get 1000 umbrellas to my home for less than 19 Yuan each.

    18. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The incentive to overpay for umbrellas while buying from your uncle?

      This was just a 'short con'. I bet _everybody_ who got paid out, kicked back to the operator. I also bet they haven't paid _any_ bills to anyone not kicking back.

      Rent, power, wages, all overdue. Bank in the red. Cops paid off and happy though. Investor is just 'fat of the land'.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    19. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Seems like a great way to sell umbrellas to me... Here borrow this, but if you don't bring it back I'm going to charge you...

      The bit that comes after the ... is "1/3rd of the price that it costs me to replace it".

    20. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The deposit is twice the cost of the umbrella. It's about $3, which should cover the cost of a cheap umbrella at least four times over, considering they sell for $1 in shops even outside China.

      Then there's no problem. Use the deposits to buy new umbrellas, and you've got yourself a nice little business selling overpriced umbrellas.

    21. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Don't know about the article but it was right in the summary: "Customers use an app on their smartphone to pay a 19 yuan deposit fee for an umbrella, which costs just 50 jiao for every half hour of use."

    22. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by stooo · · Score: 1

      Yeah.
      Except this is an umbrella with a GPS-GSM-Battery combo inside it, I suppose.
      Costs a little more.

      --
      aaaaaaa
    23. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The smart move would be to not mark a price on the gas cans, at all, and implement uber style 'surge pricing' when people actually needed one. I'd base it on the estimated cost of the customer's shoes...

      On the other hand, only 'out of gas' will be buying a gas can at the convenience store. Just mark them $30-$50, depending on neighborhood, no returns if used, 'it's a hazard'.

      Similarly, I'd charge someone in a very nice suit more for an umbrella if it was raining.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    24. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Wycliffe · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem is that umbrellas are too cheap. If they make the deposit any higher people won't use the service out of fear of losing it, but at the same time it's not enough to motivate them to return the item.

      This hasn't stopped Redbox in the USA. Redbox doesn't even charge a deposit but they will continue to charge you for 30 days if you don't return it. After that, it's yours.

    25. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I assume much of the cost is getting the umbrella to the rental device.

      even so, it seems high, considering they placed the initial 300,000 for 10 million, and they also used that money to develop and place the infrastructure,

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    26. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by fisted · · Score: 1

      Same in Germany, they used to give you a can for a small deposit, didn't get them back and stopped doing it altogether now. One time I ran out of gas, I ended up leaving my entire wallet there to make them believe me that I will actually return the can. Another time they didn't even accept that, so I ended up buying a 2,5L bottle of water, emptied it outside and filled it up with gas. And then they had the nerves to tell me I can't actually do that (fortunately after it was too late). Geez.

      Now why I'm telling you this, I have no idea.

      --
      CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
    27. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      That's kind.

      Gas cans are way over priced at any gas station I've been to. Something about, you just walked two miles here, and you don't want to walk ten more to somewhere else.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    28. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      That's $2.79. Looking on Alibaba that's in the cheap range for an umbrella in China.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    29. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      How much is 30 days rental? I'm guessing it's more than $2.75, which is what these guys are charging.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    30. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      To be fair many of them don't have credit cards. My fiance's sister gets paid in cash and doesn't even have a bank account, but she has a mobile phone and can make payments by buying credit for her QQ account in shops and then spending it in apps. Kinda like those Play Store / App Store gift cards you can buy.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    31. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Or, just buy an umbrella instead of renting one. Problem solved.

    32. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      You either know your plastics, or got lucky. Gasoline melts through a lot of plastics.

      You can make neat plastic sculptures that way. Dissolve the right plastic in gasoline, sculpt it into things, let the gas evaporate out.

    33. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you want more than market value, yes.

      Aluminum is highly recyclable and the process for refining it it expensive, so it has some value, but it's still low enough that people consider the individual value of a can to be inconsequential.

      Glass is even LESS desirable. The most common way to recycle it? Crush it up, and put it somewhere you can, in theory, sell it to someone else. Eventually. And it is burdensome to deal with, even more so than plastic and metal.

         

    34. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Last_Available_Usern · · Score: 1

      More complicated but in a service like this you have to replace the "product" every so often anyway. Far better to let the lazy folks pay for them with their deposits instead of replacing them with your own capital. Further, every umbrella in service (even if it's kept) is free advertising for your company.

    35. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by trg83 · · Score: 1

      Last I checked, it was just over a penny per can at most recyclers, so yeah, I can understand why someone wouldn't go out of their way and use up valuable time to save a penny. As a percentage of the cost of a can with its contents, I think its inconsequential to nearly everyone.

      The only way recycling cans for money makes sense is if you are able to get someone else's cans in bulk for free.

      I still recycle my cans for the nebulous idea of not creating waste, but there's not a good economic incentive presently to do so.

    36. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by trg83 · · Score: 2

      If you've run out of gas more than once and were unprepared to deal with it again, you really should run for political office. Seems such forward-thinking individuals are in high demand.

    37. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Only if more people keep subscribing to your business than you lose umbrellas. Has the hallmarks of a Ponzi scheme.

    38. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by wvmarle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      More likely this is not an issue of people not returning an umbrella they rented, but people taking an umbrella without renting it.

    39. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      I'd bet that it's not so much explicit theft, but go to someone's house and you may find a closet full of unreturned umbrellas.

      A bicycle is something that's easier to leave at the rack when you get to your destination. An umbrella is something you'll typically take all the way to the door. And you might expect to take with you when you leave, but oh, you forgot - it's stopped raining. Kind of like with ball-point pens, only more cumbersome.

      Possibly the best solution is to simply make disposable umbrellas. Although Redbox had a good idea on DVD's. Fees accumulate up to a fixed point and after that, no need to return the DVD - it's yours now.

    40. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Don't they have bums where you live.

      Can deposits make me feel all warm inside, every time I litter.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    41. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by mspohr · · Score: 2

      They really should just call it an "umbrella store". Have a "deposit" which is enough to cover the cost of the umbrella. If they return it, no problem. If they keep it, just replace it from the deposit.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    42. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      Not really, because you get your deposits up front. You give somebody an umbrella only after they give you enough money to replace it. You give them the deposit back only after they give you the umbrella back, but even in that case you keep the rental fee. Unlike a Ponzi scheme, you don't have any unacknowledged obligations piling up that you can't cover. Now, if you can't get people to rent your umbrellas, you have a problem, just like any business that can't sell its products has a problem. But people keeping umbrellas isn't a problem.

    43. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by trg83 · · Score: 1

      Bums: yes. Can deposits: no.

    44. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Everybody assumes that these umbrellas disappear while "on rent". I think it's quite safe to assume they disappear while "off rent", as otherwise there wouldn't be an issue with losing umbrellas as they would know who had the missing umbrella in their possession.

    45. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      I drink lots of canned beverages, so its worth it to me to save them.

    46. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      You paid then too. Just didn't break it out into its own column. Believe me, our family was well aware there was technically a deposit. People around here used the term frequently.

    47. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      also the that $10 may of been cash only and nerve got ringed up so they did not have to do any thing with sales tax.

    48. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Beer/soda can can be cut in some simple way and used as a small burner for alcohol fuel.
      This should make feel warm?

      In my western european country I can recycle them by throwing into a special street trash can for non-glass recyclable shit but there's nothing to be earned.
      Beers in glass bottles are a strange affair : you throw them in the glass with everything else. No deposits. Except for Belgian beers, which have a 10c deposit! and that works in a few dedicated beer shops at least. (the other thing that's known is coke bottles, but only bar/restaurant staff deals with that)

    49. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      Yeah, shipping it to your house in (I'm assuming) the US is one thing, but this guy had to have them shipped to China!

      </s>

    50. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      otherwise there wouldn't be an issue with losing umbrellas as they would know who had the missing umbrella in their possession.

      Good luck with chasing 300,000 particular people in China, even assuming they all gave their names, addresses, phone numbers, social security numbers etc just to hire an umbrella.

    51. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Maybe his father:
      (1) didn't want to deal with selling a "used" gas can as new if people did return them (potential legality issues, on a practical level have to clean the can pretty well for it not smell used)

      He should have kept a couple of cans just for lending. I once worked at an all-night filling station, and that's what we did.

      (2) didn't want to deal with customers complaining that "a new can only costs $10"

      Then tell them to buy one.

    52. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      You don't have to. Just charge the credit card provided with their registration (the same card used to charge the deposit and rental fees).

    53. Re: Well, collect on the deposits... by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      C'mon Newman, we have money to be made!

    54. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      "everything on the street can now be shared."

      Definitely true. So far I've shared with other people two bicycles (bolt cutters), the contents of my wallet (twice), my mobile phone (grab-and-run), and numerous umbrellas (those were mostly my fault).

      Sheesh, what did they think would happen with an umbrella-sharing service?

    55. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by rpstrong · · Score: 1

      Cheap umbrellas are not likely to survive in the rental market. According to the article, each umbrella cost 60 yuan to replace - three times the deposit.

    56. Re: Well, collect on the deposits... by endercase · · Score: 1

      How many hours do they charge them for before they consider the umbrella "lost"?

    57. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by rpstrong · · Score: 1

      The nature of a deposit is that it is compensation to cover loss of or damage to the product. Knowing who rented the bumbershoot is immaterial - keeping their deposit is your only recourse.

    58. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      But is it deposit payers that kept the umbrellas? Or other passers-by that just picked one up (mind: no fixed deposit locations, hang them at any convenient roadside railing)?

    59. Re:Well, collect on the deposits... by the_skywise · · Score: 1

      You Dumbass - then they'd just BUY the can for $10.

  2. Short-term Rentals by Luthair · · Score: 1

    The company owns them, it charges a fee for you to take it for a period of time. This is called renting.

  3. Brilliant marketing to sell umbrellas by peterofoz · · Score: 1

    Did they make money by selling them at 17 yuan (about $2.79). Made in China - good chance they did.

    1. Re:Brilliant marketing to sell umbrellas by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      They claim it costs 60 yuan ($US 8.82) to acquire an Umbrella, in China. You can get a 'Rolex' for that kind of money.

      They are a bunch of big fat liars, they are buying the Umbrellas from a relative's company, the investor is a chump. This was a 'short con'.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:Brilliant marketing to sell umbrellas by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Your chances of turning this into a successful business get lower as your motivation to read TFA article increases.

      If you ever get to that point you'll find out they made a 41yuan loss on every stolen umbrella.

    3. Re:Brilliant marketing to sell umbrellas by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      60 yuan is retail? Cite please...that sure isn't what I see on Alibaba...unless you include shipping, single units to the USA.

      But assuming you're not 'full of shit', that proves these clowns are thieves, nobody pays anywhere close to retail when you buy 300,000.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re:Brilliant marketing to sell umbrellas by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      https://www.alibaba.com/trade/...

      $1/piece in units of 1000.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  4. Yuan and jiao by bmomjian · · Score: 5, Informative

    I guess everyone else knows how to convert yuan and jiao , but I didn't. Ten jiao equals one yuan, so 50 jiao equals 5 yuan. The story probably would have made more sense in uniform currency units. The idea is that if you had the umbrella for less than four hours, it was worth returning it.

    1. Re:Yuan and jiao by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      The TFA is trying to be smart by converting to jiao. The original post from South China Morning Post in TFA stated the difference.

      In principle, the scheme works by members of the public borrowing umbrellas – from stands located mostly at subway and bus stations – for a deposit of 19 yuan and a fee of 0.50 yuan for every 30 minutes, it said."

      Is it 10 jiao is equal to 1 yuan or 100 jiao is equal to 1 yuan?

    2. Re:Yuan and jiao by bmomjian · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia says, "One jiao is equal to one-tenth of a yuan or ten fn ()."

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    3. Re:Yuan and jiao by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And that is why the system failed.

      a) Something that becomes essentially free if I have it for 3 hours is not worth the effort of returning.
      b) What if it rains after I return it. A crappy day is often a crappy day, chances are I'll need the umbrella again.
      c) Oh look I thought about it too long so it's not worth returning anymore.

    4. Re:Yuan and jiao by repka · · Score: 1

      Can I stay ignorant and just get umbrella deposit -to- USD conversion ratio? Bonus points if you google what is jiao for me.

  5. Not a terrible idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    But they need to tweak it. Customers buy the umbrellas on the street using their credit card. Then they can return the umbrellas to some depot (possibly unstaffed?) and get most of the charge refunded.

    1. Re:Not a terrible idea by fabriciom · · Score: 2

      At least the validated that people want the umbrellas.

  6. Funny quote from the article by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    The SCMP reports that Zhao concluded that the safest place for an umbrella would be at the customer's home, where it would be safe and undamaged.

    Yeah, apparently the customers agreed.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  7. The moral of the story is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...share only things which are too big to steal effectively.

  8. China infested with 300,000 GHOST UMBRELLAS by Thud457 · · Score: 1
    Wikipedia also sez:

    old abandoned umbrellas turn into ghosts

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:China infested with 300,000 GHOST UMBRELLAS by AntronArgaiv · · Score: 2

      Wikipedia also sez:

      old abandoned umbrellas turn into ghosts

      ...and then hide behind your dryer with the single socks to haunt you.

  9. Well... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    At least they didn't name themselves Umbrella Corps.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:Well... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      It would have been a lot more interesting had they called themselves the Umbrella Movement, especially if they would be selling yellow umbrellas (honestly I'm not sure if it's nowadays OK again to walk around the mainland with a yellow umbrella).

  10. oh, NOW you've gone and done it! by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    Hopefully their umbrella policy from Traveller's Insurance will cover their losses.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  11. Isn't that a problem of supply and demand by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I mean, umbrellas are one of those things where EVERYONE in a certain area needs one or NOBODY needs one. It's not like bikes where I want to go now and you want to go later.

    Or, in other words, it's a bit like those time-sharing deals where, oddly, everyone wanted the house during the Summer months and nobody took care of it in Winter.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Isn't that a problem of supply and demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Whoever figures out how to position a cottage in walking distance of a beach and a ski-slope will make crazy money though.

    2. Re:Isn't that a problem of supply and demand by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      In Dubay, they call that a cottage.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Re:do they make creimer-sized umbrellas? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    The umbrella I got is the StormProof "Unbreakable" Travel Umbrella. The vendor had a two-for-one promotion and Amazon offered two-day free shipping when I ordered last winter. (The current promotion is ten umbrellas for the price of seven with two-day free shipping, which is mind boggling as these umbrellas are quite sturdy.) I keep one umbrella in my backpack, the other umbrella in the closet.

  13. Re:do they make creimer-sized umbrellas? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    You do realize this won't stop if you keep replying to whoever keeps (successfully) trolling you, right?

    Trolling? What trolling? This is a discussion that is worth every half-cent. ;)

  14. Math failure! by cyn1c77 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All you need to know are two clauses from the article:

    1. "Customers ... pay a 19 yuan deposit fee for an umbrella"

    2. "Each lost umbrella costs the company 60 yuan to replace"

    I think we can safely conclude that the business owner had a good idea, but needed to take just one more economics course.

    1. Re:Math failure! by green1 · · Score: 1

      Exactly this. People keep talking about how it was a horrible business idea, but it doesn't sound like that to me.

      It sounds like it was a good idea, but that they didn't get the pricing model right. Now there may be cases where umbrellas are damaged or stolen that you don't have control over, but most of the time the person who stole the umbrella is the person who you rented it to. In those cases it should be easy enough to make your money back, you just need to price it right. If you're charging a deposit anyway, the deposit should cover all costs associated with replacing missing/damaged property. Including purchasing a new one, and getting it in to circulation at the appropriate stand. If not charging a deposit, then you need to make sure that the rental continues to get charged until either you've made back the cost of the umbrella, or it's returned.

      As a general rule, the cheaper the item you're renting, the higher the deposit needs to be as a percentage of the cost of the item. (cheaper items tend to go missing with no re-course, expensive items tend to be worth a police investigation, so you're more worried about repairing damage than replacing the whole item) This is also why most cheap items aren't rented, at a certain point it's easier to just sell them. (ever try to rent/borrow a gas can from a gas station? they usually only sell them, not rent them)

      There seems to be this impression that if your business idea involves "the internet" or "on a computer" etc, that it's somehow immune to the laws of economics. It's not.

  15. Actually by jon3k · · Score: 1

    Sounds like they just "pivoted" from the Umbrella rental business to the umbrella selling business. They got deposits.

  16. bike sharing startups ... a success? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

    Most bike sharing programs or companies in Europe or the US are publicly funded or publicly subsidized. I'm not aware of any that have made a substantial profit. In China, they have attracted lots of investments, but the financials are at best unclear. So, care to give examples of "successful bike sharing startups"?

    1. Re:bike sharing startups ... a success? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I knew I guy in High School who made a few bucks 'sharing' other people's bikes/car radios. But after his 'state sponsored vacation' the hourly was terrible.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:bike sharing startups ... a success? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1
      From TFA:

      Umbrella renting schemes aren't the only sharing businesses suffering from problems with theft in China. Last month, shared-bike startup Wukong Bicycles went out of business in Chongqing after nearly all of its bikes were stolen following just six months of operation. Shortly afterward, Beijing-based 3Vbike followed suit.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    3. Re:bike sharing startups ... a success? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      Velo in Antwerp is government subsidized, the parent is saying it's not a successful business if it can't stand on its own.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    4. Re:bike sharing startups ... a success? by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      From TFA:

      "With bike-sharing companies like Mobike becoming incredibly successful"

      But they don't seem to be making any profit right now.

  17. Re:do they make creimer-sized umbrellas? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Can you tell us more about the backpack?

    My backpack is the Kensington Contour Computer Backpack. I got mine for free from Google when I worked there in 2007. After ten years of daily use, I'm ready to replace it with another one.

  18. Re:do they make creimer-sized umbrellas? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    I'm Creimer. I'm replying to myself in order to drum up interest in my humdrum posts.

    I don't post AC. I also don't need to "drum up interest" for my comments. I got enough trolls doing that on my behalf. :P

  19. Re:do they make creimer-sized umbrellas? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Does it look like this after ten years of daily use?

    The side that lays against your back is perfect after ten years. The other side had faded from black to olive green from the sun and the bottom edges are flaying out. I don't think the bottom will give out completely but you don't want find out with a $2K work laptop.